Discussion: Racism - Part 1

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Yeah that's not the way the world works. You have a split second to act. They aren't wearing shirts that say guilty.
These are not split second decisions. Even if they were, they be horrible. But the cops make decisions. If they are worried about their lives, why not treat it like they would a hostage situation, and keep distance lowering the potential danger? Use their cars as shields? How about gather some information so you do not go in blind? How about non-lethal weapons?

In the Charlotte situation the cops were clearly looking for a confrontation. They escalated it, same with the situation in Tulsa. Then they kill someone, it become the fault of the person they shot. Instead of taking an extra half and hour and not bring the situation to a boiling point, one they themselves set off, they have to rush it for some reason.
 
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Some of the comments on here are blowing my mind. Coming from people that have not walked one second in the shoes of a police officer.

I do not like what I am seeing happening in our streets today, whether it is the mishandling of situations by "some" officers, or the multiple shootings happening everywhere, especially Chicago. But to even think I could come anywhere near understanding what police officers go through when walking into unknown circumstances keeps my mouth shut on that particular subject.

More programs like these should be in schools...


Police officers are not suppose to be like civilians in these situations. Placing a person who isn't a police officer in the position of a police officer is avoiding the issue. It isn't their job to police society.

Police are not enlisted. They choose the profession. Keeping a calm, cool head in these situations is their jobs. Protecting the citizens, including those they are investigating, is their jobs. If they are unfit to be police officers, they shouldn't be police officers. It doesn't change the standard because the cops aren't fit to do their jobs. Perhaps they shouldn't have got pass the screening process. I think there are too many cops who should never get to be cops, but once they are on the force that is not an excuse.

A major problem I have with this is it excuses the cops for being jumpy and nervous as a natural state, which is exactly the opposite of what they are suppose to be. It excuses them escalating situations because of this. It excuses them for "imaging" a weapon. "It is a stressful job" gives them almost complete license to do as they see fit, which includes killing people who do not pose them a legitimate threat. As long as they can say the perceived a threat, they can shoot anyone theoretically. And when that is okay, they can rationalize any shooting as justified.

This line of thought avoids obvious major issues in these situations. Namely the training and insular nature of the police force. The new mantra is that police officers number one job is to get home safe. This reinforce that idea that their lives matter more then civilians, to take zero perceived risk. And how black males by their very nature are higher perceived risk to the officer's lives. This also leads to other cops avoiding reporting on their fellow officers. As we see when they do that, the good cop who did his job is ostracized. Defending these incident, making excuses, not testifying, victim blaming, and straight up lying to defend other cops. This makes the police as a whole responsible. This is an issue with the entire police structure, but we aren't allowed to question this on any level because it is "disrespectful" to the cops. As if we need to blindly trust them because their jobs are stressful.

And then there is smearing the victims to justify these killings. Look at how victims are smeared with irrelevant information. In both the Tulsa and Charlotte situations they can't wait to say the victims have past convictions. Something the officers themselves were not aware of at the time. So what relevance is there? How does that make their non-pointing of a weapon at the police anymore dangerous?

Now they say the man in Charlotte had a gun, but he had an ankle holster, was not walking towards the cop, and was not lifting his hands in the air to point a gun at anyone when they shot him. His wife is there telling them he had a brain injury, and yet they continue to escalate the situation.

This isn't seeking the truth, or justice, it is about giving the police the best chance to not be held responsible for their actions.
 
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I stand by my post....we are all human...hire robots then.
 
I stand by my post....we are all human...hire robots then.
Oh, I am all for the era of Robocop, but that isn't here yet.

If you use that line of thought, how do you ever hold an officer responsible for their actions? Or simply in this case, how do you ever fix the issues with the police as a whole if you simply excuse all their actions outside of blatant executions? And even then, they are apparently allowed to choke people to death.

It is like you just wiped every problem with simply, "they are human". So are the people they are killing and yet their seems more concern for the people in authority who walk away from these situations. It also avoids the actions of the police after, when they are clearly trying to justify nearly all these situations or even cover them up. They fight the release of footage. They don't want the public to see what they do.
 
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Oh, I am all for the era of Robocop, but that isn't here yet.

If you use that line of thought, how do you ever hold an officer responsible for their actions? Or simply in this case, how do you ever fix the issues with the police as a whole if you simply excuse all their actions outside of blatant executions? And even then, they are apparently allowed to choke people to death.

It is like you just wiped every problem with simply, "they are human". So are the people they are killing and yet the concern seems more for the people in authority who walk away from these situations. It also avoids the actions of the police after, when they are clearly trying to justify nearly all these situations or even cover them up. They fight the release of footage.
I never said they should not be held accountable....I am just saying every situation is different, and for people who have never been in any of these situations to sit here and judge as a whole is stupid.
 
I never said they should not be held accountable....I am just saying every situation is different, and for people who have never been in any of these situations to sit here and judge as a whole is stupid.
This is pretty much the reasoning they give for not releasing footage. The public can't understand. And I completely disagree.

If civilians are not allowed to sit in judgment, how will any officer ever going be held accountable? Cops have a vested interest in not holding each other responsible. Same for DAs who work with the police. The cops don't see a problem, or at the very least don't want the public to perceive a problem, so if the citizens of the country don't sit in judgment and ask for reform, who will?

This is not dissimilar to the problem with the military and sexual assault, where the fact that they have military court allows them to almost avoid that horrid epidemic in the military. Police cannot be the ones solely responsible for judging their actions.
 
and when police unions are threatening to GO TO COURT because cities want body cameras

what kind of message does that send?
 
Yeah that's not the way the world works. You have a split second to act. They aren't wearing shirts that say guilty.
I never said they should not be held accountable....I am just saying every situation is different, and for people who have never been in any of these situations to sit here and judge as a whole is stupid.
Absolutely agree.
 
Well based on the black community's constant accusation of poor treatment from the police maybe there's some room for improvement from the law enforcement side.

Unless the assumption is that police don't need any reforms and any complaints about the police are delusional.
Ok? If reasonably speaking that particular police academy training isn't there, it most certainly should be.

This school program was conducted in Chicago of all places. So, "poor treatment" would just as easily mean the cops aren't doing enough or incapable of doing enough to curve that city's exorbitant crime wave. If you're cynical enough or IF the following is the cold hard truth, Chicago cops are simply letting this happen and that too would be "poor treatment".

Any who...
As it stands, the two recent cases are as follows (atm):
-the violent riot happened around a non-compliant illegally armed victim who the witness yelled time and time again to not do what he could do
-the peaceful protest happened around a compliant unarmed victim who was of no imminent threat and couldn't get on the ground because he's partially deaf

There's a clear difference between how those cops conducted themselves and we already know which force is facing more legal flack.
 
This is pretty much the reasoning they give for not releasing footage. The public can't understand. And I completely disagree.

If civilians are not allowed to sit in judgment, how will any officer ever going be held accountable? Cops have a vested interest in not holding each other responsible. Same for DAs who work with the police. The cops don't see a problem, or at the very least don't want the public to perceive a problem, so if the citizens of the country don't sit in judgment and ask for reform, who will?

This is not dissimilar to the problem with the military and sexual assault, where the fact that they have military court allows them to almost avoid that horrid epidemic in the military. Police cannot be the ones solely responsible for judging their actions.

No system is perfect (ours can certainly be improved, that is for sure), but again painting with such a wide brush just ends up a lot of paper with paint on it, but no picture of the truth.
 
Ok? If reasonably speaking that particular police academy training isn't there, it most certainly should be.

This school program was conducted in Chicago of all places. So, "poor treatment" would just as easily mean the cops aren't doing enough or incapable of doing enough to curve that city's exorbitant crime wave. If you're cynical enough or IF the following is the cold hard truth, Chicago cops are simply letting this happen and that too would be "poor treatment".

The thing is different police departments have different relationships with the black community. So how the police conduct themselves can make a huge difference.

Simply telling black teens "you guys are being unreasonable" and "you need to empathize with the police" via role play only goes so far.
 
CNN’s Burnett Shares That Most Arrested NC Protesters Were From Out of State

This seems to be the pattern in most cases where there's been rioting and looting. Those who live in the communities tend to care about their area and don't destroy things while the outsiders are the ones who come in and ramp up the violence because they don't really care one way or another about what happens afterwards.
That wasn't true, at all. The police were just estimating, but it ended up that around 79% of the people arrested were local.

A spokesman for Charlotte’s Fraternal Order of Police told CNN that 70 percent of the protesters arrested in Charlotte this week were from out-of-state. But he acknowledged Friday that his statement was nothing more than speculation.
It was also inaccurate, according to a Charlotte Observer review of police reports.
[Those arrested during protest: Most local, most without criminal records]


Of the 43 people arrested late Wednesday night and early Thursday morning, 34 – or 79 percent – live in Charlotte, the Observer found. Most of the others live elsewhere in North Carolina, including Albemarle, Gastonia and Greensboro. Three others were arrested Thursday night; of those, two were from Charlotte and the third had not been identified by midafternoon Friday.
“I didn’t quote facts,” Todd Walther, spokesman for the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Fraternal Order of Police told the Observer on Friday. “It’s speculation. That’s all it was.”
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article103751931.html
 
Eh. F*** Mike Dicka

kbrfh3.jpg

Is there a cartoon of the rioters and looters?
 
Cops are human and they will make mistakes but they are in a profession of their own choosing that demands a particular type of behavior, mind set and temperament.

Self discipline and keeping a cool head under pressure are paramount necessities of the job.

If your not equipped to do the job then don't do it.

As DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs said better screening, recruitment and training would greatly improve things greatly.
 
The thing is different police departments have different relationships with the black community. So how the police conduct themselves can make a huge difference.

Simply telling black teens "you guys are being unreasonable" and "you need to empathize with the police" via role play only goes so far.

No one has said its the end all, nor did they even go at it in that manner....it is simply opening a door, it was not intended to solve all of the problems, but you have to start somewhere, and painting black youth one way for all, or police officers one way for all gets you know where.

BUT, these problems will not be solved by only one side taking steps forward. BOTH SIDES have faults, and both need to see the faults, and begin taking steps to solve them. I'm not going to judge either side, I haven't walked in the shoes of either. I do however know that the Harris County officer that lives above me has built a great relationship with young and old in my apartment community. He is respected, and the kids love him, that is where it all begins, and it was something that came from both the officer and the civillians. Pointing fingers and then yelling at each other to get the fingers out of the face is not getting us anywhere. It's ridiculous all the way around....
 
the institution that as ALL the power is abusing it

and until the "good cops" start standing with the people and not on the sidelines, then they are ALL BAD IMO

stop paid leave when MURDER happens

take civil lawsuits out of police pensions

clean out longtime leadership who clearly teach the US vs THEM mentality

right now, considering everything that has happened

if you are wearing a badge, you WANT ME SUBSERVIENT OR DEAD until proven otherwise
 
No, they aren't

but my Puerto Rican stepfather (who was a cop for 7 years) had little hesitation about dropping the N word and handcuffing me to my bed because "animals deserve to be locked up"
 
I'll put it this way, I'd rather hesitate to kill someone who ends up killing me than be trigger happy in general and kill someone who wasn't a real cop killer.



Well think about the most common cop defense. Do they ever go with "he resisted" or "he didn't comply"?

They don't because they would get life in prison.

The most common defense is "he had a weapon and was trying to kill me" and that's one of the only justification to kill someone.



Cop killers are very rare.

Most of these police shooting videos show cops killing people who didn't need to killed or shot.

They weren't trying to be cop killers.

I understand your point, that the people who we have seen being shot and killed in recent footage, while they were defying orders from police officers(possibly Castile was attempting to comply. I wish we had dash cam video), they were not directly threatening or attempting to harm (except for Korryn Gaines) the officers.

Where we differ is that if I try to put myself in the position of the officers, I can see how they feel, "If they're not complying now, what are they about to do next?" Then they see a sudden movement or it looks like the suspect is reaching for something and they fear for their lives so they draw their weapon and fire.

It's so tragic and unfortunate, I just wish someone would give me a good reason as to why they're not complying with officers so they can either go home or serve some jail time but live.
 
I understand your point, that the people who we have seen being shot and killed in recent footage, while they were defying orders from police officers(possibly Castile was attempting to comply. I wish we had dash cam video), they were not directly threatening or attempting to harm (except for Korryn Gaines) the officers.

Where we differ is that if I try to put myself in the position of the officers, I can see how they feel, "If they're not complying now, what are they about to do next?" Then they see a sudden movement or it looks like the suspect is reaching for something and they fear for their lives so they draw their weapon and fire.

It's so tragic and unfortunate, I just wish someone would give me a good reason as to why they're not complying with officers so they can either go home or serve some jail time but live.

put yourself in the position of oppressors lest you anger them

dashcam video of St Louis Police MURDERING and PLANTING a weapon on a man in 2011 was just leaked to the press

a judge refused to release it years ago for BS reasons

STOP making excuses for liars and murderers
 
A police officer in Georgia shot herself with HER OWN WEAPON, blamed an imaginary black man for it, thus sending the police department on a time wasting man hunt, and is finally being arrested and charged
 
the institution that as ALL the power is abusing it

and until the "good cops" start standing with the people and not on the sidelines, then they are ALL BAD IMO

stop paid leave when MURDER happens

take civil lawsuits out of police pensions

clean out longtime leadership who clearly teach the US vs THEM mentality

right now, considering everything that has happened

if you are wearing a badge, you WANT ME SUBSERVIENT OR DEAD until proven otherwise

That is ridiculous.
 
Terence Crutcher, Walter Scott, Erik Garner, Sandra Bland and countless others would disagree

o wait, they can't

they were murdered by police
 
Yes of course, ALL police somehow murdered them :whatever: Come on...you are the one with the US vs THEM mentality.
 
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