World Doc Ock's lair

[Silver S]

This here is the statue Ock sent me from the UK. Apparently it was only offered over there in the land of lephrechans and so it holds a special place in the Ock Ranks.

 

[The Joker]

Not just the land of the leprachauns,but the brits got it too.That's it.

I'm glad you like it.It would be a crime if my number 1 Ock fan girl was to go without it,or the great magazine which accompanied it

 

[Silver S]

If only I could have harnessed that sort of power as a child. :cough: Not that I would have blown people away with an atomic blast or anything.

I just love this page. BUUUUUUURN, baby, BUUUUUUURN.

Ah. The first and last time Ock copped a feel on Mary Alice. Or any woman, more than likely. Stunner and Carolyn don't count. Why? Because Stunner wasn't real and Carolyn would more than likely have let Otto be her own personal gyn, the ****. (I jest.) And if that's not enough, how about the failsafe: Because I said so.

 

[Silver S]

 

[Silver S]

 

[The Joker]

LOL! I love the OWNED caption there on that last panel Poor guy.Ock killed him,moved into his house,and stole his robe.Oh and smashed his TV too.Tsk tsk shame on you Otto.

A magnificent montage of scans there Silver

Ult Ock is so fond of impaling people in the chest with those tentacles.OWTCH!!!! Every time he murders,it's right thru the chest.

Btw is the Hype acting really wierd for anyone else??? First I couldn't see Silver's post with the mini statue,even when it said she made a post,it just wasn't there.Then I'm just browsing the forums,and suddenly I'm logged out.

Frickin wierd.

 

[Cullen]

I absolutely agree with you on it being wrong to mess with comic book origins. There are instances where things can be improved or there might be a necessity in doing so. This is not one of those cases. Doc Ock's actually villain origin (how he got his powers) was not that exciting, isn't any more exciting now, and doesn't need to be.

I'd approve of changing it in the way that I described having it in movies in my thread (which seems to be in a coma, currently). I'd use the harness design from 'Spider-Man 2,' keeping the concept of artificial intelligence guiding the arms but avoiding the "machine controlling the man" nonsense altogether. As I wrote at length, the harness would have a compact CPU attached to the spinal interface and the entire thing would be as close to indestructable as is within Octavius' means. If there's an "inhibitor chip" that keeps the A.I. from stealing Otto's brain, it's within the CPU with every level of safeguard there is. If there's one thing Octavius values, it's his brain, and I'm talking about the real Octavius, not the cuddly teddybear they had Alfred Molina play in the movie. He values his mind, so he protects it properly. No chips dangling out in the open where any kind impact or shock could damage it, period.
That's pretty much the extent to which I'd change anything, and that's not a character trait change at all, because if the true Dr. Octopus had that kind of technology at his disposal, that's what he'd do with it: protect his brain and make his machine as tough and versatile as possible.

Dunno about the whole "real Ock would protect his brain" thing. If the man was that concerned about his grey cells, he would have been fighting Spider-man in a protective suit by this time.

I think Ock is more of a "No will is greater than mine" type. It wouldn't occur to him at all that he could be dominated.

But that's me. I've been wrong before and no doubt will be again.

My thoughts are these:
1) Peter Parker is an idiot not to kill his worst enemies.
2) Peter Parker should never kill.

Paradoxical? No more than anything else in superhero fiction. If I was making my own characters (which I have), then it's fine for me to suggest or put in writing that they kill dangerous criminals, but it's never okay to change fundamental character traits and cross lines that were clearly laid out by the creators. Spider-Man doesn't kill, just like several other superheroes are never supposed to kill. For one thing, the naivete and lack of insight shared by Spider-Man, most of the X-Men, Daredevil, Superman, Batman, etc. keep the villains available for future storytelling. In fiction, the no-kill rule is practical and beneficial.

You could play it the same way they do with Spider-Man, where he absolutely refuses to kill (although at various points in Spider-Man history, more people seem to die from one cause or another than in Punisher comics), or they can do it like with Wolverine, where he's willing to kill in many cases but can't pull it off for whatever reason. Either way, good villains should be preserved and so should the essential values of a given character. Obviously it would be ridiculous if Spider-Man let himself be killed rather than resort to killing an enemy, but it's the job of the writer to keep that scenario from happening. That type of hero finds another way, period.

I remember the rationale given for the Batman killing in the Tim Burton movies, on the DVD special features; something along the lines of "times are such that he can't just drop them at the police station in a net." Oh really? Why not? Are the people who hold the screenwriters' leashes so dead set against keeping the Batman's methods non-lethal that they need to make the writers force a scenario where the Batman needs to kill or really, really wants to kill? Where is the lack of creative power here? What psychological dynamic is in play where the people making a movie or writing a story can't simply design the scenario so that there's another way to survive and thwart the bad guy? Feh... the idiocy of some people...

Anyway, I hope I've made some sense here regarding my stance on Spider-Man's policies on killing. For the sake of artistic integrity, he should never have to kill, regardless of how "realistic" it is or isn't. Trust me, I spend plenty of time arguing that killing is the proper course of action with regard to real life villains. And it's not a matter of what they "deserve." It's a matter of what the rest of society deserves and what can be done to accomodate it. I believe that society at large should be socialized (i.e. conditioned) to coexist as peacefully as possible, with a greater and more accurate awareness of the totality of human nature than exists today. The only thing that ever keeps me from saying "support the death penalty, you ignorant bastards!" is the incompetence and inherent failure of the criminal justice system. If you can't be sure of guilt, then you shouldn't kill the suspect. In fiction, however, it's different. The Batman pretty much always knows when someone is guilty eventually, because he does his research, has almost perfect instincts and tends to beat the truth out of people. That's a scenario where killing would be morally acceptable to me, because he'd know the truth, realize the danger the suspect poses to society, and definitely solves that problem. I would not be okay with the Batman himself killing, though, for reasons I've explained already. Spider-Man isn't nearly that good of a detective, but he tends to actually witness a lot of his enemies harming others, and his spider-sense alerts him to things that the police wouldn't intuitively know were going to happen or were happening. Spider-Man has a greater capacity for accurately determining guilt in a suspect, so he's another character that I'd criticize for not killing a proven threat if he was real. Since he isn't real, I criticize anyone who would suggest that he start killing.

Hell yeah on all of that. Although, with Batman, while I rather he didn't kill, I wouldn't kick tht much over it. That was how the character operated at his start, after all...

 

[Herr Logan]

Dunno about the whole "real Ock would protect his brain" thing. If the man was that concerned about his grey cells, he would have been fighting Spider-man in a protective suit by this time.

I think Ock is more of a "No will is greater than mine" type. It wouldn't occur to him at all that he could be dominated.

But that's me. I've been wrong before and no doubt will be again.

That's very true. In fact, you were wrong just earlier this evening. Good call.

Hell yeah on all of that. Although, with Batman, while I rather he didn't kill, I wouldn't kick tht much over it. That was how the character operated at his start, after all...

True. Like I said, there are certain character traits from various characters' early days I'm perfectly willing to have glossed over for the sake of better storytelling. Like the Wasp, for instance. Everything about the Wasp in the beginning was terrible. Wait... I still don't like the Wasp. Okay, Susan Storm of the Fantastic Four. The Invisible Woman is a lot more tolerable and useful than the Invisible Girl.
And then there's the Batman. I think he works better as a brilliant hypocrite, if only for the fact that, as I said before, a hero who doesn't kill gets to have many more supervillain battles, and that's good for the story in the long run.

 

[Silver Sable]

Btw is the Hype acting really wierd for anyone else??? First I couldn't see Silver's post with the mini statue,even when it said she made a post,it just wasn't there.Then I'm just browsing the forums,and suddenly I'm logged out.

Frickin wierd.[/quote]

I wouldn't say it's acting weird but it has been slow a little

 

[Cullen]

That's very true. In fact, you were wrong just earlier this evening. Good call.

Don't know how you knew about that, but boy, was I ever! The world isn't ready for that level of wrong, is all I have to say.

True. Like I said, there are certain character traits from various characters' early days I'm perfectly willing to have glossed over for the sake of better storytelling. Like the Wasp, for instance. Everything about the Wasp in the beginning was terrible. Wait... I still don't like the Wasp. Okay, Susan Storm of the Fantastic Four. The Invisible Woman is a lot more tolerable and useful than the Invisible Girl.

Oh yeah. Most true. I've read a few of those early FF and she does nothing for me as a character.

Which, sad to say, was a symptom of the time, but still...

And then there's the Batman. I think he works better as a brilliant hypocrite, if only for the fact that, as I said before, a hero who doesn't kill gets to have many more supervillain battles, and that's good for the story in the long run.

I prefer a less a--hole Batman. For instance, I liked the way he was portrayed in the animated seres and Batman Begins. Intense at times, driven at times, but still heroic.

 

[Herr Logan]

Don't know how you knew about that, but boy, was I ever! The world isn't ready for that level of wrong, is all I have to say.
Oh yeah. Most true. I've read a few of those early FF and she does nothing for me as a character.

Which, sad to say, was a symptom of the time, but still...

I prefer a less a--hole Batman. For instance, I liked the way he was portrayed in the animated seres and Batman Begins. Intense at times, driven at times, but still heroic.

When I say "brilliant hypocrite," I'm referring to his ethical code as a hero.

Think about it: he has sworn to do everything in his power to fight crime and protect Gotham City. If he was truly doing everything he could, the threat posed by any murderous member of his rogue's gallery would have been eliminated long ago.
Just considering a scenario where the Batman kills the Joker, Barbara Gordon wouldn't have been shot in her father's apartment, Jason Todd wouldn't have been brutally bludgeoned and blown up in the Middle East, and Sarah Essen wouldn't have been shot while saving helpless infants during 'No Man's Land.'
R'as Al Ghul would never be a threat again, leaving his fanatical followers without such a brilliant leader and vulnerable to arrest by legal authorities and crime fighters alike.

But as I stated before, the Batman's rogues gallery, just like any rogues gallery, keeps people coming back to read, and killing them off would be crippling the story. So the Batman's hypocrisy and irrational code of ethics is a beneficial discrepency and I prefer it that way for the sake of the story.

 

[The Joker]

Anyway......

Back to Doctor Octopus.I'd like to repost the scans Sym did for us:

See how Ock refuses to admit that he temporarily lost control of his tentacles?? Do you think he would EVER admit he was wrong or at fault???

His ego is that big

 

[SpideyLad]

What book is that from Doc?

 

[The Joker]

What book is that from Doc?

That my lad,is from the 1994 series Marvels,written by Kurt Busiek and painted by Alex Ross,which retold the death of Captain Stacy from the point of view of a man on the street,and the investigation into his death to see if Spider-Man was really responsible.

 

[Kraven]

Well, I thought I'd add some ultimate contributions to this thread, as it's too good of a thread to go more than 5 hours without a post. These will be from my favorite Ock arc in USM, Hollywood, and I thought I'd show my appreciation with a few pics.

 

[The Joker]

It's not your computer tom,it's the Hype.Been like this all week.Took me 5 minutes to send a private message

I love Ult Ock.He's such a bastard.I mean a real bastard.Even before he became Ock he was bad.An industrial spy in Oscorp,dabbling in illegal experiments with Norman.

Bad,bad man.

And as Ock,he's worse.

Those pics rock You can clearly see Alfred Molina's influence on Ock in that Hollywood arc.

 

[Silver S]

I love Ult Ock.He's such a bastard.I mean a real bastard.Even before he became Ock he was bad.An industrial spy in Oscorp,dabbling in illegal experiments with Norman.

Bad,bad man.

And as Ock,he's worse.

Those pics rock You can clearly see Alfred Molina's influence on Ock in that Hollywood arc.

That gets a girl hot.

 

[SpideyLad]

That my lad,is from the 1994 series Marvels,written by Kurt Busiek and painted by Alex Ross,which retold the death of Captain Stacy from the point of view of a man on the street,and the investigation into his death to see if Spider-Man was really responsible.

Thanks

I wouldn't mind getting that, I've read some great stuff about it

 

[The Joker]

A scene that was apparently cut from the movie here.Ock prowling the streets incognito.You can see the tips of his tentacles protruding from under his coat there:

Here's another rare pic from the movie.Ock reaches in for the precious tritium:

I don't think I've shown these in here before.If so,apologies.

 

[Silver Sable]

Thanks for posting the deleted scenes Ock and i'm truly stunned that you called your favorite villain a bastard lol

 

[The Joker]

Thanks for posting the deleted scenes Ock and i'm truly stunned that you called your favorite villain a bastard lol

But he is a bastard.That's why I love him.He doesn't care about anything or anyone except himself.He's a criminal genius,and has no problem killing anyone to get what he wants

See he even treats his fellow villains like crap

 

[Silver Sable]

All villains just care about themselves lol

 

[Silver Sable]

And get on AIM! I wanna talk to you!

J/k.I know you have computer problems

 

[The Joker]

All villains just care about themselves lol

Venom doesn't.He tries to protect innocents.

In fact he's teamed up with Spider-Man several times

 

[Silver Sable]

Well the majority of most villains are selfish and Venom only teamed up with Spidey b/c of Carnage