The Wolverine Continuity? Now i'm even more confused!

[night0205]

I think it's funny that most people could care less about the deadpool character before Wolverine Origins. Most people were not a fan of him, most people didn't even know he existed, until Wolverine Origins came out, but as soon as people found out how much his character was different from the comics, people automatically jump on the hate wagon. In fact, I guarantee that most of the people who jumped on that wagon have never read a deadpool comic in their life. Welcome to a world of how easily people are influenced by others opinions.

 

[J.Howlett]

I agree with Alexei.

As long as The Wolverine has no references to Origins or the X-Men trilogy, fans can look at this as either the official prequel to the X-Men trilogy or just a one shot film about Wolverine before he joined the X-Men.

Hell, there's been no indication that this film does or does not take place after the Last Stand. It could very well be. We won't know until we actually see sets.

Either way, as long as it doesn't reference Origins, it doesn't matter really how you view the film.

For me, Wolverine's origins were thoroughly explained in the flashbacks in X-Men and X2.

My hope for this film is that it takes place before he's joined with the X-Men from the first film.

 

[bhayes]

hey alexi. are you finished with the new cut of wolverine yet?

i can't wait to see it. it should be really cool.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

hey alexi. are you finished with the new cut of wolverine yet?

i can't wait to see it. it should be really cool.

Not far from done trying to raise the running time a bit and almost completely satisfied with the score. I have a rough cut that I showed some friends last week but I'd rather truly finish it (and be happy with it) before letting you guys see it. One thing's for sure, it'll leave you excited to see Darren's movie. I'll give you a little taste of what I've done to it today, of one of the additions to the Weapon X escape, nothing huge but just something that further demonstrates how hard the studio [or Hood] tried to make this kid-friendly

Also, I gave Creed a really great way to go out that leaves an open window to alotta fun birthday "celebrations" for Wolverine

 

[bhayes]

Not far from done trying to raise the running time a bit and almost completely satisfied with the score. I have a rough cut that I showed some friends last week but I'd rather truly finish it (and be happy with it) before letting you guys see it. One thing's for sure, it'll leave you excited to see Darren's movie. I'll give you a little taste of what I've done to it today, of one of the additions to the Weapon X escape, nothing huge but just something that further demonstrates how hard the studio [or Hood] tried to make this kid-friendly

Also, I gave Creed a really great way to go out that leaves an open window to alotta fun birthday "celebrations" for Wolverine

Thanks bro. we are all waiting to see this. i need some positive wolverine cinema. orgins tarnished the image of the movie wolverine.

I'm a hardcore wolverine fan. Orgins made me loose faith in the x men movies. i personally don't understand the hate towards Last Stand. it had some great wolverine (hugh) moments.

it had lots of characters, but they did a great job of balancing things out.

sure there is a change in tone. but overall i felt Last Stand brought the franchise to a great close.

Orgins is damn near unwatchable. It really is. the film is on point up until stryker is in the prison cell with creed and logan. then after that the film falls apart from there.

and now Fox is trying to makeup for screwing up by doing First Class but what has happned is they're turning x-men into something that is the opposite of what it was originally.

Magneto is not a hero he is a villian. Havoc is not one of the original 5. mystique is not a good guy. professor x was always bald.

the only thing that is

i'm not saying that First Class will be bad. at the end of the day, first class seems like a cool sci fi film with alot of symbolism and social commentary.

the x men films have changed into a sci fi movie series about people who have super powers who get discrimated against. the original x men and all the legacy of the spin offs weren't not about discrimination and so on. they were about superheros who could do cool things.

i like the way magnetos super powers are portrayed. it looks cool on screen. but magneto is not a hero!

it seems like they realize that they have a niche audience that they want to cater to.

so simply put i really need to see some authentic wolverine. its said because x men orgins poster portrays a dark violet film with hugh angry face and the 3 claws but this was a kids movie!

 

[samsnee]

So in your fan movie, Wolverine remembers or doesn't remember his past? He volunteered because he wanted to erase his memories, but then you also said he had repressed memories? It just sounds contradictory the way you described it.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

So in your fan movie, Wolverine remembers or doesn't remember his past? He volunteered because he wanted to erase his memories, but then you also said he had repressed memories? It just sounds contradictory the way you described it.

Well he volunteers for the procedure in an effort to "kill himself" the only way he knows how to - by allowing Stryker to erase his memory.

Throughout the film, he lives the life of a Schizophrenic, he dreams things that feel incredibly real yet that didn't happen - or at least he thinks they didn't. This lack of control on reality has also made him severely paranoid (he hears things that aren't there, sees people that aren't there, the guy's cracking up). He even smells things that aren't there - but I can't go into that or I'll spoil the surprise

If you watch Jonathan Demme's The Manchurian Candidate you'll get a good idea of the kind of memory repression I was aiming for. His past is sort of creeping out little by little and driving him nuts. Common sense is telling him to just relax but his instincts feel that his new life is a fabrication of sorts. It feels artificial to him.

The hardest thing for me to do was to round up enough footage that was post-Weapon X to create the present day/not too distant future Wolverine presented in the film. We don't know what year the story takes place in, it could very well occur before the trilogy or after.

I hated what they did in Origins with his history. They went through a century of events in just 5 minutes here these events are told as nightmares/dreams. He misses Kayla yet he doesn't know who she is except some "creation" of his subconscious. Its a double-edged sword for him, because he feels more "awake" when he's asleep - yet his greatest fears manifest in his sleep too, and they're embodied by Victor.

The studio never woulda shot a movie like this 3 years ago. Its too sinister and feels more like a David Lynch/Aronofsky piece than a Fantastic Four movie.

I think after Dark Knight was released they all changed their demographic. Origins was completed before Dark Knight premiered so they were kinda stuck with the kids movie.

 

[bhayes]

Well he volunteers for the procedure in an effort to "kill himself" the only way he knows how to - by allowing Stryker to erase his memory.

Throughout the film, he lives the life of a Schizophrenic, he dreams things that feel incredibly real yet that didn't happen - or at least he thinks they didn't. This lack of control on reality has also made him severely paranoid (he hears things that aren't there, sees people that aren't there, the guy's cracking up). He even smells things that aren't there - but I can't go into that or I'll spoil the surprise

If you watch Jonathan Demme's The Manchurian Candidate you'll get a good idea of the kind of memory repression I was aiming for. His past is sort of creeping out little by little and driving him nuts. Common sense is telling him to just relax but his instincts feel that his new life is a fabrication of sorts. It feels artificial to him.

The hardest thing for me to do was to round up enough footage that was post-Weapon X to create the present day/not too distant future Wolverine presented in the film. We don't know what year the story takes place in, it could very well occur before the trilogy or after.

I hated what they did in Origins with his history. They went through a century of events in just 5 minutes here these events are told as nightmares/dreams. He misses Kayla yet he doesn't know who she is except some "creation" of his subconscious. Its a double-edged sword for him, because he feels more "awake" when he's asleep - yet his greatest fears manifest in his sleep too, and they're embodied by Victor.

The studio never woulda shot a movie like this 3 years ago. Its too sinister and feels more like a David Lynch/Aronofsky piece than a Fantastic Four movie.

I think after Dark Knight was released they all changed their demographic. Origins was completed before Dark Knight premiered so they were kinda stuck with the kids movie.

wow alexi this sounds awesome. i don't mean to RUSH you but please post this ASAP. its really exciting to hear what you've done.

i feel bad for jackman. he has a great leading man charisma, his actual performance as Logan in orgins was fine as was Liev's performance as sabertooth. the overall direction, style and editing in orgins was horrible.

even though he is a nice guy, i'm sure he was pissed at himself for starring in such a very bad movie. he seems to really get back infront of the camera and do things right this time.

but alexi. what's your attitudie toward First Class trailer? what about Last Stand?

i mean i can understand that they are trying to create something that makes it obvious that First Class retcons orgins, but by doing so they have decided to make MORE changes to the timeline.

it seems like they've recaptured the feel of X MEN 2 styling wise without wolverine.

but with a young magneto as the hero of the story who turns to the dark side?

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

wow alexi this sounds awesome. i don't mean to RUSH you but please post this ASAP. its really exciting to hear what you've done.

I'm moving as fast as I can t: thing is, all the stuff that wasn't in the actual film, specially the dialogue, I had to piece together from other films and I'm smoothing it out right now, along with an all new score that takes the tone in a completely different direction.

i feel bad for jackman. he has a great leading man charisma, his actual performance as Logan in orgins was fine as was Liev's performance as sabertooth. the overall direction, style and editing in orgins was horrible.

even though he is a nice guy, i'm sure he was pissed at himself for starring in such a very bad movie. he seems to really get back infront of the camera and do things right this time.

I'm pretty sure Hugh was aware of how bad of a film this was. He's worked with Aronofsky, Nolan, Woody Allen and Singer. This must have been hard to do for him.

 

[bhayes]

I'm moving as fast as I can t: thing is, all the stuff that wasn't in the actual film, specially the dialogue, I had to piece together from other films and I'm smoothing it out right now, along with an all new score that takes the tone in a completely different direction.



I'm pretty sure Hugh was aware of how bad of a film this was. He's worked with Aronofsky, Nolan, Woody Allen and Singer. This must have been hard to do for him.

yeah i'm sorry to rush you. the wolverine anime and your trailer will have to hold us over until they start on this film.


infact to give it some exposure i would send it to **************.com i'm sure they will post it so that lots of people wil SEE it. a couple of people have made fan trailers for avengers and dark knight rises and they've posted them and lots of people.

i would call it "the real wolverine orgins"

which movies did you use for source material.

yeah i agree. once The Wolverine arrives and we see it and love it. it could be like the second coming of The Dark Knight. it could be the start of a new trilogy. we will see.

when that happens i'm sure that we will see a movie we love and make us real wolverine fans happy.

but i really want to hear why they messed up on orgins. i mean what the hell happened. i mean the film was bad to begin with, it got leaked on the net early, and i still made a profit.

but i guess the 20 mil pay check makes him be positive about it all. but i would love to hear the real story behind why the messed up. i want to hear gavin hood's side of what happened.

i'm sure he wishes he never signed on, it seems like they forced him to make a bad movie and over-ruled him. and hugh was forced to be positive about things. i guess they rushed things and what we got was

i remember reading about the guy who wrote the script for orgins about how he was a fan of the comics and he was greatful to be writign the script. its sad. the filmmakers really butchered what he created. not intentionally but they did.

what's your opinion on First Class trailer?

 

[S. Grundy]

Why Origins was as bad as it was probably lies with Tom Rothman, I recall reading that Hood and Rothman fought constantly about how the film should be. Hopefully things have changed and this and First Class will bring back the quality that the series had with the first two installments.

I kinda think Origins could have been better if it was more of a Wolverine/Team X film for the most part, that way we could have given a **** about those characters when they do die. I also think adamantium bonding should have been saved for the end, the final scene having Wolverine waking up and about to go berserk. But that's just my opinion.

 

[bhayes]

Why Origins was as bad as it was probably lies with Tom Rothman, I recall reading that Hood and Rothman fought constantly about how the film should be. Hopefully things have changed and this and First Class will bring back the quality that the series had with the first two installments.

I kinda think Origins could have been better if it was more of a Wolverine/Team X film for the most part, that way we could have given a **** about those characters when they do die. I also think adamantium bonding should have been saved for the end, the final scene having Wolverine waking up and about to go berserk. But that's just my opinion.

i think first class seems to recapture the styling of x2. it will be fun.

I for one don't have a problem with Last Stand. i don't understand the hate. I felt while there is a slight change in tone between X2 and Last Stand. other than that i loved how things came to a close. i like what they did with pheonix. more realistic and grounded. brett ratner should be proud. but i realize i'm in the minority. So I really like how the saga begins with x1 and ends with Last Stand. the acting was good. the characers were great. and we actually got some authetic berserker rage too. wolverine vs juggernaut was awesome. i loved it! the idea of social commentary is there. i liked what they did. kelsey grammer as beast rocked!!

i loved how wolverine and storm are forced to lead the remaining junior x men into the last battle. the whole cure plot was a great plot. the pacing and the acting and the themes of the film really bring things to a conclusion. heroes die and other characters loose their powers completely.


orgins is just a piece of non sense. but at the end of the day tom is the boss so if it was him that ruined things. its on him. oh well.

its not fair to gavin hood. he is somewhat tarnished by orgins. its not his fault.

orgins being bad has forced the filmmakers to create more cotinity confusion with First Class and Wolverine.

people in foreign countries who never read the comics as kids or looked at the animated series from the 90's will be confused.

magneto is not a hero, he is the villian. havoc is not one of the orginal 5 and is cyclops' younger brother. mystique is not a good guy. professor x was always bald.

but as for wolverine the anime and alexi's recut of orgins will hold us over for the next 2-1/2 years. until the film arrives.

 

[Timstuff]

I hope that we see a flashback of a retconned operation scene, where we see some of the brutality that was hinted at in the X-Men trilogy. The opening of the film should quickly establish that Logan was a soldier who was experimented on by the military, and during the operation that gave him metal-plated bones he lost his memory, and subsequently went berserk and stormed out of the lab (or at least, the sequence would imply this). That way, if you want to completely ignore XMOW, you can, but the people who misguidedly hold it dear will not be offended since it wouldn't be any more out of continuity with XMOW than XMOW was with the trilogy.

 

[bhayes]

I hope that we see a flashback of a retconned operation scene, where we see some of the brutality that was hinted at in the X-Men trilogy. The opening of the film should quickly establish that Logan was a soldier who was experimented on by the military, and during the operation that gave him metal-plated bones he lost his memory, and subsequently went berserk and stormed out of the lab (or at least, the sequence would imply this). That way, if you want to completely ignore XMOW, you can, but the people who misguidedly hold it dear will not be offended since it wouldn't be any more out of continuity with XMOW than XMOW was with the trilogy.

i hope for the same things. the word is that in the script. he starts out as being in a jail cell in canada. and a rich japanese guy tells him that if he comes to japan with him, he will tell logan about his orgin. so somewhere in there we should get a retconned orgin. but it should be more accurate to the weapon x comics instead of the x1 & x2 flashbacks.

i also feel that they should set it in a realistic 2010 setting. this would separate it from the other x movies and they should have it so that only logan and his classic enemies exist in this inverse. no other mutants. infact they shouldn't even be called mutants.

it should be that logan was apart of a military experinment went wrong and that he is a man with healing ability. they should re-explain what a mutant is and imply that there are only a handful of them.

that would be Logan (wolverine), Sabertooth, Omega Red & Lady Death Strike. but clearly it has to be more realistic and less fantasy.

has anyone seen the Wolverine Anime. it takes place in a 2010 setting. and it adapts the japan story just as the script for wolverine 2 does.

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz7mrocDRtU[/YT]

by the way hey alexi how is the recut of orgins coming? you should do a trailer snippet first. then post the film.

 

[Timstuff]

I want more continuity with the trilogy, not less. I don't want this to be a reboot of Wolverine's character. I want it to be a retcon of the inconsistencies that were introduced in XMOW, especially since First Class looks like it's trying a lot harder to be consistent with the series' continuity than XMOW was. I see the trilogy as being the bible, and XMOW being a gnostic gospel. I want The Wolverine and First Class to follow the "gospel" of the trilogy as closely as possible, while avoiding the inconsistencies that were in the "gnostic" XMOW. For starters, they can at least get the shape of Wolverine's dogtag correct, and re-do the operation scene to be consistent with the one hinted at in the trilogy (it needs to be brutal enough to cause mental trauma, unlike that sanitized sci-fi-acupuncture crap).

 

[marvelrobbins]

This Isn't going to be a reboot of Wolverine.They are Ignoring Wolverine but all reports say they won't do anything to call attention to Wolverine.Wolverine will have no memory
of his past allowing them not to address anything In Wolverine.The ending will likely still have Wolverine In Japan.The ending will likely be able for fans to be able to see this as
prequel to X-Men and X2 If they want or just see The Wolverine as Indivual film.First Class may or may not be throwing out the Last Stand from film contunity.We will know that when First Class Is released.

If Wolverine has some kind of memory flashes of his getting admanturm I hope It Is longer and consent with memory quick flashes In X-men and X2.But I think It Is more likely there will be nothing that could connect with other films except for Wolverine himself.

 

[Timstuff]

The First Class trailer had footage from X3 in it so I doubt that they're retconning X3 out. I doubt that Wolverine will be a true reboot of the pre-X1 timeline per say, but I do think that a lot of X3 will end up being apocryphal after TW and XFC.

XMOW broke continuity with the trilogy in several places, so I won't be surprised of TW breaks continuity in some places with XMOW to be more accurate to the trilogy. For example, if any flashbacks to the operation are made, I hope that they'll more closely resemble the ones from the trilogy than the one in XMOW, and I don't expect we'll have any direct references to things that happened in XMOW. Also, First Class has already rendered some stuff from XMOW inaccurate, such as Emma Frost being a teenager in the 1980s and being Silver Fox's sister. In XFC, she was an adult in the 1960s and has no connection to Silver Fox. That's not to say XMOW will be Superboy-punched out of continuity, but the disconnect between it and the rest of the franchise is going to get wider, and there's nothing being done to stop that trend. Also, there's a Deadpool on the way which will probably not make reference to XMOW either.

The Wolverine is technically not a reboot, but if there's nothing in it that prevents XMOW's contributions from being rendered negligible in the grand scheme of the X-universe franchise, it may as well be looked at as a reboot unless you really, really liked XMOW.

 

[marvelrobbins]

As I have said In first Class treads if First Class has Xavier crippled In 1960's and during 1960's hima nd Magneto falling out It makes viewing The last Stand with X-Men,X2,and First Class hard but that answer we will have to wait till june.

The Wolverine by all acounts Is adaptian of the classic Chris Calremont/Frank Miller Limited series with elements from other wolverine In Japan stories waven In.From the script details that were leaked before Fox made sites take them down Wolverine starts out In jail similar to Bruce wayne In jail at begining of Batman Begins.Besides Logan the only other mutant apparently In film Is Teh Silver Samurai.Hopefully The WOlverine can finally do WOlvernine's bersker rage In full glory.The best this has been done Is In x2.

Since all the films now are ignoring Wolverine I like to View The WOlverine as preX-Men adventres of Wolverine.Inless a x4 Is made The Wolverine could be Hugh jackman's final
film as Wolverine.After you do the japan story you have done the best Wolverine solo stories.

 

[Timstuff]

We have no idea if First Class will have Xavier crippled or Magneto turning against Charles, but we've got no reason to believe that's the case. So far it looks like it is in continuity with the other films, and therefore the assumption should be that they are holding continuity with the trilogy. It's one of those "innocent until proven guilty" things. Vaughn and others have stressed frequently that XFC is a prequel, not a reboot, and that they are trying hard to be consistent with the trilogy. With TW, the producers have been stressing that it is not a sequel to XMOW, stopping just short of saying it's a reboot of Wolverine's backstory. Those are two very different company lines, which tells me that the trilogy is still being treated as the series' canon and Wolverine is only seen as being in loose continuity with the other films.

 

[bhayes]

i agree with all the points made here. but darren has said that his wolverine film is no way related to any of the previous x movies. its a "separate" piece.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXI0l_9n_GE

i'm glad he wants this. x men 1, x2 and x3 are really great sci fi films. not just comic films. and they all have a positive message too. as well as great action.

orgins really tarnishes the image of the other x films and confuses non-comic fans and foreigners who don't know the weapon x - x men story.

if orgins had been atleast average/mediocre then the film would be OK they could move on. but orgins feels like a bad sci fi channel movie.

but if they use or extend weapon x footage from x1 & x2 i'll be fine with it.

have you guys seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t642gZK322M


i think this shows just how many passionate wolverine fans are out there. and how let down we felt with orgins. orgins had a decent structure to the story but the direction, the style, the editing, the cgi was all bad. they clearly rushed this film. but they have a 2nd chance.

i hope darren sees this and tries to aim for this.

this is how TW should be. because x men films have lots of non-comic fans and orgins is a bad movie which confuses things visually they should start over and create something separate.

darren is saying this will be like a japanese film.

it should kinda be like how in the 1970's bill bixby/lou ferrigno version of hulk. in that universe only the hulk and his realistic villians exist in a real world setting. no other marvel heroes exist in that universe

 

[bhayes]

so basically we have the wolverine anime, alexi's recut of wolverine and this new flash trailer to hold us over until wolverine 2 arrives. wolverine should be like a retelling - reboot new realistic continuity piece.

but we all have to wait and see what they do.

alexi please send you recut to **************.com. it will get alot of exposure there.

so the combination of the anime, this new flash trailer "wolverine vs the hand" and your trailer should let fox know what we expect this time. i mean this film must be R rated