Superman Returns Did Lex's plan make sense to anyone?

[The Overlord]

Yeah, I just noticed that BUT the Kryptonians survived in that type of habitat and Lex did find out everything he needed to know from the crystals on up so he probably knew how to survive as well without the vegitation and what have you.

As for weapons, again, krypton had defenses. Otherwise they would not be able to hold criminals like General Zod. Hell, the fact that he's a General means they had an army and that army had weapons. Lex pretty much had everything in the bag. The island would have to grow first before he did anything however. It was constantly changing and fast at that. Nothing would stick.

When Kryptonians created these things, I doubt weapons factors popped up with the land mass. Do you have evidence that Lex could grow Super
weapons or you just guessing. Besides if Lex had the ability to create these weapons, then why was sitting around in a cave, instead of setting up defenses, did he want to be killed in a air strike?

 

[Savage]

When Kryptonians created these things, I doubt weapons factors popped up with the land mass. Do you have evidence that Lex could grow Super
weapons or you just guessing. Besides if Lex had the ability to create these weapons, then why was sitting around in a cave, instead of setting up defenses, did he want to be killed in a air strike?

There is no evidence of anything in the movie so we have to speculate. Lex know's everything about Krypton right? He must have had to have known that they had an army. Armies have weapons. This is a civilization years ahead of us so this is advanced kryptonian technology at that. Lex has the knowledge to create this.

And like I said, he had to get through the first phase of the plan before moving on. Let the land grow first before putting stuff on it. Whatever he puts on it at the current time would not be in that same spot when he got back to it. The island/continent was still growing.

What's funny is no-one I knew who saw the movie had a problem with the plan and even I didn't notice anything wrong with it either time I watched it till I got on here. I still don't see what's wrong with the plan and I totally understood what he was going for from his retelling of the story of Prometheus.

 

[SilentType]

And like I said, he had to get through the first phase of the plan before moving on. Let the land grow first before putting stuff on it. Whatever he puts on it at the current time would not be in that same spot when he got back to it. The island/continent was still growing.

And the army is going to be kind and wait for him to finish? By the time the land is done growing Lex will be a crater.

 

[Willowhugger]

If Lex went with the first line, he would ensure that he will be hated and that he will be killed in his sleep. As for the second line, no one would believe him, everyone knows Superman is a hero and that Lex is a criminal in this universe, he will still be killed in his sleep. Jeeze for someone who is supposed to be a genius, he really missed the ball on that one.

For the second line, Lex has proof of alien technology and people have turned on heroes for worse. But yes, I fully believe lex is arrogant enough to believe that people would believe him.

 

[Sandman138]

im still not sure how luthor was able access Kryptonian knowledge from supermans fotress, which you would think would only be accesible to superman or a kryptonian. 2 why didn't Luthor use this technology [which he someow understands] to build himself up, hell start his own business become the most "powerful man in Metropolis" like he was in the 90s comics/Bryne years. Superman could not touch him if he was a legit business man, which might be the most ingenuis thing form the Bryne era comics.

Why build a buisness when you can change the world?

 

[SilentType]

Why build a buisness when you can change the world?

So Lex just wants people to know his name? Because that's all he'd get out of the New Krypton deal. Other than the world’s largest wasteland and either a quick death from a bomb, or a slow lingering death from starvation and dehydration.

 

[Savage]

And the army is going to be kind and wait for him to finish? By the time the land is done growing Lex will be a crater.

The army wouldn't have enough time to react. You saw how fast the island was growing. The island doesn't literally crash into America and push it out of the way. All people would know was that America was mysteriously falling off the face of the earth. The island was still pretty far away when Metropolis was being destroyed. Hell, even Superman wasn't able to see it. He just flew towards the storm.

The basic point is by the time anybody DID know, it would be too late. I mean god knows how many real life tragedies could have been avoided if the military acted as fast as you say they do.

 

[Savage]

So Lex just wants people to know his name? Because that's all he'd get out of the New Krypton deal. Other than the world’s largest wasteland and either a quick death from a bomb, or a slow lingering death from starvation and dehydration.

Then how did Krypton survive long enough to be "centuries ahead of us"? When he asked to be told everything, he got everything.

 

[SilentType]

The army wouldn't have enough time to react. You saw how fast the island was growing. The island doesn't literally crash into America and push it out of the way. All people would know was that America was mysteriously falling off the face of the earth. The island was still pretty far away when Metropolis was being destroyed. Hell, even Superman wasn't able to see it. He just flew towards the storm.

The basic point is by the time anybody DID know, it would be too late. I mean god knows how many real life tragedies could have been avoided if the military acted as fast as you say they do.

It may grow fast, but it would still take a long time to eat the entire US.
So you’re saying:
A) none of our satellites would see the giant land mass growing in the pacific
B) after this thing has eaten the east coast we wouldn't be throwing everything we got at trying to destroy this thing. While a few Nukes at the center of the thing might not destroy it, it would certainly kill anything sitting on it smoking a cigar.

Then how did Krypton survive long enough to be "centuries ahead of us"? When he asked to be told everything, he got everything.

I'm sure they had plants and animals that evolved on their planet. Ones that grow in that environment. If all their food was grown from magic crystals, how did they survive before their technology?
And where would Lex get Kryptonian plants or animals?
I forgot, Kryptonian Tech does EVERYTHING.
They invented the Deus Ex Machina.
A solution to every plot hole in one simple package. They can grow weapons (but only later). They can make food and water appear out of thin air. They can organize a society. Crowd control. Distribution of resources. Protection from the worlds armies. All with only a staff of 4.

I guess it goes with:

The answer to all the plot problems seems to be:
1) Lex is illogical and crazy, so his plan doesn't need to make sense
2) Kryptonian tech can do anything and everything (despite there being no evidence of this)

 

[Savage]

It may grow fast, but it would still take a long time to eat the entire US.
So you’re saying:
A) none of our satellites would see the giant land mass growing in the pacific
B) after this thing has eaten the east coast we wouldn't be throwing everything we got at trying to destroy this thing. While a few Nukes at the center of the thing might not destroy it, it would certainly kill anything sitting on it smoking a cigar.



I'm sure they had plants and animals that evolved on their planet. Ones that grow in that environment. If all their food was grown from magic crystals, how did they survive before their technology?
And where would Lex get Kryptonian plants or animals?
I forgot, Kryptonian Tech does EVERYTHING.
They invented the Deus Ex Machina.
A solution to every plot hole in one simple package. They can grow weapons (but only later). They can make food and water appear out of thin air. They can organize a society. Crowd control. Distribution of resources. Protection from the worlds armies. All with only a staff of 4.

I guess it goes with:

Did we have to actually see what Lex knew? Did we have to sit there with him while Jor-El told him everything? Assuming he didn't know what he was doing just because we didn't see it doesn't say much (and I know that works both ways). We do know that Lex is a smart guy who got even smarter once he reached the fortress of solitude. I'd rather believe he knew what he was doing and enjoy my sci-fi flick than assume he's a power hungry idiot and overthink things. The man gained knowledge centuries ahead of our own (essentially making him a super genius) and using that knowledge orchestrated a plan that would make him ruler of the planet.

Yes he could have sold the tech and made money but compared to ruling the entire planet, it pales miserably in comparison. I saw him sitting there smoking a cigar as not just arrogance but confidence as well. I mean I'm sure I'd have the advantage if I went back in time to the 8th century with the knowledge that I have now.

Call it a Deus Ex Machina all you want but the fact is he was smarter than anybody on the planet and with technology far ahead of them as well. He had the brains and the tools to get the job done and he has shown to be a very opportunistic man. It's out of character and improbable for him to just go stupid all of a sudden.

In the end can we all just let this go? We're talking about a movie with a guy that can grow land out of crystals for christ's sake.

 

[SilentType]

Did we have to actually see what Lex knew? Did we have to sit there with him while Jor-El told him everything? Assuming he didn't know what he was doing just because we didn't see it doesn't say much (and I know that works both ways). We do know that Lex is a smart guy who got even smarter once he reached the fortress of solitude. I'd rather believe he knew what he was doing and enjoy my sci-fi flick than assume he's a power hungry idiot and overthink things. The man gained knowledge centuries ahead of our own (essentially making him a super genius) and using that knowledge orchestrated a plan that would make him ruler of the planet.

Knowledge? Of what? What knowledge would have solved all these problems?
What could he know that would make food and water appear out of thin air? Or control an entire populous with four people. These are not cerebral problems; these are problems of resources and manpower. He had neither. He had a barren hunk of rock and four goons.
The answer? The film makers left it all up to a Deus Ex Machina of Kryptonian Technology. They knew they weren’t going to have to deal with it, because Lex’s plan would be thwarted, so they didn’t fully think out the plot. I find it lazy and unconvincing.

 

[The Overlord]

For the second line, Lex has proof of alien technology and people have turned on heroes for worse. But yes, I fully believe lex is arrogant enough to believe that people would believe him.

They haven't turned on heroes ever, in the Superman movie universe, so that logic doesn't hold. Plus Lex is a known criminal and has triued to pull such grand and ultimatelt stupid real estate scams before, so Lex would have to be completely stupid to think he could fool anyone into believing him.

 

[The Overlord]

Did we have to actually see what Lex knew? Did we have to sit there with him while Jor-El told him everything? Assuming he didn't know what he was doing just because we didn't see it doesn't say much (and I know that works both ways). We do know that Lex is a smart guy who got even smarter once he reached the fortress of solitude. I'd rather believe he knew what he was doing and enjoy my sci-fi flick than assume he's a power hungry idiot and overthink things. The man gained knowledge centuries ahead of our own (essentially making him a super genius) and using that knowledge orchestrated a plan that would make him ruler of the planet.

Yes he could have sold the tech and made money but compared to ruling the entire planet, it pales miserably in comparison. I saw him sitting there smoking a cigar as not just arrogance but confidence as well. I mean I'm sure I'd have the advantage if I went back in time to the 8th century with the knowledge that I have now.

Call it a Deus Ex Machina all you want but the fact is he was smarter than anybody on the planet and with technology far ahead of them as well. He had the brains and the tools to get the job done and he has shown to be a very opportunistic man. It's out of character and improbable for him to just go stupid all of a sudden.

In the end can we all just let this go? We're talking about a movie with a guy that can grow land out of crystals for christ's sake.

If he was so clever then why don't he use this tech to create any defenses, why did he just sit there, leaving himself open to an air strike? If Lex wanted to rule the world directly, why not create an alien tech based warship, blow up North America and cow the rest of the world into submission. The military couldn't have struck him, if he was in an alien warship at the time. That would have been a way better plan to over the world, than some stupid real estate scam.

Really now, what's to stop someone from buying some land on NK and murdering Lex in his sleep for revenge?

 

[The Guard]

And logic carries the day again.

There's never really any evidence given that Lex Luthor is "smarter than anyone else on the planet". Just that he's more ambitious, and thinks he's the smartest criminal on the planet. It was a plan that was not thought through, and not well executed storywise, and suffers for it when the details of its mechanics are considered.

 

[Octoberist]

that's true, Guard. Lex is suppose to be a great scientific mind, and in the movie, we have a very ambitious conman. He's smart, but in a way where he'll yell out "Look at me, I'm smart."

But I think Spacey's a more cold Lex than Hackman's. He has less facial expressions, while Hackman had cartoony ones, which IS a plus.

 

[Jakomus]

But I think Spacey's a more cold Lex than Hackman's. He has less facial expressions, while Hackman had cartoony ones, which IS a plus.

WHAT?

Go watch Superman the Movie please. Either you have no idea what you are talking about or you consider any facial expression other than deadpan 'cartoony'.

 

[Darkhawk77]

I understood it, but I thought it was lame, too weak. I wish they had done the Death and Return story.

 

[nightwing06]

Lex's plan was my major gripe with the movie,i found it to be very boring.
I hope they move on from Lex's land obssession in the second film.
Bring Lex back to manipulate Braniac or something.

 

[LongshotRules]

I find it hard, no impossible, that the world will make deals with someone who's responsible for the destruction of US continent and murderer of millions. I thought the Western world don't deal with terrorist. How was Lex expected countries would just hand over the money after what he has done to America? Either they send nukes after nukes on him or they surround him with weapons and cut off any escape route and have him starve to death or surrender. Lex did not create any means of sustaining life from the crystals and therefore even if he can create weapons he has no way of staying alive without buying food from somewhere. So his plans were flawed from the beginning and it's pretty obvious Singer and Co. did not think it through and just assume that audience don't pick up on it. Very bad job of storytelling imo.

 

[nogster]

I find it hard, no impossible, that the world will make deals with someone who's responsible for the destruction of US continent and murderer of millions. I thought the Western world don't deal with terrorist. How was Lex expected countries would just hand over the money after what he has done to America? Either they send nukes after nukes on him or they surround him with weapons and cut off any escape route and have him starve to death or surrender. Lex did not create any means of sustaining life from the crystals and therefore even if he can create weapons he has no way of staying alive without buying food from somewhere. So his plans were flawed from the beginning and it's pretty obvious Singer and Co. did not think it through and just assume that audience don't pick up on it. Very bad job of storytelling imo.

agreed. and thats the problem with the movie. the story is weak. superman was great in the movie. but the story he was involved in was silly and shallow.
from lex's plot revelation, the movie lost its step and the story telling became weak. too many flaws in the construct of the plot.
lex's plan doesnt make sense and is poorly written.
then when superman saves the day by carrying this krypton island into space with a krypton piece imbedded in him still. the story falls down even more. i cant understand how that can be looked over.
we are meant to believe that if superman gets his yellow sun charge then he is armoured against the effects krypton has on him?
silly.

 

[EternalMaster]

Lex's master plan was kinda weak. I mean, if the plot was aimed at younger kids... sure it would be fine. Or if Lex wanted to destroy the world just because he's evil, sure it would be fine.

But here, his actions did not rationally match up with his ideas.

The crystal was eventually going to make a continent that would destroy most of North America... along with LARGE chunks of Africa and South America according to Lex's maps. Plus, the effects on ocean levels... climate... the atmosphere... it's no wonder he believed that billions would die.

Yet his GOAL was to create land that he owned alone and then sell it.

First off, no government on Earth would recognize Lex as having the right to own that land. If you kill billions of people, governments are gonna come after you. Not cater to you.

Secondly, if Lex destroys nations and crashes the world's economy... who is going to be able to buy his land even if we suppose that he'd actually be able to control all that land.

Third, the US military would wipe him out. A decent amount of time went by, and that island still hadn't grown enough to do more than give Metropolis an earthquake. The military would have plenty of time to bomb the crap out of that island or even just storm it and capture Luthor. Luthor had no Kryptonian weapons. We don't even know if he knew how to build them yet. Or how long building them would take. Plus, he only had three guys with him. Even if the weapons popped out quick, three guys vs. hundreds of thousand of US soldiers??? Numbers will win out even if the weapons are uber powerful.

Fourth, if all went to plan and the continent grew... people will be swarming all over that new continent in order to seek a place to live. How was Lex planning on monitoring his borders for an entire continent... with just THREE guys and himself? Advanced alien border protection? lol

Imagine if the United States was completely barren except for 4 guys with some insanely powerful guns. Now imagine millions of people trying to get onto the US coming from Mexico, Canada, and over the sea. The 4 guys would never stop them all. Nor would the 4 guys have any way to regulate or control all those people.

So Lex's plan fails on almost every level of planning. Which is sad since he's supposed to be a genius.

For anyone saying "Oh, Spider-Man's villains plans were dumb too!"... what are you talking about?

Green Goblin wanted to kill off the people trying to take his company away. And he did by using his secret ID. And guess what? His plan worked. After that, he just started to go completely insane and wanted to murder people who challenged him. So he does all sorts of crazy stuff to piss off Spidey and try to kill him.

Doc Ock was simply 100% insane after the artificial intelligence in his mechanized arms took over. He really had NO plan at all other than trying to get money to finish his plan for controlled fusion (an obsession that the arms fed into). Crazy plan for a totally insane guy.

Lex doesn't get the luxury of being totally insane like Doc Ock... mostly because he's supposed to be a criminal genius. Up until his "real estate plan", everything he did was logical and calculated and worked.

Then he just whips out a scheme that a totally insane person would use, but he's supposed to be doing it for logical reasons.

And oddly enough, even insane Doc Ock's plans worked out. He managed to get all the money and material he needed to finish his project. Only after getting knocked around and gaining control over his arms did he realize his plan was insane/fruitless and put a stop to it.

But if Lex's plan had gone through... even the way he wanted it... it would have failed. Hence, his master plan is craptacular.

 

[HoratioRome]

Lex's master plan was kinda weak. I mean, if the plot was aimed at younger kids... sure it would be fine. Or if Lex wanted to destroy the world just because he's evil, sure it would be fine.

But here, his actions did not rationally match up with his ideas.

The crystal was eventually going to make a continent that would destroy most of North America... along with LARGE chunks of Africa and South America according to Lex's maps. Plus, the effects on ocean levels... climate... the atmosphere... it's no wonder he believed that billions would die.

Yet his GOAL was to create land that he owned alone and then sell it.

First off, no government on Earth would recognize Lex as having the right to own that land. If you kill billions of people, governments are gonna come after you. Not cater to you.

Secondly, if Lex destroys nations and crashes the world's economy... who is going to be able to buy his land even if we suppose that he'd actually be able to control all that land.

Third, the US military would wipe him out. A decent amount of time went by, and that island still hadn't grown enough to do more than give Metropolis an earthquake. The military would have plenty of time to bomb the crap out of that island or even just storm it and capture Luthor. Luthor had no Kryptonian weapons. We don't even know if he knew how to build them yet. Or how long building them would take. Plus, he only had three guys with him. Even if the weapons popped out quick, three guys vs. hundreds of thousand of US soldiers??? Numbers will win out even if the weapons are uber powerful.

Fourth, if all went to plan and the continent grew... people will be swarming all over that new continent in order to seek a place to live. How was Lex planning on monitoring his borders for an entire continent... with just THREE guys and himself? Advanced alien border protection? lol

Imagine if the United States was completely barren except for 4 guys with some insanely powerful guns. Now imagine millions of people trying to get onto the US coming from Mexico, Canada, and over the sea. The 4 guys would never stop them all. Nor would the 4 guys have any way to regulate or control all those people.

So Lex's plan fails on almost every level of planning. Which is sad since he's supposed to be a genius.

For anyone saying "Oh, Spider-Man's villains plans were dumb too!"... what are you talking about?

Green Goblin wanted to kill off the people trying to take his company away. And he did by using his secret ID. And guess what? His plan worked. After that, he just started to go completely insane and wanted to murder people who challenged him. So he does all sorts of crazy stuff to piss off Spidey and try to kill him.

Doc Ock was simply 100% insane after the artificial intelligence in his mechanized arms took over. He really had NO plan at all other than trying to get money to finish his plan for controlled fusion (an obsession that the arms fed into). Crazy plan for a totally insane guy.

Lex doesn't get the luxury of being totally insane like Doc Ock... mostly because he's supposed to be a criminal genius. Up until his "real estate plan", everything he did was logical and calculated and worked.

Then he just whips out a scheme that a totally insane person would use, but he's supposed to be doing it for logical reasons.

And oddly enough, even insane Doc Ock's plans worked out. He managed to get all the money and material he needed to finish his project. Only after getting knocked around and gaining control over his arms did he realize his plan was insane/fruitless and put a stop to it.

But if Lex's plan had gone through... even the way he wanted it... it would have failed. Hence, his master plan is craptacular.

I CANNOT believe that we have to actually explain to people why Lex's plan was dumb. Great job in your explanation btw, but are we THAT stupid, that people couldn't,...CAN'T recognize these flaws themselves? What have we come to that people are actually arguing the intelligence of Lex's plan. my EIGHT YEAR OLD daughter, recognized how SILLY the plot was. my goodness, we are in some serious trouble in this world, if ANY of us think there is ANY intelligence in Lex's plan.
We are in trouble if people don't recognize and agree with your points.
Personally I've stopped trying. If you don't get how campy this plot was on your own, it's pretty much too late for you.

 

[Raiden]

I CANNOT believe that we have to actually explain to people why Lex's plan was dumb. Great job in your explanation btw, but are we THAT stupid, that people couldn't,...CAN'T recognize these flaws themselves? What have we come to that people are actually arguing the intelligence of Lex's plan. my EIGHT YEAR OLD daughter, recognized how SILLY the plot was. my goodness, we are in some serious trouble in this world, if ANY of us think there is ANY intelligence in Lex's plan.
We are in trouble if people don't recognize and agree with your points.
Personally I've stopped trying. If you don't get how campy this plot was on your own, it's pretty much too late for you.

Well, some people here actually thought that Lex's master plan is fool-proof and makes sense.

 

[the norminator]

wait one dang minute you think Doc Ock's and GG's plan was great but Lex's plan sucks....... yeah right. All three plans wouldn't make it in the real world so stop all this. I can pick at Ock's and GG's "master" plan all day too and you all know it. Its a movie let it go.....thx norm

 

[kal-el2006]

lol doc ock mechanical arms with a "mind" of its own..comedy...but that made "sense"?