DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 10

[Scarecrow_King]

The working conditions at the Big Two might not be the greatest, but it makes sense that they're protective of their characters.

Yeah, they want their writers to tell creative stories. But like Chamber-Music said, they publish the biggest characters not just in comics, but in pop culture. They should be a little protective of them.

Then there's Boom studios, who publishes their own new characters. Sad to say, but nobody really cares about these new characters or books. The creators can take more chances and tell stories they couldn't with a cultural staple like Batman or Spider-Man. If their main character dies, nobody will blink twice. If Superman dies, they'll write a cover story on the New York Times.

 

[Anubis]

But at the same time, you gotta give your writers a little freedom. They know they can't change the core concept of the character, but you can't constantly stifle their creativity with boos**t events and s**ty editorial mandates that they have to adhere too every 5 minutes. I mean, these days, nobody can get a good run of their own stories in order without having to do some damn tie in to some s**ty world changing event or having to take the character back to square one, eliminating all traces of character development.

 

[Lord]

They should really stop doing so many world changing events, Marvel is expecially guilty of that, they do 2 or 3 major events every year, that translates to what in the fictional universe? Like 3 or 3 world changing events every month.

Maybe the best way would be to make them more limited and not to force the writers into it.

 

[Anubis]

Or not do any for a 5 to 10 years.

 

[RoughNTumble]

scrubs keep buyin em

more than anything else V_V;;

 

[Anubis]

As usual, the people are their own worst enemies.

 

[Lord]

Or not do any for a 5 to 10 years.

Since they won't do that because it gets them so much money they can in least let the writers do their oun story without being affected by the crossover.

 

[Anubis]

Pfft, they don't actually make SOOO much money. In fact, what they actually make off their comics is a tiny drop in the bucket. Maybe it would be best to not look at the profit margin and focus on quality. Cuz as long as the movies are making money, who gives a s**t what they pull in from some comic event? Cuz either way, the worst film will make more money than the best comic book event. Easy peasy.

 

[chamber-music]

The thing with all these events and relaunches is that it only give at best a temporary boost to comic sales.

Despite the huge boom of comic book movies the actual comics themselves are not attracting large amounts of new readers.

Chickens came home to roost in March.

With no gimmick-bloated #1 issues, strong crossovers or annuals of high-performing titles driving sales of the company’s periodical line, with the Before Watchmen project fading out on a whimper, and despite a deluge of high-selling issues tying in with a recent character death, estimated sales of the average new DC Universe comic book fell to 31,000, the lowest level since the big “New 52″ relaunch of September 2011.

Also, the publisher’s total unit sales dropped from 2.43 million in February to 2.22 million in March, the lowest figure since July 2011, when DC sold an estimated total of 2.09 million comic books to comics retailers. Total dollar sales DC Comics’ periodical output dropped from $8.36 million in February to $7.48 million in March, the second-lowest amount of the post-”New 52″ DC line — the previous low point since the relaunch was April 2012, with estimated total sales of $7.27 million.

There were 18 “New 52″ titles selling below the 20,000-unit mark in March. Eight of them are officially cancelled, so that leaves another 10 titles in the danger zone. And three of those — Threshold, Katana and Vibe — were launched in 2013, meaning less than three months ago.

 

[RoughNTumble]

yep

temporary sales boosts that hurt the product and alienate customers in the long run tbqh

time to collect harras, lee, and didio's heads iwcbsb

 

[Anubis]

Didiot shoulda got s**t canned long ago.

I'd toss Johns as well.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Johns at least translates into comic sales and Lee doesn't seem to be creating too much of a problem. Most of the issues seem to stem from DiDio, Harras, and Nelson.

 

[RoughNTumble]

didio and lee were the guys that came up with and pushed really hard for the new 52 according to johns

johns wasn't interested in rebooting, but he's playing ball

 

[hippie_hunter]

didio and lee were the guys that came up with and pushed really hard for the new 52 according to johns

johns wasn't interested in rebooting, but he's playing ball

Rebooting really isn't the problem. The problem lies in how crappily DC is treating their creators. Lee seems to be focusing more on DC's digital efforts while the publishing stuff is still with DiDio. The problem players here seem to be DiDio (the one who has been known to constantly change his mind), Nelson (who is the one treating the DC characters more corporately), and Harras (the one who should be dealing with the writers).

 

[RoughNTumble]

it's hard to pinpoint who exactly is responsible for which problems

all we know is we're hating dc more each week ioo

-changing characters and past events that don't need changing in order appeal to a new readerbase that doesn't exist, or who are fickle fillies that only read for continuity porn

-creators used as proxies for editors to live out their fantasy writing careers. one editor literally told jenkins to change a scene where batman was sitting because 'everyone knows that batman doesn't sit.'

-awful, s****y gimmick crossovers and event months that interrupt and interfere with stories (0 month, wtf month)

- a bland house style and tone forced onto 99% of the line, killing any sort of variety and creativity that might exist

-violence, violence, violence, violence, fun is for sissies comics aren't just for kids anymore

better to clean house with the whole lot and make an example of them

 

[RockSP]

one editor literally told jenkins to change a scene where batman was sitting because 'everyone knows that batman doesn't sit.

W in T entire F??!!?

 

[Saint]

DC is pretty dry right now. Batman Incorporated is winding down, which leaves me only invested in Batman & Robin as far as the Batfamily is concerned. I have interest, but not confidence, in Zero Year, so we'll see how that plays out.

I don't know, it's a poor state of affairs when I'm not excited about Batman comics.

At the same time, Geoff is off GL, so that book's future quality is in question, Soule hasn't sold me on his Swamp Thing yet (though he's getting close), and the Superman titles are either floundering or under the control of the loathesome Scott Lobdell. So a lot of the books I look forward to reading at DC are just not quite there right now.

It's a weird transitional period, and none of the books are "hooking" right now. It'll pass, it always does--but DC, I think, needs a big creative team "win" to make it happen. If you could pull a name like Rucka back onto Batman or Superman, then we might be in business. Obviously not easy given the attitude towards DC right now, but hey, you gotta do what you gotta do.

Marvel is in a similar pickle, they're just fairing better. Brubaker has basically wrapped up his business there, the Avengers and X-Men have changed gears entirely, Spider-Man is in uncharted territory, and other mainstay books are also experiencing changes, like Cap, Iron Man, and Thor. The books I used to rely on every month, like Brubaker's Captain America, have gone off into the sunset, so it's that uncomfortable time where one has to get invested again.

Hickman's Avengers, while interesting, aren't quite hooking yet (who'd have thought he could tell a story even more slowly than Bendis?), and Bendis' X-Men--also interesting--are hard to care about while Jason Aaron is already writing the best possible X-Men book in the grand tradition of Grant Morrison (incidentally, Aaron's Thor is also one of the best books on the shelf).

So we're in a weird, fuzzy period for both companies. Marvel is doing better right now, in my opinion, as evidenced by their increased slice of my pull list. DC just sort of feels like it's filling the air with comics. They don't seem to have any particular direction or function now that big deals like Incorporated and Green Lantern are fading out. They need to figure out what they're next big thing is. They want me to believe it's Justice League, and I wish it was, but God, it's just so boring.

 

[Saint]

As an addendum, here's the problem I had with Green lantern #21: it looks the same as Green Lantern #20.

I get why. The direction of the GL books has been a huge success for almost ten years now. So, naturally, the book looks, feels, and reads like every other GL book has for the last few years.

But... I just finished reading that. It ended, quite satisfyingly. It's like Nolan's Batman. I watched it, I loved it, and now it's done. Do not make another movie like that. Do not write another GL book like Geoff Johns. Whatever you do, do not feed me that again, because I already have the best possible version of it on my shelf. You're only going to deliver a weaker imitation.

Fairly, it's way too early to say whether the new direction (if there is one) will be like the old one--but that is a concern I have. I would have loved to see something dramatically new and fresh in GL #21.

This is where DC characters are supposed to excel: evolving interpretations. So please, evolve.

 

[antsman41]

Yeah... I'm done again until something piques my interest again. Sucks Inc is done soon. B&R is still good but nothing like it was (RIP Damian). Zero Year does nothing for me; loved Black Mirror, thought Owls was great->good->bad. While DOTF was just tedious and reiterating of great stuff before it. Also, I gave up on Batwoman since Williams III stopped drawing the main brunt of pages and didn't care for Wonder Woman crap in my Bat books. Nightwing was also awesome, but I always wait for TPBs. Tony Daniels is a hack and was the worst thing ever for the great Tec...

This reboot pissed me off, but then they said they wouldn't mess with my continuity but then they did (f'd with Tim and Babs) for no reason. And, now DC are stuck in this limbo of half assed rebooted Batman world, where the history is cock-eyed and goofy but they want to change thing but keep things and grrrrrrrr. Not to mention throwing idiotic fan service things in our face for no reason (Carrie, Batman Beyond suit, etc)

They should have just killed our awesome continuity with a bang and then actually rebooted. Then our 25+ year history would have gone in the books as one of the best runs ever for a comic book character, while letting him grow and change for a new readership. Worst part is, these new readers already don't care about the 'faux-boot' and are dropping books while also losing us, who have been here since the 80's/90's by pissing us off or boring us to tears and ****ing with the numbering.

At least during the 'rough times' (Moench&Jones) in the middle nighties, we had side projects that kept us a float (LOTDK/SOTB/Robin/Dixon's Batman was alright but artists usually sucked), before wrapping us back in with Nightwing and then the whole Contagion->NML run.

 

[RoughNTumble]

As an addendum, here's the problem I had with Green lantern #21: it looks the same as Green Lantern #20.

I get why. The direction of the GL books has been a huge success for almost ten years now. So, naturally, the book looks, feels, and reads like every other GL book has for the last few years.

But... I just finished reading that. It ended, quite satisfyingly. It's like Nolan's Batman. I watched it, I loved it, and now it's done. Do not make another movie like that. Do not write another GL book like Geoff Johns. Whatever you do, do not feed me that again, because I already have the best possible version of it on my shelf. You're only going to deliver a weaker imitation.

Fairly, it's way too early to say whether the new direction (if there is one) will be like the old one--but that is a concern I have. I would have loved to see something dramatically new and fresh in GL #21.

This is where DC characters are supposed to excel: evolving interpretations. So please, evolve.

we're okay with green lantern not changing so much yet

johns introduced so much potential in his additions to the mythos that we would like to see a better writer, or someone more capable, make them sing

venditti is off to a pretty good start with his first issue, bringing the focus back on to the GL corps and finally adding some character drama that won't be forgotten an issue later back into the series

or at least we hope so

then we remember whatever made fialkov leave is probably still in the pipeline for us V_V

 

[RoughNTumble]

This reboot pissed me off, but then they said they wouldn't mess with my continuity but then they did (f'd with Tim and Babs) for no reason. And, now DC are stuck in this limbo of half assed rebooted Batman world, where the history is cock-eyed and goofy but they want to change thing but keep things and grrrrrrrr. Not to mention throwing idiotic fan service things in our face for no reason (Carrie, Batman Beyond suit, etc)

They should have just killed our awesome continuity with a bang and then actually rebooted.

At least during the 'rough times' (Moench&Jones) in the middle nighties, we had side projects that kept us a float (LOTDK/SOTB/Robin/Dixon's Batman was alright but artists usually sucked), before wrapping us back in with Nightwing and then the whole Contagion->NML run.

this, pretty much ^~^

we were fine with the reboot when it was the other characters who were being rebooted

now they're changing s*** left and right

and it's a total disaster ^_~

 

[The Batman]

I find myself wishing they had only rebooted Superman and Wonder Woman. And speaking of those books, Azz's run is just a neat bandage on a bullet wound. As soon as he leaves, they're gonna change the entire tone and idea of the book AGAIN. And the Superman books went from the creative reimagining of Morrison to being a dull line again. I'll be buying Superman Unchained and Batman/Superman.

Once Morrison is done with Batman Inc, I'm either gonna try Zero Year or just leave the Batbooks. And I really want to read his Wonder Woman: Earth One.

I must say, the JL and JLA are the only things that interest me at the moment.

 

[RoughNTumble]

straight from morrison

to tony daniel and scott lobdell

could they have done worse

 

[The Batman]

^ Yeah, there is no way in hell that the Superman line should be filled with such mediocre talent.

Its like they said "Well, we got Snyder and Lee coming, so lets not give a damn about the rest of the books."

 

[HighFivingMF]

I don't mind Lobdell's run too much, the stories aren't told in a great way but they have some cool ideas. Though I've noticed... He likes making characters say "kick your butt" a lot. Snyder and Pak are what I'm really excited for. But I still wish Sholly Fisch took over Action.