Cinematic Civil War:MCU vs DCCU

[Marvin]

And... Again, aggro teenage nerds care about who was first or other unimportant crap. Honestly ask yourself why it matters? In comics the simple facts are there wouldn't be a Marvel universe if there wasn't a DC one first... But who cares? Really... Who cares? Both companies have great, legendary characters that now MILLIONS of people enjoy, and the majority really don't care that DC characters came first. This is "debate" is an argument for the sake of arguing. It's exhibit A in most people's case that this community is made up of pedants that feel the need to have rhetorical knife fights for no good God damned reason.

I asked this question earlier, apparently whomever inspired the other get's points. Even in a discussion about which is simply doing it better and such. Seems pointless.
Meh, well said either way.

 

[ernesth100]

With the BvS trailer coming soon we'll finally having something more to discuss.

 

[Infinight888]

I asked this question earlier, apparently whomever inspired the other get's points. Even in a discussion about which is simply doing it better and such. Seems pointless.
Meh, well said either way.

When the debate started, we were discussing whether The Dark Knight was as much of a "game changer" as the MCU for comic book movies. Then it veered off course epically.

 

[DA_Champion]

WB just hired Patty Jenkins to direct Wonder Woman. She was previously fired by Marvel due to creative differences, she was replaced by Alan Taylor who ended up directing Thor 2.

Lol @ WB trying to be *******s. I enjoy seeing large corporations fight.

When does Edgar Wright get a job with WB?

Some thoughts:

1) According to Faraci, the creative difference is that Zack Snyder wanted the WW film set during the Crimean War, and Michelle MacLaren wanted it set during WW1.

I wonder what the relative pros and cons are? They're both interesting periods for a superhero movie to be set, I would have been happy with either one.

2) I've felt that Marvel's Thor 2 is one of the worst movies I've ever seen. I've never know if this was due to Marvel, which fired Patty Jenkins, or Alan Taylor the novice director. Based on how awful Terminator 5 looks, it might have been due to Taylor.

 

[I Am The Knight]

"Hey, you're a woman, come direct this movie about a woman!"

 

[DA_Champion]

Krypton,

I find the question of inluence to be intellectually interesting. Greater ideas have more influence, and tracing influence is an interesting way to measure the greatness of ideas.

I'm not interested in the fanboy posts of "my corporation is greater than yours because it's had more influence". I don't find that interesting.

 

[DA_Champion]

"Hey, you're a woman, come direct this movie about a woman!"

Women are greatly discriminated against in Hollywood.

Therefore, hiring the best woman available is actually a solid prescription for good results.

 

[Tony Stark]

If WB did exactly what you stated, that can hopefully make a good JL, BvS movie, etc, that doesn't make the DCCU = MCU. They are piggy backing their characters on Batman/Superman saying "Hey we have other superheros in our universe as well" Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern aren't A list characters like Batman, Superman. If they were truly "iconic" we would have gotten successful movies from them by now with better treatment from WB. They need to build them up from scratch as well

Have a successful Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, Shazam, SS, Cyborg movie than there is an argument.

And there's the rub. I think BvS will be successful. To what level I can't say, but there's no denying the icon status of the character, and the curiosity factor to see them on the big screen together for the first time.

Going beyond that, by casting WW, Aquaman, Flash, Shazam, Cyborg, now they are banking future movies that haven't been written yet on what will undoubtedly be cameo appearances in BvS.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Women are greatly discriminated against in Hollywood.

Therefore, hiring the best woman available is actually a solid prescription for good results.

I'm just surprised that they were able to find a replacement virtually 2 days after the original director left. It's like they just looked at an excel sheet with a list of female directors and picked Jenkins. I personally don't care if a man or woman directs this WW film.

Then again, it's very possible that they knew they had to replace McClaren and had been in talks with Jenkins for a while now.

 

[hafizbat]

In all fairness I just wanted to make a place where we could have civilized debates and comparisons/contrasts on the state of both Cinematic Universe's.

And that's what this thread was, before it was derailed by various posters of various biases. But that happens to every thread. I just hope this particular one doesn't get closed, because whether some like it or not, there are posters who want to compare the DCCU and MCU.

It'd be real sad if we aren't even capable of comparing the MCU and DCU without bigotry and immaturity causing the thread to be shut down...

On the other hand, people who come in here just to claim this discussion is only about "seeing who has shinier toys" are guilty of suppressing healthy debate in favor of an "EVERYTHING IS AWESOME" mentality, which is juvenile and just as immature (if not as provocative) as fans who become religious about a company. It's perfectly fine to compare and prefer/not prefer things...it's natural, even more so when dealing with things as mirrored as Marvel and DC.

 

[DA_Champion]

I'm just surprised that they were able to find a replacement virtually 2 days after the original director left. It's like they just looked at an excel sheet with a list of female directors and picked Jenkins. I personally don't care if a man or woman directs this WW film.

Then again, it's very possible that they knew they had to replace McClaren and had been in talks with Jenkins for a while now.

I assume that Patty Jenkins was already on the shortlist when they hired MacLaren. I don't think they made an other search. They just want to the search they had already made.

Personally, I do care that Hollywood and other industries hire more women. I would like to live in a world with more representation and less discrimination.

 

[hafizbat]

2) I've felt that Marvel's Thor 2 is one of the worst movies I've ever seen.

....that's pretty harsh. Just a few pages ago you were talking about how the more movies you watch the more perspective you gain...hard to believe you've watched many if Thor 2 is one of the worst you've ever seen.

 

[I Am The Knight]

I assume that Patty Jenkins was already on the shortlist when they hired MacLaren. I don't think they made an other search. They just want to the search they had already made.

Personally, I do care that Hollywood and other industries hire more women. I would like to live in a world with more representation and less discrimination.

I agree that women should get more opportunities. I just don't necessarily agree with the "WW has to be directed by a woman" mentality and if Jenkins didn't get the gig before in favor of MaClaren, what makes her the best candidate for the director's chair now, I wonder?

 

[hafizbat]

I agree that women should get more opportunities. I just don't necessarily agree with the "WW has to be directed by a woman" mentality and if Jenkins didn't get the gig before in favor of MaClaren, what makes her the best candidate for the director's chair now, I wonder?

She doesn't have creative differences.

 

[DA_Champion]

....that's pretty harsh. Just a few pages ago you were talking about how the more movies you watch the more perspective you gain...hard to believe you've watched many if Thor 2 is one of the worst you've ever seen.

There's actually no contradiction at all. I'm allowed to have a different opinion. There are 10 different Marvel films, so I'm allowed up to 10 different opinions, maybe less since some of them are very similar, but certainly more than 1 opinion.

 

[DA_Champion]

I agree that women should get more opportunities. I just don't necessarily agree with the "WW has to be directed by a woman" mentality and if Jenkins didn't get the gig before in favor of MaClaren, what makes her the best candidate for the director's chair now, I wonder?

Given the enormous discrimination against women in Hollywood, they probably have a long list of directors that could take over. I think they should consider them for other films. Did you know that no Hollywood film with a budget exceeding 100 million has ever been directed by a woman. The closest is Frozen, which is animated and was in fact co-directed.

That means that there are 10 or 20 blockbusters a year for which Hollywood simply picks the best man for the job, and ignores the women candidates. In 2017, there will be 19/20 blockbusters for which Hollywood picks the best man for the job, and 1/20 blockbuster for which Hollywood picks the best woman ... is it really sensible that we complain about the 1?

 

[hafizbat]

There's actually no contradiction at all. I'm allowed to have a different opinion. There are 10 different Marvel films, so I'm allowed up to 10 different opinions, maybe less since some of them are very similar, but certainly more than 1 opinion.

You certainly are, my friend. I'm just saying it's hard to believe that Thor 2 is really one of the worst movies you've ever seen, assuming you've seen an average amount of movies in your life thus far, or perhaps more since you implied that you've seen many.

Perhaps you meant among CBMs? That wouldn't be nearly as hard to believe. Then again, there are more than a handful of atrocious CBMs out there as well.

 

[DA_Champion]

You certainly are, my friend. I'm just saying it's hard to believe that Thor 2 is really one of the worst movies you've ever seen, assuming you've seen an average amount of movies in your life thus far, or perhaps more since you implied that you've seen many.

Perhaps you meant among CBMs? That wouldn't be nearly as hard to believe. Then again, there are more than a handful of atrocious CBMs out there as well.

It's one of the three worst experiences I've had in a theatre, along with V for Vendetta and Contagion. It was bad for different reasons. I must have seen a few hundred movies in theatres, I don't know. I started at age 9 and now I'm 31. At home, or at friends houses, I've seen worse movies like Waterboy with Adam Sandler, and Battlefield Earth, those often knock me out though so I don't hate those movies so much.

As an aside, when people write that MoS is one of the worst experiences they've had watching a movie, I don't lecture them that they should watch more movies.

Anyway, Thor 2 is definitively the worst of the MCU films. I used to think the problems were Marvel's fault, but based on the Terminator Genysis previews I might be wrong about that. If so, that removes the blackest mark from their record imo.

 

[hafizbat]

It's one of the three worst experiences I've had in a theatre, along with V for Vendetta and Contagion. It was bad for different reasons. I must have seen a few hundred movies in theatres, I don't know. I started at age 9 and now I'm 31. At home, or at friends houses, I've seen worse movies like Waterboy with Adam Sandler, and Battlefield Earth, those often knock me out though so I don't hate those movies so much.

As an aside, when people write that MoS is one of the worst experiences they've had watching a movie, I don't lecture them that they should watch more movies.

Anyway, Thor 2 is definitively the worst of the MCU films. I used to think the problems were Marvel's fault, but based on the Terminator Genysis previews I might be wrong about that. If so, that removes the blackest mark from their record imo.

Interesting. It wasn't my intent to "lecture" you about watching more movies. Apologies if it came off that way. I completely respect your right to have a strong opinion on Thor 2.

 

[Flint Marko]

Thor 2 is far from the worst movies I've ever seen but I'm not going to vehemently defend it. It's definitely in the bottom rung of the MCU, however I do think it's better than TIH and Iron Man 2.

 

[Tony Stark]

I'd rank Thor TDW as the worst of the MCU films, but I think it's a million times better than Green Lantern, Elektra or either of the Fantastic Four films.

 

[DA_Champion]

I'd rank Thor TDW as the worst of the MCU films, but I think it's a million times better than Green Lantern, Elektra or either of the Fantastic Four films.

I enjoyed Elektra when I watched it but I was less of a "film critic" then.
Green Lantern I'm never going to bother defending. It was bad in all respects, I don't see how something so bad could be made.
Fantastic Four, I don't get the hate. I thought they were ok, but see my comments on Elektra.

I enjoyed the scene in The Silver Surfer where the military base people tell the Mr. Fantastic that he can't look at the surfboard. A minute later, Dr. Doom asks to look at the surfboard, and they're like "yeah sure come take a look, would you like some coffee with that as well kind sir?" I thought that was a fun scene.

 

[Spiderine]

It's better than Wolverine Origins, Superman Returns, and Hulk IMO as well.

 

[DA_Champion]

Hulk is the most underrated comic book film, or at least tied with Watchmen for the award.

 

[hafizbat]

Yeah, I'll always have a little place in my heart for Hulk 2003. It actually felt like more of a pure Hulk movie than TIH, imo. I like Bana, Hulk looked like he was ripped out of the comics, the CGI was pretty good, the desert stuff was cool, they captured the angst of Bruce Banner better than TIH, and it was just a pretty good movie overall. Nothing spectacular, but not bad either.