First Avenger Captain America and Steroids: is this an issue?

[Skaigear2]

I think the way to make it work is by making Rogers NOT a skinny weakling before the serum, but just a very good soldier in very good physical shape, and the experiment on him is completely involuntarily.

 

[C. Lee]

I think the way to make it work is by making Rogers NOT a skinny weakling before the serum, but just a very good soldier in very good physical shape, and the experiment on him is completely involuntarily.

That defeats the whole idea of Cap.....he was a weakling who none of the armed forces wanted during WWII....so he volunteered for a dangerous experiment in his attempt to defend his country.

 

[tamron]

I think the way to make it work is by making Rogers NOT a skinny weakling before the serum, but just a very good soldier in very good physical shape, and the experiment on him is completely involuntarily.

Don't tweak Cap's origin. That the guy was so willing to serve his country so much that he's willing to die in an experiment to just to be able to potentially die in a war. That speaks to his patriotism and his self-determination, characteristics that define the character.

If he's a good soldier already and volunteers, you could say, "oh, he's a glory hound" or something, because if Steve's motivation is simply to serve, and he's already in, he's doing that already. And if you make the experiment involuntary, we make the US military the enemy, which I don't want to see in this particular film. It should be clear cut without being jingoistic; US good, Axis powers bad.

Steve was completely selfless and patriotic in his origin, and that should remain untouched, IMHO.

 

[aka Kal el]

Marvel ran a mini-series, Red, White, and Black, that dealt with U.S. experimentation on African American soldiers as failed precursors to the ultimate success of Steven Rogers (reminiscent of the infamous “Tuskegee experiments”). I envison that concept being touched upon at some point in the film series (ideally), with perhaps some darkly-lit flash backs of horribly mutated, grotesquely over-muscled victims dying in hospital beds. The Bad Side of steroids, itself exaggerated to devious, unethical, conspiratorial governmental proportions.

But as for negatively influencing the audience watching young Steve getting shot up with Barry Bonds Brand Home Run Juice, maybe that isn't such a bad thing. It reflects more on the people who did it to him than it does on him anyway. But you could always veilt he substance with science fiction. Maybe, instead of traditional anabolic steroids, he gets courses of "Myostatin inhibitors" - a technology and related condition that is quite real, but which presently has only occured naturally in certain brees of cows, dogs, and a few humans; or worked artificially in rats.

A comparison of mice, showing the effects of artificially suprresed myostatin proteins:

Myostatin-light whippets, or "Bully whippets" lack the fully fuctional genetic material that codes for myostatin:

"Belgain Blues", cows specially bred for their distinctive "double muscling":

The over-muscled legs of a German (I believe) baby born some years ago with a natural myostatin defiency:

There was also a boy with a simliar condition born in the American south a few years ago. Lucky bastards.

If you read this months Popular science you will find out that Mystatin blockers are becoming a reality! All the drug companies are now working on this! It is not a steriod! I would not be surprised if Super soldiers become a reality very shortly! If you don't think there are not military human trials going on right now I have a beautiful bridge in Brooklyn to sell you! There is *&^% out there right now that would blow your mind.

 

[Timstuff]

I think the best suggestion, though, is something you alluded to. Namely, having him deal with the side effects. Maybe this stuff makes him angry, irrational, and even sick. Maybe we see Steve Rogers push through all that to become the star-spangled avenger we all know and respect. Making the serum more the demon he has to overcome rather than the godsend he was looking for.

I actually like this idea. It'd give the character an extra layer of depth (having to fight the inner demons that the serum provoked), and it would send a message to the viewer that Captain America's "super serum" is not necessarily something that you would want someone putting in you.

Also, as someone mentioned they could show that Steve wasn't the first test subject for a super serum formula, but rather the test subject for the first "successful" one. Sadly, one of our country's less than shining moments was when using black people and the mentally disabled as human lab rats, and that was around the time of WW2. I'm not saying that needs to be a huge theme in the movie, but if they did have someone shove some photographs of people who died taking the serum at him, it would be kind of a sobering moment.

Basically, I think the best way to avoid the steroid controversy is to confront it directly-- show that many people get hurt or even die when they try to take the chemical shortcut, and even if it "works," you'll probably find yourself haunted by side effects, even if you're Captain America.

 

[tamron]

Why does every character have to battle 'inner demons'? Cap isn't Batman or Punisher. It's fiction, I really don't want to see Cap's movie turning into a PSA on the dangers of steroids.

 

[3dman27]

neither do i

 

[Red Mask]

This guy is suppose to be loved by both his country and his countrymen. So how can this story be told without the stigma of steroids getting in the way of that?

How can we talk about the U.S. victory without the A-bomb? But Captain America was a person with his own conscience.

 

[TheMayor]

yeah its a issue.

 

[WildcatNC]

This is only an issue if your looking for it to be one IMO.


Besides, shouldn't this be in the Hulk threads??

 

[echostation]

I don't think Jose Immanuel Innaritu Ul-Hupti would have really wanted in his action script for the American Captain to take steroids or myostatin myogenin inhibitors. Makes no sense.

They should explain it that the serum used on Cap is akchully ASGARDIAN technology, much like the crystal cube that Red Skull finds, make Cap's powers from Asgardian technology, that way you more crisply tie all the films together. Thor and Captain American become more intertwined and bonded like a snake with a ladder...

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

wow. today must really be a slow news day.....

 

[Whiskey Tango]

wow. today must really be a slow news day.....

No, we just have another troll running amok.

 

[Slipeor]

I get the parallels and I personal love "Cap is juicing" jokes, but there is a key difference.

Steve Rogers was born with the metal capacity to be Capitain America, but he lost the genetic lottery big time. He was A 98 lb weakling with health defects and no ampunt of training could make him a superhero. The whole Project Rebirth thing was like Hulk's gamma rays, Spider-Man's radioactive spiderm etc.

It was a one-time change in body type. Since then, Steve Rogers has trained like a mad-man everyday and not used any steroids. Sure he doesn't get tired, etc, but those are really like super-powers, regardless of what Marvel writers say (because even the best trained athletes in the world right now will build up lactic acid and need rest). But it's a COMIC BOOK. You have to suspend disbelief.

So Cap isn't a steroid user, despite the parallels. The guy sthat use steroids need to do so continuously and are typically already big guys that are trying to get bigger.

 

[BoredGuy]

No, we just have another troll running amok.

yeah i think its the same troll i saw lurkin a week ago, just with a different name...
low post counts, must keep switching

 

[Whiskey Tango]

yeah i think its the same troll i saw lurkin a week ago, just with a different name...
low post counts, must keep switching

He was in one of the other threads going on about how Marvel must be embarrassed and teh movie is doomed!!! since they haven't released the trailer yet. Just more of the same.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

This is only an issue if your looking for it to be one IMO.


Besides, shouldn't this be in the Hulk threads??

Hulk isn't really in the glamorous position Steve Rogers is. We're supposed to think turning into the Hulk is some sort of curse that he uses for good. Also, Hulk was never a willing participant in the comics, nor were the side effects in the show intended. I'd say there are some striking parrallels between what the public preceives steroids as doing, and what happens to Steve Rogers. I've literally seen anti-drug videos that portray steroids as "magic muscle" pills that function just like the SSS. I would also contend it's exactly the same thing. The only reason Steve gets a pass is because the comics don't treat it like a drug, but it is. We're told because Steve is pure of heart or some such nonsense that he gets a free pass, but somehow all steroid users are just outbloated, arrogant meatheads...which is hardly the case. It is fiction, so it obeys it's own rules, and in a way can simply ignore any double standards that may arise. From my perspective though, as much as I like Cap, in reality he's no different from Bane aside from the fact that he represents values we're generally sympathetic to and Bane doesn't.

 

[captainrogers]

Well, Cap underwent a procedure to help his body match his will and fighting spirit. He risked death to get the means by which to defend justice. The formula brought about a controlled Genetic change. It outright gave him a brand 'new' body. Its not like steve gets 'roid rage' or has to constantly has to 'juice' up to maintain and improve his physique. I mean even to a certain extent, most of us continualy use coffee as an energy enhancer (I do) cap does not have a source that he has to get SuperSoldier Serum from. He was an extruciating one and done. Now if one has to make a connection, you can say that steroids came about as failed processes to recreate the serum.

 

[WildcatNC]

Hulk isn't really in the glamorous position Steve Rogers is. We're supposed to think turning into the Hulk is some sort of curse that he uses for good. Also, Hulk was never a willing participant in the comics, nor were the side effects in the show intended. I'd say there are some striking parrallels between what the public preceives steroids as doing, and what happens to Steve Rogers. I've literally seen anti-drug videos that portray steroids as "magic muscle" pills that function just like the SSS. I would also contend it's exactly the same thing. The only reason Steve gets a pass is because the comics don't treat it like a drug, but it is. We're told because Steve is pure of heart or some such nonsense that he gets a free pass, but somehow all steroid users are just outbloated, arrogant meatheads...which is hardly the case. It is fiction, so it obeys it's own rules, and in a way can simply ignore any double standards that may arise. From my perspective though, as much as I like Cap, in reality he's no different from Bane aside from the fact that he represents values we're generally sympathetic to and Bane doesn't.

Yea, you can make the parallels but I was really just making an offhand comment. If anyone gets roided up its the Hulk.

One major difference is the context in which they were created. Bane is a child of the steroids era. Cap was from way before it was ever an issue or anyone thought about it.

I understand the parallels though.

 

[wobbly]

1 thing I forgot to add from my previous post is, I'm more worried that Marvel may want to distance themselves from the steroid comparison & change Cap's origin. I'm afraid they may 'Hulk' out Cap. And what I mean by that is subjecting him exposure to a machine of radiation ala Banner.

Cap's origin does involve being exposed to radiation: After taking the serum he is bombarded with (fictional) Vita Rays to activate and stabilise the serums effects (and in the movie they look to be using that chamber to deliver the rays).

That's more than enough to distance the idea from just taking steroids (though I think I have read an origin story where he was given steroids to boost his weak system before putting it through the SS procedure).

Anyways, I don't think anyone will seriously make a steroid comparison with Cap. All meta-human superheroes get their abilities from something, be it a genetic fluke for mutants, a spider bite, a yellow sun for an alien, etc. Caps something is an experiment that was never repeated.

 

[The Infernal]

Is this thread serious? Wasn't there another thread like this (and one in the Hulk forum) ages ago? Pretty sure we exhausted this rubbish already.

 

[jab1118]

How about this Steve doesnt take the SSS and go join Jesse Owens in embarrassing Hitler at the Berlin Olympics. The only problem with steroids is its cheating. Who is Cap cheating? If a soldier could take something to make him the perfect soldier even today and could say win the war on terror would we say he had an unfair advantage? No we would say brave sacrifice. So there is no issue close thread please.

 

[jab1118]

How about this Steve doesnt take the SSS and go join Jesse Owens in embarrassing Hitler at the Berlin Olympics. The only problem with steroids is its cheating. Who is Cap cheating? If a soldier could take something to make him the perfect soldier even today and could say win the war on terror would we say he had an unfair advantage? No we would say brave sacrifice. So there is no issue close thread please.

 

[Obi-Ron]

1 thing I forgot to add from my previous post is, I'm more worried that Marvel may want to distance themselves from the steroid comparison & change Cap's origin. I'm afraid they may 'Hulk' out Cap. And what I mean by that is subjecting him exposure to a machine of radiation ala Banner.

They would probably call them something stupid like "Vita-Rays" or something.

 

[Eagle]

I think they (the producers) will avoid this issue by having Cap go through a sci-fi esque transformation, almost like the gamma rays from Hulk.

We have only seen a machine, no needles. < I doubt we will anyway