Horror Dexter - Part 6

[Keyser Soze]

Sorry, but I completely disagree with your entire reading of the ending of Dexter. Deb's death forces Dexter's eyes open once and for all to the consequences of his actions. It doesn't matter that Deb forgave him...he didn't forgive himself, he knew that he had screwed up her life (by his own admission) and by the end he accepts full responsibility for her death both figuratively and literally. The ending is absolutely punitive for Dexter, but it's a very deliberate self-punishment. When he was an inch away from getting what he wanted, that's when it all comes crumbling down for him. I honestly think death or being captured by Miami Metro would've been less rough for him than having to live alone bearing the weight of Deb's death on his shoulders for the rest of his days. Completely dead inside.

Trust me, I love Breaking Bad as much as anyone and even though I have some issues with the ending, I absolutely respect the way Gilligan chose to end his story and in some ways I adore the ending in spite of my own personal objections to it. All I can say is that on an emotional level, I felt a sense of sadness and defeat for Dex at the end of "Remember the Monsters?" and I felt a sense of triumph for Walt at the end of "Felina", which I can't help but observe as interesting when all along I've wanted the opposite for the two characters.

I just feel like Dexter's "punishment" is totally hollow, because it's totally on his own terms. In their respective finales, Walt's and Dexter's plans go down pretty smoothly, but the difference is that Dexter gets to keep on living, still loved by everyone, and his reputation still intact, his dark secrets remaining forever undisclosed. The only thing keeping him from his dream happy ending is his own decision that he'd rather not be with Harrison and Hannah because for some reason he decides they'd be in danger with him. So it's not like circumstances are actively keeping them apart, it's just a synthetic way for the show to once hammer home what a noble guy Dexter is for recognising he should feel bad for Debra's death. It feels like a kneejerk reaction, and it feels phoney, thanks largely due to a terrible season preceding it doing nothing to set this ending up and making it feel like a total random brainfart decision from Dexter tacked on to give us a rushed ending.

And let's not get into how dumb Debra's death is as well. Turning off the plug is one thing... but taking her body and dumping it at sea!? What about Debra's numerous other friends and colleagues who might have wanted to say goodbye, or, you know, have a body to bury and a grave to visit? Insignificant compared to Dexter's need for a poetic, symbolic moment. It's like Walt saying "This is all about ME!" in Breaking Bad Season 4, with the difference being that the writers want the audience to agree with Dexter when he says it. And then there's the fact they kill Debra in the first place, when she was more deserving of a happy ending than anyone after the wringer she's been put through. She doesn't even get a dignified, heroic death that gives HER series-long journey any resolution. Instead she gets fridged to motivate Dexter to off Saxon and/or ride into a hurricane. And killed because of a terribly-written decision by Dexter to get Saxon into a kill-room then... change his mind, not even tranqing him before leaving Debra alone with him. Jennifer Carpenter deserved better.

 

[Project862006]

i liked his fate in the finale

alone forever

only other fate i would of liked is if finale ended with dexter riding into the hurricane

 

[Prison Mike]

I think the exile punishment was very fitting for Dexter. Overall, season 8 did not feel like a final season to me. It didn't have that impending finality to it as most shows who know their ending do. The ending felt rushed even if the producers knew it a couple of seasons ago. While I don't agree with the execution of the final episode, I definitely respect the ending. It was surprising and controversial.

 

[moviedoors]

I just feel like Dexter's "punishment" is totally hollow, because it's totally on his own terms. In their respective finales, Walt's and Dexter's plans go down pretty smoothly, but the difference is that Dexter gets to keep on living, still loved by everyone, and his reputation still intact, his dark secrets remaining forever undisclosed. The only thing keeping him from his dream happy ending is his own decision that he'd rather not be with Harrison and Hannah because for some reason he decides they'd be in danger with him. So it's not like circumstances are actively keeping them apart, it's just a synthetic way for the show to once hammer home what a noble guy Dexter is for recognising he should feel bad for Debra's death. It feels like a kneejerk reaction, and it feels phoney, thanks largely due to a terrible season preceding it doing nothing to set this ending up and making it feel like a total random brainfart decision from Dexter tacked on to give us a rushed ending.

And let's not get into how dumb Debra's death is as well. Turning off the plug is one thing... but taking her body and dumping it at sea!? What about Debra's numerous other friends and colleagues who might have wanted to say goodbye, or, you know, have a body to bury and a grave to visit? Insignificant compared to Dexter's need for a poetic, symbolic moment. It's like Walt saying "This is all about ME!" in Breaking Bad Season 4, with the difference being that the writers want the audience to agree with Dexter when he says it. And then there's the fact they kill Debra in the first place, when she was more deserving of a happy ending than anyone after the wringer she's been put through. She doesn't even get a dignified, heroic death that gives HER series-long journey any resolution. Instead she gets fridged to motivate Dexter to off Saxon and/or ride into a hurricane. And killed because of a terribly-written decision by Dexter to get Saxon into a kill-room then... change his mind, not even tranqing him before leaving Debra alone with him. Jennifer Carpenter deserved better.

Nailed it. Dexter did ugly terrible things all throughout the series, but it's like the show was unaware of that. Dexter is a vain, selfish, destructive monster, but it was like the writers agreed with Vogel that he was perfect. It wasn't until the last 10 minutes that they even attempted to make Dexter reap what he's sewn, and those 10 minutes were embarrassingly forced and nonsensical.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, I'm just going to have call ******** on any idea that they show tried to portray Dexter as any kind of perfect being. Even in this season, we saw Dexter reflect a lot on what he did, even he seemed somewhat repulsed by Vogel's idea of psychopaths as perfect alphas. It's been a fairly consistent running idea throughout the series that Dexter is monster; it's basically what he struggles with throughout. Sometimes he wanes one way, sometimes the other, but it's always been there.

I sort of understand where you can say his punishment isn't proper since it's self-punishment (though I don't agree), but I think it's a very, very revisionist take on the show to try and say that stuff was never there. It's always been there, through good or bad.

 

[Keyser Soze]

More and more, I feel like Dexter should have ended with Season 7. I'ves even some say it should have ended with Season 5, but I think 7 was overall a very strong season that earned it's place in the canon. And unlike the abysmal Season 8, 7 was dense with the show's own history and the emotional weight of all that came before. You had this palpable sense of old, thought-dormant demons resurfacing and all the chickens coming home to roost, which Season 8 sorely lacked. And with a bit more meat to it, the final story of LaGuerta uncovering Dexter's guilt could have had a lot more heft as a FINAL story. And as far as endings go, Dexter crossing the line of plotting the death of an innocent woman to save his own skin, and Debra interrupting him in the act, could have been very powerful if they'd gone with her shooting Dexter. That, to me, would be more true to Debra's character, and a more fitting conclusion to the series: like us, over the season Debra had been made to see the allure of Dexter's code, but in this final cold moment she sees the monstrous truth and has to put an end to it. Debra being the one destined to kill Dexter makes more thematic sense to me than Dexter being the one destined to kill Debra.

Instead, we got "Wow, that LaGuerta sure is a b***h for trying to stop Dexter killing, I hope Dexter sorts her out. Oh no, Deb interrupted, I hope she makes the right decision and kills the law-abiding cop seeking justice for her wrongfully vilified dead friend. Yay, she killed LaGuerta! But why is she all mopey about it now? Why doesn't she appreciate how awesome Dexter is? Really, Deb's being a bit of an unreasonable b***h by being angry at Dexter for being a serial killer and ruining her life. Oh good, Deb's come to her senses, now she can be a willing accomplice assisting a Dexter in ambushing his victims and making wisecracks about their KERRAZY family!"

 

[Tron Bonne]

Instead, we got "Wow, that LaGuerta sure is a b***h for trying to stop Dexter killing, I hope Dexter sorts her out. Oh no, Deb interrupted, I hope she makes the right decision and kills the law-abiding cop seeking justice for her wrongfully vilified dead friend. Yay, she killed LaGuerta! But why is she all mopey about it now? Why doesn't she appreciate how awesome Dexter is? Really, Deb's being a bit of an unreasonable b***h by being angry at Dexter for being a serial killer and ruining her life. Oh good, Deb's come to her senses, now she can be a willing accomplice assisting a Dexter in ambushing his victims and making wisecracks about their KERRAZY family!"

While the last part is sort of true, most of what you said isn't how it went down at all. The way they handled Deb's reaction to killing LaGuerta was far from this take, nor do I think it was ever intended that us the audience view LaGuerta or Dexter or Deb in this way. I can't help but feel like what you're saying is being exaggerated a lot through some bias glasses here.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Like honestly, I don't see at all where anyone is getting this idea that we are, or ever were, suppose to see Dexter as some awesome hero? At what point has the show ever really committed to this? There's always been people who have endorsed in the show, but it's always been undercut, usually by Dexter's own actions or feelings. If anything, the Dexter as hero was always an invention of the fandom, many of who saw him as some kind of Punisher-esque hero, but the show itself never created that kind of image of Dexter. It was always a back a forth for him.

I've said it before, but I definitely feel like people are looking at this show in such a revisionist way just because this season disappointed.

 

[Keyser Soze]

While the last part is sort of true, most of what you said isn't how it went down at all. The way they handled Deb's reaction to killing LaGuerta was far from this take, nor do I think it was ever intended that us the audience view LaGuerta or Dexter or Deb in this way. I can't help but feel like what you're saying is being exaggerated a lot through some bias glasses here.

What bias? I've watched Dexter since season 1, episode 1, believe me, My bias would have much rather leaned towards me not feeling like my investment was utterly wasted.

And of course that's how the audience was supposed to view it: we're literally placed inside Dexter's head, his voice-over guiding us, and the show balked at ever letting us think we were so intimately relating to a true monster. In that Season 7 finale, they had Dexter plot to kill LaGuerta because that resolution would work out best for him, and in the end he got what he wanted, without him having to take any dent on his superhero facade by doing the killing himself. Instead Debra had to do the killing. And watching early Season 8, I was torn between feeling such compassion for Deb and the show constantly telling me I SHOULDN'T be feeling compassion for her and she was being annoying by not reconciling with Dexter, until we get to the point where they reunite with DEBRA apologising to HIM! As for LaGuerta, her arc in the latter part of Season 7 was much like Hank's in the final episodes of Breaking Bad, but they at least put the work in to make us feel conflicted in our loyalties as regards Hank battling Walt. Take the blood-curdling "confession" video Walt creates. We watch that and we're supposed to be appalled by Walt's callousness. But when Dexter does something similar, in tarnishing LaGuerta's reputation and getting her suspended because she won't stop going after him, it's presented as this triumphant "Gotcha!" moment, a win for our resourceful hero. She was presented as a nuisance and a threat that had to go. Though this could also be informed by the fact hat shank was much more likeable than LaGuerta was in the seasons before their respective climactic storylines.

 

[Teelie]

I never saw Dexter as a hero or a villain. He was amoral but not evil. He was what he was without a moral compass guiding him toward one thing or another. What he had instead was a set of instructions and guidance (The Code) to act from and how to behave.

It necessitated what would be seen as evil acts but couched against others who comitted evil acts in an effort to negate them in some way.

In the end he found himself trying to become moral and right and it literally repulsed him into solitude and confinement away from humanity and civilization.

So he was never someone to be seen as good and when he attempted to become so he was destined to fail.

 

[Tron Bonne]

What bias? I've watched Dexter since season 1, episode 1, believe me, My bias would have much rather leaned towards me not feeling like my investment was utterly wasted.

I sense some heavy bitterness in regards to season 8 that I feel is seeping into your opinion of the show as a whole

And of course that's how the audience was supposed to view it: we're literally placed inside Dexter's head, his voice-over guiding us, and the show balked at ever letting us think we were so intimately relating to a true monster. In that Season 7 finale, they had Dexter plot to kill LaGuerta because that resolution would work out best for him, and in the end he got what he wanted, without him having to take any dent on his superhero facade by doing the killing himself. Instead Debra had to do the killing. And watching early Season 8, I was torn between feeling such compassion for Deb and the show constantly telling me I SHOULDN'T be feeling compassion for her and she was being annoying by not reconciling with Dexter, until we get to the point where they reunite with DEBRA apologising to HIM! As for LaGuerta, her arc in the latter part of Season 7 was much like Hank's in the final episodes of Breaking Bad, but they at least put the work in to make us feel conflicted in our loyalties as regards Hank battling Walt. Take the blood-curdling "confession" video Walt creates. We watch that and we're supposed to be appalled by Walt's callousness. But when Dexter does something similar, in tarnishing LaGuerta's reputation and getting her suspended because she won't stop going after him, it's presented as this triumphant "Gotcha!" moment, a win for our resourceful hero. She was presented as a nuisance and a threat that had to go. Though this could also be informed by the fact hat shank was much more likeable than LaGuerta was in the seasons before their respective climactic storylines.

So, essentially, what I'm getting from this is that you felt you were suppose to view these character this way because Dexter got away from a higher authority? I disagree pretty heavily, but whatever. I don't really want to get into wall of texts post arguments honestly. Definitely not how I viewed context of events in the least.

 

[moviedoors]

What bias? I've watched Dexter since season 1, episode 1, believe me, My bias would have much rather leaned towards me not feeling like my investment was utterly wasted.

And of course that's how the audience was supposed to view it: we're literally placed inside Dexter's head, his voice-over guiding us, and the show balked at ever letting us think we were so intimately relating to a true monster. In that Season 7 finale, they had Dexter plot to kill LaGuerta because that resolution would work out best for him, and in the end he got what he wanted, without him having to take any dent on his superhero facade by doing the killing himself. Instead Debra had to do the killing. And watching early Season 8, I was torn between feeling such compassion for Deb and the show constantly telling me I SHOULDN'T be feeling compassion for her and she was being annoying by not reconciling with Dexter, until we get to the point where they reunite with DEBRA apologising to HIM! As for LaGuerta, her arc in the latter part of Season 7 was much like Hank's in the final episodes of Breaking Bad, but they at least put the work in to make us feel conflicted in our loyalties as regards Hank battling Walt. Take the blood-curdling "confession" video Walt creates. We watch that and we're supposed to be appalled by Walt's callousness. But when Dexter does something similar, in tarnishing LaGuerta's reputation and getting her suspended because she won't stop going after him, it's presented as this triumphant "Gotcha!" moment, a win for our resourceful hero. She was presented as a nuisance and a threat that had to go. Though this could also be informed by the fact hat shank was much more likeable than LaGuerta was in the seasons before their respective climactic storylines.

Nailed it again! I knew this show was lost when Vogel had that sibling therapy session and Vogel shamed Deb and the show wanted us to want Deb to be forgiven by her brother, the sociopathic maniac who wrecked everyone's lives for his own selfish reasons. And then! let him off the hook by letting him make the decision, on his terms, in defiance of a massive hurricane, to "atone" in exile, all the while abandoning his child and getting to keep his reputation with the people who will never know the damage he caused them. Dexter became a show that wanted us to root for a serial killer, but without ever actually dealing with the implications.

Then there's the plain old awful, cliched, forced, and unbelievable writing that gave us a Dexter who could be cured of being a psychopathic serial killer through the power of love. This show was on the decline after Trinity, but Hannah McKay was the true death knell.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Lol, I swear, the way of some you guys viewed some of the events in the last two seasons totally baffles me.

 

[Reek]

Happy Dexter day.

10-3

 

[BatLobster]

Dexter is not "atoning" in exile. Why do some people act like he got a heroic ending? It was not heroic or redemptive. He just did the best he could given really bad circumstances...not exactly out of character for Dexter. But he's got a pretty miserable life ahead of him.

Also, Dexter never "became" a show where we were rooting for a serial killer. That started in the pilot.

 

[DyeLorean]

He should've done what he did in the finale waaay before. At least it could've prevented Deb from dying. He screwed up almost everything and everyone, with the exception of Harrison (which is probably the only reason why the finale makes some sort of sense).

 

[Keyser Soze]

He should've done what he did in the finale waaay before. At least it could've prevented Deb from dying. He screwed up almost everything and everyone, with the exception of Harrison (which is probably the only reason why the finale makes some sort of sense).

And even then, he blessed Harrison with a life without his father, on the run with a wanted serial killer for his new mommy. But it's okay, because Harrison conveniently told Dexter he loves Hannah so he doesn't need of feel guilty about abandoning his child. Absolved once again!

 

[Keyser Soze]

Dexter is not "atoning" in exile. Why do some people act like he got a heroic ending? It was not heroic or redemptive. He just did the best he could given really bad circumstances...not exactly out of character for Dexter. But he's got a pretty miserable life ahead of him.

Also, Dexter never "became" a show where we were rooting for a serial killer. That started in the pilot.

Yeah, absolutely, it started that way. And there's a tried-and-true tradition of "anti-hero TV", especially in the past decade or so, where we love vicariously through a flawed, morally compromised protagonist. But before long the show revealed itself to be cowardly and lacking conviction, in that refused to actually examine the moral implications of having us relate to a serial killer, or even call into question his morality. The show revealed itself to be less "anti-hero TV" than just "hero TV," and that's where rooting for a killer becomes problematic. It got to the point where he practically became this saintly, blameless figure, where every potential moral conundrum that may require him to something murky or morally shady (beyond, you know, killing people) had to be explained away.

- Will Dexter be forced to choose between killing Doakes or being exposed as a killer? OH, NOT TO WORRY, Lila Ex Machina popped in to conveniently kill Doakes for him so he can become the righteous spirit of vengeance for the guy he was close to killing himself anyway.

- Is Dexter to blame for pushing Miguel Prado over the edge and turning a decent man into a killer? OH, NOT TO WORRY, it turns out Prado was bad all along so we should be at pains to make clear Dexter is in now ay responsible for bringing out his murderous impulses.

- Did Dexter just wrongfully kill a man who wasn't responsible for the murders he thought he was? OH, NIT TO WORRY, we're going to strenuous lengths to show you Dexter's murder victim was a rapist and a Bad Man so you or Dexter don't have to feel bad about him being dead.

- Woah, did Dexter just snap and brutally murder a guy in a bathroom just for being a jerk to him? OH, NOT TO WORRY, Ghost Harry's here to reframe this act of cold-blooded murder on a victim who didn't even commit any crime as a cathartic, perfectly healthy release of emotion.

- Did Dexter just cold-as-ice shiv a retired cop in a van? OH, NOT TO WORRY, because...uh... yeah, f**k that guy, let's just forget about him. Quinn sure did but he following season.

- This is intriguing, because of the most telegraphed twist in TV history we know that Travis is the real Doomsday killer and he's only imagining his doctor mentor, but how can a Dexter justify murdering essentially an innocent who is unaware that he's killing people? OH, NOT TO WORRY, as soon as Travis finds out he's Doomsday he suddenly decides he enjoys killing and transforms into a moustache-twirling evil supervillain totally at odds wih his established personality so Dexter can happily take him down without a second thought. Oh, and we're going to put in a clumsy exposition scene where someone reads a document that explains Travis was an evil killer all along going back to when he was a kid and we can't even view his current actions as an up characteristic psychotic break.

It's not just the final season: these problems are laced throughout the show's history. Dexter always gets an out, is always allowed to be the "good guy" who doesn't have to resort to any moral ambiguity in his wanton killing. But in earlier seasons it was forgivable, because the story was exciting and the characters remained interesting and likeable. But a lot of it was tied I to a "wait and see" of what kind of reckoning awaited Dexter in the end. As it turns out, nine, save for a last-minute, self-imposed exile that in no way felt earned or built towards through the series or even the season. And yes, the rottenness of the final season and it's finale HAS tainted what came before, for me at least.

It's no surprise to me that Season 4 is widely considered the best season, as it was the one season where Dexter's actions had consequences. Where we saw him get to make bad, selfish decisions that caused him pain and heartbreak that he himself was to blame for, and where decent time was given to show the butterfly effect of his deeds causing misery to those around him, particularly Debra.

 

[moviedoors]

He should've done what he did in the finale waaay before. At least it could've prevented Deb from dying. He screwed up almost everything and everyone, with the exception of Harrison (which is probably the only reason why the finale makes some sort of sense).

Harrison is completely screwed! Dexter destroyed everything in that kid's life and then he abandoned him.

 

[Teelie]

As far as Harrison knows his father died in the hurricane and he's got Hannah as a mother to help him so he's not that bad off. Could be worse, could be better but he's not too far off from where he was when Dexter was still alive to him.

 

[DyeLorean]

Harrison is here in Argentina, he will never be ok.

 

[O'Haire]

Harrison: Can we visit Astor and Cody?

Hannah: Sorry I'm a wanted fugitive. We can't see them ever again.

Poor kid.

 

[Reek]

man **** that kid, he broke the remote

 

[Teelie]

Better than, "can I see daddy?"
"Sorry kid, he's a serial killer on death row."

 

[Reek]

'When is aunt Deb coming to visit?'