The Wolverine Continuity? Now i'm even more confused!

[katie_girl09]

If they're "retconning" it (is that a word?), then does that mean I can keep deluding myself into thinking Gambit might be in a possible X4?

 

[marvelrobbins]

Here Is how we should treat Contunity.X-Men Origins:Wolverine be Ignored.Treat
The Wolverine and any possible sequel as the Official preX-Men adventres of Wolverine.
Thus First Class,The Wolverine,and Deadpool can all ben seen as part of the same series
with X-men,X2,and X-Men the last Stand.Like how before Casino royale threw everything
out you could see the James Bond films as a series with loose contunity.

 

[Hellion]

the way things are going why not just set up each new film as an alternate present, past, future, etc......they do it all the time in the comics...

The Trilogy could basically be the films "616"

Wolverine is one set alternate timeline/reality, THe Wolverine another, X-Men First Class another, myself I wouldn't mind the films continuing in some form to be continuation/prequel/sequel......but this could be the answer for the prequel/reboot debate?

 

[Crockett]

First Class is a prequel to the X-Men films, I think when it comes to The Wolverine that since it's just a stand-alone adventure with Logan and when it comes to the movie timeline you couldn't pinpoint the exact year when Logan was in Japan, but you could be certain that he was there. Since it so far won't have major characters that will appear in First Class it helps since that it couldn't contradict in First Class or future X-Men films.

 

[bhayes]

well. I think that everybody has learned their lesson.

The Wolverine and First Class i think can really repair the damage that Orgins did. orgins somewhat tarnishes the image of the first 3 movies.

but if they can put somehting out there that makes it obvious that Orgins is not in continuity at all and just a mistake/bad dream then i'm backing up the franchsie.

because after orgins i was saying "reboot" with new actors like everyone else.

the ign.com article "what we want in wolverine" really says it all.

we need a wolverine that i'm curious about the rating for the film.

i would love to hear the real story behind what happened with orgins.

rumors of studio interference really messed up everything and this is the end result.

 

[Crockett]

It was more on less that during filming Gavin Hood and Fox were disagree on a few things. They don't have to acknowledged Origins, just ignore it, simple as that and I'm pretty sure the rating will still be PG-13.

 

[The Mast]

This obviously means they'd have to ignore the Sabretooth/Wolverine brother relationship, which sucked anyone. They have enough reason to hate each other without Jackman's excuse of, "Sibling rivalry just makes it better."

My issue with continuity, besides every other one brought up in this thread, was justifying how neither of them knew each other in X-Men. Wolverine's memory was gone, fine. Why did Sabretooth not recognise his brother, or make any mention of it, though?

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

This obviously means they'd have to ignore the Sabretooth/Wolverine brother relationship, which sucked anyone. They have enough reason to hate each other without Jackman's excuse of, "Sibling rivalry just makes it better."

I dissagree. If there was one thing that the film had going for it were the roots to the ORIGIN comic that Hood injected into the backstory for the characters. The reason the film had so much hype trailer after trailer was the stuff involving the "brothers" angle. Also, the majority of reviewers trashed the film, but praised the relationship between Schreiber and Jackman as a very believable concept. Everything else was bad and was deemed bad.

 

[The Mast]

Sibling rivalry as a believable concept. What will they think of next?

It's almost like Gavin Hood realised that such a familial trait was real and prolific in the world, and incorporated that to save time and cut corners, despite them having enough history in the bank to hate each other anyway.

Still, if the MAJORITY agrees...

 

[Hellion]

I wish Sabretooth "killing" Silverfox-I mean Kayla, was closer to the comics (instead of Kayla being in on it).....actually thats the one thing in the film that I did wish they kept similar to the comics...and maybe all the false memory nonsense...

...I thought Wolverine was an ok movie, a step down from The Last Stand, which itself was a step down from X-Men and X2...but one issue I had was how everyone but Wolverine were in at one point or another in Stryker's plan except Wolverine, it was just too convenient in the film...

 

[BoredGuy]

well i believe the cartoon version had Silver Fox in on it, but then they actually did a decent job with adapting the story.

amazing how a pretty poorly animated 90's tv show was a better production than XO:W

 

[Hellion]

amazing how a pretty poorly animated 90's tv show was a better production than XO:W

agreed...and this is coming from someone who thought the film was...ok...

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

The most annoying thing about Origins, is that there's a great film buried underneath all the crap.

The first 20 minutes of the movie work well, but they needed to be expanded. If you cut out all the other mutants from the film besides Logan and Victor (the Matrix jumps by Zero, Gambit & Wade), Kayla being alive and the reconciling of the brothers at the end, you've got an alright Wolverine movie. But it would only be 40 minutes long t:

Something like this: Wolverine walks away from Victor. Victor finds him and kills Kayla. Wolverine tries to avenge Kayla but fails. Stryker offers Wolverine a way to forget the horrors of his life by erasing his memory with the experiment as a price. Wolverine agrees but goes nuts after the procedure and escapes into the woods (X2 style). The end.

No agendas about Weapon XI doh, no mindgames, just life.

Its in there, but we'll never see it.

 

[finalrelief]

sounds like you would be ideal to make a fan-edit...

 

[bhayes]

The most annoying thing about Origins, is that there's a great film buried underneath all the crap.

The first 20 minutes of the movie work well, but they needed to be expanded. If you cut out all the other mutants from the film besides Logan and Victor (the Matrix jumps by Zero, Gambit & Wade), Kayla being alive and the reconciling of the brothers at the end, you've got an alright Wolverine movie. But it would only be 40 minutes long t:

Something like this: Wolverine walks away from Victor. Victor finds him and kills Kayla. Wolverine tries to avenge Kayla but fails. Stryker offers Wolverine a way to forget the horrors of his life by erasing his memory with the experiment as a price. Wolverine agrees but goes nuts after the procedure and escapes into the woods (X2 style). The end.

No agendas about Weapon XI doh, no mindgames, just life.

Its in there, but we'll never see it.

totall agree. you mentioned you're doing a fan cut of orgins. when will you post this?

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

totall agree. you mentioned you're doing a fan cut of orgins. when will you post this?

I finished my cut of the now titled "Origin" about a week ago. What I'm working on now is the score. I had to pretty much scrap the Gregson score since it didn't fit the tone I was giving it. This is now a very character-driven piece and the action is secondary. I'll give you a little preview:

The movie opens with Logan in the "not too distant future" living alone and very detached from the superhero life. One night he starts to have the usual nightmares about a blurry past he knows very little of and then we take you back to The Hill with Jimmy and Victor. The title sequence is gone. Instead we have just Jimmy and Victor running through the woods while title credits run through a very quiet escape by the two (think of the quiet opening to Terminator 3). From there we cut back to Logan in the future drinking beer at a bar and once again drifting off into pensive thoughts as I take you back to the wars montage sequence which ends with Logan waking up from a nightmare, screaming.

That's just the first 20 minutes of the film. You're gonna love the ending, its very grim and simplistic. I was trying to make the film Aronofsky woulda made with the origin story. I even used some music cues from Black Swan in some of the quieter moments. Still not finished

There's alot of abstract in the film now - unexplained noises and nightmares, obscure meanings to objects and at times Logan sees things that aren't there. I used a comic called "Dream" as alot of inspiration for the piece. I also slowed down and expanded the escape sequence from Weapon X with some footage I found on trailers for the film.

I'll put it on Rapidshare once I'm happy with it. I screened it for my friends on Friday and they couldn't believe it was the same movie: there's tinting in a few shots, score's been completely ripped and the entire focus of the movie is different (Logan agrees to the procedure just so Stryker will erase his memory). That was pretty hard to do too since I needed Jackman and Huston to have that convo. Had to use words and sentences from other movies but finally got it right:

(Logan walks down a hall and is stopped by Stryker's voice behind him...)
Logan: "What do you want, Stryker?"
Stryker: "All the horrible things in your life. Your father, the wars, knowing that the woman you loved was hunted down..."
(Logan turns around to look at Stryker now)
Stryker: "...I can make it all go away."
Logan: "Why?"
Stryker: "You're a dangerous man, Logan. I like to keep my eye on dangerous men. And frankly, I need your gifts. Your strengths. You wanted to leave this life behind, so we erase it all."
Logan: "If I come with you, I won't remember?"
Stryker: "I promise you."

so far my favorite new moment is the closing statement to the film that introduces John Murphy's score and the title "Directed by Gavin Hood".

 

[bhayes]

I finished my cut of the now titled "Origin" about a week ago. What I'm working on now is the score. I had to pretty much scrap the Gregson score since it didn't fit the tone I was giving it. This is now a very character-driven piece and the action is secondary. I'll give you a little preview:

The movie opens with Logan in the "not too distant future" living alone and very detached from the superhero life. One night he starts to have the usual nightmares about a blurry past he knows very little of and then we take you back to The Hill with Jimmy and Victor. The title sequence is gone. Instead we have just Jimmy and Victor running through the woods while title credits run through a very quiet escape by the two (think of the quiet opening to Terminator 3). From there we cut back to Logan in the future drinking beer at a bar and once again drifting off into pensive thoughts as I take you back to the wars montage sequence which ends with Logan waking up from a nightmare, screaming.

That's just the first 20 minutes of the film. You're gonna love the ending, its very grim and simplistic. I was trying to make the film Aronofsky woulda made with the origin story. I even used some music cues from Black Swan in some of the quieter moments. Still not finished

There's alot of abstract in the film now - unexplained noises and nightmares, obscure meanings to objects and at times Logan sees things that aren't there. I used a comic called "Dream" as alot of inspiration for the piece. I also slowed down and expanded the escape sequence from Weapon X with some footage I found on trailers for the film.

I'll put it on Rapidshare once I'm happy with it. I screened it for my friends on Friday and they couldn't believe it was the same movie: there's tinting in a few shots, score's been completely ripped and the entire focus of the movie is different (Logan agrees to the procedure just so Stryker will erase his memory). That was pretty hard to do too since I needed Jackman and Huston to have that convo. Had to use words and sentences from other movies but finally got it right:

(Logan walks down a hall and is stopped by Stryker's voice behind him...)
Logan: "What do you want, Stryker?"
Stryker: "All the horrible things in your life. Your father, the wars, knowing that the woman you loved was hunted down..."
(Logan turns around to look at Stryker now)
Stryker: "...I can make it all go away."
Logan: "Why?"
Stryker: "You're a dangerous man, Logan. I like to keep my eye on dangerous men. And frankly, I need your gifts. Your strengths. You wanted to leave this life behind, so we erase it all."
Logan: "If I come with you, I won't remember?"
Stryker: "I promise you."

so far my favorite new moment is the closing statement to the film that introduces John Murphy's score and the title "Directed by Gavin Hood".

it sounds great. please post YT or megaupload links when its done.

and then send it to fox somehow because i still cannot understand how they messed up with orgins. i mean i can understand that they tried to sell the film to little kids, which explains why they watered it down. but they got little stuff wrong.

you seem to have analyzed why the film really sucked. i have had the same feelings but i could never put it into words.

the movie like you said had potential. the trailers had me excited. the x men films are great sci-fi action films aside from being comic movies. i just watched the x films dubbed in other languages liek german and frecnch. i'm study the german language. And i really saw x-men outside of my knowledge of the comics. most people over-seas don't know the comic story.

some people have said the orgins is a good movie, when you don't know the comic orgins. well just as a film period. it sucks really bad.

infact i really feel that the animated episode of the x-men 90's series does a better job than the film does. i hope that jackman will admit one day that 1. he messed up and 2. whey they (the filmmakers) messed up.

i mean i'm shocked that they even messed on little things. i don't mind editing boo boos. they happen, but the poor cgi, the bad editing and evrything ruin it. and they ruined deadpool. i mean i really feel the structure of the story was very good.

Weapon 11 could have worked but they did a lousy job of presenting wade wilson - deadpool the cyborg mutant killer to the audience.

so lets hope and pray that xmen first class & wolverine repair the damage done by orgins.

by the way what's your take on wolverine 2? i mean its a reboot with hugh jackman. but how do you think they will present the film as a reboot.

people overseas who don't know the comics will be confused.

 

[Hellion]

so lets hope and pray that xmen first class & wolverine repair the damage done by orgins.

.

I would like to also add Deadpool to that list, hopefully the film is made, undo's the damage that Wolverine did to the character.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

it sounds great. please post YT or megaupload links when its done.

and then send it to fox somehow because i still cannot understand how they messed up with orgins. i mean i can understand that they tried to sell the film to little kids, which explains why they watered it down. but they got little stuff wrong.

you seem to have analyzed why the film really sucked. i have had the same feelings but i could never put it into words.

the movie like you said had potential. the trailers had me excited. the x men films are great sci-fi action films aside from being comic movies. i just watched the x films dubbed in other languages liek german and frecnch. i'm study the german language. And i really saw x-men outside of my knowledge of the comics. most people over-seas don't know the comic story.

some people have said the orgins is a good movie, when you don't know the comic orgins. well just as a film period. it sucks really bad.

infact i really feel that the animated episode of the x-men 90's series does a better job than the film does. i hope that jackman will admit one day that 1. he messed up and 2. whey they (the filmmakers) messed up.

i mean i'm shocked that they even messed on little things. i don't mind editing boo boos. they happen, but the poor cgi, the bad editing and evrything ruin it. and they ruined deadpool. i mean i really feel the structure of the story was very good.

Weapon 11 could have worked but they did a lousy job of presenting wade wilson - deadpool the cyborg mutant killer to the audience.

so lets hope and pray that xmen first class & wolverine repair the damage done by orgins.

by the way what's your take on wolverine 2? i mean its a reboot with hugh jackman. but how do you think they will present the film as a reboot.

people overseas who don't know the comics will be confused.

You'll really like my cut then since I completely removed "Weapon XI" doh and pretty much the entire third act of the film. We only get to see Wade briefly on the plane and in the jungle, but that's it. If you've seen Jonathan Demme's The Manchurian Candidate (which Liev Schreiber is also in) you'll get an idea of what I was going for here. I wanted the stuff from Africa to be like this obscure repressed memory Logan seems to dream about but can't remember. The fact that all these haunting bits and pieces of his past aren't "available" to him have made him into a bit of nut. He walks around hearing things and feeling paranoid. There's a real sinister presence to the whole movie as if someone "designed" this horrible existence for him (more on that when you see it).

What I noticed after I finished re-editing the movie is that the stuff designed for the kids feels more out of place than ever now. You have a story of two very dangerous men killing people through a century of wars that are eventually executed (after almost raping a native and killing one of their own) and we go from that to Darth Maul -- I mean Weapon XI showing up the same exact way he did in The Phantom Menace -- I mean no, he wasn't in that movie, but either way it just doesn't fit. I'm sure Jackman had no control over that and just did the best he could with a very mediocre script. Schreiber was also able to deliver a terrific performance even with the crap story.

I'm pretty confident that "The Wolverine" will be another one of Darren's cinematic gems. If you're not familiar with Aronofsky's work, start watching his stuff and you'll feel pretty good about his abilities to really deliver an amazing Wolverine movie. I never liked Gavin Hood btw, didn't like Tsotsi and didn't like Rendition. He did have some cool concepts in his Wolverine film, but also some pretty terrible ones.

 

[bhayes]

You'll really like my cut then since I completely removed "Weapon XI" doh and pretty much the entire third act of the film. We only get to see Wade briefly on the plane and in the jungle, but that's it. If you've seen Jonathan Demme's The Manchurian Candidate (which Liev Schreiber is also in) you'll get an idea of what I was going for here. I wanted the stuff from Africa to be like this obscure repressed memory Logan seems to dream about but can't remember. The fact that all these haunting bits and pieces of his past aren't "available" to him have made him into a bit of nut. He walks around hearing things and feeling paranoid. There's a real sinister presence to the whole movie as if someone "designed" this horrible existence for him (more on that when you see it).

What I noticed after I finished re-editing the movie is that the stuff designed for the kids feels more out of place than ever now. You have a story of two very dangerous men killing people through a century of wars that are eventually executed (after almost raping a native and killing one of their own) and we go from that to Darth Maul -- I mean Weapon XI showing up the same exact way he did in The Phantom Menace -- I mean no, he wasn't in that movie, but either way it just doesn't fit. I'm sure Jackman had no control over that and just did the best he could with a very mediocre script. Schreiber was also able to deliver a terrific performance even with the crap story.

I'm pretty confident that "The Wolverine" will be another one of Darren's cinematic gems. If you're not familiar with Aronofsky's work, start watching his stuff and you'll feel pretty good about his abilities to really deliver an amazing Wolverine movie. I never liked Gavin Hood btw, didn't like Tsotsi and didn't like Rendition. He did have some cool concepts in his Wolverine film, but also some pretty terrible ones.

well Darren has said in an interview that this is not a sequel and that it will have NO CONNECTION to the other x films.

which basically makes this a reboot. But unless they do thing to VISUALLY separate it from the other x movies it will confuse movie goers. especially those that don't know the comic but love the movies.

just a thought. since we know that a script has been written and Darren wants to create his own alternate continuity piece

what should they do to present a film that uses the more successful aspects of the comics.

basically wolverine goes to japan he falls in love with a crime lord's daughter. the father Shingen basically a bald samurai asian crime lord woops wolverine's ass with his samurai sword.

and basically there is a love triangle, espionage, betrayals, back stabbing and so on.

then wolverine basically has a series of skrimishes with Ninjas - Samurai's and has to train and regain his honor and face Shingen Again.

Silver Samurai appears again when wolverine returns to japan in another issue. the samurai

the new anime puts wolverine in a modern day japan and updates the 4 issue claremont story.

but what changes should they make and what elements should stay the same.

personally i feel this sounds like Ninja-Assassin meets The Last Samurai just starring Hugh jackman.

and how will he create a separate continuity. i personally believe that they should put Wolveine in a more realistic modern day japan of 2010 like in the anime. And they should have it so that the x men and the whole mutant issue should not exist and basically wolverine and his classic enemies (sabertooth, lady death strike, silver samurai, cyber) that way the door is open for more movies if this film succeeeds.

infact someone on youtube.com has made fanmade trailer. it looks good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh_TDOulo2w

the premise is that wolverine is in a canadian jail cell and a japanese mafia man bails him out and tells him if he goes with him to Tokyo he will tell him about his orgin, so they're going back to having wolverine not knowing how he got his claws.

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/6008189/15616767

here is wolverine vs silver samurai in the animated 90's series.

this could be a great movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqzLBtrTc0U

 

[bhayes]

here is the anime of the japan story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz7mrocDRtU

alexi what's your take on the anime. its easy to view on megavideo.com it pretty much isolates wolverine "logan" in a modern day realistic japan. the drama aspect is pretty good. it has it all. we get berserker rage. we s

i hope in this film we see the extent of Logan's healing power and i hope they do a better job with the gore aspect of that. if logan gets his ass wooped and is damaged from head to toe. i hope they don't do a cgi blood healing that they've done in the past films. also i hope they do a better job with the claws. they should look really lethal.

if darren goes this direction with the look of the story, making it more REAL and less fantasy. it could work.

i think they should just isolate logan and his enemies in the story. the x men and all the other marvel mutants should not exist.

the same way that dark knight is its own universe that doesn't coincide with the Ryan Reynolds version of Green Lantern & Zack Snyders Superman.

this wolverine and his enemies should exist in this world. and that is Lady Death Strike

kinda like how the new reboot trailer of mortal kombat is a realistic take on the mk story

 

[night0205]

I'm sorry but I disagree with most of you...
Fox has worked very hard to keep continuity... If they wanted to reboot anything they would have done it with X-men First Class... but they aren't. And because nothing contradicts Wolverine Origins except for minor things that can be looked around... like Emma (influenced by Emma Front) in Wolverine Origins, not really being Emma Front at all... but just a girl with similar powers. In fact they specifically put Professor X at the end of Origins just to give the audience proof that it is indeed a prequel. And fox view of Wolverine Origins hasn't changed. As far as we know "the wolverine" is just a side story that keeps with the mythology of ALL the movies. Sabretooth in X1 isn't necessarily Victor Creed. That guy who's on TV for like a second in X2 isn't necessarily beast (it's an easter egg anyways). Fox has, and I think will continue to keep continuity. Even if one of the movies suck every once in a while.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

I'm sorry but I disagree with most of you...
Fox has worked very hard to keep continuity... If they wanted to reboot anything they would have done it with X-men First Class... but they aren't. And because nothing contradicts Wolverine Origins except for minor things that can be looked around... like Emma (influenced by Emma Front) in Wolverine Origins, not really being Emma Front at all... but just a girl with similar powers. In fact they specifically put Professor X at the end of Origins just to give the audience proof that it is indeed a prequel. And fox view of Wolverine Origins hasn't changed. As far as we know "the wolverine" is just a side story that keeps with the mythology of ALL the movies. Sabretooth in X1 isn't necessarily Victor Creed. That guy who's on TV for like a second in X2 isn't necessarily beast (it's an easter egg anyways). Fox has, and I think will continue to keep continuity. Even if one of the movies suck every once in a while.

The thing is, this film doesn't need to apply to the continuity that was already established. First Class is clearly a prequel because its source of interest to the general audience is the idea of seeing the young Erik and Charles. With this movie its just Darren giving us a truly visceral and eclectic take on Logan's journey of isolation in the Claremont/Miller story.

"The Wolverine" doesn't need the continuity.

 

[danoyse]

Just a quick note - no posting links to **************.com. Thanks.

 

[The Cocreator]

While i didn't like weapon XI, in the post credits scennes it showed deadpool to be still alive but now with the ability to talk again, so the deadpool movie can still be set in the same universe as XO-W