New Joe Fridays - 29 (More Namor Talk)

Namor

The Sub-Mariner
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http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NewJoeFridays29.html

On Namor:

NRAMA: Joe, last week, you said that there'd be more to talk about this week, in regards to Namor, specifically considering that image by Mike Turner.
Before we hit that - Namor is one character that's gone through a bit of a revitalization thanks to Civil War, perhaps making his hostile attitude toward the surface world understandable for most readers for the first times in a long time. In terms of the Civil War "Big Board" – was "revitalize Namor" even on it?

JQ
: No, Namor had a question mark over his name. He was just one of many characters that we could elevate during Civil War, but we didn’t have a completely concrete plan for him yet. He was someone who we could possibly bring into the limelight, but it wasn’t a certainty. Namor had begun popping up more in more in the Marvel Universe, so the idea of doing something with him had been percolating slowly.
From the Illuminati to Civil War to Front Line to Black Panther, it just seemed like Namor was starting to reared his pointy eared head. The Atlantean sleeper cell was really one of the things that got us thinking more and more about Namor and his role within the Marvel Universe. Then one day we received a pitch and suddenly, it seemed like the time was right.

NRAMA: Given his role in Front Line, and this week's Civil War #6 - where is javascript:; he, as a character in your view? As a character, what's it time for him to do?

JQ
: Yeah, we’ve all been feeling this way about the Sub-Mariner for some time now. He’s a great character and he’s been out of the limelight for some time, so let’s see how much fans have missed him [laughs]

NRAMA: So - that image - you wanna talk about it some more? Got a creative team? A set-up? A reason why the surface world is on fire? JQ: Nope, can’t tell you more than I have at this point, but news is forthcoming.

I'm really happy about this. I've been saying it's been time for a new Namor ongoing and it seems it'll happen. Who do you guys think'll be the new creative team?
 
Can Didio make such a kickass song? I think not.

SPOILERS WITHIN DAMN WEST COAST PEOPLE.

http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NewJoeFridays29.html

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Yeah, but thats not a Darthphere thread.


Merging....
 
While somebody comes and merges the threads,
I got to say I never gave a damn about Speedball, him turning into Penance however, I just can't get behind that, and then to go one step further and making him part of the Thunderbolts with straight up murdering psychopaths? What happened to Robbie Baldwin damnit! :csad:
 
i just want to know where Robbie got all of the extra bone mass? his shoulders are considerably broader than when he was the spindly speedball. they serve steroids in the joint?
 
Penance is a joke. The idea does make sense, but the execution just doesnt.
 
It is stupid that they are talking about revitalizing Speedball and bringing him into the limelight and stuff........Yet to do it they completely changed the character.


Attitude
Look
Powers


They changed everything....Plus Penance looks to big to be Speedball.....Oh well.
 
I haven't been following Front Line at all, so when I first heard the name Penance I thought it was a Ghost Rider character. Penance seems like a cool character.
 
Joe Q wants us to believe that the "stay the course" line, in that context, wasn't a political reference. That, combined with selling comics with over 15 pages of ads in them, and creating an atmosphere where deadlines are suggestions, not guidelines, proves that Joe Q seems to believe fans are jack stupid and we only believe what he tells us to. He's probably never seen a message board poster with half a brain because on most MB's the "idiot to smart" ratio is about 2:1 at best, and you really need to spend time there to weed out the idiots.

As I have said in other threads, given the circumstances, I agree that Speedball needed to be reworked a little to evolve with the times. The problem is that what Jenkins did was overkill. He turned him into an emo mashocist freak who doesn't even have an original design, but looks like Voldo in his 3rd costume in SOUL CALIBER III just lept from someone's Gamecube and appeared on the screen. Baldwin needed a more focused evolution and Jenkins went with turning him into a Manson cliche. I understand that there have been many characters who needed to be hit or feel pain in order to get power in comics, and a masochist one makes sense. But why turn Speedball into that? It just reaks of something that would happen in the 90's. Right down to spikes. I can't count how many 90's designs had spikes somewhere.

But, if anything, a lot of the problems of CW has been overreactions, as well as completely missing the essence of some characters in the name of "reinventing" them or "being realistic".
 
Its funny you bring up the emo thing, I was just think about that and how Jenkins likes to creat emo characters. I thinks better then killing him though, which is what I think they probably would've done....or maybe not. Anyway, I really wanna see what Ellis does with him.
 
Its funny you bring up the emo thing, I was just think about that and how Jenkins likes to creat emo characters. I thinks better then killing him though, which is what I think they probably would've done....or maybe not. Anyway, I really wanna see what Ellis does with him.

It is better than killing him. That doesn't excuse overkill. That's like saying it's better to be punched in the stomach than in the 'nads. True, but neither result is a desire.

Unless you are Baldwin. He loves the pain. Ooh, make him suffer! Watch him paint his nails, become a fan of Christina Ricci, and listen to "Sk8er boy" over and over while quietly sobbing to himself.

Even Superboy-Prime called and said, "Dude, you're so emo." :rolleyes:

By all means relook Baldwin in the wake of CW. I just think this is the wrong
turn. What is usually funny is that half the time when a character is dramatically "reinvented" into a new one with a new gimmick and so on, that "new character" is a character that if he/she were genuinely new, would be a bit cliched and boring, but now with it being a reinvented old character, it has "depth".
 
I dunno I think Baldwin is pretty funny in 30 Rock and Christina Ricci is hot.:o
 
I disagree. They should've just killed Speedball. Much better than this lame Penance thing. Heck, to me, he was right, Speedball is dead. Penance is a new character who coincedentally shares his name. Stuff like that happens.

Somewhere in 2099 though, Speedball is still alive and a hero. :)
 
Quesada said:
Well, it’s not like Peter has experienced so much death in his life that he’s unaffected by it. Any death is going to change his life. How could MJ dying not effect the character and who he is moving forward? I go back to the Speedball example I mentioned before. Fans want characters to grow? Well, death is a part of growing up and growing old, so what’s left to complain about?
Just...shut up. Please, just shut up.

I am so sick to death of Quesada's stupid fan-baiting fetish. It might be overlooked if he were just another guy instead the head of a company. It might even be overlooked if he were a five-year old child instead of a grown man.

NRAMA: If it is/was purely unintentional and you maintain this is fight with no right or wrong side, do you consider it a problem fans are still convinced otherwise?

JQ: No, not at all. This isn’t something that surprised us in the least. You don’t think we knew that more fans would jump on Cap’s bandwagon than Tony’s? Of course we knew this would happen, we counted on it. That doesn’t change the way we feel about it.

Look, for me, and this is just me speaking, my opinion - people tend to vote for things with their hearts, not everyone, but most. The Internet is the poster child for this sort of experience and behavior, it defines knee jerk reaction. It’s this kind of behavior that Madison Avenue and politicians and yes, even storytellers, have taken advantage of. It’s used in every advertising and political campaign, every politician, every party uses it; they pull at the heartstrings of the public because they know that for the most part we’ll vote with our hearts before our heads. Readers are viewing this story and they see the little guys (Cap and crew) rallying against the big guys (Tony and the government) and the immediate impulse it to root for the underdog because we all see ourselves in that role. But thinking it through logically, I see that there are merits and faults to both arguments.

Also, many people have a tendency to want to root against the government, but take a close look, in the instance of Civil War, the government is acting responsibly as it is answering the will of the people of America in the Marvel Universe and isn’t that what good government is supposed to do?

So, in the end, let the story play itself out, let’s look back on it in a year when passions and tempers have cooled, and let’s discuss it. Who knows, maybe some points of view will have changed, maybe even mine [laughs].
No. Just...no.

Ignoring for the moment that you just admitted to being a manipulative ponce who says one thing and means another, you would either have to be willfully ignorant or just flat-out oblivious to not see all the blatant negative portrayals that Tony and other pro-regs has been rammed through in this past year, ones that have nothing at all to do with the actual pros and cons and debates of the SHRA itself.

Betraying friends at the drop of a dime? Check.

Cloning dead friends to attack betrayed friends? Check.

Working with murderous villains like Green Goblin, Bullseye, and Kingpin? Oh, so check.

Flagrant disregard for human rights? Attacking a man in his own home? Ripping little girls from their mother's arms? Deliberately ignoring the one man who actually caused the deaths at Stamford? Check, check, check.

Not one of those has a single thing to do with "Maybe this law is right/wrong because etc etc etc" and everything to do with "LOOK! This guys are PR!CKS!" You know the real reason why no one's siding with Iron Man, Joey? It's not because you're so clever as to have masterfully predicted that people will side with underdogs against the government no matter what or some such. It's because you've made it so they couldn't do anything else. No matter what you try to convince people of, there was nothing fair and balanced about this story right from the beginning and it only got far worse as time went on. And, frankly, you probably know it and are lying through your teeth.

Maybe people would have sided against Iron Man anyway even if the story was completely fair to both sides. We'll never know, will we? 'Cause the story was anything but fair.
 
If I had a dollar for everytime Dread *****ed about ads, I would be a very rich man right now.


Also, the song kicks ass, and like always I know Joey Q is the head of a company (technically that would be Dan Buckley) but you guys take him way too seriously. Just like people take Donald Trump too seriously, and by proxy, he takes himself way too seriously.
 
Oh yeah I forgot, Penance wasn't a Jenkins driven idea, you have the man Joey Q to blame for that.
 
The song was horrible, I'm going to buy less Marvel comics because of it.

I'm also surprised they didn't put an ad break in it to make it longer.
 
The song was horrible, I'm going to buy less Marvel comics because of it.

I'm also surprised they didn't put an ad break in it to make it longer.

The whole song was a freaking ad.:o
 
The song was horrible, I'm going to buy less Marvel comics because of it.

I'm also surprised they didn't put an ad break in it to make it longer.

Stan's bit was definetly the best, but the rest was cringe worthy indeed.
 

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