Comics D-DAY!!! Civil War #2....confirmation. SPOILERS

[Cullen]

Um, yes it is. This thread is from the Spidey comics forum...and in there are two threads. One for people who support the unmasking and those who support to keep it.

It's split here.

If it's split here than it's going to be split everywhere.

And fans in general are split down the middle too.

I understand some people are upset but don't go taking it out on people who can find ways to enjoy something that you're not.

Excuse me, but weren't you the one rubbing this storyline in people's faces? Aren't you the happy little hypocrite?

 

[Cullen]

And in a universe where a regular guy got super powers from being bit by a radioactive spider...well, I'd say that there are a ton of other ways they can put the cat into the bag.

If you really think they are going to keep the mask off of him, then keep thinking that.

But I highly doubt that they will keep the mask off of him.

With the Quesada/JMS comments and with Jeph Loeb coming onto an ongoing Spider-Man book...I really don't see them keeping this up for too long.

As of right now, signs point to them keeping the mask off. All you've come up with is speculation.

Granted, some of it sounds good, but still...

 

[Cullen]

Well, I know you are in favor of the Peter Parker unmasking because it allows for certain kinds of stories to be told and I'm against it mainly because it damages the "ordinary guy behind the mask" component that's been in place for 40 plus years and is what made Spidey a popular character to begin with, at least we both agree that, sooner or later, it will be undone.

However, here's another problem that I see on the horizon. And that is that Marvel has essentially taken Peter in a direction in which that the only solution HAS TO BE a "mindwipe" of some sort in order to get Spidey back to a point where it somewhat resembles his traditional status quo. And this is going to anger and alienate those who actually like this development, just as they have angered and alienate those that do not. And as a result, those elusive new readers, who are familiar with Spidey based on material other than comics, are going to feel either lost or find that the character of Spider-Man is nothing like what they may have known from those outside sources. If they haven't already.

Sure, this was bound to happen sooner or later that we we're going to get a "everyone now knows Peter Parker is Spider-Man" story eventually; Howard Mackie even said that back in the early 90s, this idea WAS on the table but Tom DeFlaco rejected it because the reaction would've been by the general public in the comic "Who is Peter Parker? I don't care what his real name is. He's still a hero/meance." Also, we will certainly get reactions from Spidey's classic supporting cast which have been all but neglected based on what the writers over on the New Joe's Fridays panel were talking about. Essentially, the storyline is going to go something like this:

1. Peter Parker reveals he's Spider-Man
2. Everyone who ever knew Peter that didn't all ready know this is shocked.
3. Peter Parker becomes a celebrity superhero and the "everyman" symbol for the registration act. The Bugle, much to Jonah's consternation and objections, promotes Spidey as a hero.
4. However, The Daily Bugle begins having credibility problems because of Jonah's past anti-Spidey articles, causing circulation to dwindle; this results in cooperate downsizing in order to keep the Paper afloat.
5. Flash follows Peter around like a groupie, while Aunt May, Mary Jane, and Peter are assigned bodyguards.
6. Peter still teaches, but after the attacks from Doc Ock and Mysterio, the school, under pressure from parents, fires Peter, not wanting to but kids in further danger.
7. Villians led by the Chameleon attempt the first attack on Spidey's family, and fail. This makes Peter regret having ever disclosed his identity.
8. The general public is just as divided over whether or not Spider-Man is a hero or menace, making Aunt May say "I don't understand. Can't they see my nephew is a hero?"
9. Peter begins to see that he may have choosen the wrong side in Civil War due to the various actions committed by the proponents of registration.
10. The Green Goblin, feeling cheated that his arch-enemy has removed his trump card, gathers a group of various villains in a two-proned assult. One against Spidey himself and another against Spidey's family.
11. Unlike the Chameleon's assult, THIS TIME, it results in either Aunt May or Mary Jane being critically wounded, in a coma, and on the verge of death. THIS will be the last straw for Peter, and he quits the registration side. Unfortunately, this makes him in violation of his agreement and he's branded an outlaw.
12. He then learns that the Riverbank Massacre was a set-up orchestrated by the "shadow government" (for lack of a better word) that created the super-villains in order to get the heroes in their back pocket--Agent Hill was also in on the conspiracy--and guaranteeing that registration would get passed. However, they underestimated Captain America.
13. Peter ends up leading a group of heroes to save Cap or something, an all out battle ensues, but then it is realized that Baron Zemo is leading a coup attempt and it is stopped. But it's too late. A major character dies as a result.
14. Because of both of these things, there is distrust fostered among the heroes. Now there are two ways this could then go:

A. The Doctor Strange mindwipe scenario that I thought up here:http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2081770&postcount=203
(And no this would NOT erase the events that transpired in Civil War like the Riverbank Massacre or registration, nor would it erase the memory that the general public DID once know Spider-Man's real identity.)

or B. Peter Parker goes into hiding to evade the authorities, a la Richard Kimble in the Fugative. Based on Joe Q's comments about "not using a mind-wipe ray" and exploring this new status quo for "a year and a-half," this seems like the most likely road they'll take before Marvel is forced to resort to option 1 once they realize that Spider-Man needs to go back to the "ordinary guy behind the mask trying to balance an ordinary life with his being a superhero" template. Especially when folks see Spider-Man 3 and Marvel tries to capitalize on it by making the comics fit the movie once again.

And all the while, long time readers, causal readers, new readers, and eventually even some Marvel Zombies will feel cheated and used, just like what happened during the Clone Saga.

George Santayana: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Why do I post here? I mean, honestly? You do such a good job at this that it puts my rambling nonsense to shame. I am appalled by my inadequacy. In fact, its safe to say that most of the board is appalled by my inadequacy. And this point doesn't help things.

I'm going off to sulk.

 

[stillanerd]

^^^
Well, you've finished a novel which I have yet to do, so that counts for something in your favor.

BTW, Cullen, and all you other posters out there, remember THIS thread:

"What Could Happen to Spider-Man after Civil War?"

While certainly SOME THINGS aren't going to happen that have been stated here, note that this is TWO MONTHS OLD.

 

[SpideyInATree]

As of right now, signs point to them keeping the mask off. All you've come up with is speculation.

Granted, some of it sounds good, but still...

And all you and everybody else are speculating as well. How do you know it's going to be horrible and how do you know where they are going with it?

 

[SpideyInATree]

Excuse me, but weren't you the one rubbing this storyline in people's faces? Aren't you the happy little hypocrite?

Yes, to the people who rubbed in my face that I'm not a real Spider-Man fan because I liked something that they didn't.

Not everybody is innocent because they share the same view points.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Splitting your fanbase in half is the worst decision you could ever make. Ever.

Thinking that is a GOOD thing is dumb. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

[savemarvel]

Actually it was. Just because you think the story is well handled, doesn't mean people are mad because they are getting "a story" It was a dumb thing to say.

And I'm not too angry and upset over this. I'm angry and upset over the stupid things supporters of this story are saying. Fundamentally what you are saying is there is something wrong with my opinion. "If you weren't so mad you'd see things my way" is suggesting there is something wrong with it.

Even if I was a calm, cool headed person, which we both know i'm not, I'd be saying the same damn thing.

The fact Spider-man is a fictional character is irrelavent. I would like to read new, good Spider-man stories from my Spider-man in my lifetime. They ain't doing it. It's time for a change.

That's true.

 

[Spider-X]

i'm just interested in where they are f'ing going with this...i'm suspending my judgement until further light has been shed...but as it stands right now...i'm worried.

however, i did buy CIVIL WAR #2 because of this landmark situation, which might have been the only reason for the unmasking in the first place: $Sales$...but i don't know...we'll see where this goes.

i just find it hard to pass up a comic like this...no matter how you slice it, it is pretty historic.

 

[Cullen]

And all you and everybody else are speculating as well. How do you know it's going to be horrible and how do you know where they are going with it?

Simplly based on past experience with the writer and editors in question. Other than that... well... You've got a point.

 

[Cullen]

And all you and everybody else are speculating as well. How do you know it's going to be horrible and how do you know where they are going with it?

According to stillanerd, the mask comes back on in the near future. Check it out here.

Who would have thought Marvel had sense, after "The Other"? Still, the source of this information is Kevin Smith. How reliable is that?

 

[MattXG]

It means that every issue from now on will feature Spidey having to fight a different villian(s) that are after MJ, Aunt May, the staff at the Daily Bugle, the students at his school, or anyone else he knows! Now, we get to endure month after month of "Which villian will kill off MJ" threads and discussions!

Pardon me while I proceed to vomit.

Oh now....its not like you haven't gone 40+ years of "Got to keep my ID secret" and "OMG! Who will find out my secret ID this week." stories.

I don't really like the move myself but I am curious to see where it goes. It atleast is something new. Compared to the **** they have been doing this is terrific....well for 616 anyway....

 

[SpideyInATree]

According to stillanerd, the mask comes back on in the near future. Check it out here.

Who would have thought Marvel had sense, after "The Other"? Still, the source of this information is Kevin Smith. How reliable is that?

Well, it's good to see that Marvel pretty much made themselves a back door for this and learned their lesson from the Clone Saga debacle.

And why wouldn't Kevin Smith be a reliable source? Doesn't he hang out with Quesada a lot on a personal basis? And other comic guys from Marvel? Or is that someone else?

 

[stillanerd]

Well, it's good to see that Marvel pretty much made themselves a back door for this and learned their lesson from the Clone Saga debacle.

Question is though, how convouluted will the solution be to make Peter identity secret again, considering HOW Peter revealed he was Spider-Man.

And why wouldn't Kevin Smith be a reliable source? Doesn't he hang out with Quesada a lot on a personal basis? And other comic guys from Marvel? Or is that someone else?

Perhaps it's due to Smith's botched-up job on his Spider-Man/Black Cat the Evil That Men Do mini series that was THREE YEARS in the making. Even so, a lot of the planning for Civil War was taking place right around the time the last three parts were released, so I'm sure he sat it on some of the mettings when they discussed Spidey's direction.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Question is though, how convouluted will the solution be to make Peter identity secret again, considering HOW Peter revealed he was Spider-Man.

Perhaps it's due to Smith's botched-up job on his Spider-Man/Black Cat the Evil That Men Do mini series that was THREE YEARS in the making. Even so, a lot of the planning for Civil War was taking place right around the time the last three parts were released, so I'm sure he sat it on some of the mettings when they discussed Spidey's direction.

I don't know what the solution is or how it will effect it. Maybe it'll be a good solution and make everybody happy. ALWAYS thinking negatively!

And, once again, what does Kevin Smith being late on a comic book have to do with whether or not he's a reliable source of information? As you said, he may have sat down in meetings or just overheard while there, etc.

He may be blowing smoke up people's asses, but why?

 

[MaraJanesSlave]

Sorry to tangent here, but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't Peter supposed to become a government employee as part of the registration act? If so, why would he need to go back to teaching? Wouldn't he be getting a check from Uncle Sam? And isn't he also on Stark's payroll? Is this teaching thing now a "calling" like being Spider-Man and not something he does to pay the bills? I'm scratching my head a bit over this.

~Mara Jane

 

[SpideyInATree]

Sorry to tangent here, but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't Peter supposed to become a government employee as part of the registration act? If so, why would he need to go back to teaching? Wouldn't he be getting a check from Uncle Sam? And isn't he also on Stark's payroll? Is this teaching thing now a "calling" like being Spider-Man and not something he does to pay the bills? I'm scratching my head a bit over this.

~Mara Jane

I'm kind of confused about that myself. One second he's a teacher. Another second he's back working for the Bugle. Then he's a teacher again. Then he's working for Stark. And now he's a teacher again...aparently.

They need to find a profession and have him freakin' stick with it.

And with the mask off photographer for the Daily Bugle is definitely out.

 

[Norman Osborn]

Sorry to tangent here, but correct me if I'm wrong, isn't Peter supposed to become a government employee as part of the registration act? If so, why would he need to go back to teaching? Wouldn't he be getting a check from Uncle Sam? And isn't he also on Stark's payroll? Is this teaching thing now a "calling" like being Spider-Man and not something he does to pay the bills? I'm scratching my head a bit over this.

~Mara Jane

I don't know about the teaching thingy....that part of pete's life is about as consistently written as my diet is consistently adhered to...and yes presently I am eating a twinkie!!....

...but as for Stark's payroll......in the beginning of the New Avengers all the members were told that there was to be no stipend paid....and I don't think that was changed for Peter after agreeing to be Stark's assistant.....but I only read the Washington story at a drug store so I could be mistaken.

 

[stillanerd]

I don't know what the solution is or how it will effect it. Maybe it'll be a good solution and make everybody happy. ALWAYS thinking negatively!

What can I say, I'm a bit cynical about everything.

And, once again, what does Kevin Smith being late on a comic book have to do with whether or not he's a reliable source of information? As you said, he may have sat down in meetings or just overheard while there, etc.

Exactly! What I was pointing out that some people lost faith in him with regards to his Evil That Men Do series, which, you're right, really has nothing to do with whether or not he's reliable. Heck, I was convinced of his credibility when he told the behind scenes story of "Superman Lives" (which is HILARIOUS if you ever manage to see it).

He may be blowing smoke up people's asses, but why?

Well, I DON'T think he's doing that, but I do think he's sticking it to Joe Q a little bit by "revealing" that the unmasked Spidey is temporary. From what I understand, they didn't part on good terms.

I'm kind of confused about that myself. One second he's a teacher. Another second he's back working for the Bugle. Then he's a teacher again. Then he's working for Stark. And now he's a teacher again...aparently.

They need to find a profession and have him freakin' stick with it.

And with the mask off photographer for the Daily Bugle is definitely out.

Well, with the mask off, it's ridiculous that the school would even keep him on as a teacher, considering how he could attract various villains to the school (which it looks like that happens) not to mention that the Riverbank Massacre took place at a school.

And actually, I didn't mind that Peter had two jobs, considering that a public high school teacher isn't exactly a lucrative income and that the other job was strictly freelance photography. Although it would've made far more sense if MJ wasn't an actress and they lived in an apartment where they actually had to pay rent.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

I don't know about the teaching thingy....that part of pete's life is about as consistently written as my diet is consistently adhered to...and yes presently I am eating a twinkie!!....

...but as for Stark's payroll......in the beginning of the New Avengers all the members were told that there was to be no stipend paid....and I don't think that was changed for Peter after agreeing to be Stark's assistant.....but I only read the Washington story at a drug store so I could be mistaken.

methinks you are wrong. i think being tony's assistant proper tony asked him formally so there must be some type of payment going on. But as to the avengers not getting paid? he was living in avengers tower (or watever its called - stark tower - sentry's tower. argh...) and eating their food. only upon seein wolvie coming onto his wife did pete suddenly realise they all needed money.

PS -- ever find out where the insurance money for their house in Queens went? or didnt they have supervillain insurance?

 

[Norman Osborn]

methinks you are wrong. i think being tony's assistant proper tony asked him formally so there must be some type of payment going on.

Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong...certainly won't be the last....I just don't recall Stark mentioning a pay cheque although it would make sense since he's screwing them out of an Avenger's pay cheque.

PS -- ever find out where the insurance money for their house in Queens went? or didnt they have supervillain insurance?

Well Pete apparently had over 10,000 in his savings accounts he was about to skip out of town with.......Pro-Bono Avenger, Freelance Photographer and substitute teaching must be paying well?....or.....nahhhhhhh!!

 

[MyPokerShirt]

Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong...certainly won't be the last....I just don't recall Stark mentioning a pay cheque although it would make sense since he's screwing them out of an Avenger's pay cheque.

i dont think an actual patcheck was mentioned just something along the lines of "why dont u formally work for me" as opposed to being an aveneger. knowin pete tho, he'd work for free due to, yknow, tony not askin im for rent/food money...

Well Pete apparently had over 10,000 in his savings accounts he was about to skip out of town with.......Pro-Bono Avenger, Freelance Photographer and substitute teaching must be paying well?....or.....nahhhhhhh!!

ha! guess so, but that house musta been insured for thousands.. and essentially the supervillain just smashed/burnt it down. u think they wuda got sumthin -- tho wud that be Aunt May's money?

 

[NateGray]

Um, yes it is. This thread is from the Spidey comics forum...and in there are two threads. One for people who support the unmasking and those who support to keep it.

It's split here.

If it's split here than it's going to be split everywhere.

And fans in general are split down the middle too.

I understand some people are upset but don't go taking it out on people who can find ways to enjoy something that you're not.

You know I just have to throw this out there for you because I want to see how you spin this.

Say you are right and its split (I think its mor elike 70/30 or 60/40) but either way for sake of argument we will say its split.

Were the people who like the unmasking going to drop spiderman titles if he didn't unmask? I highly doubt it.

Are people who do not like the idea of the unmasking going to drop spiderman titles you bet your ass they are how many is the only question.

Now based on that do you really think it was a smart move for them to risk loosing say half of the people who do not like the unmasking? or heck even half of the half that does not like the unmasking quit spiderman titles do you still think it was a smart business move? if so I have some land in Flordia I want to sell you....

 

[MyPokerShirt]

i think people dropping titles because they dont like tem is fine. but people to drop them angrily, as if theyre offended and do it in (false) hope of making a difference is rediculous. the unmasking will not harm spider-man books. it might contribute to their harm, but it wont harm them.

 

[Norman Osborn]

the unmasking will not harm spider-man books. it might contribute to their harm, but it wont harm them.

Please re-write this or my head'll explode.....just pulling your chain...I knew what you meant

I think what some of us forget is the concussive effect that the writing on Spidey titles has caused on some of the people who have decided to drop the titles .....

....in short I think we're seeing less of "I'm dropping all titles because of the umasking" and more "I'm dropping all the titles because the unmasking is the last straw!!"......

.....to qualify.....If ASM had consistently been putting out top notch books and stories (instead of Iron Spidey, Sins Past, Skin Deep, the Other etc...).....I doubt if anybody would be dropping the books because of the un-masking....sure they'd still be upset about it, but Marvel would have earned a "let's give it a chance" mulligan as opposed to the "F%^& you Marvel, fool me once......etc" stigma they've willingly and knowingly attached themselves with......just my opinion