No Way Home "Down Came The Goblin, and Took The Spider Out" - Willem Dafoe Needs His Thread Too

[BrollySupersj]

Goggles look terrible. This is the Green Goblin here, he needs a mask. The suit itself looks fine. But goggles over mask is terrible.

 

[Venom 1988]

While I don't mind the maskless look, this is just a behind the scenes picture so we don't know the full context. Is it possible they are simply updating the mask to be retractable instead of manually removing it? If that ends up being the case, then maybe they wouldn't film him wearing it all the time. Kinda like how with later movies, a lot of masked characters like Iron Man, Black Panther or even Spider-Man would film with only a partial costume or a mocap suit.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Feel like a purple hood over the helmet with an updated function to retract the faceplate would be pretty cool. Everyone wins.

 

[The Infernal]

It looks good despite being based off the Raimi Goblin. It's a bit more gritty now it's torn and repaired haphazardly. Hopefully he puts the purple cloak up (if it even is a cloak) and dons a mask or some form of Goblin makeup.

Not a big fan of the goggles, but it does give an excuse to let Dafoe act more. I was watching a clip of him in the first film where he's portraying both the Goblin persona and Norman through the mirror and it still holds up really well. Willem's expressions suit the character of the Green Goblin so much that I'd rather see him in green make-up or light prosthetics instead of a static piece of plastic.

Though I'm hoping we get lucky and can see his Goblin look evolve over at least a couple of films. Maybe Norman could be the anti-Iron-man in that sense.

 

[JubJub86]

He emoted plenty in the first flick, especially when the lenses came down. Not sure why it's a problem now, the body language and his voice gives us plenty.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Complaints about GG’s costume are nothing new. Even my mom was disappointed in it lol.

 

[The Infernal]

Yeah. It's a bit silly to say he emotes just fine behind a plastic mask.

 

[Captain Tired]

Regardless, it's held up as very well acclaimed performance in spite of the mask obscuring any facial expressions. All I know is that when I was a kid, I thought the whole suit looked pretty badass.

I don't think a purple cloak/hood would work with the biomechanical Raimi suit tbh. I'm picturing it in my head and it just looks kind of iffy.

 

[The Joker]

Its his Norman Osborn scenes where his acting is best. I always found his Goblin a bit hammy. Not a bad performance but definitely on the camp side.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I think the cloak will work fine. Similar to the costumes in Dune, but with more color of course.

 

[MasterBoss]

Complaints about GG’s costume are nothing new. Even my mom was disappointed in it lol.

yeah I remember back when it came out everyone complained about the costume.

Its his Norman Osborn scenes where his acting is best. I always found his Goblin a bit hammy. Not a bad performance but definitely on the camp side.

That's why it was so good. Dafoe understood exactly what kind of movie he was in and what the material needed.

 

[The Joker]

That's why it was so good. Dafoe understood exactly what kind of movie he was in and what the material needed.

Not at all. You don't need to be hammy to be a villain in a superhero movie. Some of the best villain performances have shown that; Ledger's Joker, McKellan's Magneto, Brolin's Thanos etc. Alfred Molina's performance in SM-2 is also up there. He kept it to a more low key menacing persona. It was more believable. That's why Dafoe's Norman scenes were more effective than his Goblin ones, IMO. He had a more sinister edge and kept the ham down. The best villain actors know the fine line between theatrical and camp.

I think that's something Raimi himself learned from SM-1. He reigned in his villain actors in the sequels when it came to the performances being too hammy. Plus he kept his next Goblin virtually mask free for the most part.

 

[Arachnerd]

It's possible Dafoe's Goblin could be toned down and made much more menacing in NWH, but either way I still like SM1 Goblin. Hammy, yes, but an effective villain nonetheless. The climax of that movie alone proves it.

 

[Toomes' Phone]

I think Sony and Marvel came to the correct conclusion regarding the Green Goblin's redesign: No mask in the world could ever be as terrifying as Willem Dafoe's face.

 

[MasterBoss]

Not at all. You don't need to be hammy to be a villain in a superhero movie. Some of the best villain performances have shown that; Ledger's Joker, McKellan's Magneto, Brolin's Thanos etc. Alfred Molina's performance in SM-2 is also up there. He kept it to a more low key menacing persona. It was more believable. That's why Dafoe's Norman scenes were more effective than his Goblin ones, IMO. He had a more sinister edge and kept the ham down. The best villain actors know the fine line between theatrical and camp.

I think that's something Raimi himself learned from SM-1. He reigned in his villain actors in the sequels when it came to the performances being too hammy. Plus he kept his next Goblin virtually mask free for the most part.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Dafoe found the perfect balance between menacing and camp. He reminds me of Sheev Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith, there's a reason why their dialogue is so memorable all these years later and why fans constantly quote them.

Let's not pretend Molina wasn't hammy to an extent for the kind of person he was playing. This is the same character who stood on his mechanical arms and melodramatically shouted "NOTHING WILL STAND IN OUR WAY! NOTHING!" And this was a relatively straight-faced character unlike Green Goblin. Raimi's movies are essentially the 60's Spider-Man comics come to life. There's nothing wrong with that, that's what I like about those movies, for the most part (I could do less with screaming woman running in front of the camera).

I'll be really bummed if Dafoe isn't hamming it up in this one, and that doesn't mean the character can't have moments of menace either. I don't want him to be wasted like Ian McDiarmid in Rise of Skywalker.

 

[The Joker]

That's exactly what I'm saying. Dafoe found the perfect balance between menacing and camp. He reminds me of Sheev Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith, there's a reason why their dialogue is so memorable all these years later and why fans constantly quote them.

Let's not pretend Molina wasn't hammy to an extent for the kind of person he was playing. This is the same character who stood on his mechanical arms and melodramatically shouted "NOTHING WILL STAND IN OUR WAY! NOTHING!" And this was a relatively straight-faced character unlike Green Goblin. Raimi's movies are essentially the 60's Spider-Man comics come to life. There's nothing wrong with that, that's what I like about those movies, for the most part (I could do less with screaming woman running in front of the camera).

I'll be really bummed if Dafoe isn't hamming it up in this one, and that doesn't mean the character can't have moments of menace either. I don't want him to be wasted like Ian McDiarmid in Rise of Skywalker.

I know what you're saying and I disagree with your assessment completely. There was no perfect balance at all. His Goblin was 90% hammy. That's not the definition of balance. Trying to compare Dafoe's Goblin to someone like Palpatine is as comical as Goblin's dialogue. His dialogue is quoted all these years later is it. Why is that notable. I see people use dialogue from the likes of Arnie's Mr. Freeze, too. Are you going to try and tell me that means it was a good performance? Dialogue is often remembered for the wrong reasons. In these cases because its campy bad. People like to look back and laugh and stupid and silly moments from CBM's. Make memes out of them etc. Stupid can be memorable. Like emo dancing Peter in SM-3 for example.

No lets pretend Molina wasn't hammy. Because he wasn't. One singular moment where he says nothing will stand in our way does not turn his performance into a hammy one. Molina played it straight menacingly for the most part. Yes Raimi's movies are 60's Spider-Man........that manage to for the most part to tread the fine line between camp and theatrical. That's why they were so beloved and successful. When they started to step over that line.....looking at you Spider-Man 3 and all the emo Peter stuff.....they got hauled over the coals for it. Yeah people look back at it now and laugh and make memes over it. But its still bad. Just like people still quote bad campy dialogue from blatantly bad villain performances like Arnie's Freeze.

Now again I don't think Dafoe's Goblin performance was bad, just a bit too hammy. His overall performance is saved by his Norman Osborn scenes. One of the reasons why when he was resurrected for cameos in the sequels it was as Norman. Because that was his best side. We never saw that hammy Goblin persona....or his costume put on anyone again.

I would prepare to be bummed then. I think his performance is going to be much more reigned in, and hopefully more on the menacing side. I look at how they handled Vulture and Mysterio, two villains who could have easily been hammy as hell. But thankfully they were not. Its one of the reasons I am ok with Foxx's Electro coming back. Because he will be as Foxx himself said a badass this time and not that cringe goofball we got in TASM 2.

 

[Arachnerd]

Fact of the matter is, there's obvious some opinions about Dafoe's Goblin here that won't be changed whatsoever.

 

[Captain Tired]

I can't wait to see Dafoe back as the Green Goblin. Alongside Maguire's Spiderman, he is easily my most anticipated character to return.

 

[Dweet]

Eh I am more excited to see Dr Octopus back because he was the best villain from the old movies. For Green Goblin I hope they give him a better costume this time. Didn't like his original one. Didn't like James Franco's one either but it wasn't as goofy as Willem's. MCU don't make their villains goofballs so y'all need not worry about Willem going back there. The Watts will make a real Goblin. Fourth time's the charm. They dropped the ball three times on Gobby. He needs justice.

 

[The Infernal]

I'm with the camp that Dafoe knew what film he was in. His Goblin was spot on in my view. The Raimi films were camp and there is just no way you could have Willem bring The Dark Knight's Joker approach and have it fit the tone of the movie.

Maybe a future onscreen Green Goblin can take the Nolanesque approach, the first ASM movie could have laid the ground for that approach, but was already going on a bonkers route in the first film with their plans so that wasn't happening even before ASM2's course corrections.

 

[JubJub86]

Yeah. It's a bit silly to say he emotes just fine behind a plastic mask.

Even when he did? Not sure it's any different to, say, V For Vendetta, or Darth Vader. Body language and vocalizations are a big part of this stuff, you just play it up in the way Sam/Willem chose to.

Hell, for the more heavy-duty acting scenes he was either maskless (the mirror stuff and the finale) or the lenses were out of the mask anyway. No reason that can't be done again. He wants to get up face-to-face and mess with Peter's head he can just lower the lenses again so you see his eyes.

For action scenes flying around cackling maniacally and murdering people, the body language choices and the voice are more than enough.

Hell, soon we'll be saying an inevitable MCU Dr Doom shouldn't be masked.

 

[The Joker]

I actually had no problem with the costume.....in concept. An actor can still deliver a great performance behind a mask. After all Spider-Man himself is behind a mask. Its the design that wasn't great. It looked like green plastic rather than military armor.

 

[JubJub86]

It did. I think that's half the ****ing charm though. A lot of that "bright green plastic" was basically the CG scenes too, the physical stuntman-in-suit stuff seems a tiny bit more muted in color and looks more metallic.

He doesn't have to look like some real Air Force experiment. Certainly not now, when we've got guys running around with stupid physics-defying nanotech and a guy made of sand and Spiderman throwing spells around. It's comics stuff, the prime intended audience are still 12 year olds no matter how much it broadens out older than that too. Have some fun with it.

He's a bright-green Power Ranger, yeah. It also doesn't even matter when Dafoe's being awesome Dafoe and making him psychotic and scary nonetheless.

Nothing Cap ever wore in these movies screamed "believable military" either, is what it is.

 

[Arachnerd]

 

[Toomes' Phone]

I'm actually happy to see the OG helmet again. Maybe he gets it in the final battle?