Discussion: Racism - Part 3

[Wylie Times]

Why was a movie of that made not that long ago? Surely you'd think that it might seem politically incorrect? It's not like it was just a historical depiction of something either, but the flag just being used in a fun way, almost like a car driving around in a cops-and-robbers car chase caper with a swastika for fun. But no-one would ever dream of driving around in a car with a swastika for fun. Is the confederate flag seen as more acceptable than the swastika?

I'm guessing that no-one would make a movie or series reboot now? But wouldn't the flag still have carried negative associations even back in the late 70s/ early 80s when the series was made, or even a few years ago when the film adaptation was made?

To Black people they represent the exact same thing. Unfortunately in this country if black people speak up and say something is disrespectful or harmful to us a large portion of the population will ignore us or make it clear they don't care.

When people claim that the confederate flag is about "Southern pride" what they really mean to say is "White Southern identify". Black People make up a huge chunk of the population in the South and that flag has NEVER represented us. In fact any time black American's have fought for Civil Rights the opposition has made it a point to show up with the confederate flag and used it as a tool of intimidation.

The ONLY reason more people a backing off of the bogus "It's heritage not hate" claim is because more and more the confederate flag has been appearing right next to the Nazi swastika and it's almost impossible to disassociate the two now.

For all the talk of preserving history, those that romanticize the confederacy work awful hard to change it. On these very boards there have been a number of posters who have tried to claim the Civil War had nothing to do with Slavery, that Slavery "wasn't that bad", and other easily disprove nonsense about he confederacy and the south in an attempt to whitewash history.

 

[RockSP]

Someone please explain to me the significance of Confederates and the Confederate flag for racism. Not being familiar with American history apart from knowing the civil war was fought between the Unionists and the Confederates, why are the latter spoken of in the same breath as Neo Nazis and White Supremacists? I know they kept slaves but was it just them or other Americans from the North?

There was slavery in the north as well. They abolished it before the south was forced to do the same, but it's not like the north was some loving welcoming paradise for black people like some try to pretend it was. And even in this day and age certain places up north have a reputation for being very racist. Boston for example. That the recent white nationalist rally held there was overwhelmingly skewed toward counter protesters was somewhat surprising to me. A welcome surprise of course.

 

[Hotwire]

Did you ask what the context was? I am curious how he spins that.

No. I gave up on him.

Why would an American be 'deported' to Zimbabwe?

A fair question, I wish I knew what his logic was.

As far as some are concerned even if you're born here you're from another country.

Very true, and very sad.

 

[Dark Raven]

To Black people they represent the exact same thing. Unfortunately in this country if black people speak up and say something is disrespectful or harmful to us a large portion of the population will ignore us or make it clear they don't care.

When people claim that the confederate flag is about "Southern pride" what they really mean to say is "White Southern identify". Black People make up a huge chunk of the population in the South and that flag has NEVER represented us. In fact any time black American's have fought for Civil Rights the opposition has made it a point to show up with the confederate flag and used it as a tool of intimidation.

The ONLY reason more people a backing off of the bogus "It's heritage not hate" claim is because more and more the confederate flag has been appearing right next to the Nazi swastika and it's almost impossible to disassociate the two now.

For all the talk of preserving history, those that romanticize the confederacy work awful hard to change it. On these very boards there have been a number of posters who have tried to claim the Civil War had nothing to do with Slavery, that Slavery "wasn't that bad", and other easily disprove nonsense about he confederacy and the south in an attempt to whitewash history.

There was slavery in the north as well. They abolished it before the south was forced to do the same, but it's not like the north was some loving welcoming paradise for black people like some try to pretend it was. And even in this day and age certain places up north have a reputation for being very racist. Boston for example. That the recent white nationalist rally held there was overwhelmingly skewed toward counter protesters was somewhat surprising to me. A welcome surprise of course.

Thank you both for explaining this. These kinds of answers were partly what I was looking for earlier, which you're not just going to get from reading Wikipedia. I didn't want to have to read dozens of articles or essays at that time of the night when I asked the question either, which might not be direct answers to my question. I don't see why non-Americans should be expected to know all the little details like this.

I didn't know the confederate flag has been appearing increasingly next to the swastika.

So couldn't the Dukes of Hazzard, with them driving around with that big flag on their hood, be seen as rather offensive, like they're a specifically identifying themselves as possible white supremacists and racists? If someone drove that kind of car around in real life, apart from perhaps in the white southern circles, wouldn't that be seen as baiting others? It would be like driving around with a swastika wouldn't it? I wouldn't be surprised if people have that car in real life.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Thank you both for explaining this. These kinds of answers were partly what I was looking for earlier, which you're not just going to get from reading Wikipedia. I didn't want to have to read dozens of articles or essays at that time of the night when I asked the question either, which might not be direct answers to my question. I don't see why non-Americans should be expected to know all the little details like this.

I didn't know the confederate flag has been appearing increasingly next to the swastika.

So couldn't the Dukes of Hazzard, with them driving around with that big flag on their hood, be seen as rather offensive, like they're a specifically identifying themselves as possible white supremacists and racists? If someone drove that kind of car around in real life, apart from perhaps in the white southern circles, wouldn't that be seen as baiting others? It would be like driving around with a swastika wouldn't it? I wouldn't be surprised if people have that car in real life.

There was a concerted effort to change the history about the Confederacy after the war. The University of Mississippi used to have the flag and an old man from the 1800s as their mascot. Known as the Rebels.

Like the Dukes of Hazzard, the Confederacy was redefined as a group of honorable men just standing up for their rights.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

The Stormfront website has been suspended by its domain registrar:

http://www.salon.com/2017/08/28/stormfront-internets-oldest-major-racist-website-has-domain-suspended/?utm_content=inf_11_3115_2&utm_source=SocialEdge&utm_campaign=influencer&tse_id=INF_d178f9108c0911e7a7253d7eefa2109b

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Thank you both for explaining this. These kinds of answers were partly what I was looking for earlier, which you're not just going to get from reading Wikipedia. I didn't want to have to read dozens of articles or essays at that time of the night when I asked the question either, which might not be direct answers to my question. I don't see why non-Americans should be expected to know all the little details like this.

I didn't know the confederate flag has been appearing increasingly next to the swastika.

So couldn't the Dukes of Hazzard, with them driving around with that big flag on their hood, be seen as rather offensive, like they're a specifically identifying themselves as possible white supremacists and racists? If someone drove that kind of car around in real life, apart from perhaps in the white southern circles, wouldn't that be seen as baiting others? It would be like driving around with a swastika wouldn't it? I wouldn't be surprised if people have that car in real life.

FL may not be the real south but we still have our fair share of redneck idiots. Lots of people drive around with confederate flag stickers or other memorabilia on their vehicles. It's not uncommon to see big jacked up trucks flying them either.

 

[Dark Raven]

I read online that in 2015, the Dukes of Hazzard was pulled from the TV schedule for reruns. Did something happen in 2015 concerning the Confederates? Anyway, it seems related to an incident. Apparently John Schneider thought it was being overly PC, and was questioning whether now people are going to think all those who watched the Dukes of Hazzard are racist.

At the time I watched it, the flag had no significance for me. It was just a southern flag. In fact, since I don't live in the US, I've never thought of it as anything else but the flag of the south or an alternative US flag and had no idea it had all these racist overtones until recently.

I don't know if the show was deliberately trying to link itself to the Confederates, or if they just thought that it's set in the south, and so they wanted a typical southern icon and thought that the Confederate flag would be a good idea. But apparently golfer Bubba Watson who owns one of the original 1969 Dodge Chargers no longer wishes the car to be associated with the Confederates and had it the flag painted over with the regular US flag.

Also, I saw that John Schneider is only 57. Smallville started in 2001. That means he was only 41 at the time? That seems really young. And that means when he was in the Dukes of Hazzard when it started, he was only 19.

Now on another note, is the song "Dixie" also considered racist? That seems to be associated with the Confederates too. That was also the horn sound on the General Lee in Dukes of Hazzard.

But Elvis sung "Dixie" in "An American Trilogy", followed by "Battle Hymn of the Republic." Is "Battle Hymn" a Unionist song? If so, why would that American Trilogy start off with a Confederate song and end with a Unionist song? What an odd combination.

 

[Wylie Times]

I read online that in 2015, the Dukes of Hazzard was pulled from the TV schedule for reruns. Did something happen in 2015 concerning the Confederates? Anyway, it seems related to an incident. Apparently John Schneider thought it was being overly PC, and was questioning whether now people are going to think all those who watched the Dukes of Hazzard are racist.

At the time I watched it, the flag had no significance for me. It was just a southern flag. In fact, since I don't live in the US, I've never thought of it as anything else but the flag of the south or an alternative US flag and had no idea it had all these racist overtones until recently.

I don't know if the show was deliberately trying to link itself to the Confederates, or if they just thought that it's set in the south, and so they wanted a typical southern icon and thought that the Confederate flag would be a good idea. But apparently golfer Bubba Watson who owns one of the original 1969 Dodge Chargers no longer wishes the car to be associated with the Confederates and had it the flag painted over with the regular US flag.

Also, I saw that John Schneider is only 57. Smallville started in 2001. That means he was only 41 at the time? That seems really young. And that means when he was in the Dukes of Hazzard when it started, he was only 19.

Now on another note, is the song "Dixie" also considered racist? That seems to be associated with the Confederates too. That was also the horn sound on the General Lee in Dukes of Hazzard.

But Elvis sung "Dixie" in "An American Trilogy", followed by "Battle Hymn of the Republic." Is "Battle Hymn" a Unionist song? If so, why would that American Trilogy start off with a Confederate song and end with a Unionist song? What an odd combination.

In 2015 Dylann Roof walked into an historically black church and murdered 9 people in cold blood. Roof was known among friends and family to have adopted the confederate flag (and other flags representing white supremacist nations) as a symbol. Roof also wanted to start a "Race war" in order to preserve the white race. Roof told multiple people what he was planning to do and NOBODY called the authorities until it was too late.

Schneider sounded like he was more upset that he was going to miss out on the checks he was getting from the show being in syndication.

 

[chamber-music]

People who aren't American obviously aren't too familiar with American history, culture and symbols.

In Scandinavia there is a fifties Americana greaser subculture called Raggare. It is not uncommon to see a lot of those guys wearing Confederate flags on their jackets or on their cars. They aren't that aware of the social and historical links associated with the flag. Most of them just think of it as another cool part of American culture exported to them through televisions shows, movies and music.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raggare

 

[Black Narcissus]

President gave pardon to a lowlife racist piece of crap. Enough said.

 

[Lily Adler]

White Lawmaker Has Warning to Black Attorney Over Confederate Statues

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/wh...eatened/ar-AAr0gpO?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

 

[Dark Raven]

If the Confederates are generally regarded as racists and white supremacists/ neo Nazis, then how come there aren't any movies with them as the villains?

It seems that Hollywood has no trouble shamelessly portraying Nazis as villains and using them as cannon fodder without fear that they might offend some surviving Nazis. They are used as villains everyone loves to hate and are usually portrayed in very black and white terms rather than in any shades of grey.

But you don't really see many (if any) films with the Confederates used as cannon fodder without the need to make them sympathetic etc. For that matter, you don't really see films with the KKK as villains. Why is that? Is there any place where some of them are considered "very fine people"?

Marvel should make a Black Panther sequel with him fighting some Confederates/ White Supremacists/ Neo-Nazis or KKK.

 

[moviedoors]

For that matter, you don't really see films with the KKK as villains.

Maybe YOU don't see them. Mississippi Burning? Ghosts of Mississippi? Twilight Zone The Movie? American History X? Bad Boys 2? A Time To Kill? Django Unchanined?

 

[RockSP]

Marvel should make a Black Panther sequel with him fighting some Confederates/ White Supremacists/ Neo-Nazis or KKK.

Nah.

 

[Kane52630]

Marvel should make a Black Panther sequel with him fighting some Confederates/ White Supremacists/ Neo-Nazis or KKK.

Close enough...

[YT]C_bfOWof0Sg[/YT]

 

[Dark Raven]

Maybe YOU don't see them. Mississippi Burning? Ghosts of Mississippi? Twilight Zone The Movie? American History X? Bad Boys 2? A Time To Kill? Django Unchanined?

I've seen some of those movies, but not others. Some of them are just historical-based dramas. I was talking more about action movies with them as cannon fodder, like you see Indiana Jones beating up Nazis who are trying to harness some force to conquer the world.

But my main point was about the Confederates. I don't know if there are any modern movies with them as villains who can just be cannon fodder like you might get Nazis blasted left, right and centre.

But even Captain America: The First Avenger shied away from using Nazis for some reason. It's not like Marvel had to be careful of not offending that group.

 

[Lily Adler]

Wasn't there a Matthew McConaughey movie with Sam Jackson and Sandra Bullock that vilified the KKK?

 

[Venom 1988]

Wasn't there a Matthew McConaughey movie with Sam Jackson and Sandra Bullock that vilified the KKK?

A Time to Kill

 

[Dark Raven]

Close enough...

[YT]C_bfOWof0Sg[/YT]

It's got that actress from the Lethal Weapon TV series!

Wasn't there a Matthew McConaughey movie with Sam Jackson and Sandra Bullock that vilified the KKK?

That was just that John Grisham adaptation. I want to see movies with the KKK being shot down like the Nazis were in classic war films. But I gave the example of Indiana Jones, which is more fantasy, which is more the kind of thing I'd like to see with a protagonist wiping the floor with them.

 

[Sithborg]

Here's the thing though, the KKK were never in a war zone.

There should be enough Civil War movies out there, though keep in mind, a lot of them are probably whitewashed.

 

[terry78]

Stuff regarding our own people being villainous *******s is still a touchy subject even among the most liberal of filmmkers. Nazis are like THE literal live action version of supervillains that everyone around the world has dealt with. KKK guys, sad to say there are probably people that have to deal with family members or associates that are part of these groups and makes it weird.

 

[Dr. Evil]

President gave pardon to a lowlife racist piece of crap. Enough said.

He's looking to appoint the new head of the Gestapo.

 

[hellified]

Here's the thing though, the KKK were never in a war zone.

There should be enough Civil War movies out there, though keep in mind, a lot of them are probably whitewashed.

the kkk is a terrorist organization...no different from al qaeda

 

[Sithborg]

We nominally don't use soldiers on home soil.