Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel the Vampire

[Marvolo]

Lol you know youve got that special somethin when you and your partner tear down the whole damn house having sex. Its bout time Buffy gave up the denial and hooked up with Spike.

 

[flickchick85]

Lol you know youve got that special somethin when you and your partner tear down the whole damn house having sex. Its bout time Buffy gave up the denial and hooked up with Spike.

See I just found that whole storyline damned depressing.

 

[Sawyer]

Season 6 as a whole was a big bowl of depression, across the board. Season 6 was the Great Depression.

 

[Marvolo]

See I just found that whole storyline damned depressing.

For me its depressing how Spikes being treated. I know what he is and who he is, but he's done quite a bit for Buffy. People change. Yeah he has a chip but drew said it herself that Spikes feelings for Buffy predate the chip. He's not as classy as Angel was, but Buffy just treats him like a piece of trash. Spike deserves better. And I get tired of her acting like the chip is not the same as Angel having a soul. Ones mystical and ones technology but they both have a similar function. You take Angels soul away and he goes on a rampage and torments Buffy. If Spike lost his chip he would feed again but I don't think he could hurt Buffy. That should earn him some points.

Idk maybe I'm delusional, but I'm tired of seeing the guy getting shredded by her over and over. In my own way I can relate to that treatment and what it feels like to be in a position like that.

 

[flickchick85]

For me its depressing how Spikes being treated. I know what he is and who he is, but he's done quite a bit for Buffy. People change. Yeah he has a chip but drew said it herself that Spikes feelings for Buffy predate the chip. He's not as classy as Angel was, but Buffy just treats him like a piece of trash. Spike deserves better. And I get tired of her acting like the chip is not the same as Angel having a soul. Ones mystical and ones technology but they both have a similar function. You take Angels soul away and he goes on a rampage and torments Buffy. If Spike lost his chip he would feed again but I don't think he could hurt Buffy. That should earn him some points.

I'll be curious to hear your thoughts on this at the end of the season.

As for my own thoughts on s6 Spike, I think there's a big difference between a soul and a "chip." And I believe the soul is what makes the difference between love and infatuation/obsession. If I were Buffy, I don't think I could ever even trust a creature without a soul who thought he was in love with me, because I'd always assume he was treating me well only because he was infatuated. If that infatuation ever ran its course due to rejection or disinterest, I would think the ugliness/demon would be bound to come out. That said, Buffy is treating Spike horribly in s6, and I do of course feel bad for him because James Marsters always made Spike so damn likable even when he was at his most evil, but it's the emptiness behind her behavior that I find so depressing. She really does just seem like a shell of Buffy rather than the real thing. I think SMG did a really good job conveying that quality in s6...maybe too good a job.

 

[Marvolo]

My god season 6 is one depressing thing after another. Poor Xander and Anya. And I agree about Buffy being a shell of her former self. Its not just her tho. Everyone feels like a shadow of their former selves. I don't think I've ever watched a show with this much depressing crap crammed into one season.

 

[Havok83]

For me its depressing how Spikes being treated. I know what he is and who he is, but he's done quite a bit for Buffy. People change. Yeah he has a chip but drew said it herself that Spikes feelings for Buffy predate the chip. He's not as classy as Angel was, but Buffy just treats him like a piece of trash. Spike deserves better. And I get tired of her acting like the chip is not the same as Angel having a soul. Ones mystical and ones technology but they both have a similar function. You take Angels soul away and he goes on a rampage and torments Buffy. If Spike lost his chip he would feed again but I don't think he could hurt Buffy. That should earn him some points.

Idk maybe I'm delusional, but I'm tired of seeing the guy getting shredded by her over and over. In my own way I can relate to that treatment and what it feels like to be in a position like that.

well there IS a difference between a soul and a chip.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Isn't the depressing stuff all just a logical progression of the show?

I mean, you can start out fairly light hearted, but as the tragedies continue to unfold, six seasons later their bound to have all gone bat **** crazy and developed a lot of depression.

 

[Havok83]

Isn't the depressing stuff all just a logical progression of the show?

I mean, you can start out fairly light hearted, but as the tragedies continue to unfold, six seasons later their bound to have all gone bat **** crazy and developed a lot of depression.

exactly and thats why it made sense. I like that Whedon took things to a dark place even though I didnt like what was happening to the characters

 

[Marvolo]

well there IS a difference between a soul and a chip.

That's a philosophical debate for another place and time. But in the show when it comes to vampires the reason they do what they do is the demon replaces their soul. You put the soul back in and you get a guilt ridden vampire who wont feed on humans and goes all good. They lose the soul the demon takes back over and they go back to the murdering any human around that they aren't exploiting.

In Spikes case the demon is still there it is only inhibited by the chip. The demon itself is learning to care and think consciously for those it cares for even if it is a selfish care. You take the chip away its still the same demon.

I know when this show started it was very black and white regarding demons and vampires but they aren't all bad and in Spikes case that chip does act as a soul. Because he is forced to not feed on humans it allows him to view those around him as more than food so he develops higher emotions regarding them. Angel's soul creates guilt which stops him from feeding and Spikes chip creates pain which stops him from feeding on humans. Pain=Guilt and Soul=Chip. At least in the show it does. In real life I would never make that comparison but in Buffyverse and with Spike and Angel it is a fair comparison. At least I feel it is. I understand if we aren't on the same wavelength here. People rarely are with these particular types of topics and that is perfectly cool.

EDIT: I'm reeling from Spike nearly raping Buffy so...uh I'm not sure what I feel right now. There's a definite feeling of gross and revulsion. Jesus Im gonna stop guessing about this season cause this **** gets more and more ****ed up.

Isn't the depressing stuff all just a logical progression of the show?

I mean, you can start out fairly light hearted, but as the tragedies continue to unfold, six seasons later their bound to have all gone bat **** crazy and developed a lot of depression.

Yeah it is very logical, and I can't help but marvel at Whedon's ability to put his characters through absolute hell. Its definitely the least enjoyable season for me but its not due to lack of quality. Its just damn depressing but that is the natural progression that needed to happen. You know all the previous seasons had a central baddie but this seasons "baddie" is the psychological effects of the past 6 years moreso than the evil trio.

 

[O'Haire]

I really didn't care for season 6 other than Once More, with Feeling and the last 3 episodes.

7 wasn't much better either. Way too many annoying characters. Made it a chore to sit through.

Kind of wish the show ended at season 5.

 

[Havok83]

7 is my third favorite season after 3 and 5. I thought it was really good, especially the Buffy/Spike relationship which for once finally wasnt feeling as unhealthy as it was in the past. I thought the First made for an interesting Big Bad and SMG played the role great

 

[flickchick85]

I really liked S7, actually. I preferred seasons 5, 3 & 2, but I liked S7 on the whole more than 4, 6 & 1, so I guess it's right in the middle for me.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

I rank them...

1. s5
2. s3
3. s2
4. s4
5. s7
6. s6
7. s1

 

[hopefuldreamer]

exactly and thats why it made sense. I like that Whedon took things to a dark place even though I didnt like what was happening to the characters

Same

And for someone who was going through some dark depression a few years ago because of all the crazy stuff that was going on in my group of friends, I really related to [BLACKOUT]Buffy's feeling of numbness and feeling life is pointless. I could see so much of my friends troubles in Willow's troubles with addiction, having a loved one back away for their own safety, and eventually succombing to the temptations of it completely. I completely related to Xander eventually bringing her back from the brink, to Giles' feelings that he has to stop stepping in and rescuing situations and instead let people pull themselves together. [/BLACKOUT]

It'll always be one of the best seasons to me because of that. It helped me through a lot

 

[Marvolo]

Ok, just finished season 6. That was definitely my favorite finale. Was not expecting what happened to Spike, and when Xander brought Willow back from the brink I was all . I mean the emotion in those last two episodes was. And Giles was awesome as per usual.t:

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Ok, just finished season 6. That was definitely my favorite finale. Was not expecting what happened to Spike, and when Xander brought Willow back from the brink I was all . I mean the emotion in those last two episodes was. And Giles was awesome as per usual.t:

Yup

Kind of makes all the build up of pain and sadness throughout the season worth it, doesn't it?

 

[Havok83]

Ok, just finished season 6. That was definitely my favorite finale. Was not expecting what happened to Spike, and when Xander brought Willow back from the brink I was all . I mean the emotion in those last two episodes was. And Giles was awesome as per usual.t:

It should be interesting to see your take on the whole soul vs chip debate now bc Spike IS different once he gets his soul back. There's a noticeable difference which allows Buffy to view him in a different way, one in which makes their relationship alot more healthy and not the depressing tainted mess it was in season 6. Its not as simple as a chip being in place to stop him from killing. Its deeper than that and Spike as a character genuinely changes and becomes a person, not merely a monster thats held in check. Its the soul that did that and its something a chip never could

"Bored now" Im still convinced thats one of the most memorable quotes in the entire series

 

[hopefuldreamer]

You know what one of the best things about the ending with Xander and Willow is?

[BLACKOUT]Giles trusted him to do it. He banked the entire world's survival on whether or not Xander Harris would be willing to risk his life for his best friend. Really showed how much respect he'd earned from Giles over the years [/BLACKOUT]

 

[Marvolo]

Yup

Kind of makes all the build up of pain and sadness throughout the season worth it, doesn't it?

It certainly does.

It should be interesting to see your take on the whole soul vs chip debate now bc Spike IS different once he gets his soul back. There's a noticeable difference which allows Buffy to view him in a different way, one in which makes their relationship alot more healthy and not the depressing tainted mess it was in season 6. Its not as simple as a chip being in place to stop him from killing. Its deeper than that and Spike as a character genuinely changes and becomes a person, not merely a monster thats held in check.

"Bored now" Im still convinced thats one of the most memorable quotes in the entire series

I'm sure I'll be reevaluating him and adjusting my feelings about him accordingly. I agree about the relationship in season 6. At first, I was like "Come on, Buffy, hook up with Spike!" but then as it went on just became this sick distorted twisted thing that I couldn't stand to watch. She was using him, and he was letting her, and in his on way he was using her. It was sooo destructive and unhealthy. And the attempted rape scene was so very disturbing. Spike methodically telling her how he would make her "see and understand", and Buffy struggling was just uncomfortable. I think that is most scared I've felt for Buffy through the whole series, cause both actors played that so well, and Gellar just blew it out of the park in that scene. I never sided with Xander's attitude towards Spike til then. When Xander walked in the bathroom, and saw that I put myself in his place, and I can imagine how he felt. I would have killed Spike that night, and I wanted Xander to do it unbelievably bad. Joss Whedon you are the god of character shows!

 

[flickchick85]

Joss Whedon you are the god of character shows!

Oh yes, you're gonna love Angel. t:

And I had the exact same feeling on Buffy/Spike as that season went on. That unsettling/depressing feeling is why, as good as S6 is, I have the hardest time re-watching it (aside from "Once More With Feeling" and "Tabula Rasa") compared to the other seasons. Speaking of "Tabula Rasa," did you notice the Spike/Giles dynamic in that episode was totally foreshadowed in "Restless"? Spike was even wearing the stupid tweed suit in the dream.

 

[Marvolo]

Spike's emotional breakdown in the church was . He is definitely different now that he has his soul.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I always enjoy reading BuffyVirgin fans thoughts. How I wish I could be that again.

I like Season 7 but I always feel like there were a lot of missed oppourtinities.

 

[flickchick85]

I always enjoy reading BuffyVirgin fans thoughts. How I wish I could be that again.

Heh, I've been doing exactly that lately with this site:

http://markwatches.net/reviews/

That guy watches entire runs of past TV shows non-stop and posts a review/reaction of each episode every day. He's already done BSG and Firefly/Serenity, and he's currently on the latter half of Buffy S3. Somehow, he's managed to remain almost entirely unspoiled, and people aren't allowed to post spoilers in the comments. He didn't even know Angel was a vampire (though he did know that he had his own show). That's actually what inspired me to do my great Whedonverse re-watch before Avengers, just because all his reactions were making me want to re-live it myself, lol. It's been fun reading his transition from "Well this is kind of cute and campy" to "OMG THIS SHOW IS AMAZING." t:

 

[Sawyer]

I always enjoy reading BuffyVirgin fans thoughts. How I wish I could be that again.

I like Season 7 but I always feel like there were a lot of missed oppourtinities.

Me too. I still love it, but watching it fresh was something else.