Discussion: Racism - Part 1

[TheCommissioner]

Im the one with the "I shouldn't break out into a cold sweat every time I see a police car" mentality

and yes, when there is a culture of violence and dominance, where the "good cops" are harassed, and sometimes fired for speaking up against misconduct

the system is utterly broken and the badge suckers out there giving out hugs and back pats aren't helping matters any

 

[RockSP]

This is an extremely ignorant statement that offers absolutely nothing constructive to the debate.

News flash. Not all cops are white.

Where in his quote was race mentioned?

 

[Travesty]

Where in his quote was race mentioned?

We're in the racism thread. So if he's saying cops want him "subservient or dead", it's easy to deduce what he means....in the racism thread.

 

[DeadPresident]

No, they aren't

but my Puerto Rican stepfather (who was a cop for 7 years) had little hesitation about dropping the N word and handcuffing me to my bed because "animals deserve to be locked up"

No offense, but you seem to be projecting a lot of your personal history onto the (admittedly significant) current police conduct problem in the USA. I'm sorry those things happened to you, but it isn't helpful to the discussion surrounding this topic to blow events out of proportion.

Another thing that bears repeating, but the amount of prevalence a topic has in the media doesn't represent it's prevalence in a population. If 80% of the news stories people see a day are about police brutality a fair number of folks seem to think that 80% of all police interactions end in police brutality. This is a problem, but we need to dial back how extreme the perception is vs what the reality is.

 

[RockSP]

We're in the racism thread. So if he's saying cops want him "subservient or dead", it's easy to deduce what he means....in the racism thread.

Corrupt power tripping cops come in every race and gender.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

Which is what Schlosser85 said.

 

[RockSP]

To someone who never said otherwise.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The major problem isn't "racist white cops" on the streets. It is how police departments have made black males a higher threat level in their officers minds. They have instilled this fear in all their officers, whether they are white, black, Hispanic, Asian, etc.

 

[hellified]

There's always been a contentious relationship between LE and minorities but especially the black community...it seems to mainly boil down to cops reacting to any pushback on their authority to any degree and people reacting to perceived disrespect to themselves. For all the talk of de-escalating training when those two mindsets come into conflict de-escalation is not possible. Not all cops behave this way and not all situations are cut and dry but in many cases of conflict, how the cop approaches a situation determines the tone and tenor of how that situation will go.

And if they approach the situation in a authoritative manner that's off putting chances are things are going to go sideways from there. I posted earlier that you can draw a direct line from police brutality and cops who abuse their authority today right back to the LE of the 1800s post slavery. LE has ALWAYS been used as a force to keep the black community under thumb and LE agents have always had wide discretion in how they uphold the law as long as they upheld the law be it codified or defacto.

From Black Codes to Pig Laws to Jim Crow Laws to the War on Drugs you are looking at codified, systemic racism and defacto racism that existed from AFTER slavery to well into the 21st century...from 1865 to today and thru out all of that police have had discretion either by law or defacto to treat people in general and blacks in particular in almost any manner they see fit as long as the law is executed.

Peep this:

Ferguson Police Routinely Violate Rights of Blacks, Justice Dept. Finds

The criminal justice system in Ferguson works differently for blacks and whites.

* A black motorist who is pulled over is twice as likely to be searched as a white motorist, even though searches of white drivers are more likely to turn up drugs or other contraband, the report found.

* Minor, largely discretionary offenses such as disturbing the peace and jaywalking were brought almost exclusively against blacks. When whites were charged with these crimes, they were 68 percent more likely to have their cases dismissed, the Justice Department found.

* It describes a city where the police used force almost exclusively on blacks and regularly stopped people without probable cause.

* Racial bias is so ingrained, the report said, that Ferguson officials circulated racist jokes on their government email accounts.

THAT'S IN THIS CENTURY NOT 1860 OR 1955...2016 How long has that been going on?? 10 years, 20 years...a generation..multiple generations? Does anyone really believe that Ferguson is a one off anomaly in this country and there aren't other cities that do similar if not the same thing? With all that animosity and contention built up and built INTO the relationship between minorities and cops, especially blacks is there any wonder why or how things can escalate from a routine stop to some kind of shooting??

 

[TheCommissioner]

The major problem isn't "racist white cops" on the streets. It is how police departments have made black males a higher threat level in their officers minds. They have instilled this fear in all their officers, whether they are white, black, Hispanic, Asian, etc.

Pretty much

 

[giveyourself12%]

The major problem isn't "racist white cops" on the streets. It is how police departments have made black males a higher threat level in their officers minds. They have instilled this fear in all their officers, whether they are white, black, Hispanic, Asian, etc.

I used to like a show called "Everybody Hates Chris" which was a semi-autobiographical comedic portrayal of the comedian Chris Rock's childhood. It was a good show.

There was one episode where he was being picked on by a bully who was bigger and stronger than him, and they had his inner monologue saying something like, "I knew I couldn't out fight him, so I decided to out black him."

I remember thinking for a second before they explained it, "How do you out-whatever-race someone?"

The Chris character then got in the bully's face and said stuff like, "I'll break your face, I'll hit you so hard your mama will feel it, I'll mess you up"

I think the bully beat him up anyway but that stuck with me all these years. I remember thinking, "So they're saying that black=violent/aggressive. That's not good." I don't remember anybody making a big deal about it at the time.

Your post reminded me of that episode. It's uncomfortable to talk about but we need to have the duscussion about why this is if it's playing a part in getting people unnecessarily killed.

 

[RockSP]

I used to like a show called "Everybody Hates Chris" which was a semi-autobiographical comedic portrayal of the comedian Chris Rock's childhood. It was a good show.

There was one episode where he was being picked on by a bully who was bigger and stronger than him, and they had his inner monologue saying something like, "I knew I couldn't out fight him, so I decided to out black him."

I remember thinking for a second before they explained it, "How do you out-whatever-race someone?"

The Chris character then got in the bully's face and said stuff like, "I'll break your face, I'll hit you so hard your mama will feel it, I'll mess you up"

I think the bully beat him up anyway but that stuck with me all these years. I remember thinking, "So they're saying that black=violent/aggressive. That's not good." I don't remember anybody making a big deal about it at the time.

Your post reminded me of that episode. It's uncomfortable to talk about but we need to have the duscussion about why this is if it's playing a part in getting people unnecessarily killed.

You seem to have missed the point of that scene. Chris knew that is how black people are perceived by many, and was hoping use that to bluff his way out of having to deal with the bully.

 

[hellified]

I used to like a show called "Everybody Hates Chris" which was a semi-autobiographical comedic portrayal of the comedian Chris Rock's childhood. It was a good show.

There was one episode where he was being picked on by a bully who was bigger and stronger than him, and they had his inner monologue saying something like, "I knew I couldn't out fight him, so I decided to out black him."

I remember thinking for a second before they explained it, "How do you out-whatever-race someone?"

The Chris character then got in the bully's face and said stuff like, "I'll break your face, I'll hit you so hard your mama will feel it, I'll mess you up"

I think the bully beat him up anyway but that stuck with me all these years. I remember thinking, "So they're saying that black=violent/aggressive. That's not good." I don't remember anybody making a big deal about it at the time.

Your post reminded me of that episode. It's uncomfortable to talk about but we need to have the discussion about why this is if it's playing a part in getting people unnecessarily killed.

we can't because many people don't want to believe that the events of the past have an effect on the present or future..

I mentioned twice how history plays a role in how cops today deal with and encounter blacks and no one wants to touch it.

[YT]1z_A1ediUWY[/YT]

This guy explains how the crime stat narrative has been used since the 1890s!

Literally everything we're seeing today in terms of how blacks are percieved as a group and dealt with is pretty much a repeat of things from the 50s which was a repeat of things from that turn of last century.

Until people consider that honestly we can't have a discussion on it because defensiveness and deflection will derail it.

 

[TheCommissioner]

exactly

and people don't want to look in the mirror and admit they've been taught this bias for a long time

its a matter of self reflection that many don't want to deal with

 

[TheCommissioner]

Data driven breakdown of police bias

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/07/data-police-racial-bias

 

[hellified]

Data driven breakdown of police bias

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/07/data-police-racial-bias

from that site:

"Officers expect and demand compliance even when they lack legal authority,” the report’s authors wrote. “They are inclined to interpret the exercise of free-speech rights as unlawful disobedience, innocent movements as physical threats, indications of mental or physical illness as belligerence.”

The researchers also found significant differences in the way officers spoke to African Americans: “Using only the words an officer uses during a traffic stop, we can predict whether that [officer] is talking to a black person or a white person” with 66 percent accuracy.

this goes back to my earlier post:

There's always been a contentious relationship between LE and minorities but especially the black community...it seems to mainly boil down to cops reacting to any pushback on their authority to any degree and people reacting to perceived disrespect to themselves. For all the talk of de-escalating training when those two mindsets come into conflict de-escalation is not possible. Not all cops behave this way and not all situations are cut and dry but in many cases of conflict, how the cop approaches a situation determines the tone and tenor of how that situation will go.

And if they approach the situation in a authoritative manner that's off putting chances are things are going to go sideways from there. I posted earlier that you can draw a direct line from police brutality and cops who abuse their authority today right back to the LE of the 1800s post slavery. LE has ALWAYS been used as a force to keep the black community under thumb and LE agents have always had wide discretion in how they uphold the law as long as they upheld the law be it codified or defacto.

From Black Codes to Pig Laws to Jim Crow Laws to the War on Drugs you are looking at codified, systemic racism and defacto racism that existed from AFTER slavery to well into the 21st century...from 1865 to today and thru out all of that police have had discretion either by law or defacto to treat people in general and blacks in particular in almost any manner they see fit as long as the law is executed.

Peep this:

Ferguson Police Routinely Violate Rights of Blacks, Justice Dept. Finds

The criminal justice system in Ferguson works differently for blacks and whites.

* A black motorist who is pulled over is twice as likely to be searched as a white motorist, even though searches of white drivers are more likely to turn up drugs or other contraband, the report found.

* Minor, largely discretionary offenses such as disturbing the peace and jaywalking were brought almost exclusively against blacks. When whites were charged with these crimes, they were 68 percent more likely to have their cases dismissed, the Justice Department found.

* It describes a city where the police used force almost exclusively on blacks and regularly stopped people without probable cause.

* Racial bias is so ingrained, the report said, that Ferguson officials circulated racist jokes on their government email accounts.

THAT'S IN THIS CENTURY NOT 1860 OR 1955...2016 How long has that been going on?? 10 years, 20 years...a generation..multiple generations? Does anyone really believe that Ferguson is a one off anomaly in this country and there aren't other cities that do similar if not the same thing? With all that animosity and contention built up and built INTO the relationship between minorities and cops, especially blacks is there any wonder why or how things can escalate from a routine stop to some kind of shooting??

 

[Docker2.0]

from that site:

"Officers expect and demand compliance even when they lack legal authority,” the report’s authors wrote. “They are inclined to interpret the exercise of free-speech rights as unlawful disobedience, innocent movements as physical threats, indications of mental or physical illness as belligerence.”

The researchers also found significant differences in the way officers spoke to African Americans: “Using only the words an officer uses during a traffic stop, we can predict whether that [officer] is talking to a black person or a white person” with 66 percent accuracy.

this goes back to my earlier post:

If it doesn't affect certain people, then they don't care. Sorry but it kills me when people say do this and that when they've never walked in the shoes of a minority. It's easy to say all cops ain't bad or basically ignore it when you've been burned numerous times. I haven't really experienced to many bad cop experiences but I'd be foolish to say dismiss this like it doesn't exist. All cops ain't bad but that freaking blue shield is! If you know a cop is bad, why cover for him with the blue shield? And for those saying that some minorities are just complaining, read this next report and tell me they are wrong to feel this way.

https://web.archive.org/web/2015120...ars-district-attorney-doug-valeska-complicit/

 

[E.NormusJohnson]

if you are wearing a badge, you WANT ME SUBSERVIENT OR DEAD until proven otherwise

Absolutely the most ridiculous statement I've read in this entire thread. You're letting your emotions get the best of you. Not the best way to participate in a civil discourse with others.

 

[terry78]

Got pulled over today for supposedly going 50 in a 35 up an inclined bridge and was sure dude was gonna bust out a ticket but shockingly only gave a warning. Wonders never cease.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Absolutely the most ridiculous statement I've read in this entire thread. You're letting your emotions get the best of you. Not the best way to participate in a civil discourse with others.

Well, it's not really a civil discourse if your side is being shot.

I'm white and the cops are scaring me.

I've lived in third world countries where I was less worried about the police there than here in America.

And yes, yes, I know. Most cops are good, etcetera. But you can only see so many videos of cops shooting people before you start to generalize.

 

[giveyourself12%]

we can't because many people don't want to believe that the events of the past have an effect on the present or future..

I mentioned twice how history plays a role in how cops today deal with and encounter blacks and no one wants to touch it.

[YT]1z_A1ediUWY[/YT]

This guy explains how the crime stat narrative has been used since the 1890s!

Literally everything we're seeing today in terms of how blacks are percieved as a group and dealt with is pretty much a repeat of things from the 50s which was a repeat of things from that turn of last century.

Until people consider that honestly we can't have a discussion on it because defensiveness and deflection will derail it.

Thank you for the post and the video. I'll be getting his book.

The notion that black culture is inherently violent and dangerous being a narrative pushed upon society for decades upon decades that all races have pretty much accepted as truth, is as fascinating as it is tragic.

I'm not being flippant btw, I am fascinated at the possibility of this narrative existing for so long and hardly anyone of any race saying, "Let's look at this and attempt to debunk it".

 

[hellified]

[YT]FLTpLmgRu4w[/YT]

[YT]wsd2HJKAi9U[/YT]

“During the course of the next several minutes, the Deputies on scene conspired to concoct a citable offense against Mr. Sheppard. These law enforcement officials attempted to justify Deputy Plunkett’s actions, ex post facto. Most critically, Deputy Hanson and Deputy Rodriguez drafted a citation that was ultimately signed by Deputy Plunkett. Neither Deputy Hanson nor Deputy Ramirez was willing to personally sign the citation, after engaging in a lengthy discussion concerning the contents of said citation. As she was attempting to creatively fashion charges to be brought against Mr. Sheppard within the aforementioned citation, Deputy Hanson stated, ‘please, just let me taser him!’”

None of this would be known today if Mr. Sheppard had not been a P.I. on a surveillance job. For whatever reason, once the deputies learned that he was a legitimate private investigator in the middle of a legal investigation—they never thought that he might have devices recording audio or video.

Mr. Sheppard was not arrested. He was given one ticket for tinted windows and no license plate. His Tahoe did have a temporary registration in the windshield and paper license plates on the back of the vehicle as required by law at the time of the incident.

On April 20, 2015, Mr. Sheppard filed a civil lawsuit in federal court for violation of his constitutional rights, assault, battery, false imprisonment, intentional infliction of emotional distress and various other charges.

The trial took place last week in Los Angeles September 13 through September 15 before the Honorable S. James Otero. After hearing the evidence and viewing a small portion of the video evidence provided by Mr. Sheppard, a jury of 8 persons found in favor of the sheriff’s department.

Mr. Sheppard plans to appeal the verdict.

It is unknown whether any of the Crescenta Valley Station deputies on scene faced disciplinary action.

 

[giveyourself12%]

[YT]FLTpLmgRu4w[/YT]

[YT]wsd2HJKAi9U[/YT]

“During the course of the next several minutes, the Deputies on scene conspired to concoct a citable offense against Mr. Sheppard. These law enforcement officials attempted to justify Deputy Plunkett’s actions, ex post facto. Most critically, Deputy Hanson and Deputy Rodriguez drafted a citation that was ultimately signed by Deputy Plunkett. Neither Deputy Hanson nor Deputy Ramirez was willing to personally sign the citation, after engaging in a lengthy discussion concerning the contents of said citation. As she was attempting to creatively fashion charges to be brought against Mr. Sheppard within the aforementioned citation, Deputy Hanson stated, ‘please, just let me taser him!’”

None of this would be known today if Mr. Sheppard had not been a P.I. on a surveillance job. For whatever reason, once the deputies learned that he was a legitimate private investigator in the middle of a legal investigation—they never thought that he might have devices recording audio or video.

Mr. Sheppard was not arrested. He was given one ticket for tinted windows and no license plate. His Tahoe did have a temporary registration in the windshield and paper license plates on the back of the vehicle as required by law at the time of the incident.

On April 20, 2015, Mr. Sheppard filed a civil lawsuit in federal court for violation of his constitutional rights, assault, battery, false imprisonment, intentional infliction of emotional distress and various other charges.

The trial took place last week in Los Angeles September 13 through September 15 before the Honorable S. James Otero. After hearing the evidence and viewing a small portion of the video evidence provided by Mr. Sheppard, a jury of 8 persons found in favor of the sheriff’s department.

Mr. Sheppard plans to appeal the verdict.

It is unknown whether any of the Crescenta Valley Station deputies on scene faced disciplinary action.

That's despicable. I sincerely hope he wins the appeal and that the crooked deputies are fired and brought up on charges.

 

[E.NormusJohnson]

Well, it's not really a civil discourse if your side is being shot.

I'm white and the cops are scaring me.

I've lived in third world countries where I was less worried about the police there than here in America.

And yes, yes, I know. Most cops are good, etcetera. But you can only see so many videos of cops shooting people before you start to generalize.

Your side? What are you trying to imply with that? I'm not on anyone's "side". But, I've seen quite a few alarming anti law and order comments that worry me more than the 700 or so police fatal shootings that have occured so far in '16... of which black americans accounted for 24% of that total according to the Wash. Post.

Too many people who don't have firsthand accounts of police encounters are weighing in on a 100% media driven narrative.

 

[chamber-music]

A police officer in Georgia shot herself with HER OWN WEAPON, blamed an imaginary black man for it, thus sending the police department on a time wasting man hunt, and is finally being arrested and charged

That is messed up but not surprising sadly.