Chapter 23 - "How To Stop An Exploding Man" - Discussion Thread 5/21/07

[Mysterio]

Now why he was able to catch Hiro's blade a couple of episode's back is a mystery to me (and to the writers as well, I think)

Hiro wasn't ready then. he was hesitant and reluctant.

 

[Mysterio]

Go shoot someone on the head and tell me if their brain pieces remain in their head.

I believe they both have the ability to regenerate any piece of body except their brain.

they've obviously regenerated the injured parts of their brains, but when the brain is destroyed, so is the person. Eden, Sylar's victims... the brain is the source of power. once the objects were removed from Claire and Peter, they healed - including their brains.

 

[Mysterio]

he needs a working brain to use his healing power, how does he exploding not throw a wrench into that plan?

because he doesn't explode. i never understood why it was (and is, i guess) assumed that Ted, Peter, or Sylar would explode and be destroyed.

 

[Marvin]

He doesn't need to regenerate, except from the fall. Think about it... did Ted have cancer? Did Ted burn himself everytime he created those energy balls? In the webcomics Ted even explodes, just a lot smaller. He can't be hurt by his own power, so neither can Peter.

good point Katsuro, never thought of it that way

not that i believe that's the explaination, but if there is one then theres no point in asking dumb questions

 

[Marvin]

I'm assuming it was assumed (by me and others)
because not only does peter

allude to the fact that he can only survive the explosion to the healing factor
but so does his brother and claire

and especially moma Petrelli

and they don't know it's in the air

 

[Marvin]

I'm sorry but this finale was blue-balling on the level of the Matrix Revolutions. So many contradictions and ridiculous conclusions plagued this episode. Here are the most glaring:

allow me to clear some things up for u

1) It's already been established that you don't need to kill someone to keep them from exploding. Claire accomplished this by knocking Ted out with a drug when he lost control of his power. Keep in mind that this is the same power that Peter has absorbed. Couldn't have Claire done the same thing?

bearing in mind that Claire can't possibly have the insight u seem to considering she hasn't really been watching the show and having discussions with other geeks on a weekly basis

plus last time around this kid had to sedate him

plus last time it technically was ted, who was more flaring as opposed to Peter, who seems to be having a meltdown. and even if that's not exactly what's happening, the mere thought that it could be...means that "all things aren't equal" as far as Claire's concerned.

have u ever seen what happens when Wolverine's hit with a tranquilliser?
his healing factor is a factor...it has to be a huge dosage otherwise he laughs it off...

sedation may not work on pete

and lastly...
how exactly does Claire Knock out a grown man exactly?

2) Peter mentions to Claire that she is the only one who can get close enough to stop him and yet Nathan walks right up to him.

more proof that Ted was flaring and discharging randomly...and peter was doing something else
(beyond tying to hold it all in)

The truth is, Claire is the only one who can survive prolonged exposure and not grow and arm on her face or have her skin melt...Nathan or anyone else can survive to a point...for arguments sake lets say for about the 25 seconds it takes to fly him into the atmosphere.

3) If these guys are really supposed to be "heroes", they suck at their job. Hiro could have finished the job but instead, Sylar lives. Nathan gave up his life needlessly. Claire did absolutely nothing except manage to NOT to be killed. Parkman went after a semi-god with a handgun. Nikki stood around and watched for the most part. Heroes? Hardly. Apparently, with great power comes lots of standing around and doing nothing.

Um?
the shows called heroes...
where does it say this is Captain America and Batman, and Superman with their 10plus(50plus) years of experience under their belts?
it's a show about normal people who can do abnormal things, if anything these people should have been running for their lives...

4) An empty NYC? I've walked around NYC (and Kirby Plaza) at all hours of the night and it certainly doesn't look like a ghost town. Are extras that expensive?

You've walked around there a few times at night, but I doubt u've been on a steady patrol of the area everynight... it's possible that theres a time where that place is empty, even if it's for 15 minutes. And as long as that possiblities open....
it may be a little contrived but it's not impossible

5) We're teased with a Peter/Sylar fight in Suresh's apartment. Then we're teased in the future episode. So what happens in the final episode of a 23 episode long story in which we've been following these two characters in their progress and power training? A vader grab, three punches, a parking meter to the face, and sword to the gut. Wha-? I realize that the show is on a budget but a little creativity can go a long way. A telekinetic battle woulda required just a little bit of wire work. Not that much to ask for considering that the entire season was building up to this confrontation.

it's plenty to ask for considering the average budget of a tv series, and how much effects, in this very episode no less, we've seen to this point..
on top of that there's just not enough time to dwell on more wire work and what not, if u wanna get through the rest of the plot...

personally i think they should have droped that generations preview and given the fans more of a battle...

6) When Candice's projection fades, shouldn't the illusion of how she looks fade as well. She clearly stated to Micah that she was, in reality, a big girl. Even in the voting booth, she makes it pretty clear that the form we see her in isn't her own.

She hinted, never stated...(for example; where do u get girl from?)
maybe she simply looks like candace.

The reality of the situation is that u don't know how her powers work, she's not mystique, who's knocked out and the game's over...
Prof X for example can make u think a certain thing for the rest of his and your life(and that includes when he's sleeping/having sex/and possibly even dead)

her suggestions may a actually be written on ur rom like brain untill she writes a new image on it...

7)How am I supposed to care about Molly's cryptic "scarier than sylar" line when Sylar was fairly easy to to take care of.

i don't know about u, but i've been watching all season, and he's not as easy as u make it seem..
it was circumstance that beat him this time...

but hey, if sylar was "Easy" than this new guy being greater than him...makes this new guy greater than easy...possibly even hard!

8) Maybe it was Sylar's plan all along to let Hiro kill him but couldn't we have seen something a little more believable than a five-step jog to stab Sylar? The guy stops bullets but he can't stop a short Japanese geek from walking up to him with a sword?

Cinematically, it's more like Sylars frozen in shock due to the fact that the vision of his death that he just seen(with a super-memory) is playing out right in front of him...
if anything that makes a lot of sense do the the fact that he has the reflexes to stop bullets

second, u don't know that hiro wasn't using his powers

lastly i honestly would have directed scene that way differently
but that's the most clear way to tell the story...

9) What purpose did Shaft play? Hey, Peter, you're gonna save the world with love! What's my power? Let's leave that really vague so the lazy writer of the show doesn't have to explain it. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Peter about to blow up NYC when Nathan's "love" saved everybody?

I personally hate when people chalk up the writers not giving us the info or answers we want and right away...to lazy writing...
it's a stylalistic approach...
leaving things open for interpretation is sometimes more effective

next you'll be asking whats this new villans name and powers...

And this is coming from a die-hard fan of the show. I don't think I've ever been this dissappointed in a series finale. This show promised so much only to deliver so little. Looks like the real genious behind this show were the staff writers and Jeph Loeb, not the creator - Kring. I always wondered how a schmaltzy TV writer could create such a great show. And now I get it. Up until now, he let everybody else do the work.

i agree about that last point...the writers probubly do a way better job than the creator
whose said himself that he hasn't touched comics

 

[Neptune]

Uh .. no she doesn't. Niki & the rest of the gang don't come out of the building til after Matt is lying against the wall after being shot back at. She doesn't see anything. As Suresh separates from the group to tend to Matt. She, Molly, DL & Micah go a few yards away. Not once does she glance back to see who is good or bad. After she lays down DL. She just walks over to join the fight. The telekinetic hold could be seen both ways. A hero holding a villain & vise versa.

Niki was with Molly. Molly knows who Sylar is.

Overall i gotta say i was a bit dissapointed. I expected so much more. Maybe a little too much. Although i was glad so see Niki finally kick some ass and using her ability. Favourite scene of the season finale: Hiro stabbing Sylar and saying "yatah". It gave me goosebumps t:

 

[3 Dev Adam]

I watched the episode for the sixth time. Still hard to believe that it ended in such a lame way. I guess that was the "boom" Sylar was talking about at the end of that episode.

Hiro in the past? Probably meeting his own father? Training to be future Hiro maybe? Hm. Not sure if it will work.

 

[maxrockatansky]

Marvin, I do get some of your points but I don't believe a conclusion to a 23 episode long sage should leave so many questions and what-if's, considering the previous episodes haven't really done this.

bearing in mind that Claire can't possibly have the insight u seem to considering she hasn't really been watching the show and having discussions with other geeks on a weekly basis

plus last time around this kid had to sedate him

plus last time it technically was ted, who was more flaring as opposed to Peter, who seems to be having a meltdown. and even if that's not exactly what's happening, the mere thought that it could be...means that "all things aren't equal" as far as Claire's concerned.

have u ever seen what happens when Wolverine's hit with a tranquilliser?
his healing factor is a factor...it has to be a huge dosage otherwise he laughs it off...

sedation may not work on pete

and lastly...
how exactly does Claire Knock out a grown man exactly?

Considering Claire's father has known about the possibility of Peter exploding, I find it hard to believe he couldn't have come up with a drug cocktail strong enough to knock him out (despite his healing factor) If you can knock out Wolverine and Claire, you certainly can knock out Peter. I just hate how all of the heroes automatically assumed that killing him was the only solution. If death stops him from exploding, wouldn't a temporary death do? Raming something into the back of his head and then pulling it out later? I just think previous episodes opened more possibilities other than flying him away or shooting him.

more proof that Ted was flaring and discharging randomly...and peter was doing something else
(beyond tying to hold it all in)

The truth is, Claire is the only one who can survive prolonged exposure and not grow and arm on her face or have her skin melt...Nathan or anyone else can survive to a point...for arguments sake lets say for about the 25 seconds it takes to fly him into the atmosphere.

I'll give you this one to a degree. But Ted did look a heckava lot like Peter when Ted first started losing control. But you still have a point and I can accept this one.

Um?
the shows called heroes...
where does it say this is Captain America and Batman, and Superman with their 10plus(50plus) years of experience under their belts?
it's a show about normal people who can do abnormal things, if anything these people should have been running for their lives...

Just because they don't have experience doesn't give them the ok to just sit around and watch. Which is what half of our heroes were doing during the final battle.

You've walked around there a few times at night, but I doubt u've been on a steady patrol of the area everynight... it's possible that theres a time where that place is empty, even if it's for 15 minutes. And as long as that possiblities open....
it may be a little contrived but it's not impossible

Maybe. Okay this one I can accept.

it's plenty to ask for considering the average budget of a tv series, and how much effects, in this very episode no less, we've seen to this point..
on top of that there's just not enough time to dwell on more wire work and what not, if u wanna get through the rest of the plot...

personally i think they should have droped that generations preview and given the fans more of a battle...

But the problem with this reasoning is that they really geared the audience up for this fight. If they don't have the budget to deliver on this then don't hype it up so much. The confrontation between Peter/Sylar/Hiro was built up so much that it was an immense let down for a lot of viewers. And like I said before, I'm sure there budgetary constraints could have allowed for a few more punches and wire work. I know I've seen plenty of cooler fights on youtube made by people with no budgets.

She hinted, never stated...(for example; where do u get girl from?)
maybe she simply looks like candace.

The reality of the situation is that u don't know how her powers work, she's not mystique, who's knocked out and the game's over...
Prof X for example can make u think a certain thing for the rest of his and your life(and that includes when he's sleeping/having sex/and possibly even dead)

her suggestions may a actually be written on ur rom like brain untill she writes a new image on it...

Okay, this explanation makes sense too. I'll give you this one.

i don't know about u, but i've been watching all season, and he's not as easy as u make it seem..
it was circumstance that beat him this time...

but hey, if sylar was "Easy" than this new guy being greater than him...makes this new guy greater than easy...possibly even hard!

I guess, for me, it felt like a cop-out. "Hey guys, since this episode can't deliver on the level we promised, we guarantee next season someone even scarier is going to come along" It felt like an idle threat. I've already waited an entire season to get dissappointed, why should I stick around to find out this villian really isn't scary either.

I didn't think Sylar proved to be a solid foe. Sure, he killed a lot of people but plenty of sick non-super power people have done that too. He did a vader grabe, stopped some bullets, and then stood there and watched as Hiro slammed a sword in him. Whoopee.

Cinematically, it's more like Sylars frozen in shock due to the fact that the vision of his death that he just seen(with a super-memory) is playing out right in front of him...
if anything that makes a lot of sense do the the fact that he has the reflexes to stop bullets

second, u don't know that hiro wasn't using his powers

lastly i honestly would have directed scene that way differently
but that's the most clear way to tell the story...

While I can agree that this is a possibility, you shouldn't have to be explaining it. This has been established as a fairly straight-foward show so leaving this Hiro/Sylar scene so vague and disjointed is a crime. Maybe Hiro was using his power. Maybe Sylar was shocked. Maybe DL was using Linderman's blood. Maybe Peter can't use two powers at once. Maybe a lot of things. But I just don't think I should have that many maybes. I don't mind this sort of thing when I'm watching a David Lynch film but this is a super hero show that's been building up to this.

I personally hate when people chalk up the writers not giving us the info or answers we want and right away...to lazy writing...
it's a stylalistic approach...
leaving things open for interpretation is sometimes more effective

next you'll be asking whats this new villans name and powers...

I usually do too. I've spent a lot of time defending Lost for this same thing. However, in this case, the scene seemed like a quick add on for absolutely no reason. It added nothing to the episode besides establishing that Shaft was a powered-being. Maybe. That, and Peter has love. Thanks, Shaft.

All in all, you made some great points but I just don't feel like the finale should have to be explained to such a die-hard fan. It's not like I'm some AICN talkback who hates everything. I just expected more as a reward for tuning in every damn week for a year.

 

[M.O.Steel]

BIg plot hole, not sure if it's been addressed already...

Peter had the ability to fly, why did he need Nathan???

I was SO saddened to see nathan die. In my opinion, he is the character that best played how a real person in the real world would deal with his power. and claire too.

 

[Sugarculted]

I think Peter can only mimic one power at a time. I think.


It isn't a big plot hole, he had to concentrate on suppressing his explosion, not flying.

 

[Caliber]

I think Peter can only mimic one power at a time. I think.


It isn't a big plot hole, he had to concentrate on suppressing his explosion, not flying.

Sylar was the only one on the show who seemed to use two powers at once.

 

[Sugarculted]

Heh. I love the fact that I've seen the whole series, before people have even seen the first episode on BBC2 here in the UK.

 

[Ghostvirus]

This thread is cracking me up! Some of the excuses that you all are coming up with to defend this show is priceless! Simply brilliant it tell ya! Like this one:

You've walked around there a few times at night, but I doubt u've been on a steady patrol of the area everynight... it's possible that theres a time where that place is empty, even if it's for 15 minutes. And as long as that possiblities open....

it may be a little contrived but it's not impossible

Simply awesom! I mean to make a case that the Heroes conveniently fought each other at just the right time when no one is around for a full city block in one of the most populated cities in the world! I just wish I had the much blind devotion.

This is only partial sarcasm I do envy some of you that can over look the blatantly huge holes that this show offers, & still be able to enjoy it. I myself am to jaded, & cynical.

 

[GL1]

??? Peter was having a meltdown... he can't hold it all in and fly at the same time... that's not a plot hole, that's logical writing.

This has been established as a fairly straight-foward show

What show have YOU been watching?

Temporarily killing him would only temproarily have fixed the problem, if that.

Nikki not only stepped in at a logical time (after she'd have found out what was going on), but she stepped out when Peter said he had it under control... and didn't interfere in the exploding issue... who sat around for no reason? Micah? Molly? They should have joined in?

And the Charles Deveaux scene sets up for Season 2 as well as making the Nathan-Peter team up moment extremely powerful, knowing that BOTH Deveaux and Angela were right... that's pretty cool...

I understand that them not making it clear if Hiro used his powers to kill Sylar, if Sylar underestimated Hiro or if Sylar let Hiro stab him... I understand that is a problem to some... understandably so...

I find it necessary for there to be a mystery regarding Sylar's survival and condition...

 

[MakeMineMarvel]

I think Sylar was dragged away, not that he escaped on his own. He's supposed to be dead after all, so I just assumed his body was removed for further study by persons unknown.

OK, so we've established that Peter couldn't fly away on his own while going nuclear because that would have been using two powers at once. I think the only thing that kind of disappointed me a bit was that the whole Peter/Sylar throwdown wasn't as great as it could have been. I realize that there are budget limitations on TV shows, but there really should have been more of a payoff in terms of Peter and Sylar using lots of different powers on each other, as well as more involvement by the other heroes present besides that one parking meter bashing from Nikki.

Still the best show on TV however.

Hmmm...

Wow, no one thinks that Uluru may have pulled Sylar down into the sewers, huh? Maybe I'm the only one that thinks so ...

Maybe not

 

[Marvin]

This thread is cracking me up! Some of the excuses that you all are coming up with to defend this show is priceless! Simply brilliant it tell ya! Like this one:




Simply awesom! I mean to make a case that the Heroes conveniently fought each other at just the right time when no one is around for a full city block in one of the most populated cities in the world! I just wish I had the much blind devotion.

This is only partial sarcasm I do envy some of you that can over look the blatantly huge holes that this show offers, & still be able to enjoy it. I myself am to jaded, & cynical.

it's one thing to mock the contrivity

it's another thing to label something as a plot hole

i wonder how it is u somehow manage to get over spidermans origin/ supermans origin/ the whole premise of lost, the list goes on and on(it ends with Pirates of the Caribean...or maybe fantastic four)
in fact u should run over to those forums right now and tell all those people how their wasting their lives and that their entire existence is based on a shame
one big fat contrived shame

fact is i've been down to city hall(here in toronto) at about 3 in the morning(not even sure that's not what time it is in the show) on numerous occasions and it's been butt empty apart from about 4 bums...

I'm not sure about this Kirby square, but it's hardly time square

what i find awesome(dude) is the amount of cynicism that has spawned out of no where about this show in it's last episode, I honestly don't even really like the show all that much, i just don't like people who hate stuff and don't even know why

 

[gambitfire]

they've obviously regenerated the injured parts of their brains, but when the brain is destroyed, so is the person. Eden, Sylar's victims... the brain is the source of power. once the objects were removed from Claire and Peter, they healed - including their brains.

I kinda disagree both brain wounds they have recieved where punctured wounds meaning the pieces are still in there just not attached.

I still believe a bullet wound would be fatal.

 

[Katsuro]

All these people questioning why Peter didn't fly off on his own obviously haven't been paying attention. Dont you remember the first time he went haywire (with Claude)? it was before he even had Ted's power. Somehow all those powers combined got jumbled up and he started going nuts. We saw his eyes go white, as if he was recalling Isaac's power. If i'm not mistaken he also started going invisible a little bit.

The explosion was just this happening again, only this time with a power that was more lethal. His powers were acting up, and this time he had a power that could've destroyed the city. He couldn't have flown away if he wanted to. He didn't have control over anything.

 

[Marvin]

peter says it himself actually

 

[Smirnoff]

A little late on this, but what a pathetic season finale..

 

[IAmHe9]

At the time I saw the episode I was pretty much amazed by it and thought it was a great way to end the season, but in retrospect, I have a few problems with it. I also have solutions for each one.

Problems:

1) The length: NBC promised us two hours earlier in the season, and all I get is a measly one hour just like any other monday night. What's so special about Jack Bauer and his everlasting fight against Islamic extremists anyway?

2) Peter vs. Sylar: Even in interviews, Kring has been hinting towards a huge confrontation between the two supermen of the show, calling the showdown in Mohinder's apartment and the Fire vs. Ice fight five years in the future 'teasers' (which they undoubtedly were). I hope to God that this isn't that big battle he was talking about, because if it was, it was pretty lame. I mean, all that hatred built up by the fans towards Sylar (even if you love the character, it's more of a 'the guy we love to hate' type thing) and in the end we get a handful of superpowered punches, and that's it? I mean, jeez, at least let Peter toss him around a little using TK. He just absorbs Niki's strength and wails on him a little (just a little!) and next thing we know Sylar's all ****ed up and goes Joker on us, (apparently) laughing about his, and everyone in NY's, impending doom. I understand why Peter wouldn't want to use Ted's power and vaporize the ****er right then and there, seeing as he's still afraid he's the bomb, but come on, at least launch him against a ****ing building or something. I know that if someone had repeatedly tried to slice off my niece's (and my) head, I'd give him a little more than what Peter did.

3) How easy it was for Hiro to stab Sylar: Huh? I mean, seriously, the best explanation I have for how Hiro literally ran up to a man who can stop bullets and stab him in the chest is that maybe Sylar was a bit dazed and confused by the beating he had just gotten from Peter (I mean, really, Peter was throwing punches with the strength of someone who could rip a portly man in half), or maybe he was distracted by his battle with Peter. Problem is, Zachary Quinto (who is usually very good at showing the audience what's going on in Sylar's head simply by his facial expressions and mannerisms) gives no indication of either (except blood and bruises), and the 'weakened by the Peter battle' explanation doesn't hold up for long, as Sylar proceeds to launch Hiro all the **** way across Kirby Plaza, even with a hole in his torso from which he is bleeding profusely.

4) Nathan having to fly Peter into the sky: For those of you claiming that Peter can't use his powers twice, I have two examples for you: Invisibility and telekinesis, once to save Claude from Bennet, Haitian, and their tazers, and another time to slide a drink his way at the bar in Niki's strip joint. I could understand the "focusing on holding it in" explanation, and Ventimiglia does seem to indicate that he's struggling greatly with holding the bomb in at first, but once Claire comes in with the gun and Nathan shows up, he basically acts as if he's having a normal conversation, only he's glowing and he looks a bit frightened. I understand that the "Save The Cheerleader, Save The World" arc had to end up making sense and it would be too obvious if she did the thing with Peter that she had previously done with Ted in her home, and that it was great on an artistic level for Nathan (Pasdar outdoes himself in this episode, IMO) to redeem himself at the end, but it just doesn't make logistic sense that Peter doesn't fly himself into an ocean or something.

Solutions:

1) The length: This one's easy. Just make the show longer. Come on, you guys can do it. You know you want to. Come May 2008, I expect a full turnaround here.

2) Peter vs. Sylar: Like one of the guys before me previously mentioned, having a better Peter vs. Sylar fight would not really have been a matter of budget. The show is bought and paid for with three car commercials. NBC is just being stingy or the creators aren't being too creative, or are being lazy. Watch the commentary for the show on nbc.com, and the entire final battle all they're doing is *****ing about the logistics of the scene and the tough schedule (they had to film it over several days - not continuously - in bits and pieces) and all that crap, leaving open the possibility that the fight was possibly much better in storyboard version than it ended up being. Seriously, a bit more wirework or a few more punches (maybe a couple of throws?) would've gone a long way.

3) How easy it was for Hiro to stab Sylar: The solution for this part is connected to the solution for part 2. Had Peter given Sylar more of an ass-whooping, or had he held him in a telekinetic, Vader-esque chokehold JUST AS Hiro arrived on the scene, it would have been MUCH more believable that a man who could stop bullets would get impaled by a person he saw coming.

4) Nathan having to fly Peter into the sky: As I said before, my problem with this doesn't have to do with this actually happening (I love Nathan's redemption and the unexpected use of the save the cheerleader crap), but the lack of explanation for it. Had someone that was aware of Peter's power absorption yelled 'fly!' and Peter responded 'I can't!', I would've been satisfied.

 

[Marvin]

1.Peter said he couldn't do anything

2.Sylar was shocked frozen due to the fact that the comic was right about his legacy being ended by a "little man"
-who knows what those punches did to sylars brain functions

3. Future ture Pete used two powers at once but future pete can do alot of things...just like future clark can do alot of things smallville clark can't.
his stopped the tasers with his tk, then flew claude away...that's hardly two powers at once

 

[CaptainGenerica]

Some lingering questions after the finale, and I hope this hasn't been covered earlier in the thread, but...

Where is the Haitian during all of this? He could've prevented Peter and Sylar from using their powers (unless the sheer number of powers they have would've been too much), although he probably wouldn't have, being loyal to Mama Petrelli and all.

But regardless, I'm curious as to what happened to him; he hasn't been seen for a couple episodes.


Also, largely unrelated: has it ever been established whether the Linderman/Petrelli/Nakamura/Deveaux cabal is connected to Bennet's "company"?

 

[Abaddon]

Linderman is the head of the company. Papa and Mama Petrelli are connected to Linderman himself. As is Charles Deveaux. Kaito Nakamura gave baby Claire to Bennet.