Dark/Evil Illuminati?

[The Question]

Other than the fact that Loki's still a woman, which irritates me a little more every time I see it, this looks fairly interesting. I'm curious about what turns Emma and Namor on the heroes, if indeed the "Evilluminati" is targeting heroes. They could be less evil than we suspect.

On the other hand, if they are evil, that means Loki will be "out" by then and not pretending to be good to everyone. That'll be a nice change. The doe-eyed innocent routine is wearing pretty thin, and it'll be good to have Balder not following Loki like a ****** anymore.

I'm still hoping that Doom's Illuminati is simply meant to save the world Doom's way.

 

[Mr. Green]

I just don't understand the need to turn Doom into a "something"-ist in order to make him mean and evil. He became a racist in Black Panther, and now here he's being a misogynist. I'm not gonna go around claiming "ZOMG THAT'S SO OUT OF CHARACTER HE WOULD NEVER DO THAT" or something but, all the same, it just reads so wrong. It's like something that the Julian McMahon movie version of Doom would say.

He's not being a misogynist. He's not talking to her like that just because she's a woman. It's because she is the leader of the Avengers and the Avengers just busted into his castle and started ****ing everything up. He's letting her know that in the grand scheme of things (Doom's scheme of things) she is completely meaningless. Her life or death simply doesn't matter to him at all. And yeah, he isn't being too nice about it.

Plus, watching Doom and Stark's armor and seing the similarities/differences were cool. Not to mention the fact that Bendis can write the **** out of comic and I don't care what anyone says.

 

[BrianWilly]

Calling someone a fat cow and a ****e is a culturally gender-specific term of belittlement in almost, well, every single culture I can think of, of which the gender is female. Are you going to tell me that he would have called Ares or Wonder Man the same? Of course not.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Calling someone a fat cow and a ****e is a culturally gender-specific term of belittlement in almost, well, every single culture I can think of, of which the gender is female. Are you going to tell me that he would have called Ares or Wonder Man the same? Of course not.

If he did, he'd reach a completely new level of cool. Especially if he said that to ares.

 

[Specter313]

That's what I was thinking. With the exception of The Hood, who'd probably just roll with them for power, this evil Illuminati seems to be comprised of individuals who've, in the past, shown both altruistic goals and very questionable means. Even Loki, who in ancient times often played the role of the trickster hero and friend of humanity. That was all just drowned out and forgotten by his growing quest for revenge against the gods. I could see modern Marvel Loki getting a kick out of helping Doom save the world, especially through clever and underhanded means, as long as he got the pleasure of burning Asgard to the ground as well.

I'm not so sure about that. It seems like the Dark Illuminati is built off of Doom's recent partnerships with Loki and Namor. Plus, Stane's nature (described by creature Matt Fraction as a futurist and an "open source ideological terrorist") would fit well with the Dark Illuminati if they are trying to save mankind using methods more befitting a manipulative dictator and a trickster god.

Yes, exactly. I know Bendis isn't exactly an entrepreneur when it comes to original ideas, but having a group of somewhat questionable people having a hand in similar things to the original Illuminati, just going about different routes that the heroes would probably never take, sounds a whole heck of a lot more interesting than another "Evil! Villain! Team! MUAHAHHAHAHA!!!", looking to take over the world or some such cliche.

 

[Sawyer]

From the SI panel: http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080628-WWCSIPanel.html

After the announcement of the new series, Jim McCann said he would share an image he expected to cause a lot of stir -- an image by Alex Maleev that included The Hood and the evil female Loki. "I'm not going to say what it is, but it kind of looks like an evil Illuminati," Bendis said.

The writer said the image teases a special one-shot that's coming out by Bendis and Maleev in first quarter 2009, "in very much the same format as the original Illuminati special where we introduced the Illuminati."

"And there's an eclipse behind them. That's weird," he added.


Looks like White Queen, Loki, Hood, Namor Doom and Osborne

Hey, look, an eclipse! Way to rip off Heroes, Marvel!

 

[fifthfiend]

Not anymore. Cover to Invincible Iron Man 5:

That's the ugliest ****ing cover I've seen that wasn't done by Image in the 1990s.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, I might be able to excuse Larroca's new, "let my colorist do 90% of the work" style if he were still drawing decent figures, but his art's just terrible all over.

 

[Red Mask]

I never liked how Iron Man's group was called Illuminati. IMHO, if it's secret and elite, it's not good. Could Sub-Mariner be the Black Adam to Doom's Secret Society of Supervillains?

 

[Dread]

I didn't really like the rendition of Doom desperately scrambling about in a panic ("No! NO! NO!!!" etc) at the mere sight of Avengers in his home. Even if they had taken him completely by surprise, even if this was something not even his contingencies had prepared him for, I think he would remain calm and levelheaded and then work from there. This is after all supposed to be the same Doom who, after having been dragged to hell by demons with a malfunctioning armor and no weapons of any kind, took rational stock of the situation and then prepared to make a final head-busting stand instead of mucking futilely about.

And then there was this.

Yeah, but still; a few panels constitutes "Horrible"? He seemed very conniving and arrogant throughout the rest of the arc, which to me is classic Doom.

Believe it or not, I agree with BrianWilly here. It was more than "a few panels". Doom was completely out of character in that MIGHTY AVENGERS arc. Firstly, he spoke not like what we are used to, but more common with smaller words. He was more petty than awesome. Secondly, considering Dr. Doom is a character who outwitted gods and cosmic beings and has cheated death more often than Wesley Snipes cheated on his taxes, he acted like a deer in the headlights upon learning the Avengers were coming for him. I mean, seriously? If anything, that would leave him in a position of STRENGTH. Latveria is HIS HOME TURF.

On another topic, I "loved" how post-CW, Iron Man and the other MA make a big deal about careful planning and how evil reckless heroics are. So what do they do after the symbiote bomb? Fly in half-cocked into Latveria and start a war. I mean, seriously. Like diving head-first at Dr. Doom with zero plan besides "scream, punch, repeat" is any smarter than fighting Nitro in a city (something Iron Man has also done).

And then to top off that arc, Dr. Doom loses to, of all people, Sentry, the walking plot-hole.

No, Stacy, I think it was more than a few panels.

This past year has seen Dr. Doom, so far, becoming more common and dependent on others, or at their mercy. That is not Doom. Imagine Darth Vader flipping into a panic about approaching rebel fighters. Yeah, I didn't think so.

 

[Mutagen]

Not exactly the people I would choose for an evil Illuminati, I agree with The Question in hopes that it be a save the Earth kind of deal. It seems to be going in a direction that I can thoroughly predict in the wrong way.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Believe it or not, I agree with BrianWilly here. It was more than "a few panels". Doom was completely out of character in that MIGHTY AVENGERS arc. Firstly, he spoke not like what we are used to, but more common with smaller words. He was more petty than awesome. Secondly, considering Dr. Doom is a character who outwitted gods and cosmic beings and has cheated death more often than Wesley Snipes cheated on his taxes, he acted like a deer in the headlights upon learning the Avengers were coming for him. I mean, seriously? If anything, that would leave him in a position of STRENGTH. Latveria is HIS HOME TURF.

On another topic, I "loved" how post-CW, Iron Man and the other MA make a big deal about careful planning and how evil reckless heroics are. So what do they do after the symbiote bomb? Fly in half-cocked into Latveria and start a war. I mean, seriously. Like diving head-first at Dr. Doom with zero plan besides "scream, punch, repeat" is any smarter than fighting Nitro in a city (something Iron Man has also done).

And then to top off that arc, Dr. Doom loses to, of all people, Sentry, the walking plot-hole.

No, Stacy, I think it was more than a few panels.

This past year has seen Dr. Doom, so far, becoming more common and dependent on others, or at their mercy. That is not Doom. Imagine Darth Vader flipping into a panic about approaching rebel fighters. Yeah, I didn't think so.

This is all true, however, you cant discount the times in the past that Doom has also balked in battle. He completely broke down in a fight with a massively pissed off Ben Grimm, for example. I think the problem here is:

A) A lot of you are referencing Doom how he has been written the past 20 years or so, which is fine, but Bendis has cited the old Lee/Kirby run as a big influence on him, and wrote the character a little more old-school.

B) Some of you guys just hate Bendis.

Anyway, just my opinion. I personally have enjoyed Bendis' run on both Avengers books since he started.

 

[yenaled]

I'm still hoping that Doom's Illuminati is simply meant to save the world Doom's way.

That was my impression also.

 

[BrianWilly]

A) A lot of you are referencing Doom how he has been written the past 20 years or so, which is fine, but Bendis has cited the old Lee/Kirby run as a big influence on him, and wrote the character a little more old-school.

Well isn't a character acting in a way that he hasn't acted for decades -- as in, different from the character that he is today -- the very definition of "out of character"?

I mean, twenty years isn't exactly a brisk walk in the park, it's basically longer than what most of us have even been reading comics for, and that's the Dr. Doom that we know.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, this is the same dude who brought us "crazy like it's 1985" Scarlet Witch and "'70s wifebeater" Hank Pym. It's kind of his thing to ignore the last few decades in favor of what he liked when he was a kid.

 

[Alex Summers]

Well, this is the same dude who brought us "crazy like it's 1985" Scarlet Witch and "'70s wifebeater" Hank Pym. It's kind of his thing to ignore the last few decades in favor of what he liked when he was a kid.

Welcome to DC comics!

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Well isn't a character acting in a way that he hasn't acted for decades -- as in, different from the character that he is today -- the very definition of "out of character"?

I mean, twenty years isn't exactly a brisk walk in the park, it's basically longer than what most of us have even been reading comics for, and that's the Dr. Doom that we know.

Well, yeah. That's pretty much what i was saying.

 

[DoomJester]

I'm sorry, was that Emma Frost in the Evil Illuminati? Is Bendis trying to upset me? Has been lurking here? I'm like five minutes away from raging. Unless she leaves after the first issue I'm going to rage. I guess again, the idea is to represent major factions of the MU, but still... I wish I just hadn't read this board. If he screws up my favorite Marvel character I will cease to try and review his comics objectively.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Unless (oh my God, I'm going to defend Bendis), this is the original Evilluminati from years ago, like he did with the Illuminati books. Far be it from him to tell a story in flashback!

 

[DoomJester]

Was there an Evilluminati? What do you mean? This looks very current with Hood and Female Loki and Emma's costume... I'm just upset 'cause Emma's with some unrepetant evil here, and that just isn't her... it seems to go against everything that's been going on with her character. But I don't know what's going to happen, but she hasn't been that evil ages. There are better candidates than her for so many reasons. And I'm scared cause she's my favorite character and Bendis I'd say, Bendis will do what he wants for his story.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Good point. Then I got nothing, other than to call Bendis a hack. Again.

 

[DoomJester]

Well, I said I'd wait till after the special to start doing that-- if he messes up Emma. I mean, do Ellis and Brubaker and Carey know that she's evil? Or may be made evil? Maybe I'm jumping the gun too much but I feel like I'm not going to like this.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Was there an Evilluminati? What do you mean? This looks very current with Hood and Female Loki and Emma's costume... I'm just upset 'cause Emma's with some unrepetant evil here, and that just isn't her... it seems to go against everything that's been going on with her character. But I don't know what's going to happen, but she hasn't been that evil ages. There are better candidates than her for so many reasons. And I'm scared cause she's my favorite character and Bendis I'd say, Bendis will do what he wants for his story.

Maybe she's possessed by a Mummudrai or something.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Maybe she's possessed by a Mummudrai or something.

Or maybe under a spell by Loki? Or being black-mailed somehow by Doom?

Could be lots of reasons...

 

[DoomJester]

So basically its Astonishing X-men all over again? Maybe it's a bad idea... "Hm... I need a mutant and a psychic, and someone the kids will love. Oh I know, Emma Frost parallels xavier, I'll use her!" Sorry, it doesn't work like that! But like I said... I'll wait to see what happens before I start hating everything he writes. Maybe it will be a one and done thing? They meet, they find out that they can't trust each other and they realize this is a bad idea.