Discussion: Racism - Part 3

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Thread Manager, Jul 3, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. B

    B [insert witty comment]

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    7,954
    Likes Received:
    20
    I go in now & again. I've literally never seen anybody sitting with a phone or laptop without a cup or plate next to them.. so either presumably they've bought something or have just chose to sit at a dirty table.
     
    #726
  2. DeadPresident

    DeadPresident Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2011
    Messages:
    12,474
    Likes Received:
    30
    I did read the article, and it didn't show the actual security footage. All it had was the excerpts about the woman's comments, which doesn't make it look like the husband is the racist in this equation, it makes it look like she is.

    Not to mention 'these people' (while likely implying race, I admit) could very well have been meant as 'burglars' or 'robbers', not necessarily 'black people'. Still seems like pretty weak evidence to go off to call the man a categorical racist. If they wanted people to be able to make their own minds up instead of leading with the highly slanted agenda they'd have released the footage.

    Either way, these are two separate things. Whether either of them is a racist or not is an academic discussion at this point since it's difficult to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, the main point should be that the old geezer should be charged with something since firing a weapon with such little justification has to be criminal negligence/recklessness at the very least, if not attempted murder and a few other things thrown in.
     
    #727
  3. TheCommissioner

    TheCommissioner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2015
    Messages:
    3,434
    Likes Received:
    0
    but racism is the root of the problem here

    she saw a black person at her door, presumed he was breaking in, and her racist ass husband felt the need to grab a weapon and fire

    arrest them both with reckless endangerment, charge him with attempted murder and unlwaful discharge of a weapon - toss him in jail till he dies
     
    #728
  4. DeadPresident

    DeadPresident Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2011
    Messages:
    12,474
    Likes Received:
    30
    Lol - you're like a Dave Chapelle skit, man. You and Rock would make really terrible lawyers, you clearly don't seem to understand the concept of evidence or something as basic as 'proof'. I hope you guys aren't on the receiving end of someone else jumping to conclusions without evidence, because then cluster****s like this scenario pop off. Is it possible/likely race played a role? Yeah, it's likely. Is the old man a dyed in the wool racist? That's impossible to ascertain, and throwing the term around all the time diminishes what it means.

    If anything the majority of the blame should be on the lady's overreaction, I completely understand her being skeptical but since the kid was likely just at the door and not making a racket or trying to force entry I don't understand why she started behaving like it was a burglary right off the bat.

    Her husband (racist or not) was clearly going off her hysterical reaction when he got the gun - and then his mistake was jumping to conclusions and firing it off like a reckless fool. Either way, I can reasonably see attempted murder as a likely charge, especially if video footage could indicate the kid was running or had his back turned, that kind of proof would put him away in all likelihood.
     
    #729
  5. TheCommissioner

    TheCommissioner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2015
    Messages:
    3,434
    Likes Received:
    0
    considering things like the Tamir Rice and Walter Scott MURDERS, yes I as a black man have a good chance of being subjected to something like that

    the two men accosted by badge wearing thugs in Target were subjected to what they were BECAUSE of someone jumping to a conclusion

    Thank you for making the point for me
     
    #730
  6. DeadPresident

    DeadPresident Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2011
    Messages:
    12,474
    Likes Received:
    30
    Yes...fighting fire with fire, that sounds like a successful strategy :up:
     
    #731
  7. NotNickFury

    NotNickFury Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2016
    Messages:
    5,305
    Likes Received:
    11
    See, I can't tell if you're being genuine here or just playing devil's advocate.
     
    #732
  8. TheCommissioner

    TheCommissioner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2015
    Messages:
    3,434
    Likes Received:
    0
    depends on the strategy

    I want the world for those racist inbred a-holes that they want for the brown and black people they are so scared of
     
    #733
  9. DeadPresident

    DeadPresident Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2011
    Messages:
    12,474
    Likes Received:
    30
    When I'm talking to people that seem unreasonable it's more the latter. I don't have an issue entertaining that the old man is racist, I'm just saying claiming it as fact is highly presumptuous.

    Which part are you referring to specifically? I can contextualize it.

    See this is the issue. You seem to like lashing out at whites in general, irrespective of whether they actually are the "racist inbred a-holes" you think they are or if there are just enough hints that make you jump to that conclusion.

    So from the perspective of putting your energy or thoughts into something constructive, is wishing ill on incurable racists really what your energy and thoughts should be on…? A lot of your posts really just seem like you venting your emotions and not necessarily linked directly to the facts of whatever topic you're writing about.

    You really seem to hate the social landscape in the States, more violence or aggression ain't solving that.
     
    #734
  10. DarthSkywalker

    DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    86,137
    Likes Received:
    106
    The CEO specifically said they were looking at their policies. That the police were called on two guys waiting and causing no issues raises the question, would she have done this if they were white? And I think we all know that answer.
     
    #735
  11. DarthSkywalker

    DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    86,137
    Likes Received:
    106
    I think seeing someone ring the door bell, seeing their race, taking that as they are criminal and then to get a gun and shoot at them makes them obviously racist. Separating the wife and husband here makes not one bit of sense. They worked in tandem with no evidence of anything. They just started accusing and shooting.
     
    #736
  12. DeadPresident

    DeadPresident Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2011
    Messages:
    12,474
    Likes Received:
    30
    Maybe, maybe not - "worked in tandem" makes it sound like they're the Pinky and the Brain of shooting at black teenagers. Not one bit of sense? I'm not sure about that. From the description of the scenario it's the wife's reaction that caused her husband to get the gun. it seemed to happen quickly, it's not like they were having an in-depth back and forth ascertaining whether the person was black.

    "Honey, who's at the door?"

    "A young man looking for directions to the school".

    "That's nice dear, tell him to take his first left and then the second right after three miles".

    "He's black".

    "Oh, that's not nice dear - Don't give him the directions. He's black, and clearly wants to rob us. I'll fetch the rifle".

    *Cue hysterical rambling by the woman*

    Is that how it went down? Or is it possible the woman's hysterical reaction assuming it was a robbery played a part in the husband's calculation to fetch the rifle? Both of them were idiots in the situation, but it seems presumptuous (there's a lot of that in this thread…) that both were on exactly the same page about every detail in a situation that happened this fast. But this is besides the point and not what I initially commented on, my initial comment was simply pointing out that classifying someone as racist without much evidence seems a little odd.

    This thread mainly seems to be an unhealthy venting space where racist incidents are posted and then people lament the existence of cracker-ass crackers in an dysfunctional group therapy setting :huh:
     
    #737
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  13. RockSP

    RockSP MYTH SMITH ∞!!!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2003
    Messages:
    12,498
    Likes Received:
    13
    Spun up, heh. So what's the difference between those guys and the white lady who was there and said herself she asked to use the bathroom (prior to the two men entering) and wasn't given any hassle about it...wasn't asked to buy anything before being given access to the facilities? Oh, that's right, she's full of it and is lying...because reasons.
     
    #738
  14. Elektra1

    Elektra1 Ski bum

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2015
    Messages:
    2,700
    Likes Received:
    9
    I don't know if the husband is racist, the wife probably is. Which makes it more plausible that the two share the same viewpoints.

    However. If I called to my husband that someone was trying to rob us or that someone was trying to get into our house, he would likely grab any sort of weapon that we have (no guns. We don't own any. Baseball bat maybe. Or ski pole. Whatever). He would take me at my word. But would he shoot/swing at someone without checking it out for himself? No. But in Canada, we tend to ask first. Otherwise, I would have been shot numerous times for knocking at the wrong door at 8pm trying to deliver pizzas (in the US).
     
    #739
  15. DarthSkywalker

    DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    86,137
    Likes Received:
    106
    What about getting his rifle forced him too shoot at the kid? Do you honestly think the kid being black had nothing to do with the husband shooting first and asking questions later? And if not, I ask you how many incident of young white people going to a strangers door has ended with them being shot at?

    And what I find important to this very case is that the man was most likely lying about his reasoning. Surveillance footage is what got them to arrest the man.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/14/us/michigan-man-shoots-at-teen-asking-for-directions/index.html

    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-teenager-shot-at-after-asking-for-directions

    And I ask, if the wife is racist, what is the chance her husband isn't? How often is that a thing? She was just running out there talking about "those people" and her husband was like, "That just isn't right honey"?
     
    #740
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  16. TheCommissioner

    TheCommissioner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2015
    Messages:
    3,434
    Likes Received:
    0
    whites? no

    the system that enables black and brown bodies to be murdered in the streets with no consequence, and a large bunch of the citizenry that is clearly ok with it...very much so

    I hate the landscape that lets people rationalize their hate, that Michael Brown and Tamir Rice had it coming, that Trayvon Martin deserved to die

    that's what I hate
     
    #741
  17. DeadPresident

    DeadPresident Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2011
    Messages:
    12,474
    Likes Received:
    30
    I personally think it's likely it had something to do with it - but I don't like making categorical statements without sufficient evidence. So my assessment would be what chamber said before, it likely had a racial component. I don't find that to be synonymous with "this individual is a racist in general".

    I've seen a case on the hype in the relationship thread of a user describing his wife's frequent prejudicial statements/slurs about certain Munro ties and how e tries to talk to her about it and she blows it off - so it's happened at least once. Spouses don't always have exactly the same morals or values.
     
    #742
  18. RockSP

    RockSP MYTH SMITH ∞!!!

    Joined:
    May 11, 2003
    Messages:
    12,498
    Likes Received:
    13
    He's trolling, as usual.
     
    #743
  19. Aximili86

    Aximili86 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2013
    Messages:
    3,982
    Likes Received:
    60
    Shouldn't the issue here be the staff member who called the cops in the first place, rather than the officer's behavior?

    The police chief (a black dude) has a point there. They weren't just randomly passing through and decided to arrest a couple of idle black guys hanging out. They received a call-in from staff members about people occupying sales space without purchasing anything.

    The arrests are totally overkill, but the staff escalated it to that, not the cops. I guess if they'd tried other more polite/reasonable methods first (politely asked them to buy something if they wanted to sit in the store, and the guys had refused, and aggressively), the calling of cops would be warranted. Sounds like that's not what happened though, looks like the cops was the initial go-to move.

    Which is dumb. But that's not on the officers, once they get a complaint and there is some genuine tresspassing, they've gotta take the guys out of there.
     
    #744
  20. chamber-music

    chamber-music Infinity Ammo

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Messages:
    34,431
    Likes Received:
    7
    In the UK I doubt many Starbucks franchises would allow you to just hang around without ordering anything but it seems to be pretty common in Starbucks in the U.S.

    Even a few of the eye witnesses to this event said they had been hanging out in the Starbucks without ordering anything.

    I don't know if there was a racial motivation as to why this Starbucks employee took particular issue with the two black guys but it is strange they were singled out when numerous other people have said they hang out in that Starbucks branch all the time without ordering and the staff never ask them to order or leave.
     
    #745
  21. KRYPTON INC.

    KRYPTON INC. Incorporated Kryptonian

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Messages:
    57,772
    Likes Received:
    304
    Remember folks... Police Officers are apparently devoid of the capacity of common sense and have zero discretionary authority at their fingertips.

    So you can call them for anything, any kind of alleged crime and upon arrival they have to arrest and charge someone.

    ...

    ...

    ...


    What kind of bereft of reality world view is this?

    Seriously? The police had no real reason to take these guys in. They were called. Okay? And? Upon arrival two people are peaceable siting down. Oh the horror. They explain they are waiting for a friend. Again... Not violent or illegal. Also, said friend actually shows up as they are being arrested, so that corroborated their story.


    But... We all shouldn't be surprised there are people so detached from reality that they defend this sort of thing no matter what. Henry Louis Gates was literally arrested in front of his own home.

    Not one white person in the U.S. would have silently put up with that but ya'know... Gates and other Americans are supposed to just grant a mulligan to authorities every time.
     
    #746
  22. chamber-music

    chamber-music Infinity Ammo

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Messages:
    34,431
    Likes Received:
    7
    Bad time to be Black in Coffee shops recently.

    A black actor got a attacked by a racist El Salvadorian woman in a coffee shop Madrid.

    Can't post the link due to the language and graphic imagery.
     
    #747
  23. Hypestyle

    Hypestyle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2000
    Messages:
    7,201
    Likes Received:
    3
    In an affluent suburb north of Detroit, a local teen got lost while walking to school, and approached a random house to ask for directions. He almost lost his life:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/14/us/michigan-teen-shot-directions.html



    Brennan Walker, 14, of Rochester Hills, Mich., woke up around 7:30 a.m. on Thursday — too late. He had slept through his alarm and was going to miss the school bus.

    So he decided to walk to Rochester High School, where he is a freshman. That takes about an hour and a half, but he thought he would at least make it in time for his third-period class in world studies, his favorite subject.

    Brennan did not have his smartphone that morning, and so, lacking assistance from GPS, he tried to follow the route his bus usually takes. He ended up in a quiet subdivision where the roads looped into each other, and when he noticed he had gone in a circle, he stopped to ask for help.

    He tried one home, and then another. A woman answered the door, he said, and began yelling almost immediately, as if he were trying to break into her house.

    “She didn’t really give me a chance to speak a lot, and I was trying to tell her that I go to Rochester High and I was looking for directions,” Brennan said on Friday. “A few moments later the guy came downstairs, and he grabbed the shotgun.”
    Continue reading the main story

    Brennan ran. The man followed briefly, walking out of his house and stepping off his porch, according to home security camera footage reviewed by the authorities. He fired a single shot with a 12-gauge shotgun, but Brennan was not hit. The teenager kept running. A few minutes later he encountered deputies — the woman at the home had called the authorities — and told his story.


    The authorities said Jeffery Zeigler, 53, fired his shotgun once at a teenager who asked for directions on Thursday. Credit Oakland County Sheriff's Office

    “It’s disgusting, it’s disturbing and it’s unacceptable on every level,” Sheriff Michael Bouchard of Oakland County said. On Friday, the man, Jeffery Zeigler, 53, was charged with assault with intent to murder and possession of a firearm in the commission of a felony, the authorities said.


    Join a deep and provocative exploration of race with a diverse group of New York Times journalists.


    The security footage suggested that Mr. Zeigler was “not terribly weapons-competent,” Sheriff Bouchard added. “He was slower to discharge the weapon and as a result, allowed this young man, thankfully, to get farther away.”

    The episode involving Brennan, who is black, called to mind instances in which black people have been killed by armed civilians or the police in recent years, like Stephon Clark, 22, who was fatally shot last month by Sacramento police officers, setting off widespread protests. Brennan’s story is similar to that of Renisha McBride, 19, who approached a stranger’s home in a Detroit suburb and was shot and killed in 2013.

    Brennan’s mother, Lisa Wright, said she considered Rochester Hills, a Detroit suburb, a safe community but was only half-surprised that her son was threatened. “As a black person, I know it’s a possibility,” she said.

    Mrs. Wright was mindful of what has happened to other black teenagers, like Trayvon Martin, the unarmed 17-year-old in Florida who was killed while wearing a hooded sweatshirt by a neighborhood watch volunteer. She said she had already had the talk with her son about all of the extra things he might have to do to keep himself safe: Don’t wear hoodies. Be open and approachable. Take your hands out of your pockets. She added that in the security footage she had seen, her son appeared to be doing everything right on Thursday morning.

    “I just remember a huge shotgun being pointed and aimed at my son,” she said. “My son was running away.”

    Mr. Zeigler, a retired firefighter, told a District Court judge on Friday that he was in bed on Thursday morning when his wife began “screaming and crying,” The Associated Press reported. “There’s a lot more to the story than what’s being told,” he added, “and I believe that will come out in court.”
     
    #748
  24. B

    B [insert witty comment]

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    7,954
    Likes Received:
    20
    Causing no issues other than the 2 of them refusing to make a purchase & then subsequently refusing to leave at the request of the staff because of this.

    As for looking at their polices, it's such an ambiguous term it really means very little. No policy they have regarding notifying the authorities if you are asked to leave (for whatever reason) & refuse, will change.

    I've read half a dozen articles & flicked through the woman's Twitter feed & unless I'm missing it, she doesn't mention that she asked staff & was allowed to use the restroom facilities without hassle. Got a link for that part?

    What she does say is that 'other white people do the same thing', meaning go to Starbucks, don't buy anything & take a seat at a table in full view of the staff for an indefinite period of time to use the free wifi or in this case wait on a friend. Now that I find difficult to believe, according to Docker it is common, I know it isn't common where I live & the dozen or so Starbucks near me. People lingering around for extended periods of time after they've had their coffee or snack, yes I can believe & have seen that, but Starbucks doesn't have an open door policy for people to roll in off the street & use their facilities or take up tables & chairs indefinitely if you aren't paying.

    It's definitely not the case in the UK which is one of the reasons why I find it so hard to believe. Particularly when it's with somewhere like Starbucks as you often find, much like with McDonalds, Burger King & other global franchises, that their policy regarding these sorts of things is universal. If you're allowed to chill in Starbucks in the US without ever needing to order anything, how do they stop the homeless from just wondering in taking refuge?

    I recall being in a couple of Starbucks in New York & while there wasn't anything regarding using seats/tables without order, there were some quite passive aggressive signs regarding the use of toilets being strictly for paying customers.
     
    #749
  25. Docker2.0

    Docker2.0 Watchin' you!

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    24,320
    Likes Received:
    2
    Oh! You live in the UK? Then I understand why you find it so hard to believe about people not ordering things at Starbucks and sit there for hours. Here it is VERY common. People use the wifi all the time without ordering. I think it's part of the appeal of Starbucks.
     
    #750
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"