Dragon Age 2 Incoming. - Part 1

[iamlegend]

There could be a pre-release DLC that ties in to the next game once the third installment is almost out. I doubt it, but it's possible. At the very least there may be DLC in the third game that expands on events from the second game.

Meh, doubt it. I think they just faced such a negative reaction to DAII that they've just given up on it. Hence calling it quits after just two real DLC's (as opposed to what DA got).

 

[Matt]

Meh, doubt it. I think they just faced such a negative reaction to DAII that they've just given up on it. Hence calling it quits after just two real DLC's (as opposed to what DA got).

I never understood the problem people had with DA2. Yeah, the map is tiny and the plot is kind of nonexistent (just a bunch of small events that kind of build into something but not really) but the characters and their development are great (I loved being able to go have conversations with my team throughout town and all the different character quests) and the fighting system is fun.

 

[iamlegend]

I never understood the problem people had with DA2. Yeah, the map is tiny and the plot is kind of nonexistent (just a bunch of small events that kind of build into something but not really) but the characters and their development are great (I loved being able to go have conversations with my team throughout town and all the different character quests) and the fighting system is fun.

I agree with you on the strengths, but we've got to remember that a lot of gamers from Dragon Age's genre are looking for, well... big worlds and big epic stories. Especially after DA: O.

And in that regard, DA2 totally failed.

Character wise is was amazingly well done. I think my two favorite NPC's from the DA universe remain in DA: O, but DA2's cast as a group was much more fleshed out and written far better.

All told, I enjoyed the game, but I understand why a lot of folks didn't.

I hated some of the art re-designs, though. Namely the Darkspawn.

 

[Matt]

Yeah, I can see why people wanted something more epic but I kind of liked the smaller, character driven story. I suppose if it had to be more of an epic story, I personally would've taken out most of the Templar stuff (saved it for expansion/DLC or used bits and pieces of it to hint of the coming chaos/war between the mages and the templars) but the main overall story would've focused on uniting countries of the Free Marches against the Qunari.

 

[iamlegend]

Yeah, I can see why people wanted something more epic but I kind of liked the smaller, character driven story. I suppose if it had to be more of an epic story, I personally would've taken out most of the Templar stuff (saved it for expansion/DLC or used bits and pieces of it to hint of the coming chaos/war between the mages and the templars) but the main overall story would've focused on uniting countries of the Free Marches against the Qunari.

I wasn't overly fond of the Templar/Mage Civil War beginnings myself... but that's a torch the "middle game" has to really carry. It just felt like the game was hinting at it for ages, when it could have covered the topic rather quickly.

I'm hoping for a return to an epic scale in the third game. Where's Flemeth? What in the hell is Morrigan doing? What's going on with the Darkspawn?

 

[Matt]

I wasn't overly fond of the Templar/Mage Civil War beginnings myself... but that's a torch the "middle game" has to really carry. It just felt like the game was hinting at it for ages, when it could have covered the topic rather quickly.

There's the problem. The beginning of the war was tapped on. Once you kill the Qunari leader, the biggest dilemma of the first two acts is effectively resolved. The Templar/Mage war just kind feels like an epilogue which would've made it better for expansion, IMO.

I'm hoping for a return to an epic scale in the third game. Where's Flemeth? What in the hell is Morrigan doing? What's going on with the Darkspawn?

Well the Darkspawn only ever form armies when there is an archdemon (which is only once every few hundred years, right?). As for Morrigan and Flemeth, I too am curious. What does Morrigan intend to use the Warden's possessed baby for? And I too would like to know Flemeth's end game.

 

[iamlegend]

There's the problem. The beginning of the war was tapped on. Once you kill the Qunari leader, the biggest dilemma of the first two acts is effectively resolved. The Templar/Mage war just kind feels like an epilogue which would've made it better for expansion, IMO.



Well the Darkspawn only ever form armies when there is an archdemon (which is only once every few hundred years, right?). As for Morrigan and Flemeth, I too am curious. What does Morrigan intend to use the Warden's possessed baby for? And I too would like to know Flemeth's end game.

That's the catch, I think, and part of why it'll be hard to reincorporate her. Some players either never bothered procreating with Morrigan, or romanced her but refused to do the ritual (like my Warden did).

But yeah, I'd like to know what it's all building toward.

DA: O and its DLC ended with hints of some sort of epic and mystical story... and we got the Civil War instead. So we'll see where we go.

I'm honestly just not a fan of Civil War stories, because all they wind up being are fanatics throwing themselves at each other. I like nice, big, bad common enemies.

 

[Matt]

Why would anyone not make an evil little baby with Morrigan?

I think that Bioware doesn't really know what they're going to do with the alternate dimension and looming evil that both Morrigan and Flemeth have hinted at. They are basically repeating the KOTOR story. The hero disappears to fight off some big bad and leaves his friends looking for him. I'm not sure Bioware knows where to take it next.

 

[iamlegend]

Why would anyone not make an evil little baby with Morrigan?

I think that Bioware doesn't really know what they're going to do with the alternate dimension and looming evil that both Morrigan and Flemeth have hinted at. They are basically repeating the KOTOR story. The hero disappears to fight off some big bad and leaves his friends looking for him. I'm not sure Bioware knows where to take it next.

And, of course, they may not decide to take it anywhere. They may just leave it in mystery forever. Which would be a shame, at least for me.

And I chose not to make the God-Baby because, well... we don't need any more Old Gods running around, haha. So I turned Morrigan down and sent Logain to his death against the Archdemon. And then wandered off through the portal with her at the end of Witch Hunt, content to face whatever may come.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Morrigan = Claudia Black = me not refusing video game sex from her.

 

[iamlegend]

Morrigan = Claudia Black = me not refusing video game sex from her.

Haha, fair, fair.

All told, she was also arguably the deepest and most nuanced NPC we've seen so far (and if you played Origins a certain way, had quite a bit of character development)... which is part of why I'm surprised they never so much as really even mentioned her in the sequel.

Moving forward it'll be interesting to see if they EVER decide to come back to her... or if they ultimately just let just about all of what happened in Origins kind of fade away into the background.

 

[El Bastardo]

They didn't need to mention Morrigan in the sequel. They didn't even need to mention Flemeth in the sequel - that they did serves to keep her in memory, but also to account for one of the choices the player can make in DAO. Flemeth's cameo in DA2 is to keep her present in the world.

The thing that a lot of people don't seem to get is that, really, the Dragon Age games aren't about any particular player character or setting at all. DA2 caught a lot of flack because it wasn't epic, sure - not that it needed to be - but also because it wasn't about the Warden or about Ferelden, even after Gaider and Laidlaw stated time and time again that the point of the Dragon Age series was not about the Grey Wardens or that one little country.

The "main character" of the Dragon Age games is the entirety of Thedas, and the "main setting" of the Dragon Age games is the entire 100 year period. Each game has its cast of characters and primary protagonist and setting, yes, but the repercussions are not necessarily limited to those.

I see no reason to believe the team of writers would say "oh lulz, we totally can't figure out how to put Morrigan back in, I mean, there's only a few variables, this is too tough!"

 

[Soapy]

stuff

I don't think the game caught flack because it "wasn't epic", it caught flack because the game had no almost no plot whatsoever.

People didn't dislike it because it "wasn't Ferelden". They disliked it because the new place was dull and boring as hell.

 

[Wolfwood]

For the most part, I loved DA2. It had a few strengths that DA: O lacked, but then lost a lot that DA: O had. I think a marriage of the two would ultimately be the best of both worlds. With Bioware saying that they want to take a cue from Skyrim, hopefully that'll happen.

The dungeon thing pissed me off to no end though. When it suddenly dawned on me that I was in the same dungeon, just in a different entrance, I was hugely embarrassed for Bioware.

 

[iamlegend]

They didn't need to mention Morrigan in the sequel. They didn't even need to mention Flemeth in the sequel - that they did serves to keep her in memory, but also to account for one of the choices the player can make in DAO. Flemeth's cameo in DA2 is to keep her present in the world.

The thing that a lot of people don't seem to get is that, really, the Dragon Age games aren't about any particular player character or setting at all. DA2 caught a lot of flack because it wasn't epic, sure - not that it needed to be - but also because it wasn't about the Warden or about Ferelden, even after Gaider and Laidlaw stated time and time again that the point of the Dragon Age series was not about the Grey Wardens or that one little country.

The "main character" of the Dragon Age games is the entirety of Thedas, and the "main setting" of the Dragon Age games is the entire 100 year period. Each game has its cast of characters and primary protagonist and setting, yes, but the repercussions are not necessarily limited to those.

I see no reason to believe the team of writers would say "oh lulz, we totally can't figure out how to put Morrigan back in, I mean, there's only a few variables, this is too tough!"

I didn't say they had to - I said it was interesting that they chose not to.

Ultimately, I thought DA2 worked and enjoyed it overall... but I get why some folks didn't like it. And yeah, it had some elements that I didn't like either. And that DA2 was set in such a small environment, with plot points that were at times far from exciting... Was a part of it.

 

[El Bastardo]

I don't think the game caught flack because it "wasn't epic", it caught flack because the game had no almost no plot whatsoever.

People didn't dislike it because it "wasn't Ferelden". They disliked it because the new place was dull and boring as hell.

The game had a plot. To say it didn't is nearsighted at best, and blind at worst. Just because something isn't traditional doesn't make it not present.

And yes, it did catch flack because it wasn't epic, and because it wasn't about Ferelden. BioWare forums, where conventional wisdom... disappears.

For the most part, I loved DA2. It had a few strengths that DA: O lacked, but then lost a lot that DA: O had. I think a marriage of the two would ultimately be the best of both worlds. With Bioware saying that they want to take a cue from Skyrim, hopefully that'll happen.

The dungeon thing pissed me off to no end though. When it suddenly dawned on me that I was in the same dungeon, just in a different entrance, I was hugely embarrassed for Bioware.

I've never really cared about recycled environs, because - well, the because of it is rather inconsequential. It bothers some people, and that's all well and good. I can see why it might detract, but not to the monumental level some people make it out to be.

As for the first part - why should there be a marriage? DA2 was not intended to be like DAO. Sure, if a third game came out that was intended to be an in-between point, okay, marriage of the two games, sure.

But I'd rather a game have a feel unique to its vision and intent, rather than a rehash of **** that might work because it worked before. Kind of like when an author tries a new narrative style to fit a new book, or a poet for a poem. Or a comics artist for different comics.

I didn't say they had to - I said it was interesting that they chose not to.

Ultimately, I thought DA2 worked and enjoyed it overall... but I get why some folks didn't like it. And yeah, it had some elements that I didn't like either. And that DA2 was set in such a small environment, with plot points that were at times far from exciting... Was a part of it.

I... didn't say you didn't say they had to. So there.

 

[zenith16]

actually most peoples complaints were about the game was about the "game play." they just didn't like that it became more actiony type game for those that play role player games that are used to "turn base game play" and didn't want to get it through their head that's what Bioware was trying to do from the beginning was a hybrid.

the thing is also the combat in the second game. cause bioware was still working the action part was too easy to breeze through for most players (so they claim) and that kinda killed it for DA2. this is why I've been suggesting they should have the KOA guys help them out for the third game. their just having balancing issues.

 

[Fading]

It's a shame to see all the hate for 2. I LOVED origins, and have played it through several times. I was looking forward to 2 quite a bit, but put it on the backburner when it came out due to real life stuff. Then I saw all the hate, and some awesome games have come out since. I did finally buy a used copy for cheap (and might get the DLC after I read reviews for them). However it's still going to stay on my shelf for awhile. Just bugs me, because while I'm sure 2's not horrible, and 3 will probably rock (if they listen to major complaints), it always sucks to be so hyped for a new franchise only to see it start limping the second track. Then again Bioshock 1 to 2 seemed to be in a similar spot (ppl loving 1, not so much 2), and now everyone seems to be loving all things Bioshock again.

 

[iamlegend]

It's a shame to see all the hate for 2. I LOVED origins, and have played it through several times. I was looking forward to 2 quite a bit, but put it on the backburner when it came out due to real life stuff. Then I saw all the hate, and some awesome games have come out since. I did finally buy a used copy for cheap (and might get the DLC after I read reviews for them). However it's still going to stay on my shelf for awhile. Just bugs me, because while I'm sure 2's not horrible, and 3 will probably rock (if they listen to major complaints), it always sucks to be so hyped for a new franchise only to see it start limping the second track. Then again Bioshock 1 to 2 seemed to be in a similar spot (ppl loving 1, not so much 2), and now everyone seems to be loving all things Bioshock again.

Well it's not uncommon for a sequel to get a mixed response, in any form of media.

 

[Wolfwood]

I've never really cared about recycled environs, because - well, the because of it is rather inconsequential. It bothers some people, and that's all well and good. I can see why it might detract, but not to the monumental level some people make it out to be.

As for the first part - why should there be a marriage? DA2 was not intended to be like DAO. Sure, if a third game came out that was intended to be an in-between point, okay, marriage of the two games, sure.

But I'd rather a game have a feel unique to its vision and intent, rather than a rehash of **** that might work because it worked before. Kind of like when an author tries a new narrative style to fit a new book, or a poet for a poem. Or a comics artist for different comics.

I think it's a bigger deal. The game takes place in one place and then recycles the same couple of dungeons? If there are going to be only a few environments then they should probably do their best to make those stand out.

I don't see what the problem is with there being a marriage. If you have two great games that have unique elements that are both beneficial and negative, then why not try to utilize the positive elements in both games to create something better? Using your example it would be like pairing a new writer with a classic artist for a comic book. And it wouldn't be a rehash since the combined elements make for a new experience.

 

[Matt]

I just had a thought:

If the Warden dies in Dragon Age Origins, who is Leliana looking for at the end of DA2?

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

The Orlesian Warden from Awakening to my knowledge.

 

[Matt]

MAkes sense, though he never really seemed as important. He just fought off a small army of Dark Spawn.

 

[Matt]

I'm thinking that I may replay Origins in the near future. Dunno which character I'll pick though. My first play through I was the human noble. I'll probably end up doing the same thing. I've considered being an elf, but it looks weird for my main character to be a foot shorter than everyone else.

 

[Soapy]

Dwarf Noble! Best origin in the game.

PS - Is Awakening and the other DLC worth playing?