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Cops break into house, kill dog and harass old lady.

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Spider_Who said:
Running with your hypothesis, you're telling me that they would have a hard time finding a mortally wounded, howling dog whose leaving a trail of blood while searching a small home for other people? That upon seeing the dog while on the search, they'd say "we haven't finished searching the house, lets wait to put the dog out of its misery, even though there's several of us and it'll take only one of us a fraction of a second to do so."? If the officers are so inept that they can't handle one tiny distraction - using that term extremely lightly based on the speed in which it takes to shoot the dog - (which is the morally RIGHT thing, mind you), then they have no business being police officers. Seriously. If that's your reasoning, what would you be saying if that dog were an unarmed person?

A house search is not some chaotic running through a door and around a house while shooting everything down.

The whole "assault" group is divided into small teams, each team has a certain path to follow, a certain area to cover, so that every single cop can make it home alive at the end of the search.

You're suggesting that one or two of these cops could have interrupted their part of the search to run after a wounded dog just to put it down. That would go against every single safety rule in the book.

First, you finish what it is you're supposed to do. Then you take care of the wounded if there's any. You don't put yourself, or people who need you and rely on you for cover, at risk just to put down an animal who's probably running like crazy all over the place in an erratic pattern.

I love animals, but God knows that in that situation the dog could go to hell. I'm not getting killed or getting one of my men killed just to put a dying animal out of its misery.

The Question said:
I'd argue that there's something ****ed up about the way they're supposed to do their jobs.

Over the last several years, there seems to have been a sharp increase in police conducting raids in a highly aggressive and military-like manner, and with that there seems to have come an upswing in civilian casualties and injuries.

The police may have been within their legal right here. But I think, at a certain point, that becomes irrelevant. It doesn't matter if a police officer is within their legal right if there's something inherently wrong with those laws.

I mean, I get what your saying. Technically they did not break in by the legal definition of the word and they may very well have been within their legal rights. But this is still all around an awful situation and the question of wether or not this should have ever been allowed to happen is an important one to address.

I think that is a very sensible post. It doesn't change a thing in that case however, since unfortunately the rules, no matter how faulty, were in place, and the cops may not have broken any.



Like many have said, a lot of information is missing. We are all assuming that the cops were evil bastards because they apparently shot a dog and scared a grandma. God knows I love animals. And love my grandmother. It touches a nerve.

But let's not get our panties in a wad here. We don't know what happened. Assumptions on both sides.

It's a sad story, assuming the grandma was scarred for life and the animal wasn't aggressive. That doesn't make the cops evil SOBs. They may only have done their job, and done it correctly for all we know (aside from the no-knock thing if they knew a faint-hearted person was inside, and they should have known).
 
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:up: how could she tell if the dog wasn't being aggressive or not if her head was on the ground and her eyes were shut?

Wasn't there another thread with a news article about cops arresting someone and the suspect had a bullet wound in his head in the back of the police car? And a majority if the comments were against the cops and wanted them fired/arrested? This story is coming from a first-person one-sided perspective of a 75 year old woman who was letting her grandson grow marijuana plants in her house. People need to keep an open mind.

I guess most of my skepticism comes from the fact that I in no way see this level of aggression as a reasonable response to that action.
 
A house search is not some chaotic running through a door and around a house while shooting everything down.

The whole "assault" group is divided into small teams, each team has a certain path to follow, a certain area to cover, so that every single cop can make it home alive at the end of the search.

You're suggesting that one or two of these cops could have interrupted their part of the search to run after a wounded dog just to put it down. That would go against every single safety rule in the book.

First, you finish what it is you're supposed to do. Then you take care of the wounded if there's any. You don't put yourself, or people who need you and rely on you for cover, at risk just to put down an animal who's probably running like crazy all over the place in an erratic pattern.

I love animals, but God knows that in that situation the dog could go to hell. I'm not getting killed or getting one of my men killed just to put a dying animal out of its misery.

I would argue that they should. Maybe this is unreasonable, but as a private citizen I have a certain expectation that the police are going to make a certain amount of self sacrifice to make sure the people they've taken an oath to protect are safe. The idea of the police putting their own well being above the safety of civilians or just generally doing the right thing disturbs me. Maybe that's naive of me, but I do feel like people who've taken an oath to protect their community should be willing to make a sacrifice play for that community. Especially in the situation of a marijuana bust, which I see as the single biggest waste of police time and resources. I find it especially disgusting that a dog had to die to keep us "safe" from Car Sagan and Kevin Smith's favorite pass time.

And, of course, there is the issue with how aggressive their entry was. It sems to be that if they'd taken precausions and done a reasonable amount of survailance, none of this would have happened.

I think that is a very sensible post. It doesn't change a thing in that case however, since unfortunately the rules, no matter how faulty, were in place, and the cops may not have broken any.

Then the discussion should be about wether we should change the rules, and in what way. If the rules say this kind of thing is okay, then the rules suck.
 
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I would argue that they should. Maybe this is unreasonable, but as a private citizen I have a certain expectation that the police are going to make a certain amount of self sacrifice to make sure the people they've taken an oath to protect are safe. The idea of the police putting their own well being above the safety of civilians or just generally doing the right thing disturbs me. Maybe that's naive of me, but I do feel like people who've taken an oath to protect their community should be willing to make a sacrifice play for that community.

We are talking about a dog here.

No matter how much one loves animals, cops don't have an oath to put themselves in danger for the sake of a dying animal. I sure would respect a police officer if he did, but I would never expect them to.

Then the discussion should be about wether we should change the rules, and in what way. If the rules say this kind of thing is okay, then the rules suck.

Yes.
 
We are talking about a dog here.

No matter how much one loves animals, cops don't have an oath to put themselves in danger for the sake of a dying animal. I sure would respect a police officer if he did, but I would never expect them to.

Again, it's partly because, the way I see it:

1) If they'd used their heads, you know, done some surveillance and assessed the situation before busting in like a military tactical unit, then they would have probably figured out that that kind of behavior is completely unnecessary. Dog seemed to die because of poor planning on their part.

2) There was no further danger of any kind inside the house, and it seems hard for me to believe that they couldn't have figured that out inside the house.

3) This was a marijuana bust. Arresting people for marijuana possession is the single largest waste of police time and resources. The fact that a dog died to "protect" us from something as objectively harmless as weed really pisses me off.

And, maybe this is just me, but in the end I would kind of expect them to. I feel like the police are supposed to be very heroic in character for the sake of the community. But that is a pretty silly expectation to a certain extent.
 
I guess most of my skepticism comes from the fact that I in no way see this level of aggression as a reasonable response to that action.

If it was a suspected drug house, all law enforcement agencies follow strict procedures for their own safety. There's been plenty of drug houses with people that carry automatic weapons, for all they knew there could have been a few people in the house conducting "business." Every time I hear about a story like this it's always the same: the cops bust down the door wearing bullet proof protection and masks and tell everybody to get on the ground. It's protocol.

The Question said:
3) This was a marijuana bust. Arresting people for marijuana possession is the single largest waste of police time and resources. The fact that a dog died to "protect" us from something as objectively harmless as weed really pisses me off.

It's an illegal drug, whether your opinion on it's ethics differs or not it's still against the law and apparently there was an abundance of it.
 
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It's absolutely terrifying thinking that the majority of people who become police don't do it because they want to help people or protect people... they do it because they love the power and abuse that power for thuggery :(
 
Again, it's partly because, the way I see it:

1) If they'd used their heads, you know, done some surveillance and assessed the situation before busting in like a military tactical unit, then they would have probably figured out that that kind of behavior is completely unnecessary. Dog seemed to die because of poor planning on their part.

There is absolutely no way to say that A/ They didn't plan the search and B/ that they burst in like a military tactical unit.

They're assumptions that the style the article was written in, and the evident bias against the cops in this case, made you think were facts.

And you can plan all you want, there's always what you plan for, and what you end up facing in the real situation. Things can go wrong no matter how prepared you are.

2) There was no further danger of any kind inside the house, and it seems hard for me to believe that they couldn't have figured that out inside the house.

Again, what makes you think that the cops knew there was no longer any danger for them inside the house at the time they shot the dog?

Cops are used to having to deal with booby-trapped apartments, hidden assailants with multiple firearms at their disposal, etc.

You were not with them inside, risking your neck. Even if after the fact it's easy to say "there was no real danger", it's a whole different matter when you're in there, clearing the house room by room, square meter by square meter.

3) This was a marijuana bust. Arresting people for marijuana possession is the single largest waste of police time and resources. The fact that a dog died to "protect" us from something as objectively harmless as weed really pisses me off.

There's marijuana possession, and then there's growing and dealing marijuana. I'm sure the cops wouldn't bother entering a house in force if they only expected to find a couple grams inside a jumper pocket.

Do you know how many marijuana dealers own guns and would not be afraid to use them? It's a risky business.

And, maybe this is just me, but in the end I would kind of expect them to. I feel like the police are supposed to be very heroic in character for the sake of the community. But that is a pretty silly expectation to a certain extent.

Well, I respect your opinion. I just happen to disagree with it. The pain of a dying dog is not worth several human lives. Not even one, actually.

So if in doubt, let the dog die a slower, more painful death, and do what you're expected to do : cover your arse, and that of your partners.

hopefuldreamer said:
It's absolutely terrifying thinking that the majority of people who become police don't do it because they want to help people or protect people... they do it because they love the power and abuse that power for thuggery

If you choose to say such things, you'd better have the numbers to back it up.

The sad fact is simply that out of the millions of people serving in various law enforcement agencies around the world, the minority who will abuse their powers and play cowboys make a hell of a lot more noise than the silent majority who do their jobs correctly.

No one expects the media to talk about the countless house searches that go right. but if one goes wrong, suddenly it's all over the news.

Same thing with everything else really. Most things you see on the news are the few things that go **** up. The rest don't sell enough.
 
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I would consider entering forcefully, by kicking someone's door in (presumably literally breaking it), "breaking in". If you want to argue semantics, go for it.

What exactly stopped the cops from ringing the bell or knocking on the door, and presenting a warrant in a civilized manner? Presumably they know the only occupant is an old infirm woman.

And you're assuming the dog attacked. An assumption. Though presumably any dog would be alarmed if a group of men broke into its house (so indeed, it may have barked at them, or attacked them). Though given all the the police-related dog killings, including shooting a labrador running away from them (or that incident not too long ago, where they shot a "hostile" chihuahua...in its crate), you'll forgive me if I'm a little skeptical.

This could all have been avoided if they had exercised some restraint, and used some common sense.

What stopped the cops from knocking on the door? Probably the type of warrant that was being served. I already mentioned that, but again, typically a warrant where drugs are the contraband being targeted are no-knock warrants. This is done for the safety of the officers and for the hopes that evidence doesnt get destroyed.

I didnt assume anything about the dog attacking. EVERYTIME I said that IF the dog attacked then they were within their rights to shoot it. Anyone shooting a dog that is running away deserved to be punished.

A house search is not some chaotic running through a door and around a house while shooting everything down.

The whole "assault" group is divided into small teams, each team has a certain path to follow, a certain area to cover, so that every single cop can make it home alive at the end of the search.

You're suggesting that one or two of these cops could have interrupted their part of the search to run after a wounded dog just to put it down. That would go against every single safety rule in the book.

First, you finish what it is you're supposed to do. Then you take care of the wounded if there's any. You don't put yourself, or people who need you and rely on you for cover, at risk just to put down an animal who's probably running like crazy all over the place in an erratic pattern.

I love animals, but God knows that in that situation the dog could go to hell. I'm not getting killed or getting one of my men killed just to put a dying animal out of its misery.


THIS X 100. I have been a part of entry teams on drug warrants and other no-knock warrants. If I had left my section that I was assigned or the other officer that I was supposed to be working with to go put a dog that had been shot out of its misery, I would be scolded, possibly disciplined in some way after the fact and maybe even told not to be a part of these teams since I cant follow orders/protocol.


Again, it's partly because, the way I see it:

1) If they'd used their heads, you know, done some surveillance and assessed the situation before busting in like a military tactical unit, then they would have probably figured out that that kind of behavior is completely unnecessary. Dog seemed to die because of poor planning on their part.

2) There was no further danger of any kind inside the house, and it seems hard for me to believe that they couldn't have figured that out inside the house.

3) This was a marijuana bust. Arresting people for marijuana possession is the single largest waste of police time and resources. The fact that a dog died to "protect" us from something as objectively harmless as weed really pisses me off.

And, maybe this is just me, but in the end I would kind of expect them to. I feel like the police are supposed to be very heroic in character for the sake of the community. But that is a pretty silly expectation to a certain extent.

#1-There may have been a need for better or more surveillance, again we dont know for sure. And again, sometimes surveillance cant be conducted as well as it should or it has to end at some point before the warrant is executed. There are lots of variables and things that we dont know about this situation and may never know. But "busting in like a military tactical unit" is the way they handle these types of warrants, regardless. God knows the one time they use a half-measure is the one time that they get killed.

Here is a first hand personal example:
In 2008, I was part of a team with a drug warrant on a crack dealer. This dealer just so happened to be confined to a wheelchair. We learned through intel that he usually kept a gun and other weapons in his wheelchair. So, we decided that when we got to him wherever he was in the house, we would get him off the wheelchair and to the ground immediately. So that is what we did and sure enough, he was sitting on a .38 revolver. Now, to the outside observer, it may have looked like we were abusing a poor handicapped man, but in fact, we took the necessary action to prevent anyone of our team (or him) from getting hurt.

That information about him having weapons in the wheelchair came from intel we gathered. HOWEVER, what we did would have been the policy ANYWAY. You enter the house and get every person you come in contact with on the floor immediately and start restraining them. We just wanted to make sure that nobody treated him any differently because he is in a wheelchair.

#2 We dont know at what point the dog was shot, whether they had cleared the entire house or not.

#3 The way the story reads, this is about someone manufacturing marijuana, which is a MUCH heftier crime than any simple possession. Regardless if how you feel about marijuana, manufacturing it and possessing it (with a few exceptions which do not appear to apply to this case) is 100% illegal.

And again, lets remember where this all begins, the grandson, who is allegedly growing or storing marijuana in this house.


If it was a suspected drug house, all law enforcement agencies follow strict procedures for their own safety. There's been plenty of drug houses with people that carry automatic weapons, for all they knew there could have been a few people in the house conducting "business." Every time I hear about a story like this it's always the same: the cops bust down the door wearing bullet proof protection and masks and tell everybody to get on the ground. It's protocol.

It's an illegal drug, whether your opinion on it's ethics differs or not it's still against the law and apparently there was an abundance of it.

^ This x100.


It's absolutely terrifying thinking that the majority of people who become police don't do it because they want to help people or protect people... they do it because they love the power and abuse that power for thuggery :(

I REALLY hope that this is sarcasm.

If not, thanks for making an assumption about thousands of people who get paid very little to put up with a bunch of BS from regular citizens and full blown criminals, deal with life threatening situations (or at least the chance of them) on a fairly regular basis, only to be criticized publicly often when there is a mistake made or the assumption that a mistake is made by people who usually dont know the law or police procedures.
 
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It's absolutely terrifying thinking that the majority of people who become police don't do it because they want to help people or protect people... they do it because they love the power and abuse that power for thuggery :(

I find your statement to be extremely ignorant on the facts of what law enforcement does, and the people who are a part of our first responders.

Unless you have evidence that the "majority" are like this....why would you make such a ridiculous statement?
 
It's absolutely terrifying thinking that the majority of people who become police don't do it because they want to help people or protect people... they do it because they love the power and abuse that power for thuggery :(

That statement is incredibly offensive and ignorant.
 
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If it was a suspected drug house, all law enforcement agencies follow strict procedures for their own safety. There's been plenty of drug houses with people that carry automatic weapons, for all they knew there could have been a few people in the house conducting "business." Every time I hear about a story like this it's always the same: the cops bust down the door wearing bullet proof protection and masks and tell everybody to get on the ground. It's protocol.


It may be protocol, but my point is that the protocol stinks. Police are enacting more and more aggressive, military like behavior in these situations and it seems to be resulting in an upswing of civilian injuries and deaths.


It is true that there have been plenty of drug houses full of guns. There are also plenty of drug houses where it's just a college student with a bunch of heat lamps.


It's an illegal drug, whether your opinion on it's ethics differs or not it's still against the law and apparently there was an abundance of it.


I know it's an illegal drug. But it shouldn't be, and the way law enforcememnt deals with it is completely wrongheaded.


My big complaint is that this happened because they were enforcing a dumb law that doesn't help anyone, which makes it a complete waste.

1-There may have been a need for better or more surveillance, again we dont know for sure. And again, sometimes surveillance cant be conducted as well as it should or it has to end at some point before the warrant is executed. There are lots of variables and things that we dont know about this situation and may never know. But "busting in like a military tactical unit" is the way they handle these types of warrants, regardless. God knows the one time they use a half-measure is the one time that they get killed.

I know that. I totally get that. But my point is that it really should not be the case.

I'm not denying that there are definitely situations where that kind of response is necessary. But that kind of response is used in a lot of situations where it isn't. The police force has, over the last several years, become increasingly like a military force, which is incredibly dangerous because their duties are not military duties. They're not in a warzone battling a highly trained enemy, they're enforcing the law within the civivlian population.

There are definitely times when one has to act with military precision, but if that's the standard operating procedure what you end up with is a lot of dead civilians.

Here is a first hand personal example:
In 2008, I was part of a team with a drug warrant on a crack dealer. This dealer just so happened to be confined to a wheelchair. We learned through intel that he usually kept a gun and other weapons in his wheelchair. So, we decided that when we got to him wherever he was in the house, we would get him off the wheelchair and to the ground immediately. So that is what we did and sure enough, he was sitting on a .38 revolver. Now, to the outside observer, it may have looked like we were abusing a poor handicapped man, but in fact, we took the necessary action to prevent anyone of our team (or him) from getting hurt.

That seems completely reasonable to me.

That information about him having weapons in the wheelchair came from intel we gathered. HOWEVER, what we did would have been the policy ANYWAY. You enter the house and get every person you come in contact with on the floor immediately and start restraining them. We just wanted to make sure that nobody treated him any differently because he is in a wheelchair.

You see, I have a problem with that. Again, there are definitely situations where that kind of force is necessary, but using it all the time seems very dangerous to me.

#3 The way the story reads, this is about someone manufacturing marijuana, which is a MUCH heftier crime than any simple possession. Regardless if how you feel about marijuana, manufacturing it and possessing it (with a few exceptions which do not appear to apply to this case) is 100% illegal.

And again, lets remember where this all begins, the grandson, who is allegedly growing or storing marijuana in this house.

But the thing is it shouldn't be illegal. I know that as the law is written they were doing what they were supposed to do, but my whole point is that there's a problem with how the law is written. The illegality of marijuana is a big part of that.

Marijuana is harmless. Growing it is harmless. Smoking it is harmless. Selling it is harmless. The only reason it ever causes harm is a direct result of it being illegal. People are getting hurt, going to jail, killing and dying over nothing. That shouldn't be disregarded.

You're right, it's very likely that all around, the police were in the legal right in this situation.

But then that means there's a problem with the law.

I find your statement to be extremely ignorant on the facts of what law enforcement does, and the people who are a part of our first responders.

Unless you have evidence that the "majority" are like this....why would you make such a ridiculous statement?


A lot of people's only encounters with law enforcement are at the business end of a night stick. I really can't blame them for holding that opinion if that's their point of reference.


I really can't say wether the majority of cops are *******s or not, I haven't seen those stats and they'd probably be very difficult to gather.


But wether or not bad cops are the majority or the minority, accountability for police misconduct is a serious problem in the United States. A lot of police officers get away with some pretty horrific **** these days. Maybe it's just a small minority, but the fact that it happens at all is a huge problem.
 
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I waqnt to make it clear, I don't hate cops. Most of the cops I've encountered were pretty swell people. But I feel like there is a legitimate problem in the current laws and how police officers are held accountable for misconduct.
 
I want weed legalized. Throwing people in prison for smoking pot, while cancer-causing cigarettes are legally bought and sold every day makes no sense and is entirely hypocritical.
 
The Question said:
I'm not denying that there are definitely situations where that kind of response is necessary. But that kind of response is used in a lot of situations where it isn't. The police force has, over the last several years, become increasingly like a military force, which is incredibly dangerous because their duties are not military duties. They're not in a warzone battling a highly trained enemy, they're enforcing the law within the civivlian population.

There are definitely times when one has to act with military precision, but if that's the standard operating procedure what you end up with is a lot of dead civilians.

And if they didn't, we'd end up with a lot of dead cops. How can you blame them for not taking unnecessary risks?

Everybody and their grandmas have a gun nowadays. It takes a few clicks to find out how to make bombs. The uniform is not respected anymore. These procedures simply reflect the society as it is.

It doesn't matter who started the "escalation process". The fact is that we are all much more exposed to violence nowadays than we ever were in recent history. The cops (and other law enforcement agencies) are at the frontline, picking up the pieces, picking up the trash, picking up the blame when things go wrong. That can't be right.

When these guys get inside a house, they cannot be sure they'll all come back out. Even if surveillance showed that the house belonged to some 70 year old faint-hearted woman. Doesn't mean the drug dealer is not inside, with a shotgun in his hands. Or that the nice little puppy the grandma has been walking every morning for the whole week of surveillance wasn't trained to attack any stranger attempting to enter the house.

How can the cops be blamed if they don't leave any chance to anybody to put them or their colleagues in a coffin? They have to act like this. You don't take chances with your life, especially not if it's because one of your superiors sent you to arrest some dumbass marijuana dealer who lives in his grandma's basement. Some guy you certainly don't give a rat's arse about.

As for the marijuana being illegal and the necessity to make it legal, it's not up to these cops. Their job is to enforce the law, period. They're not there to discuss it. I'm sure there are cops who smoke weed and would love to see it legalized, but that's not part of the equation in this case.

Just because they're going in to stop some marijuana dealer, they're not gonna go easy on him and risk being shot just because "the law sucks and weed should be legal." Some marijuana dealers have shown they could be violent. therefore, any one of them should be treated as a potential threat until they are incapacitated.
 
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And if they didn't, we'd end up with a lot of dead cops. How can you blame them for not taking unnecessary risks?

Everybody and their grandmas have a gun nowadays. It takes a few clicks to find out how to make bombs. The uniform is not respected anymore. These procedures simply reflect the society as it is.

It doesn't matter who started the "escalation process". The fact is that we are all much more exposed to violence nowadays than we ever were in recent history. The cops (and other law enforcement agencies) are at the frontline, picking up the pieces, picking up the trash, picking up the blame when things go wrong. That can't be right.

When these guys get inside a house, they cannot be sure they'll all come back out.

How can they be blamed if they don't leave any chance to anybody to put them or their colleagues in a coffin? They have to act like this. You don't take chances with your life, especially not if it's because one of your superiors sent you to arrest some dumbass marijuana dealer who lives in his grandma's basement. Some guy you certainly don't give a rat's arse about.

As for the marijuana being illegal and the necessity to make it legal, it's not up to these cops. Their job is to enforce the law, period. They're not there to discuss it. I'm sure there are cops who smoke weed and would love to see it legalized, but that's not part of the equation in this case.

Just because they're going in to stop some marijuana dealer, they're not gonna go easy on him and risk being shot just because "the law sucks and weed should be legal."

Great post and agreed 100%.
 
:up: how could she tell if the dog wasn't being aggressive or not if her head was on the ground and her eyes were shut?

Wasn't there another thread with a news article about cops arresting someone and the suspect had a bullet wound in his head in the back of the police car? And a majority if the comments were against the cops and wanted them fired/arrested? This story is coming from a first-person one-sided perspective of a 75 year old woman who was letting her grandson grow marijuana plants in her house. People need to keep an open mind.


Well I suppose she could hear the dog barking or growling. I don't think we have enough details to speculate. This is very similar to what went down in the other thread. We were told one side of the story and found out the truth a week later.
 
A lot of people's only encounters with law enforcement are at the business end of a night stick. I really can't blame them for holding that opinion if that's their point of reference.

That's a silly as any other type of prejudicial stereotyping and deserves as much contempt.
 
Well, obviously there is a need for law enforcement. But the sheer number of cases of police brutality is staggering (not to mention collateral damage). We are seeing this more and more as police are becoming increasingly militarized. These are not isolated incidents. Police abuse is becoming increasingly common.

However, clearly a large number of people in this thread support such tactics, so, it's not going to change any time soon.

There is very little (if any) oversight. Egregious offenses (such as tasering an unarmed 16-year old with a learning disability to death) go unpunished. And the few that do, usually get slaps on the wrist.

But at least they got the right house this time. There have been several cases where they broke into the wrong house (and killed the dogs anyway).
 
It's absolutely terrifying thinking that the majority of people who become police don't do it because they want to help people or protect people... they do it because they love the power and abuse that power for thuggery :(

Good to know you are psychic and know why the majority of cops became cops.

The majority? Do you realize how sweeping a statement that is?
 
However, clearly a large number of people in this thread support such tactics, so, it's not going to change any time soon.

Not agreeing with vilifying everyone wearing a uniform doesn't mean agreeing with police brutality either.
 
Oh, good. Another obviously biased, poorly written sensationalist news article. And a bunch of people who didn’t bother to think this through getting highly outraged because after all, remember the old adage, “always believe the media” and “There is one side to every story”.

Oh, the outrage!

This woman is 75. That’s 75, not 120. History of strokes or not, she’s obviously not too enfeebled to get indignant about what happened…which probably means she’s not too enfeebled to know she’s living in a house where criminal activity goes on in some fashion.

If the dog was indeed running around and off through the house, how can they have been sure it was “mortally wounded”? Not chasing after a dog when you have no clue who else is in the house…and when you have a job to do…that’s one of those tough decisions you have to make as a police officer. Like whether to shoot the dog in the first place.

It's absolutely terrifying thinking that the majority of people who become police don't do it because they want to help people or protect people... they do it because they love the power and abuse that power for thuggery

Yes. It is absolutely terrifying to think that.

Luckily that’s just not the case. At all.

A lot of people's only encounters with law enforcement are at the business end of a night stick. I really can't blame them for holding that opinion if that's their point of reference.

You don’t blame them for making a sweeping decision about the majority of police officers based on only their personal experiences?

Well, obviously there is a need for law enforcement. But the sheer number of cases of police brutality is staggering (not to mention collateral damage). We are seeing this more and more as police are becoming increasingly militarized. These are not isolated incidents. Police abuse is becoming increasingly common.

Staggering?

However, clearly a large number of people in this thread support such tactics, so, it's not going to change any time soon.

I don’t see anyone here supporting police brutality. Appropriate use of force, maybe.

There is very little (if any) oversight. Egregious offenses (such as tasering an unarmed 16-year old with a learning disability to death) go unpunished. And the few that do, usually get slaps on the wrist.

While cops occasionally go unpunished…the first part of that is more or less untrue. Police Departments tend to have very strict, very severe oversight in a lot of respects. Most Police Departments don’t stand for that kind of thing for very long, or at all.

What gives these ****ers the right to kill someones pet?

The fact that if dogs are aggressive, by law they are allowed to shoot them.

They went in with masks on. That makes them robbers.

Only if they went in with masks on and stole something…

They killed her dog. That makes them murderers.

It depends on the reason they killed her dog.

They did this to a woman, a 75 year old woman. That makes them ****s.

Cops aren’t supposed to discriminate due to age. Anyone can kill them or be a suspect or accessory.

They didn't say who they were until it was over. That gives her the right to sue.

No it doesn’t.

They scared her so bad she pissed herself. That makes them douce-****s. A rare breed indeed.

That makes them cops. Cops scare some people. Some situations are scary.

She has the right to lawyer up.

Anyone at pretty much any time has the right to lawyer up, even if they don’t have a case. That doesn’t really mean anything.

More and more, it seems to me that people seem to hate cops because they don’t understand police work and culture, period. Anytime something like this is reported, a lot of silly statements and assumptions and misconceptions pop up.
 
Not agreeing with vilifying everyone wearing a uniform doesn't mean agreeing with police brutality either.

I don't think we're reading the same responses.

We (not you and I but some other forum members) had a similar discussion during the occupy wall street protests, where the police were pepper spraying non-violent protestors (who weren't even standing) until they threw up blood.

Some people here clearly have no problem with excessive force.
 
I'm not one to excuse everything a police officer does, but I'd really like to see people who are so flippant in their criticisms of police to go through basic training and actually see what they have to do first hand. Like a month ago when police in NYC shot and killed the man who was waving around an 11-inch knife and refusing to put it down. It's just maddening to hear people say "They should have just shot him in the leg." They're trained to shoot at the chest because it's a larger target and easier to hit and in this case their response was absolutely the right thing to do.

As a dog owner, I don't like hearing this story. I have a golden retriever who will bark and cry at strangers only because he's excited and loves people. I'd hate to think that a police officer would interpret this as aggression and shoot him for it. At the same time, I know that they have to do this to protect themselves and fellow officers.
 
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