Contest of Marvels II Thread 4

[hippy fascist]

The thing is, Pagan had The Vision put his fist through his heart, and it still didn't kill him. Really, to think Mach IV could even stand a chance against him is as crazy as Jesse Bedlam beating Gamora.

DOH!!!!

but at the end of the day people will makethe choices they make...i mean in what world could famine beat lady deathstrike

 

[Phaedrus45]

but at the end of the day people will makethe choices they make...i mean in what world could famine beat lady deathstrike

Why, in a perfect world, of course. t:

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Super Adaptoid
Holocaust
Apocalypse
Mach IV

 

[Iceman]

Super Adaptoid
Holocaust
Apocalypse
Pagan

 

[Phaedrus45]

Final Results:

Super Adaptoid beat Murmur 13-2
Holocaust beat Maximus 14-1
Apocalypse beat Stature 13-2
Mach IV currently beating Pagan 9-6

 

[Phaedrus45]

BRACKET 7,

Match 13:

Dusk III (ZOKEN) bio



vs.

Hornet III(ZOKEN) bio

Match 14:

Shathra (DARKHELLRIDER) bio



vs.

Madman (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio

 

[Phaedrus45]

BRACKET 8,

Match 13:

Star-Lord (PHAEDRUS45) bio

vs.

Ahab (ICEMAN/PSYLOCKE) bio



Match 14:

Her (WIEGEABO) bio

vs.

Ravage (POWDERMAN) bio

 

[Phaedrus45]

Location:

Empire State University (ESU) is a fictional university in the Marvel Comics Universe. It is located somewhere in New York City, America. Many Marvel Comics characters, especially those associated with Spider-Man, have either attended or worked at the university.

(It's a Saturday. Very little students, classes are closed, and you might have the stray janitor or kids in the library.)

 

[Phaedrus45]

Star-Lord vs. Ahab:

A better bio of Star-Lord can be found here:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/starlor1.htm

In this bio, it states:

*He can fly through air or in space, presumably another attribute of his costume. He possesses enhanced healing and uses personal energy shields.

*He wielded the element gun, which can generate and manipulate the four ancient elements: Earth, air, fire, and water.

*In addition, Star-Lord is highly athletic, a skilled marksman and swordsman, and proficient at hand-to-hand combat.

*Star-Lord later received a number of cybernetic implants, including his left eye, which allows him to see all energy spectrums, as well as a memory chip in his brain, which gives him 100% recall.

Ahab's biography states:

Powers: None (cyborg), but his lances are somehow psionic in nature and cause whoever they hit to feel pain, die, or serve him.

A better bio states:

Ahab can generate powerful energy harpoons that are formed from, and attached to, his own life force. A hit from one of these harpoons can kill or seriously injure the target, and anyone who attempts to grab a harpoon gets burned. Each harpoon is keyed to its target's genetic structure, and cannot be moved or deflected by energy; it only stops when it strikes its target, or a close blood relative thereof.
Ahab is a cyborg. His limbs are mostly of artificial construction and presumably this makes him superhumanly strong. So far he has found no need to engage in hand-to-hand combat due to his ability to use ranged attacks and giant androids.

I will point out that he did become Famine, but this version was not listed as that character; so, any powers gotten from Apocalypse isn't allowed. (After all, we already have two Famine characters in this contest, and they were both labeled as such. Ahab wasn't.)

So, with the above descriptions, it's evident that Star-Lord simply has to stay away from Ahab's energy harpoons. With his energy shields, flight, and excellent reflexes, that won't be too difficult. And, with the use of his element gun, Ahab will simply be taken out of the equation early on. Ahab won't be able to hide, for Star-Lord can see any energy spectrums, which Ahab's cybernetics will be giving off. With Star-Lord's ability to recall information 100%, he'll know how to defeat Ahab and take him down quickly.

Winner = Star-Lord

 

[Zoken]

I'll Take Dusk, whoever wants to can claim Hornet for this.

Dusk vs. Hornet.

At first thought, Dusk is at a disadvantage as Hornet's suit give him strength and endurance. HOWEVER, Dusk is capable of teleportation without strain, and at a thought. She has shown to be able to teleport from the time Ricochet was half way down the building and the ground. she can also sense Eddie (as she was able to sense when he was being threatened in the sewers). so she can know when he is coming. also the fact that she is dead means she doesn't give off body heat and Eddie can't track her easily. she can easily blend in with ESU students, any knot she can jump into by ditching the costume. Eddie however is easily identifiable by his palsied arm if he tried the same thing. the layout gives neither of them an advantage as they are both students.

 

[Iceman]

OPENING DEBATE: AHAB Vs STAR LORD

From various bios:

Ahab can generate powerful energy harpoons that are formed from, and attached to, his own life force. A hit from one of these harpoons can kill or seriously injure the target, and anyone who attempts to grab a harpoon gets burned. Each harpoon is keyed to its target's genetic structure, and cannot be moved or deflected by energy; it only stops when it strikes its target, or a close blood relative thereof.

Ahab is a cyborg. His limbs are mostly of artificial construction and presumably this makes him superhumanly strong. So far he has found no need to engage in hand-to-hand combat due to his ability to use ranged attacks and giant androids.

Powers/Abilities:Star-Lord wore a costume that enabled him to survive in space. It is possible that the costume has actually altered his physical structure, as he does not need to wear any helmet, or any form of life support to survive the nearly absolute zero, airless vacuum. He can fly through air or in space, presumably another attribute of his costume. He possesses enhanced healing and uses personal energy shields. In the event that he were injured beyond his own ability to recover, Ship could administer emergency medical or surgical care.
He wielded the Element Gun, which can generate and manipulate the four ancient elements: earth, air, fire, and water.

In addition, Star-Lord is highly athletic, a skilled marksman and swordsman, and proficient at hand-to-hand combat. After overcoming his lifetime of hatred, Star-Lord took a vow to never take another life unless absolutely necessary.
His greatest asset is his partner and would-be lover, Ship.
Star-Lord later received a number of cybernetic implants, including his left eye, which allows him to see all energy spectrums, as well as a memory chip in his brain, which gives 100% recall.

I am certainly not going to underestimate this opponent so will attempt to address how Ahab will deal with Star Lord’s numerous strengths below:

* Star-Lord’s space suit might provide some protection against Ahab’s physical assaults but there is no reason why it would prevent the energy harpoons from locking on to his genetic structure, reaching him and doing critical damage.

* Star-Lord’s powers of flight are not particularly useful within the confined location of the university. They may help him evade but if he chooses to evade, he is distracted from mounting any attacks and is on the path to defeat as the harpoons are like homing missiles with unlimited fuel. If he uses his flight to approach Ahab he will be unable to avoid the harpoons at close range and the fight will be over quickly.

* Star-Lord has a level of enhanced healing which will be useful against any other non critical attack that Ahab uses aside from his harpoons. Even one harpoon can kill/cause critical damage.

* Star-Lord has the ability to generate energy shields which he could use in an attempt to deflect Ahab’s harpoons. This would not work as the harpoons "cannot be moved or deflected by energy".

* Ahab's cyborg body should be able to resist the effects of Star-Lord’s element gun for the short amount of time it takes for his more accurate harpoons (that never miss) to incapacitate Star-Lord (unless Star-Lord chooses to evade as discussed above).

* While Star-Lord is a skilled marksman, Ahab’s harpoons will lock onto his genetic structure and therefore have zero chance of missing, especially as they cannot be moved or deflected by energy.

* Star-Lord’s skill as a swordsman will not come in useful as this will be a projectile battle carried out from distance. Whoever comes in close is taking a huge risk and will struggle to avoid getting hit first at point blank range. If it comes down to it, Ahab’s presumed super strength from his cyborg body will also offer considerable defence. However, my proposal does not include the possibility of a close range encounter so this defence should probably be discounted.

* Star-Lord is athletic and adept at hand to hand combat. In fact Ahab is untested in this area as his ranged attacks and giant androids (I haven't researched this particular area and will only bother if this debate continues further so discount it from my current argument ) have always taken care of battle for him.

* Star-Lord has taken a vow never to take another life unless absolutely necessary. In this fight I would suggest that when it comes to it, he will be prepared to break this vow as he cannot afford to wait until it becomes necessary. However, it will still be present in his mind and will cause the moment of hesitation that is crucial in a tight battle.

* Star-Lord has the benefit of cybernetic implants. Ahab, being a cyborg, is far more developed in this area.

* Star-Lord can see all energy spectrums. This is undeniably useful and means that Ahab cannot hide. I will make no reference to Ahab trying to hide in any future argument.

* Star-Lord has a memory chip in his brain that allows 100% recall. This would most certainly become useful if the fight was going to last for days. However, in a fight that will only last as long as Ahab's deadly harpoons can be evaded, short term memory is good enough to compete on an even basis.

FINAL NOTE - A testament to Ahab's uberness:

He managed to convert both Cyclops and the Invisible Woman into Hounds, and to effectively kill the combined forces of the original X-Factor, the remnants of the X-Men, the New Mutants and the Fantastic Four.

It took the power of Franklin Richards to revive the others and eventually take this guy down. Star-Lord is nowhere near that league.

WINNER = AHAB

 

[wiegeabo]

Her vs Ravage

This is one massive showdown. On one side is someone with the Hulk's powers, but possibly more so. And his genius level intellect intact. On the other is the female equivalent of Adam Warlock, with her own strength and durability, as well as being able to wield cosmic power. And neither would know anything about the other.

In a face to face confrontation, I don't think the university would survive. Their powers would level the buildings as they tried to take each other out. If Ravage's power grows like the Hulk's, then he might have the edge, if it wasn't for Her's other powers, like being invulnerable to all but the most severe attacks. Severe enough to destroy parts of her body (which she can heal from if she can form her cocoon).

First, Her can transmute matter. Meaning she could turn the air around Ravage's head into something durable like Adamantium, blinding him, possibly suffocating him, and reducing his effectiveness in the fight.

Or, if she was feeling rather vicious and saw danger to others (even though they would probably run away upon seeing the 'Hulk"), she may just transmute parts of his body.

Her bio also says that she was able to knock the Thing 7/10ths of a mile away. If she did that to Ravage, he'd be knocked off the battlefield. End of fight.

Now, the is one clear advantage for Ravage, and that is prep-time. He is a physicist, and will be at a school. If their is time, he may be able to come up with something when the battle starts. But that's only if Her gives him time, and if he power to fire blasts and transmute matter won't save her. If he has the resources he could possibly build something and bring it into the fight. But it's doubtful, and it would still have to get around all of Her's powers. Even a surprise attack may not be enough.

There may not be much of a university standing afterwards, but this fight will go to Her and not 'him'.


Her wins

 

[Phaedrus45]

Rebuttal:

http://imageshack.us

* Star-Lord’s powers of flight are not particularly useful within the confined location of the university. They may help him evade but if he chooses to evade, he is distracted from mounting any attacks and is on the path to defeat as the harpoons are like homing missiles with unlimited fuel. If he uses his flight to approach Ahab he will be unable to avoid the harpoons at close range and the fight will be over quickly.

The thing is, this fight will be taken in-doors. Ahab's harpoons, if you read his appearances in the four annuals from this versions appearances, are only used when he has a chance to throw it long distances. A school with hallways and lots of rooms won't give him much of a chance to set up and use his weapon. The way to beat Ahab is hand-to-hand combat.

* Star-Lord has a level of enhanced healing which will be useful against any other non critical attack that Ahab uses aside from his harpoons. Even one harpoon can kill/cause critical damage.

* Star-Lord has the ability to generate energy shields which he could use in an attempt to deflect Ahab’s harpoons. This would not work as the harpoons "cannot be moved or deflected by energy".

But, again, Ahab needs room to throw his harpoon. Also, as his bio says, Ahab is used to using lackeys to do his deeds; thus, making it able to have his opponent distracted to throw his harpoon without them being aware. You see many instances where Ahab is engaged in hand to hand combat with someone, like Beast, and he's not faring that well.

* Star-Lord’s skill as a swordsman will not come in useful as this will be a projectile battle carried out from distance. Whoever comes in close is taking a huge risk and will struggle to avoid getting hit first at point blank range. If it comes down to it, Ahab’s presumed super strength from his cyborg body will also offer considerable defence. However, my proposal does not include the possibility of a close range encounter so this defence should probably be discounted.

Actually, it will come into effect. With no room, and Star-Lord's ability to see Ahab's energy spectrums as he nears him, Ahab won't stand a chance to throw his harpoon. The environment totally works to Star-Lord's advantage.

* Star-Lord is athletic and adept at hand to hand combat. In fact Ahab is untested in this area as his ranged attacks and giant androids (I haven't researched this particular area and will only bother if this debate continues further so discount it from my current argument ) have always taken care of battle for him.

And, this is something that really needs stressing. Ahab's lackey's do all his work for him, so he can sneak attack from long range a harpoon attack. Ahab won't have the benifit of his androids or getting off a long-range attack.

* Star-Lord has taken a vow never to take another life unless absolutely necessary. In this fight I would suggest that when it comes to it, he will be prepared to break this vow as he cannot afford to wait until it becomes necessary. However, it will still be present in his mind and will cause the moment of hesitation that is crucial in a tight battle.

Many heroes don't take human life, and it doesn't effect the outcome of a battle.

* Star-Lord has the benefit of cybernetic implants. Ahab, being a cyborg, is far more developed in this area.

Actually, the only thing (as the Official Handbook states) that Ahab's cyborg body does is give him an enhanced strength and durability. That's it. Definitely not "far more developed." It can be said that Star-Lord's cybernetics are far more advanced, though.

Plus, I point out from his bio:

Powers: None (cyborg), but his lances are somehow psionic in nature and cause whoever they hit to feel pain, die, or serve him.

He has no powers associated with his bionics, unlike Star-Lord. Without his harpoon, Ahab is pretty worthless as a character...and, in a closed area, Ahab will not be able to do much at all.

FINAL NOTE - A testament to Ahab's uberness:

It took the power of Franklin Richards to revive the others and eventually take this guy down. Star-Lord is nowhere near that league.

But, a more important note about his supposed "uberness" is the fact that Ahab had a vast horde of androids to attack his targets. He didn't do well in hand-to-hand combat.

Winner = Star-Lord

 

[Iceman]

RESPONSE: AHAB Vs STARLORD

Firstly I’ll assume that paragraphs that haven’t been quoted from my debate are points that have been accepted and will remain uncontested. Just to be clear these include:

* that Star-Lord’s space suit would not offer protection against Ahab’s harpoons
* that his skill as a marksman is inferior to the accuracy of Ahab’s harpoons that lock onto genetic signatures
* that Star-Lord’s element gun is inferior to Ahab’s harpoons
* that the 100% recall function will not be a factor in this battle

The thing is, this fight will be taken in-doors. Ahab's harpoons, if you read his appearances in the four annuals from this versions appearances, are only used when he has a chance to throw it long distances. A school with hallways and lots of rooms won't give him much of a chance to set up and use his weapon. The way to beat Ahab is hand-to-hand combat.

The point responded to was intended only to illustrate that Star-Lord’s flight would not come in useful to this fight.

You say the fight will be taken indoors but you forget to explain how or why. Obviously Star-Lord can choose to go indoors but Ahab, being far superior than Star–Lord at ranged battle will not be stupid enough to follow him. Star-Lord will merely be putting himself in an unnecessarily vulnerable position, making it almost impossible to evade the psionic harpoons which will pass easily through the walls of the building.

But, again, Ahab needs room to throw his harpoon. Also, as his bio says, Ahab is used to using lackeys to do his deeds; thus, making it able to have his opponent distracted to throw his harpoon without them being aware. You see many instances where Ahab is engaged in hand to hand combat with someone, like Beast, and he's not faring that well.

These lackeys help when he is facing (and killing) the combined might of the Fantastic Four, the original X-Factor, the remaining X-Men and the New Mutants (not to mention going up against Franklin Richards). Against a sole opponent, they are not required. One harpoon will kill or critically injure Star-Lord and Ahab can throw this and get a genetic lock at the very beginning of the fight.

Actually, it will come into effect. With no room, and Star-Lord's ability to see Ahab's energy spectrums as he nears him, Ahab won't stand a chance to throw his harpoon.

If Star-Lord wants to come in close, then firstly you are admitting a lack of confidence that he can take the fight from range and is therefore being forced to come in close. Secondly, how will he avoid the deadly, genetically locked harpoon at point blank range before the close range fight begins?

Being able to see energy spectrums is useful but it can't stop Ahab from throwing his harpoon.

The environment totally works to Star-Lord's advantage.

For someone who can fly in space to be limited to the confines of university grounds (and in particular within buildings as you suggest) would seem to be a big disadvantage.

And, this is something that really needs stressing. Ahab's lackey's do all his work for him, so he can sneak attack from long range a harpoon attack. Ahab won't have the benifit of his androids or getting off a long-range attack.

He needs no assistance when taking on a lone individual. All he has to do is throw a psionic harpoon which will itself lock onto Star-Lord’s genetic signature. Star-Lord has no way of blocking, diverting or slowing the missile (and if you insist on him entering the buildings, he also has no means of temporarily evading).

Many heroes don't take human life, and it doesn't effect the outcome of a battle.

Star-Lord isn’t your typical hero. He took many lives and now feels extreme remorse. Spider-man readers will know how infuriating it is when he loses fights due to pangs of conscience from the burden he carries from having been involved in causing death and the worry of repeating his mistake. Star-Lord’s problem follows a similar principle but is magnified due to the number of deaths involved. Any hesitation can be the difference between victory and defeat.

Actually, the only thing (as the Official Handbook states) that Ahab's cyborg body does is give him an enhanced strength and durability. That's it. Definitely not "far more developed." It can be said that Star-Lord's cybernetics are far more advanced, though.

Plus, I point out from his bio:

Powers: None (cyborg), but his lances are somehow psionic in nature and cause whoever they hit to feel pain, die, or serve him.

He has no powers associated with his bionics, unlike Star-Lord.

The advanced cybernetics you refer to for Star-Lord include nothing significant other than the memory chip in his brain giving 100% recall and his cybernetic left eye giving the ability to see all spectrums, both of which I have already acknowledged separately as possible advantages. You did not contest my assertion that the 100% recall would not be an advantage and I conceded that the ability to see all spectrums would mean that Ahab would not be able to hide at any time during the fight.

Without his harpoon, Ahab is pretty worthless as a character...and, in a closed area, Ahab will not be able to do much at all.

How powerful is Xavier without his psionic powers? Actually a hell of a lot less powerful than this cyborg with enhanced strength and durability.

Also, as I have said, only Star-Lord will be in the enclosed area as Ahab has no reason to follow him.

But, a more important note about his supposed "uberness" is the fact that Ahab had a vast horde of androids to attack his targets. He didn't do well in hand-to-hand combat.

He didn’t need to use hand to hand combat because his harpoons critically injure or kill with each hit and never miss / get blocked. Guys like Xavier who use psionics are not normally quite as powerful in hand to hand combat as there is no real need to be. It doesn’t stop them being uber.

In my opening debate I debunked every single one of Star-Lord’s advantages in this battle (with the exception of the ability to see all spectrums, which I did not even contest). All you need to do to prove that Star–Lord has a chance here is to explain how he is going to avoid or withstand Ahab’s deadly psionic harpoons.

WINNER = AHAB

 

[Phaedrus45]

RESPONSE: AHAB Vs STARLORD

Firstly I’ll assume that paragraphs that haven’t been quoted from my debate are points that have been accepted and will remain uncontested. Just to be clear these include:

* that Star-Lord’s space suit would not offer protection against Ahab’s harpoons
* that his skill as a marksman is inferior to the accuracy of Ahab’s harpoons that lock onto genetic signatures
* that Star-Lord’s element gun is inferior to Ahab’s harpoons
* that the 100% recall function will not be a factor in this battle

No, just because I don't quote everything doesn't mean I accept it. Sometimes, it's quicker to just highlight a small area, instead of filling up space with a bunch of quotes.

Your quotes above won't even come into play. This will be an enclosed area, as I noted, and Ahab won't have a chance to get the distance he's always required in getting a good throw to his harpoons. Basically, your bullet points are worthless to me in this battle.

You say the fight will be taken indoors but you forget to explain how or why. Obviously Star-Lord can choose to go indoors but Ahab, being far superior than Star–Lord at ranged battle will not be stupid enough to follow him. Star-Lord will merely be putting himself in an unnecessarily vulnerable position, making it almost impossible to evade the psionic harpoons which will pass easily through the walls of the building.

Why would Star-Lord go outdoors? Ahab has never been shown as someone who doesn't go hunting for his prey, while Star-Lord has numerous times come up with working battleplans that are effective for his situation. Even the name Ahab implies he'll hunt for that white whale wherever it leads him...even on campus in enclosed areas.

These lackeys help when he is facing (and killing) the combined might of the Fantastic Four, the original X-Factor, the remaining X-Men and the New Mutants (not to mention going up against Franklin Richards). Against a sole opponent, they are not required. One harpoon will kill or critically injure Star-Lord and Ahab can throw this and get a genetic lock at the very beginning of the fight.

Star-Lord is trained to work alone. Ahab has always had his lackeys. End of story.

If Star-Lord wants to come in close, then firstly you are admitting a lack of confidence that he can take the fight from range and is therefore being forced to come in close. Secondly, how will he avoid the deadly, genetically locked harpoon at point blank range before the close range fight begins?

Your term of "lack of confidence" is ridiculous. Star-Lord is not one to lack in anything. Simply put, it only stands to reason to deal with Ahab in close quarters. And, knowing where Ahab is coming from is simply an easy way to lock onto him and take him out. Even if Star-Lord was outside, he would know that Ahab is coming and be able to use his gun to encrust him in fire or earth. Ahab wouldn't be able to get a shot off.

Being able to see energy spectrums is useful but it can't stop Ahab from throwing his harpoon.

See above. It's very effective in this match, especially facing a cyborg like Ahab. First shot, as you've pointed out with your harpoons, is very important. Even Ahab won't be able to withstand extreme heat or a lot of earth burying him.

For someone who can fly in space to be limited to the confines of university grounds (and in particular within buildings as you suggest) would seem to be a big disadvantage.

If you've read some of Star-Lord's recent adventures, you'd know he's very similiar with enclosed spaces. He's spent time in a prison environment (the most deadly prison in the planet, I might add), and that's nothing but enclosed spaces. This would be a cake walk.

He needs no assistance when taking on a lone individual. All he has to do is throw a psionic harpoon which will itself lock onto Star-Lord’s genetic signature. Star-Lord has no way of blocking, diverting or slowing the missile (and if you insist on him entering the buildings, he also has no means of temporarily evading).

First, your bio says nothing about how your harpoons can get through the earth. If his gun shoots rocks and such, your harpoons might very well not work. Also, as noted, Ahab won't get a chance to throw a harpoon. It's a mute point.

Star-Lord isn’t your typical hero. He took many lives and now feels extreme remorse. Spider-man readers will know how infuriating it is when he loses fights due to pangs of conscience from the burden he carries from having been involved in causing death and the worry of repeating his mistake. Star-Lord’s problem follows a similar principle but is magnified due to the number of deaths involved. Any hesitation can be the difference between victory and defeat.

This is a man who's seen death and evaded it effectively on the deadliest prison planet in the Universe. Ahab won't be a problem.

The advanced cybernetics you refer to for Star-Lord include nothing significant other than the memory chip in his brain giving 100% recall and his cybernetic left eye giving the ability to see all spectrums, both of which I have already acknowledged separately as possible advantages. You did not contest my assertion that the 100% recall would not be an advantage and I conceded that the ability to see all spectrums would mean that Ahab would not be able to hide at any time during the fight.

It would be a great advantage. In every battle he's ever been in, on the prison planet where he's dealt with the deadliest people ever know, with hanging out with Thanos on that prison planet, he's picked up a lot of knowledge, much more knowledge than Ahab ever has in his short amount of appearances. (As you see, I'm responding to every quote.)

How powerful is Xavier without his psionic powers? Actually a hell of a lot less powerful than this cyborg with enhanced strength and durability.

What this has to do with anything, I don't know. Star-Lord has bionics thoughout his arms and legs, as you can see in pictures. It stands to reason he'd have the same enhancements...it's just he's got the other two things going for him, which Ahab clearly doesn't.

Also, as I have said, only Star-Lord will be in the enclosed area as Ahab has no reason to follow him.

It's in Ahab's nature to follow Star-Lord, to chase that White Whale, so to speak.

He didn’t need to use hand to hand combat because his harpoons critically injure or kill with each hit and never miss / get blocked. Guys like Xavier who use psionics are not normally quite as powerful in hand to hand combat as there is no real need to be. It doesn’t stop them being uber.

In my opening debate I debunked every single one of Star-Lord’s advantages in this battle (with the exception of the ability to see all spectrums, which I did not even contest). All you need to do to prove that Star–Lord has a chance here is to explain how he is going to avoid or withstand Ahab’s deadly psionic harpoons.

The only thing that's been done is to say Ahab will get Star-Lord with his harpoons. Star-Lord has more experience, better bionics, knowledge of where Ahab is coming from, and much more. Ahab is a hunter, which will do no good in this battle. As I've noted, Ahab needs open space to throw his harpoons, which he won't get. Star-Lord is an expert marksman and in hand-to-hand combat. EVEN IF he is outside, Star-Lord would know where Ahab is coming from, and be able to bury him under tons of rubble or use fire to destroy him. He's been living in the deadliest prison in the universe, and knows he has to do anything he has to to survive.

Winner = Star-Lord

 

[Midnight Ice]

Match 14:

Shathra (DARKHELLRIDER) bio



vs.

Madman (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio



Ok, a lady that can track down spiders VS. a guy that can go toe to toe with the Hulk!!! The Madmanwould simply crush Shathra or punch her through a wall without even breaking a sweat.

WINNER: Madman

 

[Phaedrus45]

Dusk vs. Hornet:

This is a really tough match, and equally tough for Zoken to figure out who he'll want to advance. Let's look at the powers of each character.

Dusk:

Dusk has many supernatural abilities. Her primary power is the ability to teleport herself (or others) anywhere she wishes to be. She can manipulate shadows to form objects or constructs of solid dark energy, a power she used to great effectiveness during the battle against Mephisto's horde of demons. She also has a clairvoyant ability to sense the whereabouts of her teammates, and know if they are in danger, no matter how far away she is from them.

Hornet:

The Hornet costume had a jet-powered wing harness that enabled Eddie to fly at high speeds. Micro-servos in the armored suit enhanced his strength beyond normal levels. His gauntlets contained wrist blasters that could fire darts filled with a fast-acting sedative, or powerful laser-beams.


This battle could almost be considered a draw. Dusk has an advantage over Hornet, in the fact that Hornet has a mad crush on her. But, Dusk has a crush on another fellow teammate, Ricochet. She ended up sparing each character's feelings, because "she felt that they couldn't know what is was like to be alive, yet not have a heartbeat." So, this advantage might also be a weakness to her, also. She obviously has strong feelings about her feelings. Also, Hornet might feel rejected, and thus use his friendship to get back at her in a jerk-kind of way.

Dusk's powers are kind of hard to understand; but, she will be able to hide from Hornet without him finding her. This won't be the case for Hornet, because of Dusk's abililty to know the location of all her teammates. But, Hornet has flight, and can stay away from Dusk.

In the end, there is really only one clear choice for Zoken to make, as this contest seems like a draw. Dusk's powers aren't clearly understood, unlike Hornet's. Plus, in every other match, her ability to sense her teammates will not help her at all. Zoken would have a tough time debating Dusk against many opponents, and he'd be better served with knowing what his character can clearly do.

(On the other hand, Dusk "can manipulate shadows to form objects or constructs of solid dark energy," and being able to form these things would be benificial in a match. She'd never have to really be "one-on-one" against someone.)



Winner = Uggg, I'm still not sure.

 

[DarkHellRider]

Match 14:

Shathra (DARKHELLRIDER) bio



vs.

Madman (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio



Ok, a lady that can track down spiders VS. a guy that can go toe to toe with the Hulk!!! The Madmanwould simply crush Shathra or punch her through a wall without even breaking a sweat.

WINNER: Madman

Wow tough match indead

Shathra's poweres are about the same as spider-mans give or take a few tons. so going toe toe with Mandman bad idea. she has poisonous darts in her wrist. All shathra would have to do do is use the poison and shoot madman before he transformed so it would take effect before he knew it so it would either kill him or not if it just made him weak and unable to transform she could just hit him knocking him out.
If she wanted to end it quick since she has the strenght of spiderman all she would have to do is get one good punch in the face before he transformed to knock him out.
If he transforms Shathra would have no chance but all she would have to do is knock him out before he transforms

Winner-Shathra

 

[Iceman]

RESPONSE: AHAB Vs STAR-LORD

No, just because I don't quote everything doesn't mean I accept it. Sometimes, it's quicker to just highlight a small area, instead of filling up space with a bunch of quotes.

OK maybe I was hasty in my assumption that the points had been accepted by you. I will let any points that remain uncontested lie rather than refer to them again.

Your quotes above won't even come into play. This will be an enclosed area, as I noted, and Ahab won't have a chance to get the distance he's always required in getting a good throw to his harpoons. Basically, your bullet points are worthless to me in this battle.

Why would Star-Lord go outdoors? Ahab has never been shown as someone who doesn't go hunting for his prey, while Star-Lord has numerous times come up with working battleplans that are effective for his situation. Even the name Ahab implies he'll hunt for that white whale wherever it leads him...even on campus in enclosed areas.

Oh I never said Star-Lord would go outdoors/indoors. I am only outlining Ahab's strategy and it would make no sense for a guy whose primary weapons involves throwing long range psionic harpoons to go somewhere enclosed where he becomes vulnerable.

This is somewhere we keep disagreeing and yes, if the battle is taken indoors, some of my points lose validity. In the same way if Ahab remains outdoors some of your points lose validity. It is up to voters to decide what they feel will actually happen.

Star-Lord is trained to work alone. Ahab has always had his lackeys. End of story.

OK but I have illustrated the calibre of heroes he has killed alongside his "Lackeys", not merely defeated. It is still Ahab's harpoons that are causing the deathblows. Do you believe the lackeys would have got anywhere and Franklin Richards been called up if Ahab had been absent.

Your term of "lack of confidence" is ridiculous. Star-Lord is not one to lack in anything. Simply put, it only stands to reason to deal with Ahab in close quarters. And, knowing where Ahab is coming from is simply an easy way to lock onto him and take him out. Even if Star-Lord was outside, he would know that Ahab is coming and be able to use his gun to encrust him in fire or earth. Ahab wouldn't be able to get a shot off.

This is again related to location which needs to be decided on by voters.

See above. It's very effective in this match, especially facing a cyborg like Ahab. First shot, as you've pointed out with your harpoons, is very important. Even Ahab won't be able to withstand extreme heat or a lot of earth burying him.

At least he can contest these attacks. Star-Lord has no defence against Ahab's attack.

If you've read some of Star-Lord's recent adventures, you'd know he's very similiar with enclosed spaces. He's spent time in a prison environment (the most deadly prison in the planet, I might add), and that's nothing but enclosed spaces. This would be a cake walk.

My view has always been that Ahab will use common sense and remain outside. Star-Lord can choose where he wishes to go. I think we'll have to agree that we differ in our opinions of whether the fight will be taking place indoors or outdoors and leave it to voters to decide.

First, your bio says nothing about how your harpoons can get through the earth. If his gun shoots rocks and such, your harpoons might very well not work. Also, as noted, Ahab won't get a chance to throw a harpoon. It's a mute point.

The harpoons are psionic. How can they be blocked by rocks?

This is a man who's seen death and evaded it effectively on the deadliest prison planet in the Universe. Ahab won't be a problem.

The point being responded to is that Ahab may hesitate for a fraction of a second at the crucial moment due to the vow that he has taken and his history of death and hatred that he is trying to escape. I'm not sure how your response is relevant.

It would be a great advantage. In every battle he's ever been in, on the prison planet where he's dealt with the deadliest people ever know, with hanging out with Thanos on that prison planet, he's picked up a lot of knowledge, much more knowledge than Ahab ever has in his short amount of appearances. (As you see, I'm responding to every quote.)

In that case there are some benefits to this power, I was mistakenly viewing 100% recall as meaning within the context of the current fight. So I will admit that this retention of past experience is a positive factor. If Star Lord has encountered a similar opponent that attacks with psionic missiles (of any sort) than the knowledge could come in useful.

What this has to do with anything, I don't know. Star-Lord has bionics thoughout his arms and legs, as you can see in pictures. It stands to reason he'd have the same enhancements...it's just he's got the other two things going for him, which Ahab clearly doesn't.

The other two factors I have covered elsewhere. Ignoring those, some cybernetic implants cannot compete with a man that has been turned into a complete cyborg. I will let this point lie as I'm repeating myself and not covering any new ground.

It's in Ahab's nature to follow Star-Lord, to chase that White Whale, so to speak.

As stated, I don't agree that Ahab will follow Star-Lord when it will put him in an obviously more vulnerable position, so once more I will leave this to voters to decide.

The only thing that's been done is to say Ahab will get Star-Lord with his harpoons. Star-Lord has more experience, better bionics, knowledge of where Ahab is coming from, and much more. Ahab is a hunter, which will do no good in this battle. As I've noted, Ahab needs open space to throw his harpoons, which he won't get. Star-Lord is an expert marksman and in hand-to-hand combat. EVEN IF he is outside, Star-Lord would know where Ahab is coming from, and be able to bury him under tons of rubble or use fire to destroy him. He's been living in the deadliest prison in the universe, and knows he has to do anything he has to to survive.

Yes the argument is simple. The reason I focus on the harpoons is because this is his primary and by far most deadly weapon. Most users of psionics do not have numerous other means of attack that are as effective as their primary power.

WINNER = AHAB

 

[Phaedrus45]

I'm basically going to let our debate rest. We'd just be repeating ourselves to the voters. I will answer a couple of your questions, though.

The harpoons are psionic. How can they be blocked by rocks?

First, I refer to your quote:

Each harpoon is keyed to its target's genetic structure, and cannot be moved or deflected by energy;

This isn't energy, this is the elements, mainly Earth. I didn't see in all the annuals Ahab's harpoon able to go through walls or Earth. So, in my opinion, I'm not shooting energy at him, but elements that would actually make the harpoon hit something. (It's kind of how a harpoon was thrown at an X-Men character in the last annual (I think it was Rachel Grey), and Jean Grey jumped in front of it to grab hold and stop it's progress. Energy didn't stop it, but her human hands did the job while she was slowing it down with her psionics.

OK but I have illustrated the calibre of heroes he has killed alongside his "Lackeys", not merely defeated. It is still Ahab's harpoons that are causing the deathblows. Do you believe the lackeys would have got anywhere and Franklin Richards been called up if Ahab had been absent.

Yes, I believe without his horde of lackeys attacking the heroes while he stayed in the background during these fights, that he would not have been anywhere near as effective or powerful. Hank McCoy did just fine when he faced off with him in hand-to-hand combat, and he seemed to do most of his dirty work when his harpoons hit someone unaware that he was locking onto their genetic structure. (Which also brings up the point of Star-Lord won't be distracted, and how long does it take Ahab to lock onto an energy signiture, draw his harpoon, and throw it? Since Star-Lord will know where Ahab is, he'll have the first draw it would seem.)

The point being responded to is that Star-Lord may hesitate for a fraction of a second at the crucial moment due to the vow that he has taken and his history of death and hatred that he is trying to escape. I'm not sure how your response is relevant.

I changed your quote. I think you meant Star-Lord, not Ahab, mentioned with this sentence. My reasoning is that in the Thanos miniseries, he's clearly a very changed man. Being on the deadliest prison in the universe, he's had to change his beliefs, and this is clearly one of them. (Also, nothing I've mentioned would necessarily kill Ahab.)

I think that was the three questions I noted. It's been a nice debate, either way.

 

[Iceman]

It's been a nice debate, either way.

Yeah it's been enjoyable.

This was one of those matches which I thought might be interesting.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Voting May Begin!

 

[Harlekin]

Dusk
Madman
Star-Lord - Nice debate, but I think Ahab is a little outmatched here.
Her

 

[wiegeabo]

Dusk
Madman (Shathra would make a fight of it)
Her
Star-Lord (but it was very hard to decide. Nice job)

 

[kytrigger]

Hornet
Madman
Her
Star-Lord