Discussion: The DEMOCRATIC P - Part 2

[KRYPTON INC.]

And Franken is out.

 

[samsnee]

It’s a shame because he was a great advocate for other causes but it was inevitable.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Al REALLY disappointed me with the revelations. That said... This is a real text book example of the differences in the parties right now. When years pass and as always the lazy politically interested folk will say that there is no difference in the parties many will be able point to the difference between how allegations were handled for Moore and how they were handled for Franken.

 

[terry78]

He resigns yet others won't. I see how it is.

 

[AvengerPA]

The Democrats won't be hurt by the loss of Al Franken and John Conyers. They will easily be replaced by other Democrats.

 

[Sithborg]

Until McConnell plays games preventing Franken's replacement from being seated.

 

[Quasar]

Watch McConnell rush through another Repeal vote white Franken's seat's vacant.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

I think the plan if for Franken to finish out the current session, (which ends shortly) and then the MN Governor will appoint his replacement who will serve from when they reconvene until the mid-term elections next year.

 

[chaseter]

It’s a shame because he was a great advocate for other causes but it was inevitable.

I can assault women but be a champion for poor children and get a pass? No. The shame is that he sexually assaulted multiple women and didn’t have the decency to apologize and step down before being forced. No side is better than the other side here, Left or Right. They are all powerful men that abuse their power through sexual assault.

Ranking sexual assault or playing the “who is more of a sexual deviant” game is gross and an insult to everyone who has been sexually assaulted. Who Franken assaulted is just as important as who Roy Moore assaulted. Neither are lesser or more of a victim related to the other. I am shocked/disgusted by the attempted rationalization over Franken’s actions by using Roy Moore as a bigger wolf for the sheep to be worried about. I agree with everyone stating zero tolerance and not surprised by the hypocrisy from the politicians and supporters.

 

[chaseter]

He resigns yet others won't. I see how it is.

He was forced. He didn’t make the right decision, others made it for him. The DNC did the right thing...Franken did not. Franken is no better than Roy Moore. The only difference now is that the GOP values party over decency but who is honestly shocked about that?

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

I can assault women but be a champion for poor children and get a pass? No. The shame is that he sexually assaulted multiple women and didn’t have the decency to apologize and step down before being forced. No side is better than the other side here, Left or Right. They are all powerful men that abuse their power through sexual assault.

Ranking sexual assault or playing the “who is more of a sexual deviant” game is gross and an insult to everyone who has been sexually assaulted. Who Franken assaulted is just as important as who Roy Moore assaulted. Neither are lesser or more of a victim related to the other. I am shocked/disgusted by the attempted rationalization over Franken’s actions by using Roy Moore as a bigger wolf for the sheep to be worried about. I agree with everyone stating zero tolerance and not surprised by the hypocrisy from the politicians and supporters.

He was forced. He didn’t make the right decision, others made it for him. The DNC did the right thing...Franken did not. Franken is no better than Roy Moore. The only difference now is that the GOP values party over decency but who is honestly shocked about that?

Actually (surprise), you're wrong. Nobody is claiming that Franken should get a pass of any kind nor that his abuses are less than Moore's. What people are referring to is Franken taking full responsibility with his very first statement that did not shame the victim's or try to excuse his own actions then also calling for a formal investigation of HIS OWN ACTIONS.

Contrast that with Moore/Trump who outright call their victims liars and/or flat out deny ever meeting or knowing them regardless of what evidence is brought forward.

Pretty big difference. In an ideal world we wouldn't have to be shocked and disgusted that our elected officials are routinely accused of and convicted of sexual assualts. We would also not have had a Trump presidency in that world I would guess. Obviously, that's not what we are working with.

 

[Sithborg]

Don't forget Trump insulting their looks. CNN just played that clip. I had forgotten that part...

 

[chaseter]

Actually (surprise), you're wrong. Nobody is claiming that Franken should get a pass of any kind nor that his abuses are less than Moore's. What people are referring to is Franken taking full responsibility with his very first statement that did not shame the victim's or try to excuse his own actions then also calling for a formal investigation of HIS OWN ACTIONS.

Contrast that with Moore/Trump who outright call their victims liars and/or flat out deny ever meeting or knowing them regardless of what evidence is brought forward.

Pretty big difference. In an ideal world we wouldn't have to be shocked and disgusted that our elected officials are routinely accused of and convicted of sexual assualts. We would also not have had a Trump presidency in that world I would guess. Obviously, that's not what we are working with.

Franken was pushed so please with the holier than though. He got caught. Why didn’t he resign before this was public? Same for Trump. Same for Moore. They are all the same. Not one is better than the other. Should Trump and Moore step down or be removed? YES. Does stepping down now make Franken a better person? NO.

Someone literally on this page said it was a shame about Franken. I’ve seen people saying Franken should stay if Roy Moore or Trump are staying. That is defending deplorable actions and marginalizing their victims because the good outweighs the bad. I feel like I’m living in the Twilight Zone. Who is going to do the right thing? No one wants to take responsibility for anything. Not our President, not our Representatives, not our media/actors/police/etc etc etc and most of all...our fellow people.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Franken was pushed so please with the holier than though. He got caught. Why didn’t he resign before this was public? Same for Trump. Same for Moore. They are all the same. Not one is better than the other. Should Trump and Moore step down or be removed? YES. Does stepping down now make Franken a better person? NO.

Someone literally on this page said it was a shame about Franken. I’ve seen people saying Franken should stay if Roy Moore or Trump are staying. That is defending deplorable actions and marginalizing their victims because the good outweighs the bad. I feel like I’m living in the Twilight Zone. Who is going to do the right thing? No one wants to take responsibility for anything. Not our President, not our Representatives, not our media/actors/police/etc etc etc and most of all...our fellow people.

I don't disagree with the majority of this statement. But to act like Franken didn't do the only quasi-"right" thing here (y'know, besides just not sexually assaulting anyone in the first place) is ridiculous.

The vast majority of politicians/CEO's/powerful people in general do so because they are completely or have a large amount of psychopathic/sociopathic traits. Those are the ones that win on a regular basis. That's just what the science shows on those who get power.

And you're 100% correct that the only way this will ever change is if we, the people, do something about it. The vast majority are straddled with partisan blinders and stirred up at buzzwords to research or think clearly about who/why they are voting. That skews heavily to the republican side, you can't act like the GOP hasn't voted on a continuous basis over the last 30-40 years to f*** anyone who isn't in the upper class.

That's literally the only thing they have been consistent on. While the Dems can't get their s*** together half the time they do consistently try to move the ball forward on doing things that's in this country's best interest (healthcare/fighting climate change/raising the minimum wage) of which their are several different ideas on how to execute it properly done with varying degrees of success.

Both sides suck equally is not a valid argument, it's a false dichotomy.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Actually (surprise), you're wrong. Nobody is claiming that Franken should get a pass of any kind nor that his abuses are less than Moore's. What people are referring to is Franken taking full responsibility with his very first statement that did not shame the victim's or try to excuse his own actions then also calling for a formal investigation of HIS OWN ACTIONS.

Contrast that with Moore/Trump who outright call their victims liars and/or flat out deny ever meeting or knowing them regardless of what evidence is brought forward.

Pretty big difference. In an ideal world we wouldn't have to be shocked and disgusted that our elected officials are routinely accused of and convicted of sexual assualts. We would also not have had a Trump presidency in that world I would guess. Obviously, that's not what we are working with.

Sexual Misconduct is Sexual Misconduct. But like you've said, how the perpetrator reacts upon the news breaking DOES make a difference. But regardless of how he handled that first statement, Franken needed to resign, just like Conyers. Moore and Trump just dig themselves deeper holes because they refuse to own up and attack their victims.

 

[Hypestyle]

Finally-- hopefully they will at least curb this practice, even though it needs to go.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...legates-ahead-of-2020/ar-BBGpaNa?ocid=UE07DHP

ATLANTA — Democrats are considering a plan that would limit — but not abandon — the influence of "superdelegates" in the next presidential primary, after a bruising 2016 primary prompted allegations by Bernie Sanders' supporters that the system was rigged.

The changes, outlined in a draft proposal obtained by The Associated Press, probably wouldn't have made a difference in last year's primary. Hillary Clinton received at least 3 million more primary votes than Sanders.

But the new proposal would dent the ability of heavy favorites like Clinton to stockpile early endorsements and claim a wide delegate lead before voters actually cast ballots.

Superdelegates are the party leaders and elected officials who get a say in the nomination race. In 2016, they favored Clinton by lopsided margins, and Sanders supporters believe he lost the nomination in part because of it.

In the draft proposal, a special national party commission calls for keeping some 400 members of the Democratic National Committee as automatic delegates to the convention.

But under the new rules, those superdelegates would have to tie their votes on the convention's first ballot to the outcome of primaries and caucuses. In 2016, all superdelegates were allowed to support either candidate.

Some superdelegates would retain their right to vote as they please. That includes member of Congress, sitting governors and other high-profile party elders, a group that varies in size from convention to convention.

At the 2016 convention, unpledged superdelegates accounted for about 15 percent of all the votes. As it stands, the proposal would at least cut that share in half. The proposal tracks a compromise already endorsed by the Sanders and Clinton camps.

The issue is among several that will be debated Friday and Saturday at the final meeting of national Democrats' Unity Commission, a panel appointed by Clinton, Sanders and DNC Chairman Tom Perez to recommend changes for the party after the last contentious primary season.

The full national party committee will consider the commission's ideas next year.

Larry Cohen, a Sanders supporter and co-chair of the Unity Commission, declined to comment on the details, but said, "We will be governed by what a full convention has already approved."

Cohen and other Democrats stressed, however, that commission members have been busy circulating amendments ahead of the commission's weekend gathering in metro Washington.

 

[Sithborg]

[looks at Trump]

Maybe not the worst thing to have.

And in other news, Conyer's replacement isn't getting a special election until the general. So, his area of Detroit is going to not have representation for nearly a year.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

NY Times - Live Alabama Election Results: Roy Moore and Doug Jones Compete for Senate Seat

https://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/alabama-senate-special-election-roy-moore-doug-jones

 

[Sithborg]

CNN has Jones up 10k votes, with mainly blue counties reporting.

Dear lord.

EDIT: Fox News just called it for Jones. Oh. My. God.

 

[Quasar]

Wow. The blue wave is real!

 

[KevanG]

Well it looks like Moore is going to lose but it's close as ****.

Waaay too close for common sense.

 

[terry78]

Doug Jones takes it.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Luther Strange would have won for the Republicans probably this year.

But I'll enjoy it all the same when that party makes a mistake with another freak show candidate.

Jones was always the underdog. Jeff Sessions (R) won 97.3% of the vote last time for that seat unopposed.

If Jones wins it's been flipped in Alabama.

 

[Sithborg]

Well it looks like Moore is going to lose but it's close as ****.

Waaay too close for common sense.

This is god damn Alabama. Were the last time Jeff Sessions faced a Democratic opponent, he won by 27%. Trump won by 27%.

 

[Boom]

Oh next year ought to be fun.