First Avenger Cap's Power Level

[Infinity9999x]

The one thing to remember about the whole "throwing cars" argument is this:

Normal humans have been shown to be able to lift up large cars, and even flip entire cars over. We all know of the "granny who lifted up a truck to save her grandson" example, but the truth is, that stuff actually happens. When your adrenaline spikes that much, the human body can do amazing things.

So, in a ful-out battle, would it really be that far fetched for someone who is supposed to be the pinnacle of human perfection in every area of his physical body be able to throw a car?

And if not throw, I would at least have him be able to press it up and flip it over fairly easily, since there are actual strongmen alive today who can do stuff like that.

 

[Spider-Fan]

This might be true, but just cause Cap may be able to throw a car doesn't mean he should in the film. Cap was always more of a hand to hand guy, with the added element of finese with his shield. He was never a lift heavy object and toss it like a baseball hero. It is not his style. I think the film needs to stay true to the style Cap has used in fighting in the comic. Don't just have him throw a car cause it would look cool. That is not the kind of thinking I want the guys in the room to have.

I say stay true to Cap's style.

 

[Timstuff]

What if someone was pinned though, and he had to lift the car off of him and there was a bad guy right behind him? The most logical thing to do would be to pick up the car and throw it at the bad guy!

 

[Spider-Fan]

Curse you and your logical scenario

If anything like that happens in the movie, I'd be fine with it. But, if it is a loud sequence and he tosses a car just to make a cool moment, I'll cry foul.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Curse you and your logical scenario

If anything like that happens in the movie, I'd be fine with it. But, if it is a loud sequence and he tosses a car just to make a cool moment, I'll cry foul.

I agree with that. I don't want to see Cap tossing cars around like it's a piece of cake. He's not the Hulk. If Cap ever does end up displaying a feat of strength like tossing a car, it should be a BIG moment, and be obviously hard for him to do.

I wouldn't want it to happen more then once, that way it's a better moment. It's like "CRAP he just picked up a car!" Instead of "oh yeah, he tossed a car again."

And I would want it to be in a desperate situation as well, like in the scenario described above, where Cap needed to get it off someone, and a baddie was right behind him. Or maybe Cap's going up against a heavy hitter, and he does something desperate to give himself a little breathing time, so he digs down and uses that energy to throw the car at the baddie.

Because when you think about it, even at Ult. Cap strength levels, tossing a car isn't going to be something he's going to be able to do without a fair amount of strain. He would naturally want to conserve his strength, so he would only do it in a desperate situation.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I agree with that. I don't want to see Cap tossing cars around like it's a piece of cake. He's not the Hulk. If Cap ever does end up displaying a feat of strength like tossing a car, it should be a BIG moment, and be obviously hard for him to do.

I wouldn't want it to happen more then once, that way it's a better moment. It's like "CRAP he just picked up a car!" Instead of "oh yeah, he tossed a car again."

And I would want it to be in a desperate situation as well, like in the scenario described above, where Cap needed to get it off someone, and a baddie was right behind him. Or maybe Cap's going up against a heavy hitter, and he does something desperate to give himself a little breathing time, so he digs down and uses that energy to throw the car at the baddie.

Because when you think about it, even at Ult. Cap strength levels, tossing a car isn't going to be something he's going to be able to do without a fair amount of strain. He would naturally want to conserve his strength, so he would only do it in a desperate situation.

We're in complete agreement here

Tossing a car would take a lot out of Cap, so if he does it, I'd want it to be in a big moment and be something we can see takes a lot out of him. That would both display Cap's physical ability and keep the feel of the film consistant. I just don't want this film to get caught up in what Cap can do and show off just to show off at the expense of the story. But, if it fits the moment, by all means do it.

 

[Timstuff]

I agree that throwing a car should be shown as an extraordinary feat for Cap and not something he would have done under normal conditions. It should be like "WHOA! He just THREW A FREAKING CAR!", and that should be the audience's hint as to what the extent of his strength is. If he exerts himself, he can throw a car. I think that would be better than the audience just constantly wondering "OK, so he's supposed to be really strong, but how strong? What's the most incredible feat of strength he can pull off?"

 

[afan]

As far as strength goes I equate Captain America's level to Bane's level on Venom. Of course Cap's serum enhances more than just his strength making Captain America much more power-"full".

 

[not_a_victim]

And something to keep in mind...
TIH prepped us for a Cap that is physically no bigger than an average man. Blonsky didn't gain any muscle mass when he was injected with the SSS. When I saw that in TIH, my first reaction was, "They are doing this so Matt Damon can be Cap!"

 

[Turtles]

First off, let me just say that there is nobody in real life, that I know of, who can actually lift a car. I know about the stories you hear, and about what you see on those strongman competitions and such, but let me just point out that those people never lift the entire car off the ground at any time. They lift half the car off the ground, at most, so they're only carrying half the weight. If you don't believe me go out, find something big and heavy, try to lift up just the edge of it, then try to lift up the entire thing--see for yourself which is easier.

I'd actually be okay with Cap being able to pull a car away from the ground to free a trapped person, but I'm still against him throwing a car, because throwing is a whole different thing than lifting.

And, as to the argument that Cap won't be cool enough without a power boost, well, let me just draw your attention to something........

Yeah, him. I'm bringing him up because we all know what they did to him in the Wolvering movie. Well, why do you think the guys at Fox did that? They probably did that because they thought that Deadpool was lame without added powers.

How many guys do you think there were at Fox saying "Hmmm, a guy with a sword, and healing abilities? Well that's lame, he's no different than Wolverine. Hey, I know, let's give him laser eyes, and a healing ability, and the ability to teleport, and let's make those blades come out out of his arms! That will make him cool! The audience will love him and he'll be able to carry his own solo movie!"

So, yeah, sure, change Cap all you want because you think he's not cool enough, or strong enough, or whatever.....just remember what they did to Deadpool in the Wolverine movie, first.

On a side note about X-Men Origins: Wolverine, don't you think it's funny that Wolverine ever got popular enough for that movie to be made? I mean, come on, isn't a character like Wolverine so lame? He's got nothing but blades and a healing ability--lame, right? Since he doesn't have super strength he looks so pathetic. t:

Now, if you'll excuse me, I think I have to go to the Avengers forum and join in the "Hawkeye needs guns and super strength or else he'll look stupid" thread.

 

[not_a_victim]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbjJBZIONUc

http://www.livevideo.com/video/69D5608928B1455CB577AED2299DFADF/Tiny-s+the+Man.aspx

Two copies of the same video. First one is the complete report, second one is just the good part.
This guy does what you said, he levers the helicopter off his friend. But I will remind you the engine of a helicopter is at the top, and that is the part moving teh most in the videos.
Yes, even at peak levels, with his combined talents, Cap should not be able to lift a car (or object of similar weight) and toss it, but he should be able to do something like this..

 

[afan]

Nice video can't help but think it's..... Captain Buttcrack
Just for arguments sake....
What your forgetting is that Captain America is not as strong as the strongest man, he is as strong as the human body can possibly be! No normal human possesses or even approaches the strength, stamina, speed, agility, balance, etc. that Captain America possesses, he is the ultimate!

That being said throwing a car(unless it's a smart car)may be a bit much.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Turtles,

To begin with, you're blowing that completely out of proportion. Powering up a superhero does not instantly mean that the production company will go "lets just add tons of random powers he's never had before because it's AWESOME!!!"

You have to remember that you're using FOX as an example. That's about as bad as citing Fox News as an unbiased news source.

Remember also, that the Cap being at the level we're talking about already exists in the comics. Ultimate Cap is a fairly popular incarnation of the character, regardless of whether you like him or not. So it wouldn't be like the studio was just going "Hell, let's just beef him up because we think it's cool." They would actually have a source.

And you also seem to overlook that Superheroes get beefed up in almost EVERY movie they are in. Spider-man would never try and stop a train by jumping in front of it and putting his foot down on the railing, nor would he try and do it by shooting out a bunch of webs and holding on. He's never been shown to have that strength level before.

Also, go back and look at the one scene with Deadpool in Origins that pretty much everyone universally liked. The bullet-slicing scene. The DP in the movies obviously had some sort of low-grade mutation or powers, because no normal human can jump into a room of people filled with guns, and slice away hundreds of bullets flying at him.

And yes, strongmen don't lift the entire car up, but we're talking about Cap here, and a Cap in a situation where his adrenaline would be maxed out. Who knows what the guy could do? Heck, I read a story about a rock-climber who was stuck on a ledge, trapped under a boulder. With his adrenaline going, he actually managed to press the boulder up and off him. Officials told him later that the rock weighed over 2 tons.

Now, granted, this man also ripped the muscles in his arms off his bones, and had to be in a hospital for several long days. But if he could just press this rock off him, (not using his legs) who's to say what Cap could do?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

I don't think Cap should be able to throw cars and **** like that. That just isn't, Cap.

Just have him at the level Blonsky was when he fought Hulk at the school. I mean, he ****ing ran rings round the Hulk. That's all you need from Cap.

And also Turtles, if you judge how good a comic book character is by their powers alone then well, pffft. Hopefully you was joking with that crack against Wolverine.

 

[Turtles]

I knew I'd get some responses out of that post. You guys do realize I was exaggerating for effect, right?

I don't think Cap should be able to throw cars and **** like that. That just isn't, Cap.

Just have him at the level Blonsky was when he fought Hulk at the school. I mean, he ****ing ran rings round the Hulk. That's all you need from Cap.

Seconded. Blonsky, though not the most impressive fighter, did look good in his battle with the Hulk.

And also Turtles, if you judge how good a comic book character is by their powers alone then well, pffft. Hopefully you was joking with that crack against Wolverine.

I was being sarcastic. Should I have used the eye-roll smiley? I was trying to point out that heroes without much in the way of powers can, indeed, carry their own film.

By the way, I'm not the one who is judging comic book characters based on their powers alone. Why don't you go back and see all the people who said Cap wasn't good enough as a hero with just a shield and "peak human" strength--they think he needs to be able to lift 2 tons or else he'll look pathetic on film. Frankly, I wonder what those people did before Ultimates came out......they must have hated normal 616 Cap.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Ok ok chill dude. I'm glad you was being sarcy, just couldn't quite tell.

And yea people who judge characters on their powers alone are fools!

Cap could look plenty impressive in the movie if they stay accurate to his power levels. You just need imagination to think of scenarios.

Imagine Cap sprinting full speed at a machine gun nest, deflecting bullets as he goes, jumping over debris, booting Nazi's in the face.

Or fighting Nazi's and someone is about to shoot him from behind and he flips his shield on to his back deflecting the bullets and carries on fighting.

Or deflecting a ****ing tank shell with his shield.

All that there would be great to see one film and it would make Cap look like a thorough bad ass. We don't need to see him throwing cars and punching through walls and crap like that.

 

[Turtles]

^ agreed. Throwing cars is a very unimaginative way of making a character seem cool. I mean, yeah, it is a cool thing to see......but an unimaginative cool thing to see.

 

[Stripesy Strip]

I don't think Cap should be able to throw cars and **** like that. That just isn't, Cap.

Just have him at the level Blonsky was when he fought Hulk at the school. I mean, he ****ing ran rings round the Hulk. That's all you need from Cap.

There's no doubt in my mind that for Marvel Studios, the way Blonsky was done, it was sort of a blueprint for Captain America and how they would do Cap in his futur movie. At places he was almost too extraordinary for Cap, though(especially the running, that was hilarous. he was like Superman in the Dick Donner movie when he outran the train).

 

[Infinity9999x]

^ agreed. Throwing cars is a very unimaginative way of making a character seem cool. I mean, yeah, it is a cool thing to see......but an unimaginative cool thing to see.

I think you're getting the wrong idea about this car thing. If you read above, I made the point that I would only want it to happen once, and even then I would want it to be a very desperate attempt, akin to Spider-man stopping the train in SM2 (which, even though it's far outside what I think Spider-man should be able to do, it was still a good moment.)

I don't think anyone here wants to see Cap tossing around Cars left and right like it's just as easy as all get out. He's not the Hulk, and if the writers did that, it would be bad writing, because it would just be bulking up Cap to show us a stronger Cap for the hell of it.

However, you're argument can go both ways. What's wrong with giving Cap ultimate level strength if it's used in a creative way? Or if it lends itself to the story? Just because a character has super-strength doesn't mean that the writers will automatically say "to hell with good storytelling! Let's just show them blowing up **** because it's COOL!"

For example, a beefed up Cap would be able to hold his own against the Hulk a little better than the normal Cap would, and that's something that could be an issue, if Hulk is a villain in the first Avengers movie.

Yes, Blonsky did all right against Hulk, but we all know that after taking one hit from the Hulk, Blonsky almost got killed. I wouldn't mind my Cap being a little more sturdy, so he could actually take a hit and not be out of commission.

Again, I just don't understand why you think stronger cap = bad storytelling.

 

[Turtles]

Again, I just don't understand why you think stronger cap = bad storytelling.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't think stronger Cap equals bad storytelling. I just think stronger Cap could seem like......cheap storytelling.

I'm not saying that a stronger Cap will automatically ruin the movie, I'm just saying that Cap was an interesting and relevant character in Marvel comics decades before he got a strength boost, so making him stronger for the movie just seems like another Hollywood gimmick--you know, like the car that magically explodes whenever the hero shoots it's gas tank just because it's in the script?

Listen, I know you don't want him throwing cars all the time--that's way out of the question--and even I'll admit that a stronger Cap would be kinda cool. I just think we should look for a happy medium before we go and decide to give Cap Ulitmate-level strength because it's cool.

So, what if Cap was able to lift, say, 1,200 pounds? You'll probably argue that regular humans can do that, so it's not that impressive.....or is it? A regular human can lift 1,200 pounds for what, ten seconds? And they can bench it how many times? Two or three? If Cap can bench/pick up 1,200 pounds without any special devices, and hold it indefinitely thanks to the fact that he doesn't produce lactic acid and doesn't get tired, then he is way more impressive than any regular human.......without being that impressive at all.

You've gotta remember that Cap's endurance alone can make him very impressive, even if he doesn't have a strength boost. Do you understand?

 

[Rage]

I think showing Cap do something like lift a truck/tank off of somebody or out of a giant hole in the road etc... (using all his strength) would show that this man is capable of doing great things. I just don't want to see him hurl a car. Its one thing to be able to say lift a helicopter off a drowning man and its another to lift it and hurl it at an enemy

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea I wouldn't mind him lifting something heavy off of a comrade or something (maybe Bucky?). But no way to hurling things. Cap wouldn't throw anything anyway, apart from his shield.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Don't misunderstand me, I don't think stronger Cap equals bad storytelling. I just think stronger Cap could seem like......cheap storytelling.

I'm not saying that a stronger Cap will automatically ruin the movie, I'm just saying that Cap was an interesting and relevant character in Marvel comics decades before he got a strength boost, so making him stronger for the movie just seems like another Hollywood gimmick--you know, like the car that magically explodes whenever the hero shoots it's gas tank just because it's in the script?

Listen, I know you don't want him throwing cars all the time--that's way out of the question--and even I'll admit that a stronger Cap would be kinda cool. I just think we should look for a happy medium before we go and decide to give Cap Ulitmate-level strength because it's cool.

So, what if Cap was able to lift, say, 1,200 pounds? You'll probably argue that regular humans can do that, so it's not that impressive.....or is it? A regular human can lift 1,200 pounds for what, ten seconds? And they can bench it how many times? Two or three? If Cap can bench/pick up 1,200 pounds without any special devices, and hold it indefinitely thanks to the fact that he doesn't produce lactic acid and doesn't get tired, then he is way more impressive than any regular human.......without being that impressive at all.

You've gotta remember that Cap's endurance alone can make him very impressive, even if he doesn't have a strength boost. Do you understand?

I can agree with that. And actually, I wouldn't mind Cap being around the just over one-ton area. 1200lbs alone is actually very impressive, because even though that's close to the existing bench press record, it was achieved with a bench-shirt.

And I agree with the lactic acid thing, that's what really makes him "super" human. Cap can keep fighting for an indefinite amount of time, because the guy never gets tired, and that's what's impressive to me.

And actually, I really don't care about the car-tossing issue, I just addressed it because it was more about the principal that a beefed up Cap will equal bad storytelling. As I said above, I think it could be done in a way that doesn't cheapen the character. However, I wouldn't mind if it's never in the movies. In fact, I'd actually rather have a situation that Ace describes, where Cap lifts something incredibly heavy off a friend or someone in danger of being crushed under it.

Really, the biggest reason I wanted him to be a little more beefed up is the Hulk issue. If Hulk is going to be in the Avengers movie as a villain for any amount of time, I want my Cap to at least be able to handle a hit from the big green guy without being put out of commission. However, don't take that as me saying I want Cap to be able to take hits from Hulk and jump right back up like it's nothing. Because Cap shouldn't be able to take more then a hit or two, but I think it would make it more interesting if Cap could handle a bit of abuse. It should be Cap dancing around Hulk most of the time, but I wouldn't mind it if Hulk got in one good shot, and Cap isn't turned into mush.

 

[Bren]

I wouldn't mind a scene like that, where he lifts a truck off a comrade, but in a civilian setting.
However, bearing in mind that it'd be a big truck, I'd enjoy seeing him injure himself doing so. Back in the hospital he's getting out of bed (healed quick) and his commanders are moaning that he needs to keep himself fit for war. His response should be a rather straightforward, 'I'll help where I can and that's it'.
Couple things accomplished;
You see how strong he is
You see he's not invulnerable
You see the SSS provides a faster (not wolverine, mind) healing ability
In his reactions to his commanders, you see how much of a hero he is.

But no throwing of vehicles imo.

 

[not_a_victim]

I wouldn't mind a scene like that, where he lifts a truck off a comrade, but in a civilian setting.
However, bearing in mind that it'd be a big truck, I'd enjoy seeing him injure himself doing so. Back in the hospital he's getting out of bed (healed quick) and his commanders are moaning that he needs to keep himself fit for war. His response should be a rather straightforward, 'I'll help where I can and that's it'.
Couple things accomplished;
You see how strong he is
You see he's not invulnerable
You see the SSS provides a faster (not wolverine, mind) healing ability
In his reactions to his commanders, you see how much of a hero he is.

But no throwing of vehicles imo.

I agree.
He may flip a jeep or humvee or something, and he collapses with exhaustion after it is over, or something.
Or something.