Discussion: Racism - Part 1

[InCali]

No one here has mentioned SJWs except for you. Why do you continue to use terms that aren't being discussed and insist that we're discussing them?

The term SJW has not once appeared in any of DeadPresident's posts.

You all are worse than a bunch of IT dweebs....I know because that's exactly what I am.

What's SJW?

 

[Kelly]

You all are worse than a bunch of IT dweebs....I know because that's exactly what I am.

What's SJW?

Social Justice Warrior

 

[InCali]

Social Justice Warrior

Thanks Kara Zor-El.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

No one here has mentioned SJWs except for you. Why do you continue to use terms that aren't being discussed and insist that we're discussing them?

The term SJW has not once appeared in any of DeadPresident's posts.

Just my attempt to make his argument relevant.

Nobody cares about black nationalist. They're a fraction of the US population.

And the idea they pose a greater threat to a free and democratic society than the alt right is laughable at best.

 

[chamber-music]

Air China says beware of London's areas with Indians, Pakistanis, black people

A Chinese journalist today brought to attention Air China's racist warning to passengers about moving around in London - avoid areas populated by Indians, Pakistanis and black people.

"London is generally a safe place to travel, however precautions are needed when entering areas mainly populated by Indians, Pakistanis and black people," Air China says in its in-flight magazine.

Haze Fan, the journalist tweeted a photograph of the 'warning' to London mayor Sadiq Khan. She also wrote about it for CNBC.com.

People are stumped by this racist article. The city is very multiracial and multicultural. There is rarely any problems. There are a number of areas in London with Chinese ex-pats, students and immigrants living side by side with black, Pakistani and Indians with no issues.

Some of the most dangerous areas of London are the tourist areas of the West end. Pickpockets, thieves and drug addicts specifically go to those areas to target tourists. The article should of highlighted that instead of this racist BS.

 

[moviedoors]

Lol, we're arguing which is a greater threat to society, SJWs or the alt right.

Actually, that's not what I'm arguing at all. In this particular instance, I'm not interested in the oh-so tired partisan tactic of accusing the other side of being worse in response to a criticism. I already know the extreme right is horrific. I lean left, and I'm interested in the ways the left has failed us, so we can do better. We're not getting there by going "but da other side is more bad!" every time someone criticizes or points out problems.

 

[terry78]

You'd never lump South Asians and blacks together like that here. If anything the thing would just say, "avoid places with large amounts of blacks."

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Actually, that's not what I'm arguing at all. In this particular instance, I'm not interested in the oh-so tired partisan tactic of accusing the other side of being worse in response to a criticism. I already know the extreme right is horrific. I lean left, and I'm interested in the ways the left has failed us, so we can do better. We're not getting there by going "but da other side is more bad!" every time someone criticizes or points out problems.

But I don't see the point of nitpicking Liberals when an authoritarian, neofascist is getting ever so close to becoming leader of the free world.

Saying "but teh Liberal are imperfect" at times like these is not wise. Pick another time to be critical of the left.

Like the day after November 8th.

 

[moviedoors]

But I don't see the point of nitpicking Liberals when an authoritarian, neofascist is getting ever so close to becoming leader of the free world.

Saying "but teh Liberal are imperfect" at times like these is not wise. Pick another time to be critical of the left.

Like the day after November 8th.

Our piddly little discussion on the flaws of modern day liberalism on a superhero messageboard is somehow emboldening to the far right and endangering the future of America?

I think we can talk about identity politics run amok here without dooming the nation to oblivion.

 

[Handsome Rob]

But I don't see the point of nitpicking Liberals when an authoritarian, neofascist is getting ever so close to becoming leader of the free world.

Saying "but teh Liberal are imperfect" at times like these is not wise. Pick another time to be critical of the left.

Like the day after November 8th.

Yeah, I'm not going to bestow temporary "sainthood" on the Left just because they perceive a greater threat coming from the other side. No party, no ideology, and no movement should be immune from criticism at any point in time.

 

[DeadPresident]

So your not talking about SJW when you cry about identity politics?

All your fear mongering is directed at the tiny black nationalist movement?

Firstly, *you're - details matter. Secondly, your language use betrays how sold you are to the lie that liberalism and its associated groups are innately better than conservatives and their associated groups. My point about identity politics, and the SJW movement is a minor component of this, is that it emphasizes the identity of any agent in a scenario over the behavior of that agent. It propagates that you evaluate someone's actions through the lenses of the social groups they form a part of.

While that may seem innocuous to you now that's the premise that all human atrocities are built on. It's also painfully ironic that the liberals, the group who a few decades ago was trying to get people to be judged "By the content of their character, not by the color of their skin, etc" is now the same group who has a growing minority of malcontents who encourage judging everyone "By the identities they possess, never by the content of their character". You can dismiss this as much as you want, but the bottom line is that regressive liberals have identified their enemies (whiteness, males, Christians, zionists, etc) and they're creating false dichotomies and oppositions against those groups.

The following applies to both the right and the left; you can only deny people their dignity based on their identities for so long before violent conflict becomes inevitable. We're seeing it in the USA and we're seeing it across Europe too. Dismiss identity politics as much as you'd like, it's just going to grow and become more violent.

"Nuclear war is far more important than a few carjackings"

"You're trivializing carjackings"

No, I'm not.

Again, would you be so nonchalant if a bunch of rednecks came onto this board and said "Why's everyone getting their panties in a bunch, it's just a few blacks being killed by cops, what's the big deal…"?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Our piddly little discussion on the flaws of modern day liberalism on a superhero messageboard is somehow emboldening to the far right and endangering the future of America?

I think we can talk about identity politics run amok here without dooming the nation to oblivion.

I don't take any votes for granted.

Gore lost by less than a thousand votes.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Yeah, I'm not going to bestow temporary "sainthood" on the Left just because they perceive a greater threat coming from the other side. No party, no ideology, and no movement should be immune from criticism at any point in time.

I'd prefer to sling mud at my party when it's not close to the election.

Feel free to bash Trump if you're such a big fan of attacking your own candidate close to election day.

 

[Handsome Rob]

I'd prefer to sling mud at my party when it's not close to the election.

Feel free to bash Trump if you're such a big fan of attacking your own candidate close to election day.

I'm writing in a candidate . . . maybe voting for Gary Johnson (probably not).

I'm not voting for either Trump or Clinton. So, don't go assuming who my "own candidate" is.

I may spend my criticisms here almost exclusively on Clinton, but that's because:

1) I despise her, and
2) the Trump thread is almost nothing but 12 threads full of incessant bashing. Any criticism I could make has already been covered ad nauseum. The Clinton thread group is only 1/6 the size.

 

[moviedoors]

I don't take any votes for granted.

Gore lost by less than a thousand votes.

So you really do think me bringing up the regressive left a few days ago and creating this dialogue could sway an election and endanger the nation?

I didn't know I was wielding such power.

 

[moviedoors]

2) the Trump thread is almost nothing but 12 threads full of incessant bashing. Any criticism I could make has already been covered ad nauseum. The Clinton thread group is only 1/6 the size.

Along this line of thinking, I'm interested in discussing my own leaning's flaws partially because I'm essentially burnt out not just on the topic of Trump, but the American Right in general. I've known where I stand on things like that for a long time now. I stay informed, but banging the drum and engaging in endless debate about it is deeply boring to me now. Focusing on where the left and I differ actually challenges me, morally and ethically, if I can be so lofty. I actually have to think and be honest with myself.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Firstly, *you're - details matter. Secondly, your language use betrays how sold you are to the lie that liberalism and its associated groups are innately better than conservatives and their associated groups. My point about identity politics, and the SJW movement is a minor component of this, is that it emphasizes the identity of any agent in a scenario over the behavior of that agent. It propagates that you evaluate someone's actions through the lenses of the social groups they form a part of.

While that may seem innocuous to you now that's the premise that all human atrocities are built on. It's also painfully ironic that the liberals, the group who a few decades ago was trying to get people to be judged "By the content of their character, not by the color of their skin, etc" is now the same group who has a growing minority of malcontents who encourage judging everyone "By the identities they possess, never by the content of their character". You can dismiss this as much as you want, but the bottom line is that regressive liberals have identified their enemies (whiteness, males, Christians, zionists, etc) and they're creating false dichotomies and oppositions against those groups.

The following applies to both the right and the left; you can only deny people their dignity based on their identities for so long before violent conflict becomes inevitable. We're seeing it in the USA and we're seeing it across Europe too. Dismiss identity politics as much as you'd like, it's just going to grow and become more violent.

What's ironic is that your criticism of modern left wing activist could have easily been used against MLK.

In fact, the FBI targeted MLK because he was viewed as dangerous.

Most of the people who despise BLM and SJW would've been in opposition of MLK back in the day.

It's not like they would magically support equal rights because anti-war, socialist, MLK was the leader.

I think left wing groups should continue the tradition of non-violent resistance and protest. I also think they should focus on civil liberties, police accountability, and human rights since I believe those are less divisive and more realistic goals than getting everyone to love and accept all races and creeds.

Again, would you be so nonchalant if a bunch of rednecks came onto this board and said "Why's everyone getting their panties in a bunch, it's just a few blacks being killed by cops, what's the big deal…"?

A closer comparison would be if the rednecks said "a few lawyers and doctors being shot here and there doesn't compare to a nuclear winter or WW3".

 

[moviedoors]

A closer comparison would be if the rednecks said "a few lawyers and doctors being shot here and there doesn't compare to a nuclear winter or WW3".

The plight of black Americans at the hands of police officers is comparable to nuclear winter?

How about we just vilify ALL murder? Why does it all have to be a pissing contest?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'm writing in a candidate . . . maybe voting for Gary Johnson (probably not).

I'm not voting for either Trump or Clinton. So, don't go assuming who my "own candidate" is.

I may spend my criticisms here almost exclusively on Clinton, but that's because:

1) I despise her, and
2) the Trump thread is almost nothing but 12 threads full of incessant bashing. Any criticism I could make has already been covered ad nauseum. The Clinton thread group is only 1/6 the size.

So basically you don't care who wins yet you criticize me for caring enough to not attack my own candidate.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

So you really do think me bringing up the regressive left a few days ago and creating this dialogue could sway an election and endanger the nation?

I didn't know I was wielding such power.

Sure, convincing a few Bush/Nader supporters or non-voters to change their mind wouldn't have swayed the 2000 election. But if a couple hundred people swayed that number of people the Iraq War and great recession might not have happened.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The plight of black Americans at the hands of police officers is comparable to nuclear winter?

How about we just vilify ALL murder? Why does it all have to be a pissing contest?

No, a couple of trigger happy cops does not compare to a nuclear winter.

The victims could be black, white or green and it still wouldn't compare.

A few people getting murdered is really, really terrible but it doesn't compare to a nuclear winter.

At this point you guys are trivializing a nuclear holocaust by saying a few cops dying is in the same category.

 

[moviedoors]

Sure, convincing a few Bush/Nader supporters or non-voters to change their mind wouldn't have swayed the 2000 election. But if a couple hundred people swayed that number of people the Iraq War and great recession might not have happened.

Woulda coulda shoulda. I stand firmly behind honest, self reflective discourse. Placing your ideals above critique is a huge red flag.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

What I find interesting is that when the notion that a predominantly white country wants to stay predominantly white is brought up it's discussed as some kind of white supremacist conspiracy theory. It only seems to have racist connotations when we're talking about the USA and their white population.


Is this because most people discussing the topic here are from the USA or is there some kind of bias when people discuss "white" culture in particular? I think people need to start realizing every dominant group in any part of the world tries to protect its own dominance in a society. That's not some kind of racist conspiracy, it's a biological truth of humans as a species.

.

Whites in America seeing the end of white dominance as an issue isn't racist the same way Arabs theoretically seeing the end of Arab dominance in any number of ME countries wouldn't be racist. This isn't about race, it's about hegemony.

Nothing biological, no, but sociologically and anthropologically it makes complete sense. People love to make this some kind of evil racial conspiracy, it's far simpler than that. Humans, like every other animal, are comfortable around their own kind, it's why homogeneous societies are happier in general and exhibit less conflict.

All we have is a dominant "type" in a specific environment that wants to remain the dominant type.

As I posted in my first reply, what makes it racist is that the demographic shift is being framed as white genocide.

The most popular theme among white nationalists on Twitter was the concept of “white genocide,” the notion that the “white race” is directly endangered by the increasing diversity of society. Social media activists tweeted hundreds of times per day using repetitive hashtags and slogans associated with this trope.

https://cchs.gwu.edu/sites/cchs.gwu.edu/files/downloads/Nazis v. ISIS Final_0.pdf

None of this went unnoticed among ardent racists, many of whom believe there is a coordinated effort to eventually eliminate the “white race.”

Trump is “giving us the old wink-wink,” wrote Andrew Anglin, editor of a white supremacist website called The Daily Stormer, after Trump retweeted two other “white genocide” theorists within a single minute. “Whereas the odd White genocide tweet could be a random occurrence, it isn’t statistically possible that two of them back to back could be a random occurrence. It could only be deliberate…Today in America the air is cold and it tastes like victory.”

http://fortune.com/donald-trump-white-supremacist-genocide/

A spokeswoman for the West Virginia Attorney General’s office is out of a job this morning after she was seen spewing well-known white supremacist phrases in a shocking video titled “THE ‘Stop White Genocide’ Video.”

“Everybody says the final solution to this race problem is for every white country, and only white countries, to assimilate, i.e., intermarry with all those non-whites,” Bowe says in the video. Soon after, an unidentified woman chimes in and asserts that this isn’t about a race problem, but rather finding the “final solution” to the “Black problem.”

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news/2...ho-recited-white-supremacist-slogans-in-video

 

[Donner]

It's being framed as white genocide from racists on Twitter who are a far cry from the majority of Americans. You can't say that because people like the members of the KKK exist that it means America is inherently racist.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

It's being framed as white genocide from racists on Twitter who are a far cry from the majority of Americans. You can't say that because people like the members of the KKK exist that it means America is inherently racist.

Why is White nationalism only a threat when and if the majority of America embraces it? Do you know how many murders are linked to the Klan?