Superman Returns Did Lex's plan make sense to anyone?

[The Overlord]

there's no question that this statement is right.

but lex didn't want to do that.

I think what we're seeing on this board is a failure to understand Lex's motivations.

things like wealth or power in the conventional sense is not what motivates lex. he's so much smarter than everyone else that to become the world's richest man, or president is child's play to him. these things are so beneath him that it's almost not worth his effort.

if lex's motivations were to say become as rich as he possibly can, he wouldn't bother ****ing around with superman or on a boat somewhere. he'd be in his office making deals and accumulating more and more money.

in the comics and in the movies, Lex's motivations are much larger than that. what lex wants it to totally DOMINATE every being on earth and have them recognize his superiority

there's 100000000 ways that lex could take over the world. HE'S THAT SMART. of course he could build a warship at any time. he could also at any time corrupt governments, manipulate stock markets, win any war, become the most popular man in the US... YAWN.

i mean ppl are posting here as if Lex winning president would be some sort of accomplishment or even a good plot (laugh) for this movie. there are REAL LIFE human beings doing that RIGHT NOW. does that seem hard to you? something that would be a challange to the world's smartest man? in your mind would Bill Gates be a good adversary for Superman? how about the mental imbecile George Bush? that's a big challange

that sort of crap is beneath lex and Ive always thought that storyline was so laughable. why the HELL would lex care about corrupting americans or conning them into electing him president. dude could WIPE out america and invent his own nation... which would you choose?

Lex is above that stuff, but not conning an old widow out of her money? Does not compute.

Lex with a warship could have blown up North america and used this alien tech to recreate the rest world in his image, that would have been more impressive than Lex sitting around in a cave, with no defense against an air strike.

 

[Willowhugger]

Also, to rebuttal, if Lex had ever LEFT his ship he probably would be killed by people eager to wipe out the man that was the greatest mass murderer of all time.

There's all sorts of problems with the ship as there is anything else.

 

[The Overlord]

You're absolutely right that if Lex Luthor had been attacked during that time, its entirely possible, he would have been killed. I'm not disputing that in the slightest. I debate that he'd be protected against any military retalliation though.

However, it would have accomplished absolutely nothing as everyone still would have died.

Lex Luthor doesn't think these plans entirely though. Do you honestly believe in Superman 1 that he thought that the first people to be investigated for causing the destruction of California wouldn't be those whom benefitted most from it? I'm sure it's possible they could have assumed terrorists but I doubt that there's much difference.

Lex's arrogance is as great as his psychopathia.

See this is way I don't like this version of Lex, he is supposed to brillant, but he always forgets important details like the ones mentioned, a true genius has plans, back up plans, prepares for anything and everything, Dr. Doom for example may be extremely arrogant, but he would never allow that to prevent him from atending to every detail of his plans. That is why movie Lex never seemed that bright to me.

 

[Willowhugger]

Lex is above that stuff, but not conning an old widow out of her money? Does not compute.

Lex with a warship could have blown up North america and used this alien tech to recreate the rest world in his image, that would have been more impressive than Lex sitting around in a cave, with no defense against an air strike.

Lex is still a thug Overlord. He's not a perfect genius. The lex Luthor of the movies is halfway between Mad Scientist/Crook Lex Luthor and Lex Luthor Corporate Mogul.

 

[Willowhugger]

See this is way I don't like this version of Lex, he used to brillant, but he always forgets important details like the ones mentioned, a true genius has plans, back up plans, prepares for anything and everything,Dr. Doom for example may be extremely arrogant, but he would never allow that to prevent him from atending to every detail of his plans. That is why movie Lex never seemed that bright to me.

Well on this, we can agree.

The Superman villains have the odd quality that they make their villain have some pretty glaringly obvious flaws.

I just don't think it was necessarily a deliberate mistake that Luthor's plans have some holes in them. He's a genius but he's also like some version of Doctor Doom that he's pretty divorced from reality.

 

[The Overlord]

Also, to rebuttal, if Lex had ever LEFT his ship he probably would be killed by people eager to wipe out the man that was the greatest mass murderer of all time.

There's all sorts of problems with the ship as there is anything else.

That's assuming that Lex wouldn't have a personal force field or some other tech to defend himself when he leaves his ship. Besides with this NK thing, you don't think a lot of people won't just buy land there, just so they would have a chance to murder Lex in his sleep, in order to get revenge for their dead family mebers?

 

[The Overlord]

Lex is still a thug Overlord. He's not a perfect genius. The lex Luthor of the movies is halfway between Mad Scientist/Crook Lex Luthor and Lex Luthor Corporate Mogul.

Then frankly he doesn't seem like a worthy foe for Superman. Lex's brains is the only advantage he has over Superman, if he is just a thug, well then it is not an interesting dynamic then.

 

[Willowhugger]

That's assuming that Lex wouldn't have a personal force field or some other tech to defend himself when he leaves his ship. Besides with this NK thing, you don't think a lot of people won't just buy land there, just so they would have a chance to murder Lex in his sleep, in order to get revenge for their dead family mebers?

I write RPGs and Novels for a living. One of my best quotes that I ever wrote was from the hero.

"There's a reason that you don't have people trying to blow up Europe usually. Because it's a dumb idea. Supervillains may have profound technological ability but they're often dumb as a post when it comes to how society works. How else would you have a man whom can construct a giant robot wanting to use it to kill the Justice League so he can rob banks with impunity than selling it and living off the money to date supermodels?"

 

[Willowhugger]

Then frankly he doesn't seem like a worthy foe for Superman. Lex's brains is the only advantage he has over Superman, if he is just a thug, well then it is not an interesting dynamic then.

Honestly, the only worthy version of Lex I felt was Red Son. I.e. a Lex Luthor whom was as intelligent as Doctor Doom but also psychotically obsessed with Superman. All others require Luthor to be something of an idiot.

Part of the problem with Lex Luthor is that brains always triumph over brawn and if you make him a subtle manipulator then there's really very few ways that he can oppose Superman.

Theres...

1. I try and smear Superman
2. I have my scientists create a foe for Superman.

Not very dramatic stuff really. It was the big flaw of the President storyline. Lex Luthor by becoming President would be severely curtailed in evil stuff he could do instead of becoming all powerful.

 

[GL1]

Man, it'd be nice if people read my posts and realized that with the Crystals' EMP side effects, Luthor was absolutely impervious to a military strike, except for LONG range nukes (which would take out the east coast anyway)...

In addition, Lex Luthor didn't know that Lois (the ONLY person he explained his plan to (okay, yes, Jason was there too)) was still alive. If she hadn't been alive, then the military would be INVESTIGATING this landmass, not striking against it with all they had instinctivley.

But alas, my posts are apparently too long or they don't quote other people or hurl insults to get attention. Man...

Also, on the subject of Luthor, I don't get this "blue collar" thing. Luthor was not suave and debonair. He didn't have to be, he had no one to play his "businessman act" to. He had a mission and was free to be an eccentric genious jerk all day long. He wasn't high class... he never really has been... but he was hardly a thug either. Luthor, for all his pre-crisis influences was a visionary eccentric buisnessman. The scheme was not a mad plot to take out Superman so we can rob banks with impunity... it was a new world where he would have, essentially, total financial control. Is that business? Is that white collar? You bet your bottom dollar.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

It was genius, but it was also stupid.

It was genius for two reasons. 1) He is growing his own land -- that is freaking brillant and 2) Superman cannot fight you on it -- again freaking brillant.

However it was stupid because, while he apparently does have the power to protect himself with "advanced alien technology" on NK, he kills all the displaced people who would need his land.

 

[GL1]

It was genius, but it was also stupid.

It was genius for two reasons. 1) He is growing his own land -- that is freaking brillant and 2) Superman cannot fight you on it -- again freaking brillant.

However it was stupid because, while he apparently does have the power to protect himself with "advanced alien technology" on NK, he kills all the displaced people who would need his land.

No he doesn't, he kills 50% of them tops... people survive natural disasters, and then they become desperate. Water doesn't teleport on top of them, it flows/floods in, at whatever rate Lex desires. He doesn't kill all of them.

Unless of course, I'm smarter than Lex Luthor, in which case, he would probably kill all of them with uncalculated tidal waves and no advanced warning.

 

[The Overlord]

No he doesn't, he kills 50% of them tops... people survive natural disasters, and then they become desperate. Water doesn't teleport on top of them, it flows/floods in, at whatever rate Lex desires. He doesn't kill all of them.

Unless of course, I'm smarter than Lex Luthor, in which case, he would probably kill all of them with uncalculated tidal waves and no advanced warning.

If Lex is selling land to the few survivors who could afford it, what's to stop them or some rich guy from England who had family in the US, from buying land and murdering Lex in his sleep?

 

[Willowhugger]

If Lex is selling land tgo the few survivors who could afford it, what's to stop them or some rich guy from England who had family in the US, from buying land and murdering Lex in his sleep?

Lex theoretically believes the world will embrace him as their savior or god afterwards. Whether he's right or wrong depends on a situation we didn't see....

Whether he says "Hey! I'm the guy who wiped out the USA! Serve me or die!"

or

"What a tragedy? This is Superman's fault! I've killed him and now have the Kryptonian technology to rebuild the Earth"

 

[The Overlord]

Lex theoretically believes the world will embrace him as their savior or god afterwards. Whether he's right or wrong depends on a situation we didn't see....

Whether he says "Hey! I'm the guy who wiped out the USA! Serve me or die!"

or

"What a tragedy? This is Superman's fault! I've killed him and now have the Kryptonian technology to rebuild the Earth"

If Lex went with the first line, he would ensure that he will be hated and that he will be killed in his sleep. As for the second line, no one would believe him, everyone knows Superman is a hero and that Lex is a criminal in this universe, he will still be killed in his sleep. Jeeze for someone who is supposed to be a genius, he really missed the ball on that one.

 

[GL1]

If Lex is selling land to the few survivors who could afford it, what's to stop them or some rich guy from England who had family in the US, from buying land and murdering Lex in his sleep?

Well I presumed that by the time he was actually selling land, he would have grown some kryptonian weaponry, amassed a loyal powerbase and so on and so forth. And grown some grass. by the time he was ready to make his BIG island, he would have had to been prepared for nuclear strikes and the like.

Lex, barring Superman being rescued, had PLENTY of time to work out all those details... his business plan was still being cultivated, he had gotten his precious resource and had time to develop a distribution and control method, something you hire interns to do.

 

[The Guard]

It's just a stupid, shortsighted plan on almost every level, and it wasn't executed nearly as well as it should have been. Am I the only one who finds it absurd that no one bothered to show any kind of governmental reaction to a freaking island growing in the middle of the ocean and setting of seismic activity? We're talking maybe two minutes of screentime to show that our government can kinda handle themselves but that Luthor was prepared for that eventuality. Seismic readout scene. Government reaction. Scrambling jets. Luthor shoots down jets with a death ray while Superman is saving people on the mainland. Simple.

 

[SilentType]

The answer to all the plot problems seems to be:
1) Lex is illogical and crazy, so his plan doesn't need to make sense
2) Kryptonian tech can do anything and everything (despite there being no evidence of this)

 

[CrypticOne]

Ok, i'll try to explain it.
Lex is desperate for money.
If he grows the land, eventually it will erode and vegetation will begin to grow. For all we know, the crystals have an acelerated rate of erosion and deposition. and Kryptonian vegetation could have grown as well.
If that land takes over the world, Lex will be the one controlling it, he will be in control of the world then.

Yes. The plan was ingenious to me.

 

[Savage]

The answer to all the plot problems seems to be:
1) Lex is illogical and crazy, so his plan doesn't need to make sense
2) Kryptonian tech can do anything and everything (despite there being no evidence of this)

It touched kryptonite and rock and therefore made an island out of kryptonite and rock. It touches vegetation and it will create vegetation. It can easily make the island inhabitable. My only issue is weaponry, which they didn't show.

People have to remember the entire point to the island was that it was literally a small Krypton. Anything Krypton had, it would too. And I'm sure Krypton had a way of defending itself.

 

[The Overlord]

Well I presumed that by the time he was actually selling land, he would have grown some kryptonian weaponry, amassed a loyal powerbase and so on and so forth. And grown some grass. by the time he was ready to make his BIG island, he would have had to been prepared for nuclear strikes and the like.

Lex, barring Superman being rescued, had PLENTY of time to work out all those details... his business plan was still being cultivated, he had gotten his precious resource and had time to develop a distribution and control method, something you hire interns to do.

He had a defense force of 3 really stupid thugs and 1 ditzy and untruthworthy bimbo, so he would have to had weapons that didn't really on manpower. I mean what was he going to do, a grow a fortress or something, because Superman's fortress did jack to prevent Lex from breaking in.

If Lex had all this amazing technology why didn't he set up defenses against a military air strike, instead he kust sat around in a cave, smoking a cigar. Is Lex a moron or something?

 

[SilentType]

It touched kryptonite and rock and therefore made an island out of kryptonite and rock. It touches vegetation and it will create vegetation. It can easily make the island inhabitable. My only issue is weaponry, which they didn't show.

What? That's silly. I can see it replicating mineral properties, but biological matter? It's not a cloning machine, it's a crystal. A "programmable" crystal, but still a crystal. Crystals are made from minerals. Not plants. You can’t have a corn crystal.

 

[The Overlord]

It touched kryptonite and rock and therefore made an island out of kryptonite and rock. It touches vegetation and it will create vegetation. It can easily make the island inhabitable. My only issue is weaponry, which they didn't show.

People have to remember the entire point to the island was that it was literally a small Krypton. Anything Krypton had, it would too. And I'm sure Krypton had a way of defending itself.

If that's true, then why didn't Lex bring plant samples to NK, so he wouldn't have to get them later from hostile turf in order to terra form his land.

Besides that still doesn't answer what defense he had from a military air strike and what was to stop someone from buying land on NK and killing Lex in his sleep, for revenge?

 

[Savage]

What? That's silly. I can see it replicating mineral properties, but biological matter? It's not a cloning machine, it's a crystal. A "programmable" crystal, but still a crystal. Crystals are made from minerals. Not plants. You can’t have a corn crystal.

Yeah, I just noticed that BUT the Kryptonians survived in that type of habitat and Lex did find out everything he needed to know from the crystals on up so he probably knew how to survive as well without the vegitation and what have you.

As for weapons, again, krypton had defenses. Otherwise they would not be able to hold criminals like General Zod. Hell, the fact that he's a General means they had an army and that army had weapons. Lex pretty much had everything in the bag. The island would have to grow first before he did anything however. It was constantly changing and fast at that. Nothing would stick.

 

[SilentType]

Yeah, I just noticed that BUT the Kryptonians survived in that type of habitat and Lex did find out everything he needed to know from the crystals on up so he probably knew how to survive as well without the vegitation and what have you.

As for weapons, again, krypton had defenses. Otherwise they would not be able to hold criminals like General Zod. Hell, the fact that he's a General means they had an army and that army had weapons. Lex pretty much had everything in the bag. The island would have to grow first before he did anything however. It was constantly changing and fast at that. Nothing would stick.

I would assume Kryptonians had Kryptonian plants that evolved on Krypton. I’m pretty sure Lex wasn’t carrying around any Kryptonian plants, or any biological matter.


And by the time the landmass was done growing, Lex would be a smoking irradiated crater.