Dr. Lecter Invites you to Dinner. The ''Hannibal'' Thread - Part 2

[The Shape]

I'd prefer it to actually remain on television somewhere.

 

[StrainedEyes]

Well, someone has to pick it up if it gets dropped, and it's better Netflix or Amazon Prime than no one at all.

Last year when it was almost canceled, it was leaked that Amazon and at least one cable network were interested in picking it up.

Hopefully both parties are still interested this time around.

 

[jonathancrane]

Have there been any concrete articles about the series being dropped? Anyway, I confess I am slightly confused about the most recent episode: is Will having a legitimate meltdown at the end of the episode, or is it part of his efforts to lower Lecter's guard? The opening sequence implied it, but the final scene was a bit ambiguous.

 

[slimshady247]

Maybe a little bit of both? Who knows. It must be hard to have your psyche toyed with for so long and then suddenly attempt to take back control.

And it'd be nice for it to remain on television somewhere, yes, but again, all I was saying that it'd be better somewhere, whether that be a streaming service or an actual television network, rather than nowhere at all.

And right, I remember that Fuller mentioned that there were other networks and things that were interested in picking up the show if NBC dropped it, and if NBC for some reason does decide to drop it (which I don't think they will just yet), then I don't see why those parties would stop being interested considering that the show's popularity and critical acclaim/prestige is only expanding.

At this stage, though, as we've discussed, NBC can't actually cancel the show, so it really doesn't matter whether they decide to continue to keep it as part of their lineup, I don't think (particularly if there's still outside interest, which I don't think would've dissipated considering the show's substantial and increasing acclaim).

 

[StrainedEyes]

First shot of Michael Pitt as Mason Verger!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/xaque-gruber/bryan-fuller_b_5184404.html

 

[Tron Bonne]

What do you mean NBC can't actually cancel the show? Of course they can, unless there's some type of contract which disallows it, but I'm fairly certain no network would ever consider a contract like that, especially to someone like Fuller who has never headed a show last more than two seasons. They can't completely stop production of the show since it's owned by Lightsgate, if that's what you mean, but that's a very different issue.

Have there been any concrete articles about the series being dropped?

No, of course not. It's just looking at ratings and knowing what kind of standards networks generally have. Right now it's averaging in the low 2 million digits, which is pretty low for a network show. There's a lot of different factors, of course, but ratings tend to be the biggest one to look at for a show's continuation.

 

[Shifty]

I wouldn't pair Revolution with those other two. It's not doing the numbers it did last season, but at least it's still staying semi-afloat with no lead-in. Those two have been rapidly sinking within the first month on-air.

True, though they just have half season orders and I could see NBC trying to save on marketing a new show and have Believe and Crisis both get 10-13 episodes and push binge watching over the summer. Revolution's numbers could probably earn it a 10-13 episode final season order for Fridays/mid-season replacement.

Imagine how epic it would be if Hannibal's lead in was...Game of Thrones. What a combination that would be. Its success would be all but guaranteed. Hell, it would excel if it was paired alongside ANY HBO or Showtime drama...

With the allure of network TV money, I can see how it is hard to pass up but there is more long term success outside of network TV.

HBO doesn't pick up other failed shows, they don't want to be seen picking up failures.

 

[slimshady247]

What do you mean NBC can't actually cancel the show? Of course they can, unless there's some type of contract which disallows it, but I'm fairly certain no network would ever consider a contract like that, especially to someone like Fuller who has never headed a show last more than two seasons. They can't completely stop production of the show since it's owned by Lightsgate, if that's what you mean, but that's a very different issue.

No, they can't. There's this whole foreign coproduction deal that you probably already know about (which maybe you're referencing there with "Lightsgate", though I'm not really sure) someone else can probably explain far better than me. Bottom line being that NBC can really only drop Hannibal from their lineup of shows, they can't cancel it entirely because it's not really even their show.

 

[Nemi]

Have there been any concrete articles about the series being dropped? Anyway, I confess I am slightly confused about the most recent episode: is Will having a legitimate meltdown at the end of the episode, or is it part of his efforts to lower Lecter's guard? The opening sequence implied it, but the final scene was a bit ambiguous.

I don't think we the viewers are supposed to have a concrete answer to that question just yet. I think the goal is to have us wondering if Will is crazy or playing Hannibal.

 

[Tron Bonne]

No, they can't. There's this whole foreign coproduction deal that you probably already know about (which maybe you're referencing there with "Lightsgate", though I'm not really sure) someone else can probably explain far better than me. Bottom line being that NBC can really only drop Hannibal from their lineup of shows, they can't cancel it entirely because it's not really even their show.

Dropping a show is the same as canceling it. I'm not sure what line you're drawing between the two. And yes, Lionsgate is the studio behind the show, and they're free to shop it to anyone else even if NBC cancels, and NBC can't stop production. But this is a pretty common thing for most shows. Any show that the network doesn't have a controlling part in can be shopped to other networks after being canceled by another.

 

[insider1970]

First shot of Michael Pitt as Mason Verger!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/xaque-gruber/bryan-fuller_b_5184404.html

Wow, that's a nice photo and interesting look! Can't wait to watch him on screen t:

Regarding season 3 possibilities, let the show creator speak:

I can’t imagine not seeing more of Hannibal after season two wraps up. What’s your gut telling you? Do you think we’ll get a third season?

BF: You know, we’re having this conversation right now. What does season three look like? And I guess once again, it is a complete game changer at the end of the second season. Like at the end of the first season the entire paradigm is tossed out the window and at the end of season two the entire paradigm is tossed out the window. And so, season three is a whole new chapter in and of itself. And so, we’re talking about, is that chapter financially possible given our model?

We know that NBC, who has been incredibly supportive of the show, would like very much to bring the show back, but there’s also negotiations with the factions of NBC talking about the pros and cons of that pick-up. Because we are a very low-rated show and we’re on a night where people don’t generally watch television. And is that a thing that is security for us or is that a thing that is not necessarily helping us?

I don't know about you, I don't get too optimistic by reading his comments. But of course, English is not my first language and I may misinterpret something. What do you get from this? What are "factions of NBC"?

Source: http://www.thebacklot.com/bryan-fuller-breaks-down-the-homoerotic-charge-of-hannibal/04/2014/2/

 

[Tron Bonne]

That's probably in reference to the fact that NBC, like most corporations, have a lot of layers. Whether or not a show gets canceled probably has to go through several channels before anything can be officially done. We think and talk about networks like a single entity, but they're actually a lot of different levels to them.

But, getting away from all that, season three is suppose to be Hannibal on the run by Fuller's outline, right? I have mixed feelings about that. I have faith in Fuller and the team to deliver excellence either way, but I kind of wish they'd go right into Red Dragon. I don't feel we need a Hannibal on the run season to be honest.

But Pitt's hair is great there. That guy just has great haircuts.

 

[Matt]

No, they can't. There's this whole foreign coproduction deal that you probably already know about (which maybe you're referencing there with "Lightsgate", though I'm not really sure) someone else can probably explain far better than me. Bottom line being that NBC can really only drop Hannibal from their lineup of shows, they can't cancel it entirely because it's not really even their show.

Yes they can. A foreign co-production and broadcasting means nothing. The fact is, if the show gets dropped by NBC, the production company will shut it down until it has somewhere States side to air it. That is just the reality of Hollywood. A production company is not going to pay to produce a show, designed for American audiences, without a place to air it in the United States. Until a concrete deal is in place to air it somewhere in the US, Hannibal will effectively be cancelled.

Once production shuts down, things get really complicated. I guarantee all of the actors' contracts become more or less worthless once production is shut down. That is, they are free to option out of the contract if they so choose, which they will because they will be looking for new work. Once the actors start terminating their contracts, the chances of this show getting picked up by Amazon, Netflix, AMC, TNT, whoever, becomes slim to none.

You can say that NBC cannot cancel it all you want, but that is frankly, delusional. NBC may not be able to shut down production, but once they pull it from their lineup, the show is functionally and effectively canceled.

That isn't to say that the show is definitely dead but it is on life support right now. It has two things going for it though:

1) The possibility of another network picking it up...but frankly, I see that as a pipe dream. While it isn't impossible, it isn't likely either. Maybe after season one, but the longer a show goes, the less return a network is likely to get from picking it up. Beyond that, the ratings for Hannibal have been abysmal. There has been no second season growth as you will sometimes see with a serialized show, once viewers have a chance to catch up and hype grows during hiatus. Rather, the show's viewers have declined. Furthermore, a pickup would have to be nearly instantaneous to avoid the actors optioning out of the contract as I discussed. That doesn't seem likely for a serialized show with a fairly convoluted mythology, a relatively high production budget and very low ratings. Networks are going to want to think this one through if Fueller starts pitching it.

Yes, it has happened with shows like Scrubs (but Disney got syndication returns out of that) and Buffy (UPN was in a bad place, trying to build a brand and frankly the gamble didn't pay off for them....notice they didn't repeat that mistake with Angel?). But more often than not, it will be a Firefly type of deal. Fans beg other networks to pick it up and it just never comes to pass.

The fact is, the show's best bet is NBC keeping it around. The dire state of NBC works in favor of Hannibal. Basically, every scripted show on NBC (with the exception of The Blacklist) would have been cancelled years ago on any other network (Community, Parks and Rec, Parenthood, Revolution, even SVU is a shadow of its former self and would get the axe on any other network).

The problem with this is, NBC has tried this show in two time slots and neither has worked. Even when paired with Grimm, which does fairly well for a Friday night niche show (like Hannibal), Hannibal loses between 60 and 70 % of Grimm's lead-in audience. That isn't good news for Hannibal. Even on Friday night....1.8-2 million viewers is AWFUL and NBC is getting nothing out of DVR and online viewing (no matter how much fans in denial would like to believe otherwise...Neilsen ratings still rule network thinking).

On the plus side, NBC has nothing to replace it with. Their drama pilots all sound God awful. The only successful drama rolled out by NBC this year was The Blacklist and I think that could be Hannibal's saving grace. I think NBC may try to team Hannibal with The Blacklist. They are thematically similar and both are intended for older audiences and deal with more graphic content, characters and themes than your average network show. The Blacklist is averaging about 11 million viewers per episode (which is huge for NBC). If Hannibal could retain even a quarter of that lead-in, it would be a good move.

Based on NBC's terrible situation, I give this show a 50/50 chance of surviving. That said, if NBC pulls the plug....odds are pretty good that this show is dead (85-90 % chance).

It is a shame because this show has been fantastic this season, but for whatever reason it just can't find an audience.

That's probably in reference to the fact that NBC, like most corporations, have a lot of layers. Whether or not a show gets canceled probably has to go through several channels before anything can be officially done. We think and talk about networks like a single entity, but they're actually a lot of different levels to them.

But, getting away from all that, season three is suppose to be Hannibal on the run by Fuller's outline, right? I have mixed feelings about that. I have faith in Fuller and the team to deliver excellence either way, but I kind of wish they'd go right into Red Dragon. I don't feel we need a Hannibal on the run season to be honest.

But Pitt's hair is great there. That guy just has great haircuts.

I agree entirely. I don't want to see Hannibal on the run. It could be done more effectively if we ever get a post-Silence of the Lambs season (with Will coming out of retirement to hunt his foe down and finally giving closure to their story, which Thomas Harris has failed to do). Plus, we have effectively seen Hannibal on the run for two years. He may not have always been a suspect, but he has been taking actions to cover up his crimes and avoid the FBI's detection. We don't need a third season of it. I would much prefer a retelling of Red Dragon as season three.

 

[rogue trooper]

First shot of Michael Pitt as Mason Verger!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/xaque-gruber/bryan-fuller_b_5184404.html

Very cool! He looks like James Dean.

 

[Sawyer]

http://tvline.com/2014/04/23/may-season-finale-spoilers-2014-sweeps-photos-bones/#!11/hannibal/

HANNIBAL

PRE-FINALE EPISODES | Last Friday's installment kicked off an extended arc in which addled profiler Will Graham returns to some very high-stakes therapy with the infamous Dr. Lecter. "The question is whether Will will be able to hold on to his humanity or if Will's humanity will slip through his fingers," previews showrunner Bryan Fuller, adding that the emergence of the antler-sporting "Willdigo" is symbolic proof that Hannibal continues to wield dark influence over the mind of his "friend." Also on tap during May Sweeps? "The Mason Verger story comes to fruition," Fuller teases. "We will learn how that character came to look the way he did in the Ridley Scott movie [Hannibal]." Plus, Gillian Anderson's Bedelia Du Maurier sneaks back onto the scene (though hopefully not via dinner plate).

MAY 23 SEASON FINALE | The season began with a flash-forward to a brutal fight scene between Hannibal and FBI honcho Jack Crawford -- and "Mizumono," as the finale is titled, will bring that melee to its conclusion. "We only showed that big reveal [of the Jack-Hannibal scrum] because we knew we had a whole bunch of other ones in our back pocket!" Fuller explains with a big laugh. "The audience will be going, 'There's that moment and that moment and that moment -- and then there's the ending! Good God!'" Director David Slade, who shot the Hannibal pilot, returned for the Season 2 finale, a behind-the-scenes touch that reflects the central characters coming full circle "in a symmetrical way that'll be satisfying and disturbing for the audience." As for whether the brilliant-but-on-the-bubble drama's season-ender would work as a series finale, Fuller has this to say: "It completes the arc of the last two seasons in a way that I find very satisfying, but it also ends on several cliffhangers that will be frustrating to not have closure on. So I'm of two minds, really."

 

[The Shape]

God, I hope it's not the series finale.

 

[slimshady247]

It won't be.

 

[Bruce Banner]

I agree entirely. I don't want to see Hannibal on the run. It could be done more effectively if we ever get a post-Silence of the Lambs season (with Will coming out of retirement to hunt his foe down and finally giving closure to their story, which Thomas Harris has failed to do). Plus, we have effectively seen Hannibal on the run for two years. He may not have always been a suspect, but he has been taking actions to cover up his crimes and avoid the FBI's detection. We don't need a third season of it. I would much prefer a retelling of Red Dragon as season three.

Take this with a grain of salt as I did.

Spoiler

Two weeks ago. My creative writing professor told me he has a student from the MFA program who went to New York. He just got a job as some sort of editorial assistant and he'd be finishing his semester from afar.

Around four weeks ago he called to say something new from Thomas Harris had came in. He wasn't allowed to say what it was about.

Like I said. Take it with a grain of salt. I only mention it because my professor is a writer that hasn't bull****ed me yet in the past few years.

 

[Matt]

Hmm...interesting. That said, I'm not sure I'd want to read another Harris book after Hannibal Rising. Not only was the premise terrible, the writing was just awful. It differs from Hannibal in that regard. In Hannibal, the premise was pretty bad but the writing was good. I feel like Harris has lost his touch. I'm not sure I'd want him re-visiting the character.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Well, Hannibal Rising was written with a metaphorical gun to his head.

 

[rogue trooper]

Sneak peak of Friday's: https://www.facebook.com/NBCHannibal

 

[squeekness]

I liked Hannibal Rising. I gobbled it in one day. 'Twas the movie that sucked.

 

[insider1970]

Take this with a grain of salt as I did.

Spoiler

Two weeks ago. My creative writing professor told me he has a student from the MFA program who went to New York. He just got a job as some sort of editorial assistant and he'd be finishing his semester from afar.

Around four weeks ago he called to say something new from Thomas Harris had came in. He wasn't allowed to say what it was about.

Like I said. Take it with a grain of salt. I only mention it because my professor is a writer that hasn't bull****ed me yet in the past few years.

That's interesting and very exciting if true, thank you

 

[insider1970]

I liked Hannibal Rising. I gobbled it in one day. 'Twas the movie that sucked.

I am with you here, in the minority group.

 

[insider1970]

Re: rumors of Michael Pitt being difficult to work with: