The Winter Soldier Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 8

[Supermouse]

I am disappointed with the news about it being a year after TA. I wanted to watch a movie where Cap has adventures but is constantly dumbfounded by things like Iphones and intarwebz ( "But this guy says it's a series of tubes!")

 

[Loki882]

We will probably still get that. Given his job and personality, I doubt that he will master modern tech that quickly.

 

[DrCosmic]

I don't see it working well. I really don't get why people are so adamantly pushing for it. I don't see the boyscout getting frantically involved with an assassin/spy period

And the pairing cliche, stale and expected

Luckily Im pretty confident it won't happen

So... people get tired of pairings? Really? Not only that, it's something we've seen, but you just don't see how it could happen? So it's both been done before a lot and at the same time unlikely? This is where your confidence comes from?

I could see those two having a torrid affair but nothing long lasting.

Hmmm... this isn't 616. Black Widow is more than a bed jumper here. She bonds with people, and cares about them deeply, even if she is capable of showing it by beating the crap out of them. She's not any more able to have a torrid affair than Cap is.

Ummm... Haven't we established that Cap/Peggy is the best pairing in the MCU so far? Aren't they a couple with similar beliefs/ethics? It's their personalities that are different, which is what matters. I think it's safe to assume that Sharon will also have a different personality than Cap in this movie. The only way this movie can have a boring pairing is if whatever pair is written in this film is written boringly.

Considering that in the first film it was clearly established that Cap had a type of woman that he was waiting for (or.. a "right partner"), isn't it safe to assume that if he were to move on from Peggy, the woman he moves on to would have to be someone that was another "right partner?" I just don't see a romance with Black Widow replacing the romance he had with Peggy. It wouldn't feel right to go from someone like Peggy to someone like the freaking Black Widow. Peggy to Sharon is such a smooth transition that makes sense. Black Widow brings up way to many problems... problems that go beyond just this movie.

I keep hearing this matchmaking talk. Steve is not hunting for the right partner, and thank goodness he's not trying to replace Peggy: He's fighting for his life, and the person he does it with is a very attractive very capable woman. That makes way for some kind of relationship, and it does create problems that go beyond this movie. That's a *good* thing. That's what we want halfway through, problems! Lots and lots of problems.

To a point, yes. But when two people are that different, you wonder why they're together at all.

In some kind of matchmaking observational real life thing, yes. But after you've seen them bond over the course of a two hour movie and have that 'oh, we're not so different at our core after all' thing that odd couples (romantic or not) always have, then no, you don't wonder, because you've seen a very long extended explanation of why they're together.

Actually they haven't. Ever.

*Does some research*
You're right! It was just in the Ultimate Avengers animated Universe. Good call.

 

[Suzanne78]

What about her? If Sharon needs to be in a relationship with Steve to justify her existence in the MCU, then maybe she's not much of a character. She has to have more to her than that.



You've said that quite often, but it doesn't make sense. Steve is human, not some sort of justice-loving government issued robot. In order to make him a fully fleshed out character with whom the audience can identify, the writers are going to involve him in a variety of relationships, including romantic ones.

This. Which is why I'm grateful that it sounds like Sharon's getting introduced in TWS, for now. Build her character first, see where she goes. If the story dictates in Cap 3 that she and Steve find their way toward each other, and it's organic to their stories, then good, have them get together.

If the story also dictates that they stay colleagues/friends/partners, then that's fine too.

I think Marvel and the Russos get that Sharon shouldn't just be thrown at Steve, considering he's still dealing with losing Peggy, adjusting to the modern day, etc. While Sharon's role may be smaller than some would like, it sounds like she'll get her turn at kicking butt in TWS and at least start developing as her own character and not simply a love interest for Steve.

I'm still not entirely sure BW will be Steve's love interest in this movie either. But I do love that she and Cap will share the movie in a big way. I actually wouldn't mind not having a conventional love story in Cap. For me, he's still dealing with his unresolved feelings for Peggy; I say give the guy a break in the romance department LOL!

I wish more people asked ScarJo and the Russos about any connections BW and Winter Soldier have in the past and if that's something that will carry over from the comics to the movies.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

So... people get tired of pairings? Really? Not only that, it's something we've seen, but you just don't see how it could happen? So it's both been done before a lot and at the same time unlikely? This is where your confidence comes from?

no, people get tired of OBVIOUS pairings. which Widow and Cap is... I think them having a closely bonded friendship and partner ship is far more interesting than them simply "james bonding it" and hopping into bed. I swear, some fanboys get off to there hero getting laid. it's borderline creepy sometimes.

Hmmm... this isn't 616. Black Widow is more than a bed jumper here. She bonds with people, and cares about them deeply, even if she is capable of showing it by beating the crap out of them. She's not any more able to have a torrid affair than Cap is.

I think you're reading into things... so far we just know she cares alot about Clint... we know very little about anything else. She just has a strong bond with Clint and has "red in her ledger". We do not know if she bed hops, or even if she can form any real emotional relationship... personally. I like the idea of Widow being such a good spy, that she has trouble dealing with knowing who she really is sometimes, and having a very hard time getting close to anyone.

In some kind of matchmaking observational real life thing, yes. But after you've seen them bond over the course of a two hour movie and have that 'oh, we're not so different at our core after all' thing that odd couples (romantic or not) always have, then no, you don't wonder, because you've seen a very long extended explanation of why they're together.

eh.... in all honesty... I have a feeling Cap will (and should) view her like a little sister. Who gains his respect. I think you really want this relationship to work for some reason and i really don't get why... it makes Widow into a completely different character imo, and it doesn't make Cap any more interesting. So I really don't see a point in it. It's just "added fluff" imo

*Does some research*
You're right! It was just in the Ultimate Avengers animated Universe. Good call.

yup.. lets not base there relationship on a little one-off toon

 

[spideyboy_1111]

This. Which is why I'm grateful that it sounds like Sharon's getting introduced in TWS, for now. Build her character first, see where she goes. If the story dictates in Cap 3 that she and Steve find their way toward each other, and it's organic to their stories, then good, have them get together.

If the story also dictates that they stay colleagues/friends/partners, then that's fine too.

I think Marvel and the Russos get that Sharon shouldn't just be thrown at Steve, considering he's still dealing with losing Peggy, adjusting to the modern day, etc. While Sharon's role may be smaller than some would like, it sounds like she'll get her turn at kicking butt in TWS and at least start developing as her own character and not simply a love interest for Steve.

I'm still not entirely sure BW will be Steve's love interest in this movie either. But I do love that she and Cap will share the movie in a big way. I actually wouldn't mind not having a conventional love story in Cap. For me, he's still dealing with his unresolved feelings for Peggy; I say give the guy a break in the romance department LOL!

I wish more people asked ScarJo and the Russos about any connections BW and Winter Soldier have in the past and if that's something that will carry over from the comics to the movies.

yeah this is exactly why i don't want sharon until the 3rd film..... He's still getting over Peggy (and for Christ's sake , sees her old and withered in this film), Suddenly dating her younger relative seems creep and makes him seem like looks is all that matter, and with all the stuff he's dealing with personally in this film, he really has no time for love or dating anyone... INCLUDING WIDOW. Could a quick meaningless kiss jump start cap into wanting to move on with his life? sure... but I don't see him romantically involved with anyone in this film

 

[Loki882]

If there writing BW even remotely like she is in the comics (TA seems to indicate that they are), then she has proven consistently that she is not a bed jumper. She gets into committed relationships (Daredevil and Bucky being the most recent). Also, she has no trouble forming attachments to her partners. Maybe the world as a whole, but not her BF.

 

[marcvader]

Hmmm... this isn't 616. Black Widow is more than a bed jumper here. She bonds with people, and cares about them deeply, even if she is capable of showing it by beating the crap out of them. She's not any more able to have a torrid affair than Cap is.

Never said she was a bed jumper. First it's just my opinion and you don't have to respond to everyone's opinion and try to prove them wrong. I'm purely going by the way I see Steve being in the movies so far. He's a very open and opinionated straight shooter that wears his heart on his sleeve. She by virtue of her vocation and questionable isn't. At face value they are diametrically different types of people. In my experience relationships between people of completely different ideals usually do not last. They start very hot but usually collapse under closer scrutiny of each others matter of being. That's the way I would see a relationship between these two characters going.

 

[Crimson King]

Given that is sounds like Sharon might not be up front with Steve about who she is in TWS, I kind of doubt we'll see them get together in this movie. From the descriptions of how she's introduced, it seems like she's being put in Steve's building as a way for SHIELD to keep an eye on him. Probably not going to go over well when he finds out.

As for Cap/BW, it works for me. They may not be an item for long, but I can totally buy them falling for each other temporarily.

 

[MysticRain]

I wish more people asked ScarJo and the Russos about any connections BW and Winter Soldier have in the past and if that's something that will carry over from the comics to the movies.

During one of his interviews at SDCC, Kevin Feige mentions "that without giving too much away, we do plan a back story between BW and WS." I think with the BTS pics of Cap and BW kissing and Evans and ScarJo always seen together in interviews, led many people to rightly assume that there will be Cap and BW romance. However knowing Marvel, I wouldn't be surprised that they purposely planned that to mislead people. t:

On another note, I do hope that they give the Winter Soldier somewhat of a personality of his own while he’s still under the influence and that they don’t portray him as some mindless/mute who just carries out orders, otherwise we won’t see him say anything until he regains his memories, which could be at the very end of the film.

Also during SDCC, Sebastian did say his character does have quite a bit of dialogue. Explaining his hairdo...

Spoiler

supposedly during the film, WS goes AWOL and wanders around the city like a homeless dude.

 

[Suzanne78]

During one of his interviews at SDCC, Kevin Feige mentions "that without giving too much away, we do plan a back story between BW and WS." I think with the BTS pics of Cap and BW kissing and Evans and ScarJo always seen together in interviews, led many people to rightly assume that there will be Cap and BW romance. However knowing Marvel, I wouldn't be surprised that they purposely planned that to mislead people. t:



Also during SDCC, Sebastian did say his character does have quite a bit of dialogue. Explaining his hairdo...

Spoiler

supposedly during the film, WS goes AWOL and wanders around the city like a homeless dude.

Ah! Thanks for his info. I'm still catching up on all the drops from the cons.

You wouldn't happen to have video of these interviews by chance?

 

[cherokeesam]

yeah this is exactly why i don't want sharon until the 3rd film..... He's still getting over Peggy (and for Christ's sake , sees her old and withered in this film), Suddenly dating her younger relative seems creep and makes him seem like looks is all that matter, and with all the stuff he's dealing with personally in this film, he really has no time for love or dating anyone... INCLUDING WIDOW. Could a quick meaningless kiss jump start cap into wanting to move on with his life? sure... but I don't see him romantically involved with anyone in this film

Who says hasn't already had time to get over Peggy, or that he doesn't have the time nor inclination to start dating someone new? The Avengers deleted scenes showed him developing a small but growing relationship with The Waitress. In the end, Joss axed almost all of it, but he originally cared enough about the angle to script it and film it, and has said in interviews that he wished he could've kept it in the film except for runtimes going over. Still, it's enough of a subplot to show that even a few months after The Thaw, and even with his superhero membership card getting renewed, he still has the time (and the testosterone) to get back into the dating scene.

 

[Suzanne78]

Who says hasn't already had time to get over Peggy, or that he doesn't have the time nor inclination to start dating someone new? The Avengers deleted scenes showed him developing a small but growing relationship with The Waitress. In the end, Joss axed almost all of it, but he originally cared enough about the angle to script it and film it, and has said in interviews that he wished he could've kept it in the film except for runtimes going over. Still, it's enough of a subplot to show that even a few months after The Thaw, and even with his superhero membership card getting renewed, he still has the time (and the testosterone) to get back into the dating scene.

What relationship? Personally I think you read way too much into the deleted scene. The waitress flirted with Steve, and Steve didn't know what to make of it. Stan Lee basically had to whump him on the head to even consider anything. But there was no relationship, or "relationship" to speak of.

He was, likely still is, trying to deal with his feelings for Peggy. I think it is pretty clear from TA that the what-could-have-been with Peggy looms too large for him.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Who says hasn't already had time to get over Peggy, or that he doesn't have the time nor inclination to start dating someone new? The Avengers deleted scenes showed him developing a small but growing relationship with The Waitress. In the end, Joss axed almost all of it, but he originally cared enough about the angle to script it and film it, and has said in interviews that he wished he could've kept it in the film except for runtimes going over. Still, it's enough of a subplot to show that even a few months after The Thaw, and even with his superhero membership card getting renewed, he still has the time (and the testosterone) to get back into the dating scene.

.... because cap obviously isn't the type to get over someone over the course of merely a few months (which to him, it has been, he blinked and it was 2012....)

not only that, but to make it more obvious.. he goes to see her in this film

 

[spideyboy_1111]

What relationship? Personally I think you read way too much into the deleted scene. The waitress flirted with Steve, and Steve didn't know what to make of it. Stan Lee basically had to whump him on the head to even consider anything. But there was no relationship, or "relationship" to speak of.

He was, likely still is, trying to deal with his feelings for Peggy. I think it is pretty clear from TA that the what-could-have-been with Peggy looms too large for him.

oh lord.. people think a girl flirting after someone saving their life is suddenly a relationship? No wonder people are single

 

[Suzanne78]

oh lord.. people think a girl flirting after someone saving their life is suddenly a relationship? No wonder people are single

The waitress and Steve scenes were barely anything at all; I think the actress may be a Whedon regular, so he included her for a little flirting, to really emphasize the degree that Steve was trying to move on from Peggy and was trying to live a normal life in the present. But there was no "relationship" building.

Heck, that deleted scene was more about foreshadowing Tony and Steve meeting than it was about Steve and the waitress.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

no, she's a spy/black ops secret agent. Her allegiances do not always fall with who commands her, and soldiers always obey orders. That's not widow.

Neither do Cap's allegiances.

Isn't there a "love interest" thread?

 

[Xeno]

The waitress and Steve scenes were barely anything at all; I think the actress may be a Whedon regular, so he included her for a little flirting, to really emphasize the degree that Steve was trying to move on from Peggy and was trying to live a normal life in the present. But there was no "relationship" building.

Heck, that deleted scene was more about foreshadowing Tony and Steve meeting than it was about Steve and the waitress.

The scenes with the waitress were supposed to be connected, to demonstrate to the audience a sort of human connection between Steve and one of the people whose life he saved during the Battle of Manhattan. Had the first scene at the cafe been retained, she could have served as a proxy for the audience during the battle, giving us a person we recognized whose peril we could empathize with.

The mild, one-sided flirtation might have led to something more if Whedon were in command of Steve's fate. The waitress could have become a friend with no connections to SHIELD, if nothing else. To me, she symbolized the modern world from which Steve felt so far removed.

 

[Suzanne78]

The scenes with the waitress were supposed to be connected, to demonstrate to the audience a sort of human connection between Steve and one of the people whose life he saved during the Battle of Manhattan. Had the first scene at the cafe been retained, she could have served as a proxy for the audience during the battle, giving us a person we recognized whose peril we could empathize with.

The mild, one-sided flirtation might have led to something more if Whedon were in command of Steve's fate. The waitress could have become a friend with no connections to SHIELD, if nothing else. To me, she symbolized the modern world from which Steve felt so far removed.

I guess she did nothing for me. Thought her screen time was just right for Avengers.

I get what you're saying though. But I'm glad she didn't have more to do in the movie.

 

[Loki882]

She was barely in the movie, she didn't have time to "do anything" for anyone.

 

[MysticRain]

You wouldn't happen to have video of these interviews by chance?

I think Sebastian's ones are just articles. Here's a video interview with Feige. I thought the interviewer did a good job asking informative non-spoilery questions. CA part starts around 7 minutes in.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Neither do Cap's allegiances.

Isn't there a "love interest" thread?

That's just it though. Cap is essentially a Ronin .... He doesn't follow orders and his only boss is "truth justice and the American way". Widow actually works for people

 

[Xeno]

That's just it though. Cap is essentially a Ronin .... He doesn't follow orders and his only boss is "truth justice and the American way". Widow actually works for people

In the MCU Steve worked for the military first and now he works for SHIELD. It was that way in the comics for the first few years after he was rescued from the ice. Steve actually wrote to Nick Fury and asked to become a SHIELD agent in the comic book, and of course in the film he agrees to it for reasons we'll learn down the line. But at this point he's a SHIELD black ops agent rather than a lone wolf.

 

[Raiden]

Here's an interview with the Russo brothers, the directors of The Winter Solder (warning: some spoilers ahead):

‘Captain America: The Winter Soldier’ Directors Talk Politics, Widow & The ‘Stealth Suit’

 

[TheVileOne]

By the end of Avengers, he didn't seem so high on SHIELD and Fury, so I hope they explain why he stuck with them.