The Winter Soldier Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 1

[BullMcGiveny]

HYDRA is supposed to be fanatically devoted to Schmidt. I think if they found Bucky, he'd be brought to Schmidt rather than be kept around until Zola could break out and experiment on him.

 

[Hawkingbird]

Schmidt's dead

 

[cherokeesam]

Schmidt's dead

Yeah, and according to the CATFA timeframe, like within a day or two of the train battle that saw Bucky "die."

 

[BullMcGiveny]

I know, but that's not the point. HYDRA was devoted to Schmidt, and are called a personality cult by characters in-movie.

Therefore, it is very unlikely that there were any of them who had stronger allegiances to Zola than to Schmidt.

Not to mention, Zola himself. He's not the having his own loyalists type. You can see he's terrified of Schmidt, and goes along with everything he says out a sense of self-preservation.

 

[Hawkingbird]

I'm turning to the theory that Zola started it off, and then it got picked up by either the Russians (the original, so the one I want)/HYDRA/ect.

 

[cherokeesam]

I know, but that's not the point. HYDRA was devoted to Schmidt, and are called a personality cult by characters in-movie.

Therefore, it is very unlikely that there were any of them who had stronger allegiances to Zola than to Schmidt.

Not to mention, Zola himself. He's not the having his own loyalists type. You can see he's terrified of Schmidt, and goes along with everything he says out a sense of self-preservation.

Okay, I'll go along with that --- HYDRA probably died when Schmidt did. Or appeared to.

So who does that leave? The Russians? I still don't buy into the idea that the Soviet army would go all psycho on a poor wounded US soldier and start experimenting on and brainwashing him just for kicks.

Let's go back to canon and assume it's Lukin behind all this; but I'd think that Lukin was rogue, and was doing all this for his own purposes and not with Stalin's approval (in much the same way that Johan went off the reservation from the Nazi Party to do his own thing).

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Okay, I'll go along with that --- HYDRA probably died when Schmidt did. Or appeared to.

So who does that leave? The Russians? I still don't buy into the idea that the Soviet army would go all psycho on a poor wounded US soldier and start experimenting on and brainwashing him just for kicks.

In the comics, they do it because they think he might be a super-soldier like Steve. They turn out to be wrong.

In the movies, Bucky does have something super about him thanks to Zola's experiment, maybe not super-strength like Cap, but perhaps a healing factor.

So they keep him around. Because though the US and the USSR are allies, they are never friends. Both sides know the war is winding down, and they'll be at each others' throats next.

A soldier with a healing factor or power of some kind would be a bit too valuable to return. The Americans already suspect that he was KIA. So why not?

 

[Surfer]

Here is some information from the SHH Homepage. It appears Samuel L. Jackson will be reprising his role as Nick Fury next in Captain America The Winter Soldier. Combined with Black Widow and possibly others, it sounds like this movie (out of all of the other phase 2 Marvel movies), is going to be the one where the majority of the remaing Avengers and Shield Agents can be seen.



http://www.superherohype.com/news/articles/173899-samuel-l-jacksons-next-marvel-movie-is-captain-america-the-winter-soldier

It's going to be awesome.


Surfer

 

[LostSon88]

Since Captain America is the one team member most associated with SHIELD, none of this is much of a surprise.

 

[Surfer]

Since Captain America is the one team member most associated with SHIELD, none of this is much of a surprise.

I agree, and SHIELD is part of the governement, and since Cap has not only been a superhero, but a soldier as well there are connections there too. Not to mention that Cap is the one with the closest power levels to these other characters (which will keep things more balanced) unless you consider Tony without his Iron Man suit (which I don't), so yeah it makes sense to me.

Surfer

 

[STR1]

^^^ So Hawkeye is not coming back to CA2?

 

[Surfer]

^^^ So Hawkeye is not coming back to CA2?

There has been rumors regarding Hawkeye returning, but I am not sure if anything has been confirmed or not. I know Widow and now Fury are confirmed for sure, but there is likely to be more.

Surfer

 

[Hawkingbird]

I hope for there to be Hawkeye, but I wouldn't like him to get in the way of Bucky and Natasha. (Stupid Clintasha fanships....)

 

[Crimson King]

Adding Hawkeye might be too much, unless he's only in it for a cameo. This movie is already packed.

 

[Hawkingbird]

But it's Hawkeye

 

[Surfer]

Adding Hawkeye might be too much, unless he's only in it for a cameo. This movie is already packed.

Well if Hawkeye is in this movie it will probably be to create a love triangle where Black Widow is left having to choose between the love of her past (Barnes) and her current love interest (Barton). I suppose it could be okay if it is done correctly, but then again it could also come across as seeming very cliche and somewhat predictable. So if used I hope they get it right.

On another note, out of all of the extra heroes that are, or might be packing into this movie, the one I am looking most forward to seeing (besides Cap himself) is Falcoln. They make an awesome teamup. Also, I am hoping we will see some fighting between Falcoln and Winter Soldier, sort of a new sidekick Vs. old sidekick battle scene would be awesome.

Surfer

 

[M-2]

I'm hoping they dive a little into SHIELD's history, whether its in CA2 or the SHIELD Tv series... There should be scene where Maria Hill or Nick Fury explain to Cap how his team back in his WW2 set up SHIELD or maybe we find out a little about Fury's past, and maybe his Dum Dum Dugan's protege!

I hope they kinda tease the Brother of shield in the TV series.... Just something to show that the concept was around for Hundreds of years and after WW2 it was conceptualized into what it is today.

 

[NewYorkSpider]

Adding Hawkeye might be too much, unless he's only in it for a cameo. This movie is already packed.

Yeah. I hate when they try to pack too much in a movie. I think the film having Fury and Widow is good enough.

 

[Hawkingbird]

I'm hoping they dive a little into SHIELD's history, whether its in CA2 or the SHIELD Tv series... There should be scene where Maria Hill or Nick Fury explain to Cap how his team back in his WW2 set up SHIELD or maybe we find out a little about Fury's past, and maybe his Dum Dum Dugan's protege!

I hope they kinda tease the Brother of shield in the TV series.... Just something to show that the concept was around for Hundreds of years and after WW2 it was conceptualized into what it is today.

They'll probably do that in the SHIELD series.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

I'm hoping they dive a little into SHIELD's history, whether its in CA2 or the SHIELD Tv series... There should be scene where Maria Hill or Nick Fury explain to Cap how his team back in his WW2 set up SHIELD or maybe we find out a little about Fury's past, and maybe his Dum Dum Dugan's protege!

I hope they kinda tease the Brother of shield in the TV series.... Just something to show that the concept was around for Hundreds of years and after WW2 it was conceptualized into what it is today.

Well, the CATFA deleted scenes reveal that after the war, the SSR (The branch of the allied military that Peggy, Steve and the commandos belonged to) eventually turned into SHIELD.

So in a way, Steve is the original gangster of SHIELD.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Well if Hawkeye is in this movie it will probably be to create a love triangle where Black Widow is left having to choose between the love of her past (Barnes) and her current love interest (Barton). I suppose it could be okay if it is done correctly, but then again it could also come across as seeming very cliche and somewhat predictable. So if used I hope they get it right.

Surely, you jest?

That shifts the balance of the story dramatically. It's is Cap's movie.

In parts, it will be Bucky's, sure. But you involve a love-triangle in it, and it puts the focus on Black Widow, who isn't strictly speaking a core Captain America character.

If anyone is getting some, it should be Cap.

To my knowledge, Nick Fury in Cap is old news. It was actually one of the first things we learned, way before that it was subibtled Winter Soldier.

A few weeks ago, the news was that MAria Hill will also be in it.

Hawkeye doesn't belong, sorry. He is the friend of the ex-lover of the best friend of the hero. He's kind of irrelevant to Cap.

 

[cherokeesam]

I think the whole Widow-Bucky thing from the comics will be completely absent from this movie. I think Widow will be aware of the WS project, but without knowing that it's Bucky; but will have no "hands-on" experience with him.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

I think the whole Widow-Bucky thing from the comics will be completely absent from this movie. I think Widow will be aware of the WS project, but without knowing that it's Bucky; but will have no "hands-on" experience with him.

I would be kind of okay with this. I guess. Suppose they can do that and keep it vague. So that it may be revealed later that they were indeed involved, or not.

Ideally, I'd like it if they had a past together, but I'd give that up to give Sam and Sharon their due.

But then, why use Natasha at all? If she just knows about Bucky's past, that role can be filled by Nick Fury, Maria Hill or Sharon.

 

[cherokeesam]

I would be kind of okay with this. I guess. Suppose they can do that and keep it vague. So that it may be revealed later that they were indeed involved, or not.

Ideally, I'd like it if they had a past together, but I'd give that up to give Sam and Sharon their due.

But then, why use Natasha at all? If she just knows about Bucky's past, that role can be filled by Nick Fury, Maria Hill or Sharon.

As a Russian spy, Natasha would logically have a lot more inside info on the project than SHIELD would. So even without a love interest there, Widow is still naturally the heroine who'd be most likely to have a line on Winter Soldier.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

As a Russian spy, Natasha would logically have a lot more inside info on the project than SHIELD would. So even without a love interest there, Widow is still naturally the heroine who'd be most likely to have a line on Winter Soldier.

I understand, but it still feels like a waste. It wouldn't be hard to believe SHIELD had that info on their own.