Dr. Lecter Invites you to Dinner. The ''Hannibal'' Thread

[Sawyer]

I agree. Mikkelsen's Lecter lacks the charm and sophistication of Dr. Lecter and is too overtly creepy, IMO. Of course, it is a pilot. The next few episodes could very well be DRASTICALLY different.

BTW, as someone who has an autistic family member, am I the only one who tires of the new trend in Hollywood of using Aspergers to explain away any social ineptitude of a character? It is especially egregious on this show, to suggest that Will Graham has Aspergers, in one breath, then in the next claim that he is hyper-empathetic. Do the writers not realize what Aspergers/autism is and just plugged it in as something to explain away Will Graham's awkward nature?

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Question : when does the show take place, in the 70/80 or today ?

Btw, I also had a hard time understanding the dialogues, I found no English subtitles and missed a lot of lines.

 

[Schlosser85]

It's set in present day, judging by the cell phones and all.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Ha ok, I even didn't pay attention to cell phone. Thanks.

 

[Matt]

I think what gets me is that all the Aspergers people I see on tv are smart ones. I know this isn't really PC to say, but my daughter is a low IQ one and she is nothing like them. Most folks I know with Aspergers kids, their kids are on the low end too, not the high end like TV. The only super power my kid has is ticking me off over stupid little things most folks naturally get.

Yeah. There are definitely some high functioning autistic people out there. But even the highest functioning Aspergers patient wouldn't be able to be "purely empathetic," because if he or she were "purely empathetic," then that person wouldn't have Aspergers.

Aspergers is to today's pop culture what homosexuality was to the 1990s: a slightly amusing tragicomic "affliction" to give to fictional characters that grant them superhuman abilities. In the former case, it is the ability to do complex math, see into other dimensions and predict the future; in the latter case, it is the ability to rifle off caustic one-liners, know everything about fashion and decorating and put up with all women's crap.

Not on Parenthood.

This exchange amuses me.

 

[Kaleb]

I enjoyed the pilot,and I expect as the series goes on Mads will become more relaxed and begin to "own" the "Lecter" character.

 

[Pink Ranger]

This exchange amuses me.

I tried to specify the 1990s for homosexuality, to give the impression that progress has been made on the matter, but Parenthood was mentioned, and then, yeah ...

 

[Maximus One]

I don't understand what you people are missing here about Will's metal state. He doesn't have Pure Empathy as a side effect of him having Aspergers. He has SYMPTOMS of Aspergers due to his Pure Empathy. Will feels what others feel so deeply that it is socially crippling for him. He gets social cues and all that kinda stuff, he just doesn't like being social because of his empathy. You guys are waaaayyy too hung up on this Aspergers thing.

 

[Matt]

No, it was a stupid line to drop and reflects how little Hollywood writers know about autism and how willing they are to throw something that they do not understand out there as a cheap way to explain something/make a character sympathetic. The fact is, if someone has "pure empathy," their symptoms will be nothing even remotely close to autism because autism reflects an inability to empathize. They are two entirely contradictory concepts.

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

unsettling... unnerving... disturbing...

perfect and appropriate descrips of the show...

and Mads Mikkelson is one truly creepy ****er...

he's creepy as hell in Hannibal and he was JUST as creepy as the villain with the bleeding eyes in Casino Royale...

that guy just chills the **** out of me...

 

[Matt]

unsettling... unnerving... disturbing...

perfect and appropriate descrips of the show...

and Mads Mikkelson is one truly creepy ****er...

he's creepy as hell in Hannibal and he was JUST as creepy as the villain with the bleeding eyes in Casino Royale...

that guy just chills the **** out of me...

But that's the problem.

This show needs to take a page from Dexter's playbook and play Hannibal as more...normal. Even if he is faking it, Dexter's mask when he was dealing with Deb, Rita, etc was convincing. So much so that the audience started to believe it. Now, in the most recent season, when Deb saw what Dexter really was and the audience experienced Dexter manipulating and playing Deb to protect himself....we are forced to accept that he is a monster, no matter how convincing his mask is. Hannibal should be the same way. He wears a mask around other characters rather than just acting overtly creepy. And when he does terrible things, it will make it have that much of a greater impact on the audience.

 

[Lord]

They said he had some elements from Asperger Syndrome, it includes difficulties in social interaction, wasn't that one of Graham's aspects too?

 

[Kaleb]

Ive got no problem with how they portrayed Mad's 'Hannibal'' I just would they didnt do show who he really is from the pilot.. I was hoping that the writers would make us ''fall in love'' with the character then by at least episode 5 or 8 show us the monster inside himself.

 

[Schlosser85]

I seem to be the only one who doesn't really find Mikkelsen all that obviously creepy.

He acts relatively "normal", to me. I dunno, I don't get the "obviously a monster" vibe. Agree to disagree, I guess.

Hopkins is a lot more "wink wink nudge nudge" overtly creepy (not to mention hammy) in the prologue of Red Dragon where he's hosting a dinner party in high society and isn't known to be a killer yet, than Mikkelsen was in the pilot episode, to me.

I mean, Mikkelsen has moments, like when he leans forward and tells the patient the line about how he'll know when the lion is in the room, and the way he (probably) feeds Graham the girl's lungs, but he plays that breakfast scene more subtle and low-key than Hopkins was in the Red Dragon prologue where the symphony board is obliviously chowing down on the missing flutist and someone asks Hannibal what the meat is and he says ever so very winkingly "If I tell you...I'm afraid you won't even try it". Hopkins almost literally gives this giant wink at the camera.

I love Hopkins as Hannibal, don't get me wrong, but he was enormously campy and way more over-the-top than Mikkelsen so far, including in the Red Dragon prologue where he's in the same "mode" as Hannibal is on this show...the respected psychiatrist who hob knobs with high society and isn't known as a killer yet.

 

[Kaleb]

Btw has anyone started eating their meals with the grace and suave of how Hannibal eats his meals?then savouring the taste after every bite?

 

[Maximus One]

Matt, I think you missed my point completely. And frankly I don't think too many people are able to say, with absolute conviction and accuracy exactly what symptoms having "pure empathy" would present. Is pure empathy even a real condition? Personally I know that I have an incredibly deep sense of empathy and always have since I was a kid and while that isn't what has caused my social issues it has in some ways. I'm very sensitive to my own emotions and emotions are extremely contagious for me. It's involuntary when I start feeling what other people around me are feeling. Now, even though most of my social issues stem from anxiety I still empathize with Will as a character because while it's not to such a degree I feel things in a very similar way to him. All I'm saying is that, like me, I think Will ONLY has social issues that appear Aspergers like because of his over developed sense of empathy. That's all, it has nothing to do with actual autism or how real the portrayal is. I just don't see the problem. Will seems more like a guy who just plain doesn't really enjoy being around people he doesn't really already know and feel comfortable with.

 

[Schlosser85]

He looked so content and satisfied with that lung dinner, it almost makes you envious.

 

[Maximus One]

I seem to be the only one who doesn't really find Mikkelsen all that obviously creepy.

He acts relatively "normal", to me. I dunno, I don't get the "obviously a monster" vibe. Agree to disagree, I guess.

Hopkins is a lot more "wink wink nudge nudge" overtly creepy (not to mention hammy) in the prologue of Red Dragon where he's hosting a dinner party in high society and isn't known to be a killer yet, than Mikkelsen was in the pilot episode, to me.

I mean, Mikkelsen has moments, like when he leans forward and tells the patient the line about how he'll know when the lion is in the room, and the way he (probably) feeds Graham the girl's lungs, but he plays that breakfast scene more subtle and low-key than Hopkins was in the Red Dragon prologue where the symphony board is obliviously chowing down on the missing flutist and someone asks Hannibal what the meat is and he says ever so very winkingly "If I tell you...I'm afraid you won't even try it". Hopkins almost literally gives this giant wink at the camera.

I love Hopkins as Hannibal, don't get me wrong, but he was enormously campy and way more over-the-top than Mikkelsen so far, including in the Red Dragon prologue where he's in the same "mode" as Hannibal is on this show...the respected psychiatrist who hob knobs with high society and isn't known as a killer yet.

See, I felt that that was just part of Hannibal's charm. The rest of the prologue with him and Will before he realizes Will is getting close shows him acting normal just fine. And I mean, out of all the movies this is the only time we've ever gotten to see Hopkins' Hannibal prior to his incarceration so they had to give us at least one little wink and bit of innuendo.

 

[Matt]

I seem to be the only one who doesn't really find Mikkelsen all that obviously creepy.

He acts relatively "normal", to me. I dunno, I don't get the "obviously a monster" vibe. Agree to disagree, I guess.

Hopkins is a lot more "wink wink nudge nudge" overtly creepy (not to mention hammy) in the prologue of Red Dragon where he's hosting a dinner party in high society and isn't known to be a killer yet, than Mikkelsen was in the pilot episode, to me.

I mean, Mikkelsen has moments, like when he leans forward and tells the patient the line about how he'll know when the lion is in the room, and the way he (probably) feeds Graham the girl's lungs, but he plays that breakfast scene more subtle and low-key than Hopkins was in the Red Dragon prologue where the symphony board is obliviously chowing down on the missing flutist and someone asks Hannibal what the meat is and he says ever so very winkingly "If I tell you...I'm afraid you won't even try it". Hopkins almost literally gives this giant wink at the camera.

I love Hopkins as Hannibal, don't get me wrong, but he was enormously campy and way more over-the-top than Mikkelsen so far, including in the Red Dragon prologue where he's in the same "mode" as Hannibal is on this show...the respected psychiatrist who hob knobs with high society and isn't known as a killer yet.

I don't think it is fair to really compare the opening of Red Dragon though, because at that point Hannibal is ingrained in pop culture. It was campy much in the same way that Freddy Kruger was campy by The Final Nightmare. It is like comparing apples and oranges, right?

Matt, I think you missed my point completely. And frankly I don't think too many people are able to say, with absolute conviction and accuracy exactly what symptoms having "pure empathy" would present. Is pure empathy even a real condition? Personally I know that I have an incredibly deep sense of empathy and always have since I was a kid and while that isn't what has caused my social issues it has in some ways. I'm very sensitive to my own emotions and emotions are extremely contagious for me. It's involuntary when I start feeling what other people around me are feeling. Now, even though most of my social issues stem from anxiety I still empathize with Will as a character because while it's not to such a degree I feel things in a very similar way to him. All I'm saying is that, like me, I think Will ONLY has social issues that appear Aspergers like because of his over developed sense of empathy. That's all, it has nothing to do with actual autism or how real the portrayal is. I just don't see the problem. Will seems more like a guy who just plain doesn't really enjoy being around people he doesn't really already know and feel comfortable with.

But autism/Aspergers is the inability to feel empathy. That is why it is a stupid analogy. Will's problem is no where close to autism. The writers used the analogy to justify the character being a jackass emo. Will may not like people because he understands them too well or whatever. But to compare it to autism or Aspergers is lazy writing and I really don't see how you can justify it as anything but.

 

[Maximus One]

How though? He CLEARLY has social issues and even said "I can empathize with anybody, it has less to do with a personality disorder than an active imagination" he doesn't actually have Aspergers he has social issues and what seems to be extreme social anxiety due to his empathy. That is comparable to Aspergers. He probably doesn't get social cues easy and we already see he has trouble with eye contact but the reason he doesn't have Aspergers is because hes too connected. It's like the exact opposite of Aspergers ending with the same results actually. That's why it's comparable like that at least IMO

 

[Matt]

How though? He CLEARLY has social issues and even said "I can empathize with anybody, it has less to do with a personality disorder than an active imagination" he doesn't actually have Aspergers he has social issues and what seems to be extreme social anxiety due to his empathy. That is comparable to Aspergers. He probably doesn't get social cues easy and we already see he has trouble with eye contact but the reason he doesn't have Aspergers is because hes too connected. It's like the exact opposite of Aspergers ending with the same results actually. That's why it's comparable like that at least IMO

It isn't. Social anxiety and Aspergers are two different things. You should really read up on Aspergers. Social awkwardness, inability to maintain eye contact, etc is not Aspergers. The result you describe is not autism. Two entirely different things and it is offensive to simply autism in such a manner.

 

[Maximus One]

Nobody is simplifying autism. Everything you listed as not being Aspergers are symptoms of it. I'm not simplifying anything, all I'm saying is that he does not have Aspergers and that whatever it is he does have gives him symptoms that are comparable.

 

[Maximus One]

Individuals with AS experience difficulties in basic elements of social interaction, which may include a failure to develop friendships or to seek shared enjoyments or achievements with others (for example, showing others objects of interest), a lack of social or emotional reciprocity (social "games" give-and-take mechanic), and impaired nonverbal behaviors in areas such as eye contact, facial expression, posture, and gesture.

Seems to me that Will presents some of these symptoms.

 

[Spuzz]

Aspergers is to today's pop culture what homosexuality was to the 1990s: a slightly amusing tragicomic "affliction" to give to fictional characters that grant them superhuman abilities. In the former case, it is the ability to do complex math, see into other dimensions and predict the future; in the latter case, it is the ability to rifle off caustic one-liners, know everything about fashion and decorating and put up with all women's crap.

I don't know if that was offensive or the funniest thing I've ever read.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I don't know if that was offensive or the funniest thing I've ever read.

If you say it is both, then you've made my day.