World Doc Ock's lair

[Hobgoblin]

Ah, you haven't been reading this stuff have you??

The Goverment are giving the super villains a choice: Stay in prison or help round up the renegade super heros who are refusing to obey the superhero registration act.

Doc Ock joined Baron Zemo's team, who are apparently planning a double cross. Osborn was last seen being offered some deal by some secret goverment agents. I reckon they're offering him the same deal.

How brilliant of the government. Release a bunch of super-powered psychos to catch the good guys, whom the bad guys would love to torture to death. I'm sure they'll follow orders perfectly.

Is this in Front Line? I've been looking to get as many Osborn appearances as possible while buying as few Front Line issues as I can.

 

[OctoHaz]

LOL! That was bizarre the way he did that. Using that to make the tentacles go nuts and smash the glass.

In Year One, Ock's arms, at first at least, respond to his unconscious commands, rather than his conscious ones as they did pre-accident, though he adapts pretty darn quickly; he actually smashes out of his confinement before he starts up with Wagner:

(The art geek in me digs how the smashed glass of the top panel is blended with the gutters between the comic panels.)

I really LOVE the bit where Mary Alice pleads with him to stop beating up Spider-Man, then puts his glasses on him and says:

Mary Alice: "You're not really like this are you Otto??"
Ock: "You......you dare lay hands on me woman?!?!? DIE! DIE!"

He proceeds to coil a tentacle around her neck. And one of her tears falls on it. And he lets her go, and says something about her having touched his former self. Saying she must have had a profound effect on Otto Octavius, like he's speaking of another person. His parting words are not very nice. "Leave now, before I choke you with my bare hands".

He sure has a way with the ladies.

That separation between Otto Octavius and Doctor Octopus isn't unique to Year One; it's a theme that comes up also when Ock's in that mental hospital, and of course it pops up again during "Web of Death":

(Poor Stunner. But that's another subject.)

Anyway. Back to Year One.

Otto's arms are reacting to his unconscious rather than his conscious commands, which is why, when Mary-Alice is first allowed to approach the prison-cube, the arms reach out to her... though Otto doesn't seem to remember why. Later, he does try to kill her for laying hands on him, but he can't.

Year One took alot of liberties. Some I don't agree with, like Peter and Otto meeting on the college campus. Which is why I don't consider it as canon in continuity.

Great story and all, but not the official version of Ock's history.

Oh, agreed. I find it enjoyable despite the, hmmmm, historical inaccuracies, which is a testament to how good it is. B) There are definitely bits that could be included in an Octavius official biography, though they're generally the bits that don't conflict. And there are some scenes (like the one where Mary-Alice and some other person interrupt Ock while he's still trying to tap the nerves in his arms and legs for the tentacles) that I like too damn much to want to throw away, despite how they don't quite fit.

I must admit he is an adorable child. I wonder how many of the world's nastiest men were cute kids??

Probably quite a lot of them. B) Actually, I bet most adults (especially teachers, gym teachers excluded) liked the Octavius kid. Quiet, polite, hands in his homework on time (at least ten chapters ahead of the lesson plans, of course...)

Negative Exposure rocked. Ock was in top form in that. I love how he played Haight like a fool.

Ohyeah. It's high on my list of dead-tree purchases. B)

Indeed. The premise of the story is good, but it's executed very poorly IMO.

That's putting it mildly. The artwork was pretty ick as well. BP

 

[OctoHaz]

How brilliant of the government. Release a bunch of super-powered psychos to catch the good guys, whom the bad guys would love to torture to death. I'm sure they'll follow orders perfectly.

Yeah, it's, uh, not the smartest thing the pro-reg guys have ever done... B/

IIRC, most of the villain-group stuff is in Frontline, especially the Osborn stuff. Zemo's group is all in Thunderbolts, which has already sheered away from the CW plotline since, well, they're doing something weird and cosmic.

By the way, someone on the scans_daily Livejournal Community posted up a hilarious re-write of the most recent issue of Civil War, replacing all the speech balloons. Lots of spoilers, but quite funny: http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/2470457.html

Also amusing (to me, anyway), is mopey-Ock:

 

[The Joker]

How brilliant of the government. Release a bunch of super-powered psychos to catch the good guys, whom the bad guys would love to torture to death. I'm sure they'll follow orders perfectly.

LOL! This surprises you??

This is from the same idiots who had Peter unmask himself to the world. If you ask me, they deserve everything they get when the villains betray them. And they will betray them, because.....well they're villains.

Is this in Front Line? I've been looking to get as many Osborn appearances as possible while buying as few Front Line issues as I can.

I think so. I don't buy Frontline, but I heard Osborn was in one of them, confronting Ben Urich over something too.

In Year One, Ock's arms, at first at least, respond to his unconscious commands, rather than his conscious ones as they did pre-accident, though he adapts pretty darn quickly; he actually smashes out of his confinement before he starts up with Wagner:

Right you are. Remember when he first woke up angry and confused after his accident, and his tentacles went crazy, hurling him around his confinement cell. And the nurse ran out in a panic lol.

And he killed the surgeons working on him [I wonder where they got that idea from ] when he was unconscious and thought of what he did to his mother.

(The art geek in me digs how the smashed glass of the top panel is blended with the gutters between the comic panels.)

The little touches are always great. I really dug the art in this mini. Especially in the nuclear blast panels, when he was imagining people as burned out skeletons.

That separation between Otto Octavius and Doctor Octopus isn't unique to Year One; it's a theme that comes up also when Ock's in that mental hospital, and of course it pops up again during "Web of Death":

(Poor Stunner. But that's another subject.)

Right you are again. And there's also the comparison between himself and Spidey. Geek gone good and geek gone bad. You'll note he even realizes himself that Peter is everything he could have been.

And Stunner, being the supportive mate she is, tries to reassure him that he is already all those things. Sure Stunner, and there's a pig that just flew by the window

Still, I admire her dedication to him. Even if she is bull s**ting him.

Anyway. Back to Year One.

Otto's arms are reacting to his unconscious rather than his conscious commands, which is why, when Mary-Alice is first allowed to approach the prison-cube, the arms reach out to her... though Otto doesn't seem to remember why. Later, he does try to kill her for laying hands on him, but he can't.

I love that scene.

Mary Alice in that story stuck by him right to the end. No matter how verbally abusive he got, no matter how nasty he was, she defended him to the last. I really felt sorry for her.

Oh, agreed. I find it enjoyable despite the, hmmmm, historical inaccuracies, which is a testament to how good it is. B) There are definitely bits that could be included in an Octavius official biography, though they're generally the bits that don't conflict. And there are some scenes (like the one where Mary-Alice and some other person interrupt Ock while he's still trying to tap the nerves in his arms and legs for the tentacles) that I like too damn much to want to throw away, despite how they don't quite fit.

The Mary Alice thing never became an actual relationship in this mini. Unlike in Unlimited #3, where he actually dated and got engaged to her, before his mother ruined it all.

I think his father was worse in this one though. He was going to beat little Otto with his belt. Whereas in Unlimited #3, he just hurled verbal abuse at Otto.

Probably quite a lot of them. B) Actually, I bet most adults (especially teachers, gym teachers excluded) liked the Octavius kid. Quiet, polite, hands in his homework on time (at least ten chapters ahead of the lesson plans, of course...)

In his official backstory, by that I mean Unlimited #3, he was very unpopular among the students. Some of them even quit when he was appointed head of the science club:

But he did graduate at the top of his class. A true genius indeed. But as a student, he was very quiet. Like Peter Parker, he was the quiet, 4 eyed science geek with no friends, and that made him a target for bullies. Just like Peter.

Btw, what's the mopey Ock pic from?? I don't recognise it off hand.

 

[OctoHaz]

Right you are. Remember when he first woke up angry and confused after his accident, and his tentacles went crazy, hurling him around his confinement cell. And the nurse ran out in a panic lol.

And he killed the surgeons working on him [I wonder where they got that idea from ] when he was unconscious and thought of what he did to his mother.

Heh. Yeah, the just-post-accident bits in Year One definitely felt inspired by the movie.

The little touches are always great. I really dug the art in this mini. Especially in the nuclear blast panels, when he was imagining people as burned out skeletons.

Ooh, yes indeedy. That was a nice element to add to Otto's character. Especially in that first scene in the gym... with, in the end, the gym teacher telling Otto to "snap out of it" and he's just standing there with his broken glasses in his hand staring at the two bullies laughing.

Right you are again. And there's also the comparison between himself and Spidey. Geek gone good and geek gone bad. You'll note he even realizes himself that Peter is everything he could have been.

And Stunner, being the supportive mate she is, tries to reassure him that he is already all those things. Sure Stunner, and there's a pig that just flew by the window

Still, I admire her dedication to him. Even if she is bull s**ting him.

Not intentionally bull****ting, though, and to be fair, Stunner hadn't known Otto very long at that point. More to the point, it's during this period that Ock's at his most... well, I hesitate to use the term "benign" but he definitely seems a heck of a lot calmer. Stunner made him happy. Otto's not often been happy; the last time was (I imagine) with Mary-Alice, before his mother ruined things.

Maybe it wouldn't have lasted. Otto has a self-destructive streak, and he's possessive and selfish. Almost certainly high maintenance, and definitely in need of constant ego-stroking. And god help you if he perceives a slight against him, or (worse) betrayal.

I love that scene.

Mary Alice in that story stuck by him right to the end. No matter how verbally abusive he got, no matter how nasty he was, she defended him to the last. I really felt sorry for her.

She remembered who he was. And, yeah, I feel sorry for her, too. For them both, in a way, at least in that context. The scene in Year One where Otto's mother finds out about Mary-Alice is pretty painful.

The Mary Alice thing never became an actual relationship in this mini. Unlike in Unlimited #3, where he actually dated and got engaged to her, before his mother ruined it all.

I think his father was worse in this one though. He was going to beat little Otto with his belt. Whereas in Unlimited #3, he just hurled verbal abuse at Otto.

Another difference is that in Unlimited, Mary shows nothing but contempt for Torbert (talk about a loveless marriage), whereas in Year One, she has a definitely blind spot emotionally -- she defends Otto against Torbert, but still thinks of him as a "simple, beautiful man" and keeps his picture up after his death.

In both cases, it's a pretty poisonous atomosphere for a kid to grow up in.

In his official backstory, by that I mean Unlimited #3, he was very unpopular among the students. Some of them even quit when he was appointed head of the science club:

I remember that. B) Doesn't mean the teachers didn't like him, though.

But he did graduate at the top of his class. A true genius indeed. But as a student, he was very quiet. Like Peter Parker, he was the quiet, 4 eyed science geek with no friends, and that made him a target for bullies. Just like Peter.

Yep. Just like Peter.

Btw, what's the mopey Ock pic from?? I don't recognise it off hand.

It's from that Fantastic Four story, where Reed's baby is dying. After the arms attack the Fantasticar (oh, cripes, Reed, what the heck kind of name is that?!) they fight Reed as well, and when Reed looks around to see what's happened to Ock, Ock's just sitting there on the roof of a nearby building looking like he's out of it. Reed decides that he has to subdue the arms quickly, before Ock snaps out of his fugue and takes control; Reed's theory is that Ock is subconsiously controlling the arms and that this will bring back the "Doctor Octopus" personality to the front.

Sure enough, the arms start fighting Reed more energetically and intensely after that, and when Reed looks over again, Ock's quite "awake" and aware, and it's soon after that he dons the harness and proclaims himself to be Doc Ock once again.

Take that as you will. B)

 

[OctoHaz]

Oh, heads up, gang. Silver S has got a new Ock-pic up on dA: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/40878581/


t:

 

[The Joker]

Ooh, yes indeedy. That was a nice element to add to Otto's character. Especially in that first scene in the gym... with, in the end, the gym teacher telling Otto to "snap out of it" and he's just standing there with his broken glasses in his hand staring at the two bullies laughing.

Yep. Something poor old Peter was always suffering, his glasses getting broken. Though Uncle Ben didn't bite his head off about it when he got home, unlike poor lil' Otto with his bastard of a dad

Not intentionally bull****ting, though, and to be fair, Stunner hadn't known Otto very long at that point. More to the point, it's during this period that Ock's at his most... well, I hesitate to use the term "benign" but he definitely seems a heck of a lot calmer. Stunner made him happy. Otto's not often been happy; the last time was (I imagine) with Mary-Alice, before his mother ruined things.

I'm not denying that Stunner may very believe what she was saying. But she's gotta be looking at him thru rose coloured glasses. She can't be ignoring his extremely nasty history, or be ignorant to the fact that she's helping him save a dying man so he can have the distinguished pleasure of killing him himself. There is no nobility or decency in ANY of that.

Stunner may love Otto for his intelligence, his suaveness, and his loving tenderness towards her. But unlike Aunt May, she's not blind to what he is and what he does. I know she's blonde, but come on

Maybe it wouldn't have lasted. Otto has a self-destructive streak, and he's possessive and selfish. Almost certainly high maintenance, and definitely in need of constant ego-stroking. And god help you if he perceives a slight against him, or (worse) betrayal.

I always wondered how the Ock/Stunner relationship would have worked out. I always saw them splitting up eventually because Stunner saw Ock go too far with something, say another large mass murder scheme or something.

Octavius would try and say that the end justifies the means in order to acquire what he rightfully deserves. But Stunner, unlike Ock, is not by nature evil. It's not black and white, like good and bad. Octavius certainly has a small shred of decency and humanity, which we've discussed in depth. But overall he is a ruthless, evil man, who wouldn't think twice about murdering millions of innocents if it got him what he wanted or boosted his ego.

She remembered who he was. And, yeah, I feel sorry for her, too. For them both, in a way, at least in that context. The scene in Year One where Otto's mother finds out about Mary-Alice is pretty painful.

I think the scenes in both Year one and Unlimited #3 were pretty painful:

Emotional blackmail. His mother was a first class biotch!!

Another difference is that in Unlimited, Mary shows nothing but contempt for Torbert (talk about a loveless marriage), whereas in Year One, she has a definitely blind spot emotionally -- she defends Otto against Torbert, but still thinks of him as a "simple, beautiful man" and keeps his picture up after his death.

Well you are right, but we were shown ALOT more of the marriage in Year one, whereas in Unlimited #3 it was just a few brief panels to show how they treat their child differently.

And at the funeral, she was shown shedding tears for him.

In both cases, it's a pretty poisonous atomosphere for a kid to grow up in.

And they do say alot of criminals are products of their childhoods. Not all, but alot. But you can't lay all the blame on home life. In the end we make our own decisions.

I remember that. B) Doesn't mean the teachers didn't like him, though.

That's true. But then why would they dislike him?? He's every teacher's dream. A top class student. Even Peter Parker's teachers loved him, despite the fact he missed alot of classes because of his web slinging double life

It's from that Fantastic Four story, where Reed's baby is dying. After the arms attack the Fantasticar (oh, cripes, Reed, what the heck kind of name is that?!) they fight Reed as well, and when Reed looks around to see what's happened to Ock, Ock's just sitting there on the roof of a nearby building looking like he's out of it. Reed decides that he has to subdue the arms quickly, before Ock snaps out of his fugue and takes control; Reed's theory is that Ock is subconsiously controlling the arms and that this will bring back the "Doctor Octopus" personality to the front.

Ah, that's right. I remember now. Been ages since I've read that story.

Oh, heads up, gang. Silver S has got a new Ock-pic up on dA: http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/40878581/

Wowzers, that is so cool. Ock chillin' on a park bench. That girl cracks me up t:

Nice to see her love for the tentacled one is as strong as ever.

LOL! Look at this one guy's comment: "Y'know, oddly enough, one of the first random thoughts to ramble through my brain when I woke up this morning was "Y'know, I haven't seen any Doc Ock flavored fanart from the usual suspects." I think it was inspired by eating a chicken leg and "peeling the flesh from it's bones!" ...Your fault again, I believe."

 

[OctoHaz]

Yep. Something poor old Peter was always suffering, his glasses getting broken. Though Uncle Ben didn't bite his head off about it when he got home, unlike poor lil' Otto with his bastard of a dad

Uncle Ben, like Aunt May, was a prince of a man; that much is clear from what little we see of him.

Torbert... I think the best that's been said of Torbert is Unlimited #18, where the obit guy opines that Torbert "tried his best. But I hear that he wasn't the warmest individual." (No kidding!)

I'm not denying that Stunner may very believe what she was saying. But she's gotta be looking at him thru rose coloured glasses. She can't be ignoring his extremely nasty history, or be ignorant to the fact that she's helping him save a dying man so he can have the distinguished pleasure of killing him himself. There is no nobility or decency in ANY of that.

Stunner may love Otto for his intelligence, his suaveness, and his loving tenderness towards her. But unlike Aunt May, she's not blind to what he is and what he does. I know she's blonde, but come on

Heh. Love can really blind a person, and some women (men too, to be fair) can become very adroit at closing their eyes to the bad stuff. As you say, rose colored glasses. She could even have been thinking she could reform him, that all he really needed was the love of a good woman. As for the whole thing with Peter, well... it's pretty clear, as I recall, that she doesn't take costume conflicts very seriously:

Of course, Otto's death likely opened her eyes real good, but that hadn't happened yet.

I always wondered how the Ock/Stunner relationship would have worked out. I always saw them splitting up eventually because Stunner saw Ock go too far with something, say another large mass murder scheme or something.

Octavius would try and say that the end justifies the means in order to acquire what he rightfully deserves. But Stunner, unlike Ock, is not by nature evil. It's not black and white, like good and bad. Octavius certainly has a small shred of decency and humanity, which we've discussed in depth. But overall he is a ruthless, evil man, who wouldn't think twice about murdering millions of innocents if it got him what he wanted or boosted his ego.

I could see that happening, and Stunner trying to stop him... and we already know how Otto reacts to betrayal. To spin another scenario (though it could be melded into yours, now that I think of it), try this. Stunner's beautiful, energetic, vivacious... and she would have been bound to attract the attention of someone other than Otto before too long. And while I'm not saying she'd necessarily cheat on Otto, but she's not used to men finding her attractive or coming after her.

Besides being paranoid and selfish, I think Otto's got a self-loathing streak somewhere in there, at least where women are concerned, and I could see how he could very easily misinterpret even an innocent situation...

It'd be Spider-Man meets Othello, with tentacles. What was that about borrowing from the greats? B)

*snaps fingers at Marvel* Hey, you guys, get to work! Chop chop!

I think the scenes in both Year one and Unlimited #3 were pretty painful:

Agreed, though somehow the sight (in Year One) of his mother physically attacking him along with the verbal onslaught always gets to me. (Not to mention the fact that she's a good deal nastier in Year One.) Otto looks utterly bewildered.

Abuse comes in so many forms.

Well you are right, but we were shown ALOT more of the marriage in Year one, whereas in Unlimited #3 it was just a few brief panels to show how they treat their child differently.

And at the funeral, she was shown shedding tears for him.

True, that. And, huh, I never noticed the tears 'til you pointed them out. Interesting.

And they do say alot of criminals are products of their childhoods. Not all, but alot. But you can't lay all the blame on home life. In the end we make our own decisions.

Absolutely. Hell, I used to know a guy whose father was about as much of a bastard as Torbert -- to the point of regularly telling his son he was fat and ugly and no woman would ever want him. Definitely didn't turn out criminal, though; probably one of the nicest guys I've ever met.

People make their own choices, and other people influence 'em, and there's never an easy answer for this sort of thing. B)

Wowzers, that is so cool. Ock chillin' on a park bench. That girl cracks me up t:

Nice to see her love for the tentacled one is as strong as ever.

Ock-devotion never dies. At best, it hibernates. B)

LOL! Look at this one guy's comment: "Y'know, oddly enough, one of the first random thoughts to ramble through my brain when I woke up this morning was "Y'know, I haven't seen any Doc Ock flavored fanart from the usual suspects." I think it was inspired by eating a chicken leg and "peeling the flesh from it's bones!" ...Your fault again, I believe."

*snap snap snap!* t:

 

[The Joker]

Uncle Ben, like Aunt May, was a prince of a man

Aunt May was a prince of a man?? t:

Torbert... I think the best that's been said of Torbert is Unlimited #18, where the obit guy opines that Torbert "tried his best. But I hear that he wasn't the warmest individual." (No kidding!)

Torbert was the real old fashioned father regarding his son. "Be a man, stand up for yourself. Real men get their hands dirty, they don't bury themselves in books" etc.

That type of ridiculous thinking.

Heh. Love can really blind a person, and some women (men too, to be fair) can become very adroit at closing their eyes to the bad stuff. As you say, rose colored glasses.

Bonnie and Clyde, Fred and Rose West, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley. All classic examples of villainous couples.

The latter two are infamous over here in Europe. The Wests for example were involved in sex crimes. Rose was ultimately doing it to please Fred, or so she tried to claim.

And of course, there's Harley Quinn doing it all for her lovin' puddin' the Joker.

She could even have been thinking she could reform him, that all he really needed was the love of a good woman.

Possibly. I certainly think she believed she could tame him.

As for the whole thing with Peter, well... it's pretty clear, as I recall, that she doesn't take costume conflicts very seriously:

That was a great sequence. There was definitely a tom boy streak in Stunner.

But yes, your point is clear there. She had little regard for Spider-Man. She didn't understand why Ock was so obsessed with getting this victory over him.

Of course, Otto's death likely opened her eyes real good, but that hadn't happened yet.

And she was still willing to let him die so Otto could live. And when that failed, she offered herself as a replacement.

Now there's devotion for you.

I could see that happening, and Stunner trying to stop him... and we already know how Otto reacts to betrayal. To spin another scenario (though it could be melded into yours, now that I think of it), try this. Stunner's beautiful, energetic, vivacious... and she would have been bound to attract the attention of someone other than Otto before too long. And while I'm not saying she'd necessarily cheat on Otto, but she's not used to men finding her attractive or coming after her.

Indeed. Though it would strongly depend on who the man was. He'd have to be something special. As you recall she seems to have little regard for most men in general. Remember how she trashed the bar with all the men in it??

"Just as I suspected, losers one and all".

Besides being paranoid and selfish, I think Otto's got a self-loathing streak somewhere in there, at least where women are concerned, and I could see how he could very easily misinterpret even an innocent situation...

Very true.

Though I've yet to see him associate with a woman who is of no use to him at all. Mary Alice does not count as she is pre Doctor Octopus

It'd be Spider-Man meets Othello, with tentacles. What was that about borrowing from the greats? B)

*snaps fingers at Marvel* Hey, you guys, get to work! Chop chop!

LOL! I'd be all for it. Anything that tries something new and interesting with a character. Something that is of benefit to the character. And it's definitely a side to Ock I'd like to see explored.

He is the master of betrayl, but how would he feel if he was betrayed by someone he trusted??

Agreed, though somehow the sight (in Year One) of his mother physically attacking him along with the verbal onslaught always gets to me. (Not to mention the fact that she's a good deal nastier in Year One.) Otto looks utterly bewildered.

Abuse comes in so many forms.

His mother in Year One looked so much more frail than in Unlimited. Forgive me for saying this, but his mother in Unlimited came off as a fat, lazy biotch, who would say anything to make Otto be by her side.

She was so casual when he confronted her over dating another man. "Why not?? Surely you didn't think I was going to spend the rest of my life alone. I'm certainly entitled to a little fun and happiness".

Yeah, so is your son you selfish old bag.

Absolutely. Hell, I used to know a guy whose father was about as much of a bastard as Torbert -- to the point of regularly telling his son he was fat and ugly and no woman would ever want him. Definitely didn't turn out criminal, though; probably one of the nicest guys I've ever met.

There you go. You can't blame your mistakes on your parents. You make your own choices.

Btw, your friend's dad sounds like a real bastard.

People make their own choices, and other people influence 'em, and there's never an easy answer for this sort of thing. B)

Well, that is somewhat the case with Octavius. Alot of what he is or the way he thinks does stem from how he was raised. His mother was constantly telling him how great he was. His father would tell him a man is measured by his strength and power.

These are the little seeds that Octavius watered and grew inside him. Finally being unleashed after that lab accident.

Ock-devotion never dies. At best, it hibernates. B)

Ain't that the truth t:

 

[OctoHaz]

Aunt May was a prince of a man?? t:

*throws an isotope at you*

Torbert was the real old fashioned father regarding his son. "Be a man, stand up for yourself. Real men get their hands dirty, they don't bury themselves in books" etc.

That type of ridiculous thinking.

Indeed. BP

Bonnie and Clyde, Fred and Rose West, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley. All classic examples of villainous couples.

The latter two are infamous over here in Europe. The Wests for example were involved in sex crimes. Rose was ultimately doing it to please Fred, or so she tried to claim.

And of course, there's Harley Quinn doing it all for her lovin' puddin' the Joker.

Ahh, Harley Quinn. Gotta love her and every bat in her belfry. B)

Possibly. I certainly think she believed she could tame him.

Hmm. Very possibly, yeah. Though (to misquote C.S. Lewis), Octavius is not a tame Octopus...

That was a great sequence. There was definitely a tom boy streak in Stunner.

But yes, your point is clear there. She had little regard for Spider-Man. She didn't understand why Ock was so obsessed with getting this victory over him.

It was all a game to her, one she'd never thought she'd be able to participate in, and now here she was, going toe to toe with one of the famous ones and kicking his webbed rear.

And she was still willing to let him die so Otto could live. And when that failed, she offered herself as a replacement.

Now there's devotion for you.

Otto was everything to her. Spider-Man was nothing to her. And while she never became anything near as corrupted as Otto (or his groupie Carolyn), the fact that she was willing to let someone else die for her beloved's sake is indicative that she wasn't exactly innocent, either. (Though of course she was very willing to step into the sacrificial role herself...)

Devotion indeed.

Indeed. Though it would strongly depend on who the man was. He'd have to be something special. As you recall she seems to have little regard for most men in general. Remember how she trashed the bar with all the men in it??

"Just as I suspected, losers one and all".

He'd have to be just good enough to make friends with. One could let Otto's own paranoia do the rest. In Othello, Desdemona did absolutely nothing improper, but Iago was still able to arrange things to make her seem an utter adulteress, at least to Othello, who had a nasty jealous streak.

Very true.

Though I've yet to see him associate with a woman who is of no use to him at all. Mary Alice does not count as she is pre Doctor Octopus

Though he did try to chat up Betty Brant, and he got peeved when she didn't want to talk to him. B)

LOL! I'd be all for it. Anything that tries something new and interesting with a character. Something that is of benefit to the character. And it's definitely a side to Ock I'd like to see explored.

He is the master of betrayl, but how would he feel if he was betrayed by someone he trusted??

Here's a man who doesn't give his trust out lightly. He's guarded, closed, more or less emotionally walled-off. He's been betrayed often enough that he feels perfectly justified in betraying others, and in general doesn't allow himself to need other people as anything other than tools. You know that Simon and Garfunkel song, "I am a Rock"? There you go.

People like this, good or evil, typically don't react well when the trust that they've so carefully parcelled out is broken. To say that Octavius would be hurt by Stunner betraying him is an understatement. And I'd be surprised if he didn't, in his anger and humiliation and pain, strike out in violence.

You think he was pissed when Peter unmasked publically? Hoo boy.

His mother in Year One looked so much more frail than in Unlimited. Forgive me for saying this, but his mother in Unlimited came off as a fat, lazy biotch, who would say anything to make Otto be by her side.

She was so casual when he confronted her over dating another man. "Why not?? Surely you didn't think I was going to spend the rest of my life alone. I'm certainly entitled to a little fun and happiness".

Yeah, so is your son you selfish old bag.

I still think his mother in Year One bore a passing resemblence to May Parker. B)

Both versions are selfish old bags. >B/

There you go. You can't blame your mistakes on your parents. You make your own choices.

Precisely.

Parental influences and odd quirks of his personality aside, Otto chose to live the life he's lived, and he continues to choose it. I think he'd be insulted by the notion that was not utterly in control of his own life; if asked, he'd likely claim that he could go straight if he wanted to... he simply does not want to. He enjoys what he's doing far too much.

Btw, your friend's dad sounds like a real bastard.

He was. Still is, far as I know.

Well, that is somewhat the case with Octavius. Alot of what he is or the way he thinks does stem from how he was raised. His mother was constantly telling him how great he was. His father would tell him a man is measured by his strength and power.

These are the little seeds that Octavius watered and grew inside him. Finally being unleashed after that lab accident.

Like an emotional and mental mushroom cloud. B)

New Ock pic from me! Been playing around with slightly more movie-style tentacles:

 

[OctoHaz]

Yay, there's a new "Boy Genius" too! http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/40931144/

(Silver's Clone Saga is the best ever. *nodnod*)

 

[The Joker]

Otto was everything to her. Spider-Man was nothing to her. And while she never became anything near as corrupted as Otto (or his groupie Carolyn), the fact that she was willing to let someone else die for her beloved's sake is indicative that she wasn't exactly innocent, either. (Though of course she was very willing to step into the sacrificial role herself...)

Devotion indeed.

Well, she had got a fondness for trashing public bars and beating up the customers I also recall her going a little nuts in Central Park, tossing trees around etc.

Her equivalent to a jog thru the park lol.

He'd have to be just good enough to make friends with. One could let Otto's own paranoia do the rest. In Othello, Desdemona did absolutely nothing improper, but Iago was still able to arrange things to make her seem an utter adulteress, at least to Othello, who had a nasty jealous streak.

To paraphrase Mr T, I pity the fool who makes Ock jealous t:

Though he did try to chat up Betty Brant, and he got peeved when she didn't want to talk to him. B)

LOL! I don't think he was trying to chat her up. It was more that he was pissed off that she had the nerve to ignore the great Dr Octopus:

Here's a man who doesn't give his trust out lightly. He's guarded, closed, more or less emotionally walled-off. He's been betrayed often enough that he feels perfectly justified in betraying others, and in general doesn't allow himself to need other people as anything other than tools. You know that Simon and Garfunkel song, "I am a Rock"? There you go.

People like this, good or evil, typically don't react well when the trust that they've so carefully parcelled out is broken. To say that Octavius would be hurt by Stunner betraying him is an understatement. And I'd be surprised if he didn't, in his anger and humiliation and pain, strike out in violence.

You think he was pissed when Peter unmasked publically? Hoo boy.

And that's exactly why I want to see more of his reaction to the unmasking [even though I hate the premise of the story]. I would particularly like to see him confront Aunt May, and vice versa. Since she knows all about him now too.

Parental influences and odd quirks of his personality aside, Otto chose to live the life he's lived, and he continues to choose it. I think he'd be insulted by the notion that was not utterly in control of his own life; if asked, he'd likely claim that he could go straight if he wanted to... he simply does not want to. He enjoys what he's doing far too much.

Octavius is well aware of the effects his parents had on him. If you recall in Web of Death and in Countdown, he mentions his parents. How his mother coddled and smothered him, while his father went to the other extreme.

Could Ock go straight?? Sure, after serving 1000 years of hard time for his crimes. Would he want to go straight?? No. Not in a million years. And here's why. No matter what, there would be something or someone he would encounter who would insult or be an insult or obstacle to his goals/genius.

And Ock being Ock, would not stand for that. To him, any violence or nastiness he enacts is justified because to him, he deserves whatever he wants.

Castro went into some detail too with this in the Sinister Six novels. I must scan some passages later. Basically he stated that Octavius sees people as nothing. Obstacles in his way. Stopping great men like him from achieving the power they deserve. The recognition he deserves. To put it bluntly, he really hates people.

Like an emotional and mental mushroom cloud. B)

Well, that's what he was. A ticking time bomb of rage and hate. The explosion removed his inhibitions and endowed him with a power to do whatever he wanted.

New Ock pic from me! Been playing around with slightly more movie-style tentacles:

That is slick

I see inspiration from the great Alfred Molina here. I like the harness design. And I really love the lab goggles.

Great pic OctoHaz.

Btw, have you ever tried to draw movie Ock's tentacles?? I bet they're a pain to draw.

Yay, there's a new "Boy Genius" too! http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/40931144/

(Silver's Clone Saga is the best ever. *nodnod*)

LMAO! t:

A baby Spidey. That is friggin' hilarious. Damn, I didn't know S was still updating Boy Genius. Last time we saw her, she said it would be on hiatus for several weeks due to her busy life.

I have ALOT of catching up to do.

Btw, don't Spidey and Otto make the perfect duo in these stories?? Otto is like the stuffy, pompous, arrogant kid, and Peter is the happy go lucky, mischevious kid.

They're hilarious together.

 

[OctoHaz]

Well, she had got a fondness for trashing public bars and beating up the customers I also recall her going a little nuts in Central Park, tossing trees around etc.

Her equivalent to a jog thru the park lol.

Stunner was always terribly exuberant, at least 'til Otto died. When you see her afterward, she's deadly serious (unsurprisingly).

LOL! I don't think he was trying to chat her up. It was more that he was pissed off that she had the nerve to ignore the great Dr Octopus:

No one talks when Octopus talks. Unless he wants them to, and then you'd better not ignore him! B) Raging egotist that he is.

And that's exactly why I want to see more of his reaction to the unmasking [even though I hate the premise of the story]. I would particularly like to see him confront Aunt May, and vice versa. Since she knows all about him now too.

I'm right with you there. Here's hoping that we'll see something like that in an upcoming Spider-Man title. I doubt it'll happen during Civil War, but there's plenty of time for afterwards. Ock has a long memory, after all.

Octavius is well aware of the effects his parents had on him. If you recall in Web of Death and in Countdown, he mentions his parents. How his mother coddled and smothered him, while his father went to the other extreme.

...And then he breaks off, pondering how he's getting "alarmingly reflective" lately.

Could Ock go straight?? Sure, after serving 1000 years of hard time for his crimes.

Details, details. B) And, anyway, to consider things from a more cynical angle, he's brilliant enough that it's not completely out of the question for some government agency to cut a deal -- an under-the-counter pardon in exchange for the use of his skills. However...

Would he want to go straight?? No. Not in a million years. And here's why. No matter what, there would be something or someone he would encounter who would insult or be an insult or obstacle to his goals/genius.

And Ock being Ock, would not stand for that. To him, any violence or nastiness he enacts is justified because to him, he deserves whatever he wants.

...There's that. Eventually and inevitably, Otto would turn on his employers. It might be a while before it happens -- if the research was particularly fascinating, the resources given sufficiently expansive, and his ego appropriately stroked -- but eventually he'll get up to his usual shenanigans.

Castro went into some detail too with this in the Sinister Six novels. I must scan some passages later. Basically he stated that Octavius sees people as nothing. Obstacles in his way. Stopping great men like him from achieving the power they deserve. The recognition he deserves. To put it bluntly, he really hates people.

That's pretty much how I see it, too. Oh, and speaking of Castro, I put in an order for the Sinister Six Combo yesterday through Amazon.com. B) B) B) So it will be mine sometime in the near future, huzzah!

Spoiler

Also, have you read Down These Mean Streets by Keith A. Decandido? Some good Ock stuff in there (despite a quibble I had with some aspect of characterization and the massive hint of 'to-be-continued').

That is slick

I see inspiration from the great Alfred Molina here. I like the harness design. And I really love the lab goggles.

Great pic OctoHaz.

Thanks! B) Yes, lots of Molina inspirado (inspir-otto, heh) there. The look of the movie tentacles is just too damn nice.

Btw, have you ever tried to draw movie Ock's tentacles?? I bet they're a pain to draw.

Oh god yes. I made a stab at it a week or so ago, playing the DVD on my computer and freezing it at points to sketch. They're extremely intricate, even after watching them carefully to see how they move, how the outer 'fingers' pull back to use the smaller ones, and etc.

A baby Spidey. That is friggin' hilarious. Damn, I didn't know S was still updating Boy Genius. Last time we saw her, she said it would be on hiatus for several weeks due to her busy life.

I have ALOT of catching up to do.

Btw, don't Spidey and Otto make the perfect duo in these stories?? Otto is like the stuffy, pompous, arrogant kid, and Peter is the happy go lucky, mischevious kid.

They're hilarious together.

She's been updating 'em again since... the start of fall, I believe. They're all in the second grade now, awwwww. Otto and Peter really do make a classic duo, you're right about that, especially with Otto playing the straight man. I also love how she imagines the Marvel characters as kids. Her lil'Norman/Green Goblin's perfect -- just a little bastard on a skateboard, bwahaha. B)

 

[OctoHaz]

More Octopus-themed artwork from yours truly. In this case, a cleaned-up work doodle:

Have I mentioned recently how much fun it is to draw this bastard? B)

 

[The Joker]

Stunner was always terribly exuberant, at least 'til Otto died. When you see her afterward, she's deadly serious (unsurprisingly).

You know she tried to kill Kaine later on after Ock's death. Nearly succeeded too until Spider-Man stopped her.

No one talks when Octopus talks. Unless he wants them to, and then you'd better not ignore him! B) Raging egotist that he is.

You're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't with Ock. Don't ignore him, but don't say the wrong thing to him either. And never EVER speak when he's speaking hee hee.

I'm right with you there. Here's hoping that we'll see something like that in an upcoming Spider-Man title. I doubt it'll happen during Civil War, but there's plenty of time for afterwards. Ock has a long memory, after all.

Unless they do a mind wipe, which is very likely.

...And then he breaks off, pondering how he's getting "alarmingly reflective" lately.

Ah, these scans are a thing of beauty and a joy forever. I love the whole rainy background to this sequence. It was beautiful. Bagley rocks.

Now then, Otto says "Do you remind me of a part of myself that was lost long ago in the explosion that transformed Otto Octavius into the creature the media calls Doctor Octopus??"

Yes Otto, that is certainly the reason. And as he also says, it is possible that some of his decency and humanity was lost due to his parents harsh upbringing of him.

So many factors contributing to make a truly great villain. There is many layers to Doctor Octopus. And my fav part of all, the Peter/Otto parrallel. I love it.

Details, details. B) And, anyway, to consider things from a more cynical angle, he's brilliant enough that it's not completely out of the question for some government agency to cut a deal -- an under-the-counter pardon in exchange for the use of his skills. However...

Oh I'm sure the goverment could arrange something like that. And I'm also sure there would be a public outrage. Psychopathic terrorist and super villain released by the goverment.

Wouldn't that be nice

...There's that. Eventually and inevitably, Otto would turn on his employers. It might be a while before it happens -- if the research was particularly fascinating, the resources given sufficiently expansive, and his ego appropriately stroked -- but eventually he'll get up to his usual shenanigans.

No doubt Ock would take full advantage/use of whatever resources he was supplied with. But once something outlives its usefullness to him, then he disposes of it.

Just ask the rest of the Six lol.

That's pretty much how I see it, too. Oh, and speaking of Castro, I put in an order for the Sinister Six Combo yesterday through Amazon.com. B) B) B) So it will be mine sometime in the near future, huzzah!

Congratulations

Prepare for a mind blowingly good read, with your fav tentacled villain in top villainous form, being used to his full potential.

Spoiler

Also, have you read Down These Mean Streets by Keith A. Decandido? Some good Ock stuff in there (despite a quibble I had with some aspect of characterization and the massive hint of 'to-be-continued').

Is that the story about the drugs??

Oh god yes. I made a stab at it a week or so ago, playing the DVD on my computer and freezing it at points to sketch. They're extremely intricate, even after watching them carefully to see how they move, how the outer 'fingers' pull back to use the smaller ones, and etc.

I salute anyone who tries to draw them. They are so detailed its unreal. Its one of the reasons why his clock tower poster looks so cool. They have all the little details of him there.

Best superhero movie teaser poster EVER!!!

She's been updating 'em again since... the start of fall, I believe. They're all in the second grade now, awwwww. Otto and Peter really do make a classic duo, you're right about that, especially with Otto playing the straight man. I also love how she imagines the Marvel characters as kids. Her lil'Norman/Green Goblin's perfect -- just a little bastard on a skateboard, bwahaha. B)

Goody.

I bumped her thread in the Fan Art forum, just to let people know its still going.

I gotta say, I really like her kid version of Venom. He's like a little meat head psycho lol.

More Octopus-themed artwork from yours truly. In this case, a cleaned-up work doodle:

White armani Ock =

I loves it. Well done again.

Have I mentioned recently how much fun it is to draw this bastard? B)

I'll bet. Have I mentioned how much fun it is to see these works of art?? And that I save every single one of them to look at again and again whenever I feel like it

Btw, thank you for the continuing stimulating conversation OctoHaz. Its a rare thing to see in the villain fan threads these days.

 

[J. J. Jameson]

More Octopus-themed artwork from yours truly. In this case, a cleaned-up work doodle:

Have I mentioned recently how much fun it is to draw this bastard? B)

Nice work! I assume you use photoshop. If so, how do you make it so your lines don't get covered up? I'm sorta new to photoshop.

 

[OctoHaz]

You know she tried to kill Kaine later on after Ock's death. Nearly succeeded too until Spider-Man stopped her.

*nod* As I recall, after that she pretty much fades away until Ock's ressurection. I suppose someone (Carolyn) took her out of the VR setup (deciding she wasn't needed as Stunner anymore?) and she goes back to living a very dull, depressing mundane life... until Carolyn calls her back again to find out about the theft of Otto's body.

You're damned if you do, and you're damned if you don't with Ock. Don't ignore him, but don't say the wrong thing to him either. And never EVER speak when he's speaking hee hee.

No one ever said that Otto Octavius was a reasonable man. B)

Unless they do a mind wipe, which is very likely.

I reeeeeeeeally hope they figure out some more creative and less goofy way of resolving that. B) I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they will.

Ah, these scans are a thing of beauty and a joy forever. I love the whole rainy background to this sequence. It was beautiful. Bagley rocks.

That he does. I adore Bagley's artwork.

Now then, Otto says "Do you remind me of a part of myself that was lost long ago in the explosion that transformed Otto Octavius into the creature the media calls Doctor Octopus??"

Yes Otto, that is certainly the reason. And as he also says, it is possible that some of his decency and humanity was lost due to his parents harsh upbringing of him.

So many factors contributing to make a truly great villain. There is many layers to Doctor Octopus. And my fav part of all, the Peter/Otto parrallel. I love it.

Me, too. B) It's a shame that we don't get to see more of that contemplative side; it seemed to vanish once he'd been resurrected, along with those memories.

Oh I'm sure the goverment could arrange something like that. And I'm also sure there would be a public outrage. Psychopathic terrorist and super villain released by the goverment.

Wouldn't that be nice

You mean like what's happening now in Civil War? Heh.

No doubt Ock would take full advantage/use of whatever resources he was supplied with. But once something outlives its usefullness to him, then he disposes of it.

Just ask the rest of the Six lol.

Heh.

Ultimately, trying to make use of Otto Octavius is a chancy thing at best. No matter how one does it. It's never a question of if Octavius will turn, but when. One could have contingencies in place to handle such a situation, of course, but eventually you reach a point of diminishing returns where, frankly, it'd be much more cost-effective to just get someone less dangerous, even if they're less brilliant. B)

Vaguely related sidenote: Early in the comic Exiles (#20-22), the main characters enter a parallel world where most of the planet's population, powered and otherwise, has been contaminated and changed into aggressively nasty cyber-abominations called Vi-Locks. Only a handful are left to try to stem the tide, and among those is that dimension's version of Doc Ock, tentacles and all. He's surprisingly quiet -- doesn't say a single word, in fact, though his presence is quite visible. Definitely several steps away from 616 Otto.

Another version shows up in Exiles #35-37, in which the Fantastic Four are only just getting their powers (and Thing goes on a savage Hulk-like rampage). He's pre-tentacles there but he's much more characteristically eloquent and irritable.

Oh, and on the subject of betrayals and backstabbings, I got to indulge in a bit of that on MarvelMUCK just last night. His need to hold Ryker's Island hostage is nearing its end, and he'll soon have no need of his allies. I always know when I'm being appropriately Ock-nasty when the back of my mind starts muttering, gleefully, "Oh you bastard." B)

Iron Man played right into his hands, too. It was lovely. ]B)

Congratulations

Prepare for a mind blowingly good read, with your fav tentacled villain in top villainous form, being used to his full potential.

*beam* I'm very much looking forward to it.

Is that the story about the drugs??

That's the one. B)

I salute anyone who tries to draw them. They are so detailed its unreal. Its one of the reasons why his clock tower poster looks so cool. They have all the little details of him there.

Best superhero movie teaser poster EVER!!!

Agreed! Ought to see about getting that for our wall sometime. B)

I gotta say, I really like her kid version of Venom. He's like a little meat head psycho lol.

Heehee, yeah. All her designs are great, really. Both adorable and apt.

White armani Ock =

I loves it. Well done again.

Thanks! BD

I'll bet. Have I mentioned how much fun it is to see these works of art?? And that I save every single one of them to look at again and again whenever I feel like it

I do the same -- save Ock-pictures to my computer; got a whole folder dedicated just for Ock-pics. And tons favorite'd on my dA account.

Here's another for the evening, one that's mirrored in my "scraps" folder. More messing around with ideas for RP-Ock's upgrade, plus thinking on how the movie harness would look walking around detached from its master. (Answer: creepy as heck. )

Btw, thank you for the continuing stimulating conversation OctoHaz. Its a rare thing to see in the villain fan threads these days.

No thanks needed; I'm having a grand ol' time here. Always good chatting with other aficion-ottos. t:

 

[OctoHaz]

Nice work! I assume you use photoshop. If so, how do you make it so your lines don't get covered up? I'm sorta new to photoshop.

Thanks for the compliment!

In regards to the coloring question, it's one of the first tricks I learned in Photoshop, years ago, and it's all to do with layers.

When I first open the scanned picture, it's just one layer, labelled "Background". Nothing goes behind that, so first thing I go to Layer->Duplicate Layer (copying the lineart into another layer called "Background copy" by default), and then select the background layer and delete it (Layer->Delete should do it).

In the layers window in Photoshop there's a drop-down box that defaults to "Normal" which I then change to "Multiply".

After that, I go Layer->New->Layer and drag that to be positioned underneath the lineart and put all my color into that layer (and sometimes others if I'm wanting to experiment with shading and the like).

Because the lineart layer's on top and set to "Multiply", the color shows through where the lineart's white and yet doesn't cover any of the black lines.

Hope this helps. It certainly did me, back when I learned 'bout it.

 

[The Joker]

*nod* As I recall, after that she pretty much fades away until Ock's ressurection. I suppose someone (Carolyn) took her out of the VR setup (deciding she wasn't needed as Stunner anymore?) and she goes back to living a very dull, depressing mundane life... until Carolyn calls her back again to find out about the theft of Otto's body.

Probably. Though I always found it strange that Angelina was surprised to see Carolyn wearing Otto's tentacles when Carolyn accosted her in the video store.

Surely she must have heard of a female Ock running around.

I reeeeeeeeally hope they figure out some more creative and less goofy way of resolving that. B) I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they will.

I always expect the worst off them now. That way its not such a let down when it happens.

I hope they surprise me and do something a little more creative. I really do. But somehow I have the feeling there's a better chance it will start raining $100 notes outside.

Me, too. B) It's a shame that we don't get to see more of that contemplative side; it seemed to vanish once he'd been resurrected, along with those memories.

Indeed. I can't remember the last time with saw some kind of deep emotional depth to a Spidey villain. Ock's recollection to his past in Countdown was probably the last time I saw it.

A little exploration into a villain's psyche goes a long way in a story. I don't expect it in every story. That would be pointless. But every once in a while lets see something new and interesting about the villain.

And not something stupid like what they've been doing with Norman Osborn in the last few years.

You mean like what's happening now in Civil War? Heh.

Exactly. The public complains about the superheros being dangerous, but say nothing about having super powered criminals running loose thanks to the goverment??

Yeeeesh.

Ultimately, trying to make use of Otto Octavius is a chancy thing at best. No matter how one does it. It's never a question of if Octavius will turn, but when. One could have contingencies in place to handle such a situation, of course, but eventually you reach a point of diminishing returns where, frankly, it'd be much more cost-effective to just get someone less dangerous, even if they're less brilliant. B)

Well Octavius and Bruce Banner are the most knowledgable minds in the field of radiation in the Marvel universe. Even great scientists like Reed Richards and Victor Von Doom have turned to them for their expertise in the past.

Sometimes, if you want the best, you gotta take some risks.

Vaguely related sidenote: Early in the comic Exiles (#20-22), the main characters enter a parallel world where most of the planet's population, powered and otherwise, has been contaminated and changed into aggressively nasty cyber-abominations called Vi-Locks. Only a handful are left to try to stem the tide, and among those is that dimension's version of Doc Ock, tentacles and all. He's surprisingly quiet -- doesn't say a single word, in fact, though his presence is quite visible. Definitely several steps away from 616 Otto.

He.......he has a moustache

LOL! Oh my god that just looks so wrong. Its amazing what a difference a bit of facial hair can make. Wow, he just looks so different.

Whip out the razor Otto and shave it off man. Like the long black hair, this is not for you.

Another version shows up in Exiles #35-37, in which the Fantastic Four are only just getting their powers (and Thing goes on a savage Hulk-like rampage). He's pre-tentacles there but he's much more characteristically eloquent and irritable.

Well they look a little better. Though the bottom one looks really young. I don't go much for alternate universe stuff [except Ult Spider-Man]. Very interesting pics though.

Really love the "You should talk, Doc" comment there regarding being psychotic lol.

Oh, and on the subject of betrayals and backstabbings, I got to indulge in a bit of that on MarvelMUCK just last night. His need to hold Ryker's Island hostage is nearing its end, and he'll soon have no need of his allies. I always know when I'm being appropriately Ock-nasty when the back of my mind starts muttering, gleefully, "Oh you bastard." B)

Iron Man played right into his hands, too. It was lovely. ]B)

Heh, so how many poor saps are you planning on betraying, and more importantly do the players know they're gonna be suckered??

That's the one. B)

I've heard of it, but I've had trouble finding it. Is it worth the read??

Agreed! Ought to see about getting that for our wall sometime. B)

Oh my god girl, get that poster on your wall post haste. You could just sit all day and admire it. I kid you not

I do the same -- save Ock-pictures to my computer; got a whole folder dedicated just for Ock-pics. And tons favorite'd on my dA account.

Yeah, I've got loads in my photobucket account. So many in fact, I had to open another one.

Speaking of Ock pics, I was nosing around on Deviantart for Ock pics, and came across this stunning little piece:

That just rocks my socks. I love how Spidey's mask is in the background with Ock reflected in his eye lens.

I've noticed there is a LARGE community of Ock fans over at Deviantart. Good to know there's so many artists who enjoy drawing the tentacled one.

Here's another for the evening, one that's mirrored in my "scraps" folder. More messing around with ideas for RP-Ock's upgrade, plus thinking on how the movie harness would look walking around detached from its master. (Answer: creepy as heck. )

You know what that looks like?? A design sketch Octavius did for his tentacle's harness. And that makes it really cool. The little notes beside the pic make it look like his design sketches.

Very, very cool.

No thanks needed; I'm having a grand ol' time here. Always good chatting with other aficion-ottos.

I'm very glad to hear it.

A pity you were not around back in early 2004. Wow, we had some some discussions and wild excitement about Ock, with the Spider-Man 2 in the making.

That was a magical time. We had some fun.

 

[J. J. Jameson]

Thanks for the compliment!

In regards to the coloring question, it's one of the first tricks I learned in Photoshop, years ago, and it's all to do with layers.

When I first open the scanned picture, it's just one layer, labelled "Background". Nothing goes behind that, so first thing I go to Layer->Duplicate Layer (copying the lineart into another layer called "Background copy" by default), and then select the background layer and delete it (Layer->Delete should do it).

In the layers window in Photoshop there's a drop-down box that defaults to "Normal" which I then change to "Multiply".

After that, I go Layer->New->Layer and drag that to be positioned underneath the lineart and put all my color into that layer (and sometimes others if I'm wanting to experiment with shading and the like).

Because the lineart layer's on top and set to "Multiply", the color shows through where the lineart's white and yet doesn't cover any of the black lines.

Hope this helps. It certainly did me, back when I learned 'bout it.

Thanks! I'll be sure to try it out!

That's awesome! One of the best Ock pics I've ever seen!

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

^ that is one of the best ock pictures ever.

 

[Arcturus]

Hey, here's a queston.

Let's say Ock survived, and if he ever does come back, what kind of story can you think would be played out? Leader of the 6, something else?

 

[The Joker]

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9648811&postcount=2676
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9649565&postcount=2677
http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9649823&postcount=2678

t:

Oh, and I'm glad you guys liked the pic.

 

[Arcturus]

Ah yes, old grounds, how i've forgotten.

 

[OctoHaz]

Hey, Doc, nice avatar. B)

Probably. Though I always found it strange that Angelina was surprised to see Carolyn wearing Otto's tentacles when Carolyn accosted her in the video store.

Surely she must have heard of a female Ock running around.

Yeah, she was rather flabbergasted, wasn't she? Hmm. Maybe she'd been avoiding the news.

Carolyn's such a twisted little cookie. Massive daddy issues, plus the whole thing with the Master Programmer avatar. She seemed to get reeeeeeally attached to it. Okay, sure, makes sense because it turned out that the MP was based off Octavius memories and personality, but looked like Carolyn wanted to get close to the AI in a way she'd never tried to with Octavius. Hmmmmm!

Heh. Carolyn and Stunner are both such massive fangirls. BD

Indeed. I can't remember the last time with saw some kind of deep emotional depth to a Spidey villain. Ock's recollection to his past in Countdown was probably the last time I saw it.

Too bad that it was so inaccurate. Not only that, but the whole bit about his father dying at home just rang false to me. Not because it didn't jibe with established history (which it did), or because I couldn't believe that Mary would leave her beloved five year old son alone in the house with a dying man (which seems very unlike Mary Octavius) but because it seemed rather pointlessly shocking. Otto's childhood was traumatic enough without needing him to see his father's dead body like that.

That and the bit at the end, where Otto begs Spidey not to kill him (wtf?) were the two parts of that story that felt extremely wrong. B/

A little exploration into a villain's psyche goes a long way in a story. I don't expect it in every story. That would be pointless. But every once in a while lets see something new and interesting about the villain.

Yes, exactly. Just a little bit every once and again to remind the reader that there's a person behind the persona. One thing I've always liked about Marvel is that its villains always seemed more three-dimensional that way.

And not something stupid like what they've been doing with Norman Osborn in the last few years.

I'm still way behind on recent developments; I'm still not sure why he isn't dead anymore. B/

Exactly. The public complains about the superheros being dangerous, but say nothing about having super powered criminals running loose thanks to the goverment??

Yeeeesh.

Who says the public knows about it?

Well Octavius and Bruce Banner are the most knowledgable minds in the field of radiation in the Marvel universe. Even great scientists like Reed Richards and Victor Von Doom have turned to them for their expertise in the past.

Sometimes, if you want the best, you gotta take some risks.

I find it amusing that the two greatest experts in radiation are so deeply unstable. B)

He.......he has a moustache

LOL! Oh my god that just looks so wrong. Its amazing what a difference a bit of facial hair can make. Wow, he just looks so different.

Whip out the razor Otto and shave it off man. Like the long black hair, this is not for you.

LOL! Yeah, the hipster goatee is just... weird. Somehow, I get the image of him listening to jazz fusion. (pun unintended, I swear)

Again, one just has to wonder at the differences in life history, where the road forked.

Well they look a little better. Though the bottom one looks really young. I don't go much for alternate universe stuff [except Ult Spider-Man]. Very interesting pics though.

Really love the "You should talk, Doc" comment there regarding being psychotic lol.

Exiles is fun in light doses and works well for that. Most of the trips to parallel worlds are two or three issues each, so it's easy to read one and then set it aside for a bit. There's a third, somewhat more traditional Doc Ock appearance which involves one of the team (whose gone rogue) gathering a bunch of smart supervillains to figure out how to work the device that allows for the jumps. Ock's included, though really isn't impressed by the company or even especially interested in the project. So when Doom and Mandarin vaporize half the group, Ock decides to hell with it and leaves.

Heh, so how many poor saps are you planning on betraying, and more importantly do the players know they're gonna be suckered??

I'm pretty open about posting logs; I even called the one with that scene in it "Base Treachery" (http://www.lionking.org/~black/droctopus/Ock061006.txt though you'll have to scroll down past him dealing with poor naive Dark-Feather).

In a nutshell, he's sold out every member of his gathered allies (six in all) plus an entity called Nightshade that's decided to poke its nose into Otto's affairs. As I said, his time holding the prison is nearing its conclusion, and since the heroes have been a trifle slow in handling the situation, he's given them a hand. With luck, the Avengers will deal with the others, saving Otto the trouble (and, in the case of the Anachronism and Coil, probably quite a bit of effort); he himself is, of course, planning on making an escape as soon as the heroes come to rescue the prison.

Use and discard, in true Ockly fashion. It's all a massive, massive diversion, and nobody (except me, of course) knows what Otto's true motives are in all of this. B)

I've heard of it, but I've had trouble finding it. Is it worth the read??

The climax seemed to come and go a bit fast, and if the author doesn't produce the strongly hinted-at sequel I'll be quite disappointed, but in general a very enjoyable read. Proper respect shown to the villain, so I liked it despite a couple of quibbles I had (which the author seemed to recant later on in the book).

Speaking of Ock pics, I was nosing around on Deviantart for Ock pics, and came across this stunning little piece:

That just rocks my socks. I love how Spidey's mask is in the background with Ock reflected in his eye lens.

I have this one favorited on dA, but never noticed the mask in the background for some reason! B)

I've noticed there is a LARGE community of Ock fans over at Deviantart. Good to know there's so many artists who enjoy drawing the tentacled one.

Yeah, it always warms my heart to see a new Ock-pic.

You know what that looks like?? A design sketch Octavius did for his tentacle's harness. And that makes it really cool. The little notes beside the pic make it look like his design sketches.

Very, very cool.

Thanks. B) I'm not much of a technical artist -- what gets down on paper is never quite what I picture in my head, and doing stuff at work, without references, doesn't exactly help. But I do find myself thinking a lot about the qualities and particulars of Ock's arms, at least how in terms of the version I'm roleplaying.

And, yes, I scribble notes. So you can see where my brain's going:

A pity you were not around back in early 2004. Wow, we had some some discussions and wild excitement about Ock, with the Spider-Man 2 in the making.

Fashionably late, that's me. B) But better late than never, eh?

Thanks! I'll be sure to try it out!

You're welcome! B)

One more picture for the evening:

Battered, blooded, broken-nosed and black-eyed, Otto Octavius knows that he may have lost this particular battle, but he'll win the war. His ultimate victory is inevitable.

Mwa. Ha ha.