Captain Marvel General Discussion and Speculation - Part 1

[Suzanne78]

Yeah, Rhodey's her current boyfriend in the comics, and I'd be happy if they went that route for the MCU. For the record, I am NOT suggesting Carol and Spidey hook up in the MCU. I see most of their banter as a sort of big sister/little brother type, and that's why I find it adorable and hope to see some of it in the movies. I mean, he'll be a teenager in the MCU, so while he might have a slight crush on her, anything else would be weird.

Oooooh! I like this idea a lot!

I am a huge Carol/Rhodey fan too. Love it if they kept that relationship in the MCU canon as well.

(This is a much better Spidey discussion than whatever else is going on in his forums, LOL)

 

[Mike5575]

We haven't seen much of Rhodey, but there's nothing to suggest that Rhodey is taken, meaning that a Carol/Rhodey love team would be possible in the MCU. For her first movie, I'd rather not see any complicated relationships. Just Carol being awesome in space or just punching a quinjet. I don't know why, I just want to see her punch a quinjet. She punches an evil hydra quinjet or tosses it several miles in the ocean just because she's pissed.

 

[Fincher]

I'm in favor of Carol having her own supporting cast, including introducing a new romantic interest if they're going to have one. Especially since it's a good idea to cast romantic interests based on chemistry, and they're not going to choose a lead for Captain Marvel based on whether she works well with Don Cheadle.

 

[Mike5575]

What do you guys think about the idea of Carol being born half-kree instead of becoming part Kree with her transformation?

I have an idea: The Kree send a fleet to Earth once they find out about Thanos planning to destroy the universe. The Kree plan on going to Earth to get the Inhumans to help. They use their advanced technology to find Attilan. The Kree arrival forces the Inhumans out of hiding. Among those attached to this Kree force is Captain Marvel. Carol and Msr-Fell get caught in an explosion from some Kree super weapon. Her unique human/Kree DNA allows her to absorb the energy of the weapon and get superpowers. Mar-Vell, however gets injured and reveals himself to be Carol's father just before he dies in her arms. This happens early on in Infinity War 1 or something.

Is this crazy, insane, or could it work? Would it be a better adaptation of the character?

 

[Silvermoth]

It would be intriguing but I wonder if maybe star lord has already claimed that territory unfortunately

 

[Mike5575]

It would be intriguing but I wonder if maybe star lord has already claimed that territory unfortunately

I don't think Starlord's father is a Kree. Starlord's father is a member of an alien race the Nova Empire hasn't seen before.

 

[cph9fa]

I don't think Starlord's father is a Kree. Starlord's father is a member of an alien race the Nova Empire hasn't seen before.

I assumed Silvermoth was speaking in more general terms of simply being half-alien -- not necessarily half-Kree.

But, TBH, I really don't care to have Carol already be half Kree either.

 

[Mike5575]

I assumed Silvermoth was speaking in more general terms of simply being half-alien -- not necessarily half-Kree.

But, TBH, I really don't care to have Carol already be half Kree either.

Yeah, I thought he was either speaking about that or being part Kree. I wasn't sure. If she is part Kree that takes away from her father being her on Earth. The fact that her sad never acknowledged her daughter's greatness is what lead her to become such a driven person in the first place. It's what pushed her to become a pilot for the Air Force. Always further, faster, farther, more...

I do still like the idea of her transforming into half Kree. She has to struggle with that in the current age and decide what that means for her.

 

[flickchick85]

While I'm fine with changes in the details, I see no reason to alter the basic foundations of her origin, tbh. It's already a solid origin story that would fit well into the MCU as is, imo.

 

[Mike5575]

Carol's origin story isn't that solid. She got her powers from a kree wishing machine, her DNA copied from a male superhero, making herself the female version of that character. She could still get her powers from Mar-Vell, but I'd like it if they show her powers are far greater than his or at least different.

 

[Panthro]

Carol's origin story isn't that solid. She got her powers from a kree wishing machine, her DNA copied from a male superhero, making herself the female version of that character. She could still get her powers from Mar-Vell, but I'd like it if they show her powers are far greater than his or at least different.

I admit I always found that "wishing machine" angle to be kind of lame so if they decided not to use that it wouldn't bother me.

 

[flickchick85]

I wasn't referring to the specific device when I said "the basics." I was referring to the broadstrokes of her story: she develops a friendship (I prefer the platonic version) with a Kree spy who turns in favor of humanity in large part because of her; In an explosion of a Kree device, he tries to save her, the fusion of their DNA by the energy of the device imbues her with powers, and he eventually dies (yes I know it's unrelated in the comics but he DOES eventually die and she takes up the mantle). It's basically a story where the character positioned as "the love interest" becomes the lead superhero, which is something I love that we haven't yet seen done in this genre on screen. That's what I want to keep intact. The "wishing machine" aspect is irrelevant, though we've had discussions on this board before about how the Psyche-Magnetron could be portrayed in less silly ways.

 

[Mike5575]

I admit I always found that "wishing machine" angle to be kind of lame so if they decided not to use that it wouldn't bother me.

Maybe the Kree use her as a prototype for the ultimate weapon. The Kree could take the culmination of thousands of years of work including the Inhumans project, as well as the combined work of like 12 different super soldier programs or something. They don't expect her to survive the procedure. They plan on using her DNA to create an all powerful army, but she survives, and escapes.

 

[Silvermoth]

I assumed Silvermoth was speaking in more general terms of simply being half-alien -- not necessarily half-Kree.

But, TBH, I really don't care to have Carol already be half Kree either.

Precisely. As far as the audience is aware there would be no difference between being half Kree and half whatever star lord is (Spartax or something? No-one correct me because I'm not actually that interested in the answer)

 

[fixxxer]

Maybe the Kree use her as a prototype for the ultimate weapon. The Kree could take the culmination of thousands of years of work including the Inhumans project, as well as the combined work of like 12 different super soldier programs or something. They don't expect her to survive the procedure. They plan on using her DNA to create an all powerful army, but she survives, and escapes.

Nah, somehow to make her powers the result of structured experimentation somehow diminishes her essence to me.

Like flickchick said, the same broad strokes can be used with zero necessity for said magic wish fulfilling thingamabob. I would keep both her origin and the plot somewhat simple.

* There's a Kree doomsday device meant to obliterate Earth... maybe they blame Thanos' currently ongoing universal rampage on the meddling Earthlings.

* Mar-Vell's been a long standing Kree spy on Earth who was previously unflinchingly loyal to the Kree empire, but not completely unsympathetic towards humanity.

* His (not necessarily romantic, as flickchick said) relationship with Carol causes him to reevaluate his loyalties.

* Mar-Vell makes a split second decision to save Carol and, by proxy, humanity. They disable the "doomsday" part of the doomsday device, but it still explodes sending cosmicish radiation. Mar-Vell shields Carol. Mar-Vell DNA + radiation + Carol's Earthling DNA causes a freak accident giving Danvers her powers.

* Mar-Vell's branded a traitor by Supreme Intelligence thingy.

* Mar-Vell comes clean to Carol. He's pretty badly wounded though, so he's out of commission for a while. He says he'll heal in time, but implores Carol not to turn him in. She acquiesces.

* Glorious montage of a conflicted and somewhat emotionally wounded Carol exploring her Cap'n Marvel powers. Kinda bittersweet stuff here. Yes, Mar-Vell betrayed her to an extent. But raw power. And FLIGHT!

* Kree attack Earth. They send a small force comprising of a few ships, a Kree Sentry, re-cloned Ronan, Yon-Rogg and some generic Kree cannon-fodder soldiers.

* Ronan judges. The Sentry sentries. Yon-Rogg slays a weakened Mar-Vell. Carol is very sad. Screams "Nooooo!"

* Carol's Air Force buddies join the party led by Rhodey in War Machine gear. Earth is saved.

* Re-cloned Ronan flees back to his planet in disgrace. Tells Supreme Intelligence thingy that they've underestimated the Earthlings (join the club) but it will be the last time. Camera sweeps back to see the majesty of the Kree forces in its entirety.

* Post-credit scene... more Thanos! ****!

Unfortunately, I think she might be involved in IW1 as a fully powered superhero, which would throw a wrench into the spokes of the above framework.

 

[Mike5575]

* There's a Kree doomsday device meant to obliterate Earth... maybe they blame Thanos' currently ongoing universal rampage on the meddling Earthlings.

* Mar-Vell's been a long standing Kree spy on Earth who was previously unflinchingly loyal to the Kree empire, but not completely unsympathetic towards humanity.

* His (not necessarily romantic, as flickchick said) relationship with Carol causes him to reevaluate his loyalties.

* Mar-Vell makes a split second decision to save Carol and, by proxy, humanity. They disable the "doomsday" part of the doomsday device, but it still explodes sending cosmicish radiation. Mar-Vell shields Carol. Mar-Vell DNA + radiation + Carol's Earthling DNA causes a freak accident giving Danvers her powers.

* Mar-Vell's branded a traitor by Supreme Intelligence thingy.

* Mar-Vell comes clean to Carol. He's pretty badly wounded though, so he's out of commission for a while. He says he'll heal in time, but implores Carol not to turn him in. She acquiesces.

* Glorious montage of a conflicted and somewhat emotionally wounded Carol exploring her Cap'n Marvel powers. Kinda bittersweet stuff here. Yes, Mar-Vell betrayed her to an extent. But raw power. And FLIGHT!

* Kree attack Earth. They send a small force comprising of a few ships, a Kree Sentry, re-cloned Ronan, Yon-Rogg and some generic Kree cannon-fodder soldiers.

* Ronan judges. The Sentry sentries. Yon-Rogg slays a weakened Mar-Vell. Carol is very sad. Screams "Nooooo!"

* Carol's Air Force buddies join the party led by Rhodey in War Machine gear. Earth is saved.

* Re-cloned Ronan flees back to his planet in disgrace. Tells Supreme Intelligence thingy that they've underestimated the Earthlings (join the club) but it will be the last time. Camera sweeps back to see the majesty of the Kree forces in its entirety.

* Post-credit scene... more Thanos! ****!

Unfortunately, I think she might be involved in IW1 as a fully powered superhero, which would throw a wrench into the spokes of the above framework.

Awesome! Reading this makes me want to break into Marvel and read all their potential scripts for this movie! As good as this is, they've been planning for this movie for years.

I liked ho you retained certain elements of the story such as a Ronan judging Mar-Vell. I hope he says it just like he did to Xandar in GOTG. I could just picture it: "Mar-Vell, people of Earth, you stand accuuuuused!"

I Imagined that Ronan would come back, but figured Thanos would resurrect him just to torment Ronan.

Carol would seek justice and go after both Yon-Rogg and Ronan. Ronan seemed incredibly strong in GOTG as he humbled and humiliated Drax, but something tells me Carol would do better than Drax. This is why I'd like the Guardians to be around to witness Carol fight, and defeat Ronan by herself, so they could tell just how strong she really is. Carol slapping around Ronan and knocking off his silly headgear would be too much awesome. t:

I like the idea of Carol's human DNA playing a big part of her powers. The Kree have long known of humanity's genetic potential with the Inhumans.

So, with the Kree coming, would they side with Thanos or fight with us? I like the idea of humanity repelling yet another invasion. Earth at this part would start to become very interesting to the galactic community and a possible nuisance. They may fear that once humanity is capable of interstellar travel, they would become to big of a threat to stop.

I hope Carol teams up with the Guardians. That I want to see. I could only imagine the awesomeness. Carol and Peter would easily become best friends since they both love Star Wars. I could imagine her turn to Peter as she sees Rocket for the very first time. A confused Carol asks as she points to Rocket, "Is that a raccoon?" An exasperated Rocket then says "What's a raccoon?!" Groot would cheer Carol up when she's feeling homesick by giving her a hug. I'd imagine their first encounter would be confusing. "I am Groot." A frustrated Carol nods and says, "Yes, your name is Groot, but tell me a bit about yourself." "I am Groot." Somebody eventually breaks it to her. Drax would confuse her with his extreme literalism. "We shall all put our finger on Thanos' throat" says Drax. Gamora would Marvel at Carol's incredible strength. Not just physical strength, strength of character as well.

 

[Mike Murdock]

The only real problem I have with her origin story is she's basically a passive character in it. It's a Captain Mar-Vell story where she's the damsel in distress. He saves the day.

I think there was potential for her to be a strong character - she has the role of a strong, independent woman who has a position of authority. But the story can't get past its 60s sexism. Her "feminine weakness" (their words in her mouth) for Captain Marvel makes it hard for her to do anything effectively and, in the story where she essentially becomes Ms. Marvel, what she does it gets kidnapped and gets rescued.

 

[Endeavor]

I don't see how having her be born as an alien hybrid makes it any less of a passive character. There you have her powerset coming from lineage and something completely out of her control.
The change-by-alien tech angle can be done without making her a damsel in distress. She could be exposed to something while saving civilians, or maybe even the alien (Mar-Vell) or aliens (Kree, or whatever else) themselves.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it would either (I wasn't endorsing any other theory). The only advantage I can think of for that is it would allow you to dispense with an origin entirely. Otherwise, it's just change for the sake of change without really being better at all.

I think the comics origin can be spiced up with few changes and work fairly well.

BTW, I think this topic needs its own thread.

 

[Endeavor]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it would either (I wasn't endorsing any other theory). The only advantage I can think of for that is it would allow you to dispense with an origin entirely. Otherwise, it's just change for the sake of change without really being better at all.

I think the comics origin can be spiced up with few changes and work fairly well.

I didn't think you were championing for one version or another. I just added my thoughts to comment on the overall subject at hand.
And yeah, I think it deserves it's own thread.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Threaded started - with poll options!

 

[fixxxer]

The only real problem I have with her origin story is she's basically a passive character in it. It's a Captain Mar-Vell story where she's the damsel in distress. He saves the day.

I think there was potential for her to be a strong character - she has the role of a strong, independent woman who has a position of authority. But the story can't get past its 60s sexism. Her "feminine weakness" (their words in her mouth) for Captain Marvel makes it hard for her to do anything effectively and, in the story where she essentially becomes Ms. Marvel, what she does it gets kidnapped and gets rescued.

Agreed. You make a very good point here.

I think it can be fixed (fixxxed, even... drumroll ) fairly easily.

Take the same origin scene I described and replace with the following...

Mar-Vell's admiration for Carol, and by extension, humanity suddenly overwhelms him and he decides to martyr himself to save humanity from immediate annihilation. He starts to "diffuse" the Kree Doomsday Device and screams at Carol to start running.

Carol being Carol, intervenes. Not unkindly, but yet extremely angered and betrayed, "You don't get to be the martyr here... ohhh, look at me saving the world. Like that cancels out years of spying... ALIEN spying!" She tackles Mar-Vell just as he succeeds in diffusing the doomsday thingamabob. Thingamabob still goes off, emitting radiation, but not on a grand scale. Kree DNA + radiation from thingamabob + human DNA = Captain Marvel.

Something like this gives her ample agency in her own origin story and as an added bonus is a good character moment, illustrating that her nature is to just react, often jumping headlong into a situation that might be beyond her control.

This is also one of the reasons I would like Carol to be extremely highly powered, but just not "Superman" highly powered. She works really well as an underdog, IMO.

 

[flickchick85]

Agreed. You make a very good point here.

I think it can be fixed (fixxxed, even... drumroll ) fairly easily.

Take the same origin scene I described and replace with the following...

Mar-Vell's admiration for Carol, and by extension, humanity suddenly overwhelms him and he decides to martyr himself to save humanity from immediate annihilation. He starts to "diffuse" the Kree Doomsday Device and screams at Carol to start running.

Carol being Carol, intervenes. Not unkindly, but yet extremely angered and betrayed, "You don't get to be the martyr here... ohhh, look at me saving the world. Like that cancels out years of spying... ALIEN spying!" She tackles Mar-Vell just as he succeeds in diffusing the doomsday thingamabob. Thingamabob still goes off, emitting radiation, but not on a grand scale. Kree DNA + radiation from thingamabob + human DNA = Captain Marvel.

Something like this gives her ample agency in her own origin story and as an added bonus is a good character moment, illustrating that her nature is to just react, often jumping headlong into a situation that might be beyond her control.

This is also one of the reasons I would like Carol to be extremely highly powered, but just not "Superman" highly powered. She works really well as an underdog, IMO.

Yeah, I like that. I had a similar scenario in my head in which Carol leads Mar-Vell and an infiltration team on a mission to diffuse the device and re-program it for the humans' use to defeat the Kree invaders, and at the end of their journey when the rest of their team has been lost and Mar-Vell informs her he's unable to reprogram it, Carol, in an act of self-sacrifice, picks up a weapon of one of the fallen Kree and fires it at the device to blow it (and the rest of the main Kree ship along with them) up. Mar-Vell just instinctively throws himself on top of her to protect her from the blast. That way Carol's responsible for what happens to her, and her fate is still directly tied to the bond she formed with Mar-Vell.

 

[Mike5575]

I think the important thing is what they do with the character after giving her superpowers. Also, don't give her the identical power set. As mentioned before, her human DNA mixed with Kree DNA gives her amazing powers never thought possible.

As far how powerful they make her, I hope she's uber strong and powerful. Considering the threat she's going to go up against, she's going to be an underdog regardless. I at least want her powers to put her on a class all by herself. Maybe a notch or two above Thor and Hulk's power levels.

I would also think it would be cool to see her fight Thor or Iron Man. I just think it would be cool. Not a straight out fight, but one of those "wow" moments that puts everything into perspective.

 

[flickchick85]

I agree that her power set should be unique from Mar-Vells, and that's why I feel like the Psyche-Magnetron (whatever it is) should stay - that's the variable that causes the difference. Whatever energy it gives off in the explosion, that's what makes her powers something beyond just Kree abilities.