Christopher Nolan's Inception (Thread II)

[Solidus]

I think it was more assumed, maybe I explained it horribly but to a point that is what I meant about how the totems are something they can't replicate because they don't know what it's weight for feel is.

Leo's totem I see what your saying now, but to me it actually leads to the point in other ideas. But this is something you must think about. It's not Cobb's totem. It's Mal's. I believe Cobb's real totem is his wedding ring. I think there is depth to that itself.

And to me these things you are asking lead further to the questions that may never be answered. Is he in a dream? Yadda yadda. To me that intrigues more theories to as why that is. It is not his totem so right there that is interesting.

I think that leads to further discussion that I will another time have to delve into.

 

[Figs]

I saw that he has admitted it is an allegory for filmmaking and his own career. I like that he's admitting this aspect so people aren't left debating this part of it. The ambiguity about the plot should be debated, but the overall meaning of the film to Nolan should be known IMHO. Here's an article about it. Entertainment Weekly was able to squeeze some quotes out of Nolan regarding the filmmaking allegory:

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/07/24/b...movie-about-movies—and-the-mind-of-its-maker/

So I guess Saito was supposed to be the studio head?

 

[Brother Jack]

So I guess Saito was supposed to be the studio head?

Yep.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Very interesting. So perhaps it was intentional for Cobb to sort of resemble Nolan ?

 

[TNC9852002]

and what is Yusuf supposed to be?

 

[Brother Jack]

and what is Yusuf supposed to be?

The editor maybe? I dunno.

 

[scatterax]

when cobb is talking to the chemist and asks him to demonstrate that new sedative he goes under and it doesn't show his dream, just him waking up a second later, and than when he tries to spin the top he get's interupted and doesn't spin it again until the end. so it's possible that from that point on it's all his dream. but he could still wake up and do the mission for real. but his target might look completely different than in his dream cuz he never seas him til after that scene.

...or his kids just happened to wear the same close as b4 and the top toppled.

 

[Figs]

Very interesting. So perhaps it was intentional for Cobb to sort of resemble Nolan ?

I remember an interview a week or so ago where DiCaprio was saying that Nolan put part of himself in Cobb when writing the character.

 

[chaseter]

So I guess Saito was supposed to be the studio head?

And the moral of the story is to take studio heads into firefights so they get shot and don't mess with what you are doing. Now, Rothman...I want to make a movie about the war in Iraq. Care to join me? In fact, I want to make it about a superhero fighting the war in Iraq. Avi Arad and Laura Zirskin can come to.

 

[Ziggyman]

when cobb is talking to the chemist and asks him to demonstrate that new sedative he goes under and it doesn't show his dream, just him waking up a second later, and than when he tries to spin the top he get's interupted and doesn't spin it again until the end. so it's possible that from that point on it's all his dream. but he could still wake up and do the mission for real. but his target might look completely different than in his dream cuz he never seas him til after that scene.

...or his kids just happened to wear the same close as b4 and the top toppled.

That could be the case...but i think the whole point of that scene is for Saito to see the top...cuz I do believe that is the olny time Saito ever saw the top until limbo...



...as well...I think the ring can be seen not as Cobb's totem, but the audience's...cuz then why the hell would Cobb keep spinning it...

 

[Electrofarce]

INCEPTION STILL #1 !!!!!! t:

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=inception.htm

 

[Anita18]

I firmly believe that even if the other events in the film are just a dream, his wife really did commit suicide and he really is struggling to get over it. I could easily see the rest of the plot being a dream where his subconscious creates this elaborate therapy session. Bottom line is he's able to finally let go and that's all that matters. As Devin at CHUD said, even if it's a dream it doesn't take away from the emotional catharsis that Cobb experiences.

Yes. In my second viewing, the moment where Cobb wakes up on the plane really gets me, because you can feel he's a changed man. And then the editing later...

I realized that Nolan makes the ending such a punch to the gut because for the scenes leading up to it, he lets them play out like "Maaaaybe Cobb will get stuck here...yay he got Saito to remember to call! Oh crap he has to go through customs, maybe he'll get caught here! YAY he's free to go!"

And then for the last shot, it's "Oh, the top...is he still in reality? Have to see have to see....FUUUUUUUU! "

The thing that really disappointed me about Inception was the musical score. Save for the last 10-15 minutes of the movie (which was beautifully married to the visuals), Zimmer's score annoyed me. Too much electronics and atmosphere; not enough harmony. I realize that Nolan likes his films to have more textural scores and let the actors do the rest -- but really, the best directors let the composers do their own thing and go all out. That, combined with superb acting, is even better.

He did. Nolan didn't let Zimmer see the movie after he started to edit it, because he didn't want Zimmer to be influenced by the visuals or rhythm.

So Zimmer's score was sorta like shared dreaming in its own way. He apparently first saw the movie with the score together when it was all mixed and cut.

I figured that or that maybe the people in first class did have a shared dream. At the end it is interesting and can be viewed as many different ways. But after he wakes up, no one says anything, they look at each other in interesting ways. But no on ever talks to one another, and the way Cobb looks at all of them, it is interesting for sure.

It played out rather amusingly in my head the second time.

Arthur: Heyyyy, you're back! Can't believe it!

Ariadne: Knew you'd come back.

Saito: OMG I had the trippiest dream ever...

Cobb: WELL????

Saito: OH right!

I think the whole thing was a dream so...even the ending. The kids were exactly the same as when he left them, clothes and position so I think that is a very big argument against it being reality.

They're not. During Cobb's hallucinations, Philipa is just wearing the pink jumper. In the last scene, she's wearing a white t-shirt underneath it.

The difference is subtle (and intentional on Nolan's part, I'm sure), but it is DEFINITELY there.

 

[Figs]

And the moral of the story is to take studio heads into firefights so they get shot and don't mess with what you are doing. Now, Rothman...I want to make a movie about the war in Iraq. Care to join me? In fact, I want to make it about a superhero fighting the war in Iraq. Avi Arad and Laura Zirskin can come to.

Sounds great! Consider me signed up. t:

 

[Christopher Nolan]

interesting theories...

still think that it doesnt matter, whether the end was real or a dream. the most important think for cobb was that he could finally return to his children and look them in the face..

 

[chaseter]

Come on, who else was expecting the children to turn around and look really evil or dead and say "Daddy, why did you leave usssssssssssssssss?"

 

[Christopher Nolan]

Come on, who else was expecting the children to turn around and look really evil or dead and say "Daddy, why did you leave usssssssssssssssss?"

they asked him that qestion later...

 

[chaseter]

And then feasted on his soul.

 

[M.O.Steel]

However the one thing I did not understand about Leo's totem was the spinning aspect. All the other totems made since. Arthur's die had a specific weight, shape, and feel. Only he could know the exact feel of that die. But Leo's had the spinning thing going on. What I don't understand is how that works. Okay, so say he's in someone else's dream, it apparently won't stop spinning...but why? Surely the host dreamer would make the top abide by the laws of physics. The host dreamer wouldn't be able to make the die the perfect weight and shape if they've never touched it, but they should be able to control it's spinning. And if it's Leo's own dream, his mind could surely control when it spins and when it doesn't.

So basically, the spinning thing didn't make much sense really.

this was never said in the movie. no one ever claimed that the top that keeps on spinning forever in dream world in the movie.

actually, it makes sense, the problem is, for some reason, the audience, including myself at first, assigned correct and incorrect to the wrong aspects of real vs. dream.

the natural motion of the totem is what would happen in the dream. the architect uses real life physics to create it. but the totems do not move the way they are supposed to.

example 1: dice rolls randomly vs dice rolls exactly the same side
example 2: chess piece would topple over vs chess piece would move instead.
example 3: the top spins until it topples over vs unknown.

 

[Christopher Nolan]

then he will try another inception on his children...that he never left them..^^

 

[M.O.Steel]

The other interesting one I've seen is that he's on a business trip and invents the entire thing in his mind (other than the suicide scene) as a way to get over his wife's death. The key to the movie IMHO is the idea of him trying to get over his grief, so no matter what rabbit hole you go down I think this has to be taken into consideration. I firmly believe that even if the other events in the film are just a dream, his wife really did commit suicide and he really is struggling to get over it. I could easily see the rest of the plot being a dream where his subconscious creates this elaborate therapy session. Bottom line is he's able to finally let go and that's all that matters. As Devin at CHUD said, even if it's a dream it doesn't take away from the emotional catharsis that Cobb experiences.

but why would mal be sitting in the window in a mirrored apartment across from their apartment? so while they went to paris this year, she destroyed everything in their place, goes all the way to the other side of the building, rents or breaks into someone else's apartment, sits in the window, and jumps?

that was a dream too. there's no reason to believe mal is really even dead. she could just be a very mean evil ex-wife, and that's why she was the villain between leo getting to his kids.

 

[M.O.Steel]

I figured that or that maybe the people in first class did have a shared dream. At the end it is interesting and can be viewed as many different ways. But after he wakes up, no one says anything, they look at each other in interesting ways. But no on ever talks to one another, and the way Cobb looks at all of them, it is interesting for sure.

i don't think they did. leo was the only one who looked like he woke up from a dream. cilian murphy looks like he was wide awake and fresh. he didn't look like he just went to a crazy-ass dream. and neither did aurther or page.

leo was the only one in that plane that was dreaming the movie inception. it's an autobiography of nolan.t:

 

[Anita18]

but why would mal be sitting in the window in a mirrored apartment across from their apartment? so while they went to paris this year, she destroyed everything in their place, goes all the way to the other side of the building, rents or breaks into someone else's apartment, sits in the window, and jumps?

that was a dream too. there's no reason to believe mal is really even dead. she could just be a very mean evil ex-wife, and that's why she was the villain between leo getting to his kids.

It was a hotel room. She could have booked the room across the alley under a false name, you know.

 

[redfirebird2008]

but why would mal be sitting in the window in a mirrored apartment across from their apartment? so while they went to paris this year, she destroyed everything in their place, goes all the way to the other side of the building, rents or breaks into someone else's apartment, sits in the window, and jumps?

that was a dream too. there's no reason to believe mal is really even dead. she could just be a very mean evil ex-wife, and that's why she was the villain between leo getting to his kids.

Ahem, if she is trying to frame him it would explain why she would go to the trouble of it. Besides, if he was in the same room with her he could stop her from jumping.

 

[antsman41]

It was a hotel room. She could have booked the room across the alley under a false name, you know.

I always figured it was like that apartment/hotel room from Taken, it was shaped like a U. They are pretty normal in England/Paris/etc...

Just imagine a different layout but it gets my point across...

 

[bane]

I'm wondering if the shoe Mal dropped was deliberately CGI(Nolan subconsciously telling us it was a dream)?That shoe looked fake as hell!