Doctor Who - Not a Hugging Type of Thread

[Scarecrow_King]

The best part of the episode was the realization that the crying kid was the Doctor in the same barn. That was awesome.

Like some people though, the ambiguity bothers me. About 3/4 of the way through the episode, I thought they were waiting to long to finally reveal the monster....but there wasn't one.

I also wonder if the soldier figure will come up later this season. It seemed like they were setting that up to be fairly important.

 

[TheUnknownX]

That episode man....It started of really creepy, and then it was just nothing.

 

[Spade]

Best episode so far, though not without its flaws. Moffat doesn't distinguish between ponderous and pretentious. There's still a lot of handwaving going on, and though I like world-building over monster-of-the-week, the story still feels too reliant on eureka moments and subtext that fall apart under scrutiny. On the bright side, Capaldi's Doctor is growing on me, Mackinnon's direction is top notch, and Lavelle's cinematography had some of the best use of bokeh I've seen on TV in a while.

 

[BlackMagicWolf]

Very interesting episode, THIS was the one I've been waiting for!

Check out my review here:

http://www.followingthenerd.com/tv/tv-reviews-ftn-reviews-doctor-who-series-08-episode-04-listen/

 

[Deserana]

Best episode so far, though not without its flaws. Moffat doesn't distinguish between ponderous and pretentious. There's still a lot of handwaving going on, and though I like world-building over monster-of-the-week, the story still feels too reliant on eureka moments and subtext that fall apart under scrutiny. On the bright side, Capaldi's Doctor is growing on me, Mackinnon's direction is top notch, and Lavelle's cinematography had some of the best use of bokeh I've seen on TV in a while.

I'm surprised at just how much Moffat has turned into tell and not show writer IMO. I look at Blink and see a very creepy but more importantly understated episode. It's all done through the action and the tension. Whereas in Listen it really bugged me with the amount of rhetorical questions The Doctor was spewing. The concept is great but it seemed like Moffat really wanted to get across just how creepy, clever and relateable his cool concept was.

I loved the way Moffat used to exploit common fears we've all sort of wondered. Like have you ever turned away and turned back at something and thought it has moved? Or what if there was something that you forgot you saw as soon as you turn your back? They were really cool concepts well written.

In Listen the bed scene was creepy as hell! Why? Because you saw this thing in action! You saw how god damn creepy a creature that hides for a living can be.
Having Capaldi just walk around with a serious stare saying stuff like "Have you ever spoken to yourself for no reason?" or "Do you ever look at your coffee and wonder where it went?". It's like calling a character "Crazy James" but never seeing why. You wanna know why he's called Crazy James! I dont wanna keep hearing how creepy this monster is I want to see it!

 

[TheComicbookKid]

In Listen the bed scene was creepy as hell! Why? Because you saw this thing in action! You saw how god damn creepy a creature that hides for a living can be.
Having Capaldi just walk around with a serious stare saying stuff like "Have you ever spoken to yourself for no reason?" or "Do you ever look at your coffee and wonder where it went?". It's like calling a character "Crazy James" but never seeing why. You wanna know why he's called Crazy James! I dont wanna keep hearing how creepy this monster is I want to see it!

I thought the talking to yourself worked cause it showed how he attempted to rationalize the fear. We all do it. There was always one character that was afraid and one that wasn't in each scene.

 

[DarthDorranceBane]

Wasn't the entirety of Gallifrey's time and space supposed to be time-locked/in a lost pocket universe? Because if Gallifrey's past can be accessed that easily what's to stop the present Daleks from destroying Gallifrey in the past?

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

This was a weird episode. A deeply deeply weird episode.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Wasn't the entirety of Gallifrey's time and space supposed to be time-locked/in a lost pocket universe? Because if Gallifrey's past can be accessed that easily what's to stop the present Daleks from destroying Gallifrey in the past?

Was the barn ever said to be on Gallifrey? Seems odd to blow up/time lock a planet you're on.

I figured it was a neighboring moon or something.

 

[Marvolo]

This was a weird episode. A deeply deeply weird episode.

And creepy. Very creepy.

Edit: Well the first bits were creepy.

 

[AnneFan]

What a fantastic episode. One of the best of the relaunch. Genuine tension and suspense. Capaldi is well and truly The Doctor now for me.

 

[Lord Valumart]

That was really good. Until the scene in the barn where it turned into more ******** "CLARA IS SUPER IMPORTANT!!" wanky nonsense from Moffat.

Seriously, brilliant idea for an episode. Things that are always just out of view, that have gone mental at the end of the universe with nothing else to distract them. Then it turns out The Doctor was scared of the dark as a kid and that Clara is responsible for this whole out look on life.

Well done Moffat on once again hammering home the fact that Clara is so ****ing important to the entire history of the show.

 

[Marvolo]

Is it really bad tho? Do you not like someone in general being that important or do you just not like that it's Clara that's that important?

 

[Lord Valumart]

It's that the episode fell apart at that point. He's already done the whole Clara being important thing. There was no need for that to be there. It's just hammering it into us that she's important.

It would have been better if it was some creature we never found out about.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Is it really bad tho? Do you not like someone in general being that important or do you just not like that it's Clara that's that important?

I have the same issue. It keeps the episode from being 12/10 for me. I loved that we saw the Doctor having that "nightmare" and going back to the barn, but I don't think Clara should have been the one to give him that speech.

I think it would have been better coming from Danny, given they have the same character arc.

 

[Deserana]

I thought the talking to yourself worked cause it showed how he attempted to rationalize the fear. We all do it. There was always one character that was afraid and one that wasn't in each scene.

For the opening I thought it worked fine. It basically pointed out the concept and the questions the Doctor was proposing was creepy. But then he does it again with Clara in his first scene with her, then again with the kids home worker and I'm pretty sure he does it a few more times.

But now look at the scene people loved from this ep. The bed scene. Why? Cause you saw this thing in action. Like the Angels. Imagine if the Blink episode was Tennant walking around and pretty much saying what the Angels were. You get that scene once the rest is the Angels in action. Here it was Capaldi talking with really only 1 scene of this supposed monster. Unsurprisingly by a mile IMO the best scene of the episode.

 

[Steelsheen]

i can tell some of you guys arent Clara fans would now be a good time to tell you that when it comes to this companion, it will just get worse for you?

I thought Listen was really good episode. Really creepy in the beginning, but eventually became kind of sweet. (and confusing! XD) Loved the Danny/Clara interactions and Capaldi was great! Really warming up to him.

I think Orson is Clara and Danny's great grandchild or something. Am I the only person thinking that?

I also think the thing under the sheet was a Sontaran, because of what The Doctor said as well as the above picture.[/SPOILER]

Orson is a descendant of Clara (confirmed in the scripts)-- and presumably its with Danny. remember that the TARDIS was still slaved to Clara's timeline so even if she was distracted with the thought of Danny (when he tried calling her phone) whatever future or past they jumped into its still Clara's. its just now with all the Pink family involvement it confirms that her future lays with him.

also good catch about the Doctor blurting out about the Sontarans. (i missed that ) although looking at the screencap its small and bald-ish like a Sontaran but... i dunno, it looks like it could also be something else.

also they said that the "monster" was played by Kiran Shah in prosthetics (Kiran is most famously known as the Hobbit-sized Frodo double from LOTR). i dunno if he was just pumping up his resume by getting a bit part in DW but yeah.... if the monster is really supposed to be "nothing" why even go through the trouble of hiring a little guy?

It seems to me like he just wipes away those complex questions with seemingly-complex solutions in the form of a conversation, or a monologue or whatever, but when you think about it he just kinda glossed over the subject.

Anyway, great episode. It felt like I had been watching for ages and was kinda shocking that so much story could be packed into 45 minutes, yet it was still very nuanced, linear and above all, good. Favourite episode of Series 8 so far, and one of Moffat's best in a while.

as much as i am a fan of Moffat's talent for writing and storytelling, i've also noticed his propensity to do this more and more, which can be annoying because it invalidates the viewer's investment in believing in the plot to begin with. and the more often he does this, the worse it will be in the long run, because viewers are never gonna believe in the "hook" of the story which will eventually lead into disinterest.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

For the opening I thought it worked fine. It basically pointed out the concept and the questions the Doctor was proposing was creepy. But then he does it again with Clara in his first scene with her, then again with the kids home worker and I'm pretty sure he does it a few more times.

But now look at the scene people loved from this ep. The bed scene. Why? Cause you saw this thing in action. Like the Angels. Imagine if the Blink episode was Tennant walking around and pretty much saying what the Angels were. You get that scene once the rest is the Angels in action. Here it was Capaldi talking with really only 1 scene of this supposed monster. Unsurprisingly by a mile IMO the best scene of the episode.

You keep using faulty comparisons. Blink is supposed to show you Angels. Listen is supposed to illustrate your own imagination.

Also "supposed monster". The Doctor and Clara both say there's a good chance it's just a child who was trying to scare Danny.

 

[Lord Valumart]

I still think Blink is awful.

Just saying...

 

[chamber-music]

just finished Listen.

felt like there was some loopholes though-- like what the heck was that thing on the bed that spooked them all then? because Clara's pep talk to the young Doctor doesnt explain that THING that stole Rupert's bedspread.

It was E.T's creepy peeping tom brother

I liked the first half the episode but found the other half 'meh'

People have described Capaldi's Doctor as being something of a scientist testing his theories and I think this episode certainly lived up to that description.

 

[Deserana]

as much as i am a fan of Moffat's talent for writing and storytelling, i've also noticed his propensity to do this more and more, which can be annoying because it invalidates the viewer's investment in believing in the plot to begin with. and the more often he does this, the worse it will be in the long run, because viewers are never gonna believe in the "hook" of the story which will eventually lead into disinterest.

Same for me I used to love Moffat. S5 is still probably my favourite Series, it would be S6 but the finale was a disaster and where I started noticing things creeping into his work. But I've started doing exactly what you said. I've got no interest really in whatever this Missy arc is as I'm 95% sure we wont get a satisfying ending to it. It will be like "oh it's this. But IS IT REALLYYYY THIS?"

But after 6 I'm just convinced he is making it up. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's great (I thought Asylum was outstanding) but sometimes it's just bad. For example (I'll try and find the source when I'm home) I remember at the end of S5 people were complaining about unanswered questions and Moffat said it was a 2 series arc. Clearly not the case. It may have lasted 2 series but nothing was answered. I remember 6B being promoted as the answers half of the series. What Bulls**t that was.

You keep using faulty comparisons. Blink is supposed to show you Angels. Listen is supposed to illustrate your own imagination.

Also "supposed monster". The Doctor and Clara both say there's a good chance it's just a child who was trying to scare Danny.

It's not a faulty comparison at all. I get that Listen is meant to play with the imagination of what you cant see is scary. That doesn't make it okay to make the scariness come purely through dialogue like Moffat at was doing. It's okay to do every now and again but literally other than the bed scene and slightly the ending everything is pretty much told to us. That works for you that's fine but I'd rather it's played up more with action. That goes for any form of storytelling ever. Not just Moffat.

Also if it was a kid under a blanket that's just... well that's great timing from that dick of a kid.

 

[chamber-music]

The Doctor stealing that guys coffee was funny

 

[Matt]

i can tell some of you guys arent Clara fans would now be a good time to tell you that when it comes to this companion, it will just get worse for you?

I don't dislike Clara. I dislike the way Moffat has tried too hard to make her some super-important companion. Not every companion has to be a Sarah Jane, or Rose or Amy, a Doctor-defining companion. It is okay to be a Donna, which is what Clara should have been.

Instead, Moffat has, in the span of a dozen episodes, made Clara into, unarguably, the Doctor's most important companion of all time, who has shaped every aspect of the Doctor's personality and history from childhood on....even going as far as to pick the TARDIS for him. And she has done nothing to earn this place in the lore. 5 episodes in and she is inserted into the Doctor's timeline at every point. 7 episodes in and she has saved Gallifrey. 12 episodes in and she gave child Doctor his entire outlook on life. Its just too much, IMO.

 

[regwec]

The Doctor stealing that guys coffee was funny

He seems to have a thing for coffee; he to mentions it in every episode, more or less.

I don't dislike Clara. I dislike the way Moffat has tried too hard to make her some super-important companion. Not every companion has to be a Sarah Jane, or Rose or Amy, a Doctor-defining companion. It is okay to be a Donna, which is what Clara should have been.

That's true, but Martha got slated partly for being a "minor" companion (and partly for some more dubious reasons). There is a balance between going big and going too small.

 

[wobbly]

Orson is a descendant of Clara (confirmed in the scripts)-- and presumably its with Danny. remember that the TARDIS was still slaved to Clara's timeline so even if she was distracted with the thought of Danny (when he tried calling her phone) whatever future or past they jumped into its still Clara's. its just now with all the Pink family involvement it confirms that her future lays with him.

I have not read the scripts but I would have thought that was maybe all a bit too obvious? Basically letting us know Clara's out with Danny (a presumably happy one) well ahead of time?

I dunno...It was obvious they wanted us to think Orson was related to her, but I'd think it a bit odd in this day when people have photos & videos of themselves all over the shop, that in hundred years time our descendants wouldn't be all over them looking at their great or great/great parents as the case may be, and wouldn't notice a dead ringer if they met one.

I was thinking maybe her link to Orson was simply the toy soldier, and his mention of stories that his family had a history with time travel was referring to Danny (safe to assume he will be travelling with them soon enough) but of course when Orson handed the solider to her it he suggested he did in fact recognise her after all ('family heirloom' and all that).

Can't say I object to giving her a happy send off when the time comes, but would rather not have it telegraphed.