Discussion: Legalizing Marijuana

[doih]

Alcohol is more harmful than heroin or crack when the overall dangers to the individual and society are considered, according to a study in the Lancet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210

 

[Trainwreck2100]

Alcohol is more harmful than heroin or crack when the overall dangers to the individual and society are considered, according to a study in the Lancet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210

Cause its legal

seriously? the drug that's easily accessible is the one that's most destructive? They needed a study for that?

 

[Anti-Moderator]

Marijuana legalization measure loses in California

From Associated Press
November 03, 2010 5:36 AM EDT

LOS ANGELES (AP) — California voters declined to make their trendsetting state the nation's first to legalize marijuana use and sales, heeding warnings of legal chaos and that pot smokers would get behind the wheel and show up to work while high.

The legalization effort was losing by nine percentage points with more than two-thirds of precincts reporting. Backers showed support for the measure by gathering outside the campaign's headquarters to watch returns come in — some of them lighting up joints to mark the occasion.

Supporters of Proposition 19 blamed Tuesday's outcome on the conservative leanings of older voters who participate in midterm elections. They also acknowledged that young voters had not turned out in sufficient numbers to secure victory, but said they were ready to try again in two years.

"It's still a historic moment in this very long struggle to end decades of failed marijuana prohibition," said Stephen Gutwillig, California director for the Drug Policy Project. "Unquestionably, because of Proposition 19, marijuana legalization initiatives will be on the ballot in a number of states in 2012, and California is in the mix."

Tim Rosales, who managed the No on 19 campaign, scoffed at that attitude from the losing side.

"If they think they are going to be back in two years, they must be smoking something," he said. "This is a state that just bucked the national trend and went pretty hard on the Democratic side, but yet in the same vote opposed Prop 19. I think that says volumes as far as where California voters are on this issue."

The campaign pitted the state's political and law enforcement establishment against determined activists. Images of marijuana leaves and smashed-up cars and school buses appeared in dueling ads during the campaign.

In a sign of what a tough sell it was, an exit poll conducted for The Associated Press showed opposition cutting across gender and racial lines, as well as income and education levels.

The ballot measure lost in the state's vaunted marijuana-growing region known as the "Emerald Triangle" of Humboldt, Mendocino and Trinity counties. Many in the region feared the system they have created would be taken over by corporations or lose its purpose.

Proponents pitched it as a sensible, though unprecedented, experiment that would provide tax revenue for the cash-strapped state, dent the drug-related violence in Mexico by causing pot prices to plummet, and reduce marijuana arrests that they say disproportionately target minority youth.

In the weeks leading to the election, federal officials said they planned to continue enforcing laws making marijuana possession and sales illegal and were considering suing to overturn the California initiative if voters approved it.

"Today, Californians recognized that legalizing marijuana will not make our citizens healthier, solve California's budget crisis, or reduce drug related violence in Mexico," White House Drug Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske said.

Voters in three other states cast ballots on medical marijuana-related measures.

In South Dakota, voters rejected for the second time a measure to legalize marijuana for medical use — a step taken by California in 1996 and 13 other states since. Oregon voters refused to expand their state's medical marijuana program to create a network of state-licensed nonprofit dispensaries where patients could have purchased the drug.

A medical marijuana measure on Arizona's ballot was too close to call early Wednesday.

California's marijuana proposal would have allowed adults 21 and over to possess up to an ounce of pot, consume it in nonpublic places as long as no children were present, and grow it in small private plots.

It also would have authorized local governments to permit commercial pot cultivation, as well as the sale and use of marijuana at licensed establishments.

 

[BlackLantern]

interesting, id like to see the actual numbers on that when they are official

 

[StorminNorman]

That ruined my night.

I am glad the GOP took the House, but the defeat of Angle in Nevada, Tancredo in Colorado and Marijuana in California was a major drag.

At least the GOP retained the Florida governorship which will be vital for redistricting purposes.

 

[BlackLantern]

I think this, along with Prop 8, were the victim of indifference....sure you had a lot of people voting on it but they were people that had a stake in it one way or the other

there are plenty of people who probably didn't even bother to vote on it because it doesn't affect them

 

[Paroxysm]

Marijuana legalization measure loses in California

From Associated Press
November 03, 2010 5:36 AM EDT

LOS ANGELES (AP) — California voters declined to make their trendsetting state the nation's first to legalize marijuana use and sales, heeding warnings of legal chaos and that pot smokers would get behind the wheel and show up to work while high.

The legalization effort was losing by nine percentage points with more than two-thirds of precincts reporting. Backers showed support for the measure by gathering outside the campaign's headquarters to watch returns come in — some of them lighting up joints to mark the occasion.

Supporters of Proposition 19 blamed Tuesday's outcome on the conservative leanings of older voters who participate in midterm elections. They also acknowledged that young voters had not turned out in sufficient numbers to secure victory, but said they were ready to try again in two years.

"It's still a historic moment in this very long struggle to end decades of failed marijuana prohibition," said Stephen Gutwillig, California director for the Drug Policy Project. "Unquestionably, because of Proposition 19, marijuana legalization initiatives will be on the ballot in a number of states in 2012, and California is in the mix."

Tim Rosales, who managed the No on 19 campaign, scoffed at that attitude from the losing side.

"If they think they are going to be back in two years, they must be smoking something," he said. "This is a state that just bucked the national trend and went pretty hard on the Democratic side, but yet in the same vote opposed Prop 19. I think that says volumes as far as where California voters are on this issue."

The campaign pitted the state's political and law enforcement establishment against determined activists. Images of marijuana leaves and smashed-up cars and school buses appeared in dueling ads during the campaign.

In a sign of what a tough sell it was, an exit poll conducted for The Associated Press showed opposition cutting across gender and racial lines, as well as income and education levels.

The ballot measure lost in the state's vaunted marijuana-growing region known as the "Emerald Triangle" of Humboldt, Mendocino and Trinity counties. Many in the region feared the system they have created would be taken over by corporations or lose its purpose.

Proponents pitched it as a sensible, though unprecedented, experiment that would provide tax revenue for the cash-strapped state, dent the drug-related violence in Mexico by causing pot prices to plummet, and reduce marijuana arrests that they say disproportionately target minority youth.

In the weeks leading to the election, federal officials said they planned to continue enforcing laws making marijuana possession and sales illegal and were considering suing to overturn the California initiative if voters approved it.

"Today, Californians recognized that legalizing marijuana will not make our citizens healthier, solve California's budget crisis, or reduce drug related violence in Mexico," White House Drug Policy Director Gil Kerlikowske said.

Voters in three other states cast ballots on medical marijuana-related measures.

In South Dakota, voters rejected for the second time a measure to legalize marijuana for medical use — a step taken by California in 1996 and 13 other states since. Oregon voters refused to expand their state's medical marijuana program to create a network of state-licensed nonprofit dispensaries where patients could have purchased the drug.

A medical marijuana measure on Arizona's ballot was too close to call early Wednesday.

California's marijuana proposal would have allowed adults 21 and over to possess up to an ounce of pot, consume it in nonpublic places as long as no children were present, and grow it in small private plots.

It also would have authorized local governments to permit commercial pot cultivation, as well as the sale and use of marijuana at licensed establishments.

This is good news for me, British Columbia and the city of Vancouver.

I'll light one up for the folks in Cali.

 

[TheVileOne]

At the end of the day, all the dumbass hipsters and potheads that support pot and pot legalization were too high to get off their asses and vote.

 

[BlackLantern]

and its not something that affected the populace en masse....I barely drink, Im not a smoker, and weed really has no standing in my day to day so its not something I would have bothered to vote on

 

[BlackLantern]

found the numbers for Propr 19...via the Sacramento Bee

3,826,487 against

3,297,590 for

 

[StorminNorman]

At the end of the day, all the dumbass hipsters and potheads that support pot and pot legalization were too high to get off their asses and vote.

Yup, so instead the populace of California made an indefensible lapse in judgment. Criminalization of marijuana does not hurt smokers but instead helps gangs, cartels and drug dealers.

There is no issue more black and white than the legalization of drugs. It's as fundamental as right and wrong. There is no rational, reasonable, moral argument in favor of criminalization.

Liberty, human rights and common sense were defeated along side Proposition 19.

 

[BlackLantern]

but only 7 million voted on it....so a lot of people who this doesn't affect didn't even bother to vote on it

 

[LOBO3315a]

Yeah, there's a lot more than 7 million registered voters in CA. 22,153,555 by last count in 08.

http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2008G.html

 

[Carcharodon]

but only 7 million voted on it....so a lot of people who this doesn't affect didn't even bother to vote on it

Which is a bit short-sighted, considering the potential for economic benefits from this bill.

 

[enterthemadness]

found the numbers for Propr 19...via the Sacramento Bee

3,826,487 against

3,297,590 for

Pretty close. Right?

 

[BlackLantern]

Yeah, there's a lot more than 7 million registered voters in CA. 22,153,555 by last count in 08.

http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2008G.html

22 million?? damn

Which is a bit short-sighted, considering the potential for economic benefits from this bill.

most voters don't think past their own nose....in a voter initiative like this, the side that loses by that small of a margin failed to reach out to those in the middle or undecided

much like Prop 8

 

[TheVileOne]

StorminNormin, its obviously not a black and white issue. Don't try to pass off your opinion as fact.

Its so black and white, the voters of California and South Dakota voted against it. They don't feel legalization will make their lives and health better.

All these legal age potheads and hipsters that won't even probably register to vote to get their decriminalization of the J passed.

 

[Carcharodon]

All these legal age potheads and hipsters that won't even probably register to vote to get their decriminalization of the J passed.

So...are ignorant generalizations your specialty, or do you like to branch out every once in a while?

StorminNormin, its obviously not a black and white issue. Don't try to pass off your opinion as fact.

I personally agree, but it makes sense from Norman's political philosophy. From his perspective, it is black and white. According to him, the government has no place interfering in our daily lives, including the regulation of what we put into our bodies and what we have the right to put in our bodies.

 

[StorminNorman]

StorminNormin, its obviously not a black and white issue. Don't try to pass off your opinion as fact.

Its so black and white, the voters of California and South Dakota voted against it. They don't feel legalization will make their lives and health better.

All these legal age potheads and hipsters that won't even probably register to vote to get their decriminalization of the J passed.

Being black and white doesn't mean everyone is going to recognize the correct answer. If 80% of the class thinks Columbus discovered Antarctica, it doesn't make it true.

Attempt to defend your position and I will show with great ease, beyond a shadow of the doubt, how it's simply wrong.

Again, few issues in politics enjoy the ability of being so simple.

 

[StorminNorman]

I personally agree, but it makes sense from Norman's political philosophy. From his perspective, it is black and white. According to him, the government has no place interfering in our daily lives, including the regulation of what we put into our bodies and what we have the right to put in our bodies.

While you accurately describe my philosophy, the simple nature of the issue knows no political ideology.

I mean if the purpose of criminalization is to prevent people from smoking, it's an obvious failure. Can we agree? So then the question of criminalization's effectiveness if instantly solved. Then the question comes to what are the consequences of criminalization? It's kids smoking K2 spice and poisoning themselves because it's legal and pots not. It's kids taking 20 capsules of cough medicine and "robotripping". It's gang violence that arises in profitable black markets. It's drug dealers profiting from the sell of marijuana instead of teachers (by way of state revenue coming from drug sales if you want to play that card).

Again, if you are pro drug criminalization you are effectively pro gang violence, pro drug dealer and pro poison. That's the reality. Ignoring those facts does not change them.

 

[TheVileOne]

Should bank robbery be legal because people still rob banks so that means the laws against theft and stealing have failed?

 

[Carcharodon]

While you accurately describe my philosophy, the simple nature of the issue knows no political ideology.

I mean if the purpose of criminalization is to prevent people from smoking, it's an obvious failure. Can we agree? So then the question of criminalization's effectiveness if instantly solved. Then the question comes to what are the consequences of criminalization? It's kids smoking K2 spice and poisoning themselves because it's legal and pots not. It's kids taking 20 capsules of cough medicine and "robotripping". It's gang violence that arises in profitable black markets. It's drug dealers profiting from the sell of marijuana instead of teachers (by way of state revenue coming from drug sales if you want to play that card).

Again, if you are pro drug criminalization you are effectively pro gang violence, pro drug dealer and pro poison. That's the reality. Ignoring those facts does not change them.

You're talking about the legalization of any and all illicit drugs. Not only that, but you wouldn't want them regulated. I can't agree with that idea.

 

[BlackLantern]

and from a purely PR standpoint, this failed to pass in what most consider the most liberal state in the US, so what are the chances of it passing anywhere else going forward?

 

[TheVileOne]

There was a similar measure in South Dakota and it failed to pass there.

 

[StorminNorman]

Should bank robbery be legal because people still rob banks so that means the laws against theft and stealing have failed?

You can't compare drugs to theft. Theft infringes upon personal property rights, the use of drugs don't. In fact criminalization of drugs is more comparable to theft than decriminalization of drugs due to the fact that the former IS a violation of personal property rights.

Please keep the hilariously inept rebuttals coming.

You're talking about the legalization of any and all illicit drugs. Not only that, but you wouldn't want them regulated. I can't agree with that idea.

Actually that's not what I was talking about, though obviously much of the same arguments can be used for all illicit drug arguments. Don't get me wrong, I am 100% for across the board drug decriminalization (though only support the legalization of marijuana), but that wasn't the topic of that specific post.