Disrespected Hero's who never get their Props!!!

[Hmarrs]

what a depressing collection of nonachievements.

Well now wait a minute.
Reed has made shrinking devices of his own.In light of that alone he cancels Pym out.

 

[GL1]

Cyclops has been getting his respect in the comics recently (Say, post 2008), even the point of hushing Emma and kicking Professor Xavier out of his own X-Men. The fact that he runs the X-Men and no one questions him, not even Wolverine nowadays, is pretty pwnage. Now, outside of the comics, he's treated like absolute crap, but, hey, that's the rub.

There are more than a few neglected X_men, though, to be fair, as much as I love cyke.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That's the absolute opposite of respect to me, personally. I've hated Cyclops' more militant, aggressive portrayal of the past few years. Last time I actually liked him was in Whedon's Astonishing X-Men. He was himself, but more charismatic and confident than he's seemed in a long time. Now he's just a raging *****ebag.

 

[GL1]

I'll admit, it would be quite nice to see Cyclops be humbled, become more well rounded and generally turn into a more natural charismatic evolution of his character rather than a result of an evolution of his position. That said, respect is respect, and at this point, who really disrespects Cyclops in the comics? When Wolverine disagreed with a decision, he quietly went off and did in secret, lest Cyclops should find out about the treachery.

And truth be told, last time I liked him was Whedon's Astonishing as well, but if the word is respect, you really can't beat 'leader of the mutant race.' Especially the one who gets proven right about Hope. *****einess and all.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Well, my definition of respect for fictional characters tends to be staying true to the core of the character. "Morally ambiguous military general Cyclops" isn't really true to his character, so it's not particularly respectful to me. I mean, Spider-Man could go around breaking random thugs' kneecaps and throwing them off buildings and such; people would obviously respect him, but he wouldn't really be Spider-Man anymore, would he? But to each his own.

 

[Hmarrs]

Well, my definition of respect for fictional characters tends to be staying true to the core of the character. "Morally ambiguous military general Cyclops" isn't really true to his character, so it's not particularly respectful to me. I mean, Spider-Man could go around breaking random thugs' kneecaps and throwing them off buildings and such; people would obviously respect him, but he wouldn't really be Spider-Man anymore, would he? But to each his own.

Well now wait a minute it may actually be true to chracter.
If we look at Cykes history he may be see it the way we do.
He may be sick and tired of being underminded and overlooked and now he is going to demand respect.
So it may very well be on point.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Not to me. That's a small-minded, pathetic reaction to persecution, in my book. "These guys have been trying to harm us for years now, and I've had enough! Forget about setting an example, it's assassination squads and death to all threats from here on out! Mutants will live if we've gotta kill the whole world to do it!" It's just gonna perpetuate and escalate the mutant/human conflict.

 

[Franklin Richards]

What would Corsair think?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Probably something like, "For crying out loud, son, at least I only kill aliens!"

 

[Hound55]

Shang-Chi...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He's gonna be in Secret Avengers soon. Maybe Brubaker will do for him what he and Fraction did for Iron Fist.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Seems like Dr. Strange has been getting the shaft for a few years now. Although in the long run he's always been the BWOC.

 

[Hound55]

It looks like once Shadowland is done Secret Avengers will be the main Marvel title for me to keep an eye on... It has been for a while but that just sweetens the deal...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm actually the opposite. I'm kind of dreading the Shang-Chi arc because I'm not particularly interested in that area, plus that's not really "Avengersy" to me. But Brubaker and Fraction got me into Iron Fist, so hopefully they'll do something good with Shang-Chi too.

 

[chamber-music]

Hank had a happy relationship with Jan for a long time, both before and after the time he hit her. It was different afterward, obviously, but she eventually forgave him and they were happy together for a while.

But yeah, Reed hasn't done much compared to Hank lately.

Hanks first Hungarian wife maria has been forgotten. On their honeymoon, she was kidnapped by communist agents and killed.

context for Hank hitting Jan

Pym had always loved Janet, but various inhibitions kept him from proposing to her - feelings of inadequacy due to her wealth chief among them. One day, while he had still not fully mentally recovered from the stress of accidentally creating one of the Avengers' greatest foes in the form of Ultron, Hank had a lab accident with experimental gases. These caused a reaction in him that broke this inhibitions down, and induced a severe case of schizophrenia. This was his second breakdown, the first having been after his first wife, Maria, had been killed. Believing himself to be a new person named "Yellowjacket", Pym broke into Avengers Mansion and told the team that he had killed Henry Pym .

When the team attacked him, he captured the Wasp and escaped. Soon after, the Avengers were shocked to hear that Janet, who suspected it was Pym all along, was going to marry him.

Their wedding at Avengers Mansion was attended by a who's-who of active superheroes at the time. Immediately following, the Avengers were attacked by the villainous Circus of Crime. Janet later felt guilty at having taken advantage of Hank's mental state to finally get married, but the couple was happy...at first.

Hank later had a third breakdown, during which he was captured by Ultron, reverted to his earliest days as Ant-Man, and made to attack the Avengers. During the fighting, it was the Wasp who took down her wayward husband. Janet later suspected that this, being brought down by his own wife, may have further exacerbated Pym's fragile mental state. Meanwhile Hank became overbearing, paranoid, and verbally abusive, releasing pent-up tension resultant of his sense of failure in science, made worse when compared to his wife's financial success.

When the Avengers were battling the Elfqueen, Hank blasted her in the back during a lull in the fighting while Captain America was trying to talk her down. This began another round of fighting that caused Captain America to charge Hank for reckless behavior, since bystanders could have been killed. This began Pym's fourth nervous breakdown.

He decided that if he could build a robot to attack Avengers Mansion, he could defeat it and be a hero in the eyes of his team-mates. He included a special hidden weak spot on the robot just for the occasion. When Jan protested, Hank lashed out, brutally striking his wife. His plan went awry, and when the robot attacked the mansion, it was the Wasp who disabled it after Hasnk was overpowered. In the subsequent court-martial, Pym was stripped of his Avengers membership. Meanwhile, Jan began divorce proceedings.

 

[Hound55]

I'm actually the opposite. I'm kind of dreading the Shang-Chi arc because I'm not particularly interested in that area, plus that's not really "Avengersy" to me. But Brubaker and Fraction got me into Iron Fist, so hopefully they'll do something good with Shang-Chi too.

They're more a task force than a superpowered league really in this incarnation, but I'm ok with it so far...

I know there's a lot of people who hate the symbiotes but I like Carnage... Cassidy's got that Joker styled psychosis to him and I wouldn't mind seeing him branch out as a threat to more than just Spidey since I can agree somewhat with him being a fair bit darker than your traditional Spidey threat...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I like Carnage, too. I think there's definitely room for that totally irredeemable, psychopathic killer archetype in every universe, and Carnage fills that role well at Marvel. Not every villain has to be a Shakespearean mastermind or anything.

Hanks first Hungarian wife maria has been forgotten. On their honeymoon, she was kidnapped by communist agents and killed.

context for Hank hitting Jan

Yeah, Hank was all kinds of f***ed up at that time. Avengers Forever touches on that, too.

 

[chamber-music]

people ignore What he went through and think his Wife beating drug addict jerk as he was in Ultimates

 

[Hound55]

Was Avengers Forever... did that feature the Kang the Conquorer/Triathlon-3D man arc or was that just another which dealt with the extent of the damage to Pym's mental state?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Avengers Forever did have Kang, the 3D Man (the original, actually), Immortus, and others. It was a big time-spanning mega-story, but it also pulled the version of Hank who was convinced he was some new guy named Yellowjacket out of time and made him part of the team for that mission.

people ignore What he went through and think his Wife beating drug addict jerk as he was in Ultimates

Yeah, most people seem to just accept that label and everything it implies without having any idea of the context of what actually happened. Not that that excuses anything, but it does have a clear, specific story attached to it. He's not just some maniac who goes around beating women up for kicks.

 

[chamber-music]

yep its the context not that what he did was right

 

[Hound55]

Yeah, I'm thinking of a different arc. Kang came back and invaded bringing Marcus as the Scarlet Centurian. There was a whole thing with Warbird and him... The Master of the World was letting Kang decimate the planet since he had his own designs and the Triunes played a big part... I just suck at remembering issue numbers...

Triunes played a big part getting Hank's 3 identities back and gave further insight as to how fragile his mind was back then.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That was The Kang Dynasty. Busiek's swan song on Avengers after he'd basically written the whole series up to that point.

 

[Hound55]

Yup, that'd be it.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I still haven't read that myself. I fell out of a lot of comics around that time due to money issues. To my eternal shame, I haven't even read all of Jurgens' Thor run from around then.