Ant-Man Edgar Wright Leaves Ant-Man!! - Part 1

[Rock Sexton]

^You know nothing either though Rock, he could be right on point. And did you not think Pegg was simply being diplomatic? He said its Marvel's loss after all.

And Gunn is going to say anything bad when he has a movie coming out in a couple of months from the same studio.

I'm not the one making over-the-top predictions about what happened. I'm using evidence placed before me from two people closer to the situation than you are. Yet, you find these absurd excuses to marginalize what they've spelled out for you. Ya, ok buddy you know more sitting their in your mother's basement than James Gunn or Simon Pegg about the situation. Makes complete sense.

Funny how you'll sit there and proclaim Gunn as speaking nicely because he has a movie coming out, but Simon Pegg doesn't have any kind of dog in this fight right? After making how many movies with Wright? Oh wait ......

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

See that's where your whole argument falls apart. It doesn't matter how much Edgar wanted to or did not want to go over the top with the character. All that mattered is if it was in-line with what Marvel wanted for their universe.

That's it. End of story. It's their business and the standalone films are not greater than the sum of the story of they're telling. That runs the same for any other director they bring aboard. If they cannot adhere to that policy they can see the door, whether it be Patty Jenkins (who was a director for T:TDW for what seemed like 24 hours) or Edgar Wright. Marvel has shown that OVERALL they know what they're doing and have done an absolutely amazing job building the brand of their movie studio.

Only to you they have done an amazing job, to a lot of others they havent. They have made some really good movies, but even then they havent made something truly great because they are always missing something. Their movies are making money now but if they dont improve one day they will stop making money.

Some fans like me just want them to improve and find a middle ground, especially with directors like Wright who have never made a bad movie critically.

They cant seem to do that, its their way or the highway (which funnily enough, mirrors the attitude of your posts) which eventually is going to come back and bite them on the ass.

Fox were doing something similar between 2004-2009 (though they were much worse than Marvel are now) and eventually their movies stopped making money. But thankfully they have recovered from it, learned their lesson, and have put out some great movies in the last few years. Marvel hasnt seemed to learn their lesson yet which is a worry.

I'm not the one making over-the-top predictions about what happened. I'm using evidence placed before me from two people closer to the situation than you are. Yet, you find these absurd excuses to marginalize what they've spelled out for you. Ya, ok buddy you know more sitting their in your mother's basement than James Gunn or Simon Pegg about the situation. Makes complete sense.

Funny how you'll sit there and proclaim Gunn as speaking nicely because he has a movie coming out, but Simon Pegg doesn't have any kind of dog in this fight right? Oh wait ......

I did say both Pegg and Gunn were being diplomatic, as is often the case with people in Hollywood. Gunn is likely to be more so. It would help if you read what I said and think about it logically instead of jumping into your fanboy rage defence mode. But thats obviously too much to hope for with you.

But you are making over the top predictions, you jumping to the defence of Marvel and assuming they are not at fault is the same as us jumping to Wrights defence. You took Marvel's side in this before anyone commented on it.

But lets look at some evidence. Edgar Wright, never been proclaimed as difficult to work with, Marvel Studio's have upset many directors and actors in the past a few of whom have never worked with them again, who is likely to be more at fault based on that evidence?

But again, I know you wont think about this and just go into blind fanboy rage mode.

 

[Mysteryman]

Baseless conjecture from someone who knows absolutely nothing about what happened behind closed doors. Wright's own close friend Simon Pegg spelled it out for you .... as did James Gunn prior to this.

I did not claim to know anything that happened behind closed doors.
I just expressed my opinion of what MAY have happened .
And saying that I think there might be more to it does not mean Marvel or Wright did anything bad just that there might be more going than we know and since we know very little ,I think that is at least possible .

 

[Rock Sexton]

I did not claim to know anything that happen behind closed doors.
I just expressed my opinion of what MAY have happened .
And saying that i think there might be more to it does not mean Marvel or Wright did anything bad just might be more going than we know and since we know very little ,I think that is at least possible .

Anything is possible. There's no point in speculating when you have two people close to the situation spelling it out for us.

I don't understand why people have this unquenchable thirst for a more complicated reason.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Only to you they have done an amazing job, to a lot of others they havent. They have made some really good movies, but even then they havent made something truly great because they are always missing something. Their movies are making money now but if they dont improve one day they will stop making money.

Some fans like me just want them to improve and find a middle ground, especially with directors like Wright who have never made a bad movie critically.

They cant seem to do that, its their way or the highway (which funnily enough, mirrors the attitude of your posts) which eventually is going to come back and bite them on the ass.

One day they will stop making money? See people like yourself love to hide behind that "infinity' argument ...... as if it means your wild speculation has any merit. When you're Marvel studios and you have a brand that's working with most people not named AVEITWITHJAMON, then it does not matter what some auteur director wants to do with the movie. Marvel carries as much clout right now in movie making decisions as Edgar does, if not more. Edgar Wright is simply a cult favorite of a small contingent of nerds.

Fox were doing something similar between 2004-2009 (though they were much worse than Marvel are now) and eventually their movies stopped making money. But thankfully they have recovered from it, learned their lesson, and have put out some great movies in the last few years. Marvel hasnt seemed to learn their lesson yet which is a worry.

I did say both Pegg and Gunn were being diplomatic, as is often the case with people in Hollywood. Gunn is likely to be more so. It would help if you read what I said and think about it logically instead of jumping into your fanboy rage defence mode. But thats obviously too much to hope for with you.

But you are making over the top predictions, you jumping to the defence of Marvel and assuming they are not at fault is the same as us jumping to Wrights defence. You took Marvel's side in this before anyone commented on it.

But lets look at some evidence. Edgar Wright, never been proclaimed as difficult to work with, Marvel Studio's have upset many directors and actors in the past a few of whom have never worked with them again, who is likely to be more at fault based on that evidence?

But again, I know you wont think about this and just go into blind fanboy rage mode.

No no no ..... you quoted Pegg's comment about it being Marvel's loss as if it carried more weight than Gunn's comments, which aside from that one sentence everything the two guys said matched up. Also, Marvel has never made the mistakes Fox has, another unfounded accusation. My argument has never been Wright is difficult to work with. Hear me again:

MARVEL WANTS THEIR MOVES DONE THEIR WAY! IF THE DIRECTOR CANNOT ADHERE TO THAT THAN TOO BAD SO SORRY.

They know their own brand better than these directors do. It's their job to find someone who shares their same visions as this is a universe they're building not singular theme for one franchise. You can't understand that because you're in "angry contrarian" mode.

 

[Mysteryman]

Anything is possible. There's no point in speculating when you have two people close to the situation spelling it out for us.

I don't understand why people have this unquenchable thirst for a more complicated reason.

Gunn made an analogy.
Pegg used words like Perhaps and Maybe, he was speculating too , they both are.
As am I .

 

[Rock Sexton]

Gunn made an analogy.
Pegg used words like Perhaps and Maybe, he was speculating too , they both are.
As am I .

Speculating like you? Ya, no.

One is a director who sits in those Marvel think tanks with the other directors. The other is a close confidant of Wright's and has done numerous films with him. They know more than you do. Accept it.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

One day they will stop making money? See people like yourself love to hide behind that "infinity' argument ...... as if it means your wild speculation has any merit. When you're Marvel studios and you have a brand that's working with most people not named AVEITWITHJAMON, then it does not matter what some auteur director wants to do with the movie. Marvel carries as much clout right now in movie making decisions as Edgar does, if not more. Edgar Wright is simply a cult favorite of a small contingent of nerds.

But Edgar Wright has a reputation for making good movies, then they replaced him with a guy who has anything but. As I said Marvel making these decision's will eventually bite them on the ass. They seem to have this attitude at the moment that they know everything, similar to you funnily enough, and in Hollywood that attitude eventually gets people in trouble.

No no no ..... you quoted Pegg's comment about it being Marvel's loss as if it carried more weight than Gunn's comments, which aside from that one sentence everything the two guys said matched up. Also, Marvel has never made the mistakes Fox has, another unfounded accusation. My argument has never been Wright is difficult to work with. Hear me again:

MARVEL WANTS THEIR MOVES DONE THEIR WAY! IF THE DIRECTOR CANNOT ADHERE TO THAT THAN TOO BAD SO SORRY.

I simply quoted the comment, I never said either one had more merit than the other. You just jumped into blind fanboy defensive mode as usual. My point was people are diplomatic in Hollywood, at least for a few years. I think Pegg's comments were overall diplomatic but that one seemed to have a bit more to it. And again Gunn is going to say anything bad against Marvel now is he?

They know their own brand better than these directors do. It's their job to find someone who shares their same visions as this is a universe they're building not singular theme for one franchise. You can't understand that because you're in "angry contrarian" mode.

And how many bad movies have come about because Studio's supposedly "know their own brand better than the directors do?" The answer is a lot, Marvel havent made what I would categorise as a bad movie yet, but some of them have been well on their way towards that.

And i'm not angry, I express concerns, you are the guy jumping down peoples throats with the stinking attitude and insults. And I know I am not the only guy you do this to. Again you feel its your duty for some reason to jump to Marvels defence of any criticism with insults and petty comments instead of just having a normal conversation about it.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Gunn made an analogy.
Pegg used words like Perhaps and Maybe, he was speculating too , they both are.
As am I .

Dont you dare talk sense here MM.

 

[Rock Sexton]

But Edgar Wright has a reputation for making good movies, then they replaced him with a guy who has anything but. As I said Marvel making these decision's will eventually bite them on the ass. They seem to have this attitude at the moment that they know everything, similar to you funnily enough, and in Hollywood that attitude eventually gets people in trouble.

Oh give me a break. You're just as steadfast in your opinion as I am. I'm not the one sitting here digging for reasons outside of what we've been presented by two people closer to the situation than any person on this site. Marvel doesn't know "everything" ..... but they do know everything about their brand. You seem to not be able to logically make that distinction.

I simply quoted the comment, I never said either one had more merit than the other. You just jumped into blind fanboy defensive mode as usual. My point was people are diplomatic in Hollywood, at least for a few years. I think Pegg's comments were overall diplomatic but that one seemed to have a bit more to it. And again Gunn is going to say anything bad against Marvel now is he?

Blah blah blah, more "you're a fanboy" antagonism. Both Gunn and Pegg both said the visions weren't in-line with what Marvel wanted. Your suggestion that Gunn is watching his own back by making those comments is not relevant. He went out of his way to post that on his own FB. Regardless, why is it he's being diplomatic, but Pegg's comment carries more weight with you? I'll tell you why: CONTRADICTION.

And how many bad movies have come about because Studio's supposedly "know their own brand better than the directors do?" The answer is a lot, Marvel havent made what I would categorise as a bad movie yet, but some of them have been well on their way towards that.

And i'm not angry, I express concerns, you are guy jumping down peoples throats with the stinking attitude and insults. And I know I am not the only guy you do this to. Again you feel its your duty for some reason to jump to Marvels defence of any criticism with insults and petty comments instead of just having a normal conversation about it.

Nobody cares what your opinion is over their entire body of work. Marvel knows more about this business than you do. I only comment because you're a cynic. It gets tiresome reading the same negativity over and over again when the body of work in the MCU has been an astounding success. We're talking about a movie studio that has become a goliath since 2008's release of Iron Man. I know you want to pretend to know more about the dynamics of movie making though. I was once a big detractor of Kevin Feige's ways, but man has he won me over.

Btw, this whole conversation is ironic. Remember when I told you I was on Feige's butt for his treatment of TIH and Norton. I present to you a case you made for Norton not being asked to return ..... in your words you claimed:

I dont why this would be up to the fans, surely its a studio and actor decision, but anyway, yes I would like him back.

So it's ok for the studio to not retain a man who supposedly had a reputation for wanting major creative control, but it's not ok to let go of Wright if he doesn't adhere to their vision? In what world?

 

[Rock Sexton]

Dont you dare talk sense here MM.

Only in your world does it makes sense that your brand of speculation is on the level of Gunn's and Pegg's knowledge of the situation.

 

[metaphysician]

Juvenile? You mean like your insinuation?

Anybody who eagerly hopes for swearing and nudity deserves the adjective.

 

[kosh33]

Marvel have worked hard to build up their universe and their vision of their characters.. whoever comes in to direct has their freedom to use their skills to convey the story to the end point that the studio wants..
if the director cant do it, then its only best that he leaves..
the studio is not at fault since they have more stories to tell and one movie cannot be more important than the whole story

 

[Rock Sexton]

Marvel have worked hard to build up their universe and their vision of their characters.. whoever comes in to direct has their freedom to use their skills to convey the story to the end point that the studio wants..
if the director cant do it, then its only best that he leaves..
the studio is not at fault since they have more stories to tell and one movie cannot be more important than the whole story

I've tried to relay this to a certain someone who apparently believe Edgar Wright's visions for a freaking Ant-Man movie overrides the entire MCU and what they have set in place.

 

[kosh33]

I hope some of the connectivity was to make Hank Pym a part of ultron's creation.. or atleast a part of the avengers 2 or future storylines

 

[Rock Sexton]

For good laughs and also because AVEIT doesn't believe I once had beef with Marvel, this was a comment I made on 7/11/2010 in one of the Avengers speculation threads:

Feige has gotten too cocky .... all based on one ultra successful, surprise film in IM, which is LARGELY carried by RDJ. From the stories we've heard about negotiations about guys like Howard, Favs, Rourke, Norton, Jackson, etc. etc. I'll be surprised if this studio doesn't start to lose a little steam. The fad of hero movies isn't going to be long enough to make these people want to bend over for Feige and his arrogant handlings.

It's crazy because suddenly WB is starting to look a whole lot rosier, especially now that they've got Nolan on board helping out the Superman camp.

Oops ...... btw who do I sound like there? LOL

Feige and the whole Marvel Studios team have won me over with everything that's transpired since basically Thor's release. Albeit I still maintain some of the public comments Feige made after the Norton negotiations broke down were uncalled for.

 

[Mysteryman]

I know that it would NEVER Happen,
But, I would love to see a double interview with Edgar Wright and Kevin Feige .

 

[Dark Raven]

I know that it would NEVER Happen,
But, I would love to see a double interview with Edgar Wright and Kevin Feige .

It will probably be at least 8 years before Wright gives an interview, or at least comes up with answers.

 

[kosh33]

^
Haha.. he might get busy with some project and postpone it even more

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Oh give me a break. You're just as steadfast in your opinion as I am. I'm not the one sitting here digging for reasons outside of what we've been presented by two people closer to the situation than any person on this site. Marvel doesn't know "everything" ..... but they do know everything about their brand. You seem to not be able to logically make that distinction.

Way hey! Thankyou for making my point, we are both steadfast in our opinions, thats been my point all along.

The difference is I accept differing opinions were as you speak as you are the grace of god himself. For some reason you feel it your duty to come into every Marvel thread and defend them from EVERY negative comments. Even here, now, me and MM were talking to each other about what we think happened with Wright, and you had to come in and turn it into a Marvel vs thread like you ALWAYS do.

Blah blah blah, more "you're a fanboy" antagonism. Both Gunn and Pegg both said the visions weren't in-line with what Marvel wanted. Your suggestion that Gunn is watching his own back by making those comments is not relevant. He went out of his way to post that on his own FB. Regardless, why is it he's being diplomatic, but Pegg's comment carries more weight with you? I'll tell you why: CONTRADICTION.

Neither comments carry more weight than the other to me, as I have said MULTIPLE times, people are overly diplomatic in Hollywood with these things. Yet according to you actors and directors always speak the truth, which is complete and utter horse ****.

Nobody cares what your opinion is over their entire body of work. Marvel knows more about this business than you do. I only comment because you're a cynic. It gets tiresome reading the same negativity over and over again when the body of work in the MCU has been an astounding success. We're talking about a movie studio that has become a goliath since 2008's release of Iron Man. I know you want to pretend to know more about the dynamics of movie making though. I was once a big detractor of Kevin Feige's ways, but man has he won me over.

But again, why do you feel its your duty to reply to EVERY negative comment, and turn these things into a big argument. You join conversations which have nothing to do with you just so you can defend Marvel. It ruins multiple threads, you wanna be positive, fine. But you are over the top fanboy nerd rage personified on here. Thats why everyone of your comments turns into a big argument which clogs up the threads.

You dont see me or anyone else coming in here and quoting every positive comment and trying to cause an argument about it. You just cant look at things objectively, you cant accept not every one loves Marvel like you do, lighten the **** up and realise its a DISCUSSION board and not only your point of view matters.

Btw, this whole conversation is ironic. Remember when I told you I was on Feige's butt for his treatment of TIH and Norton. I present to you a case you made for Norton not being asked to return ..... in your words you claimed:



So it's ok for the studio to not retain a man who supposedly had a reputation for wanting major creative control, but it's not ok to let go of Wright if he doesn't adhere to their vision? In what world?

Wow, did you really just dig up a post from 4 years ago to use in an argument against me? DESPERATION, look the word up.

But i'll play along, at the time, Norton had a reputation for being difficult to work with, Marvel did not, so I came to the logical conclusion AT THE TIME that Norton was more at fault than Marvel.

Now I am doing the EXACT same thing with Wright and Marvel, coming to thelogical conclusion that the party with the reputation for being difficult are at fault. See how that works?

Also, I am not stating facts, just speculating, another word you seem to have a hard time grasping.

We have since learned Norton was willing to come back and Marvel didnt want him, which again is 50/50 situation between the two of them and not something I particularly blame Marvel or Norton for.

My beef with Marvel in regard to TIH is the cut they released of the movie, which was THEIR cut and not the directors.

So, in closing, look up the words desperation and speculation, and your time on this board will be a lot easier.

 

[TheVision]

Marvel has an established universe set up, if someone comes in and tries to do a standalone movie at the beginning of Phase 3 when everything is going full blast to Avengers 3, it probably wont work. Edgar probably wanted just that, Marvel didnt/couldnt. You either adapt to what they need or you take the train. Edgar chose the latter. That doesnt mean Wright is a bad filmmaker, it just means he wasnt right for Marvel at this time.

Again, Im on Marvels side simply because I care more about them choosing not to ruin what they have going just to appease one guy. They simply cant do that. Its about an entire universe over one persons quirky ideas.

Pick a side. If you choose Edgar, youre saying Marvel is wrong for sticking to the plan. Thats why I disagreed with Edgar fans from the start.

 

[Mysteryman]

There are two sides to every story .
You do not need to pick a side .

 

[Rock Sexton]

Way hey! Thankyou for making my point, we are both steadfast in our opinions, thats been my point all along.

The difference is I accept differing opinions were as you speak as you are the grace of god himself. For some reason you feel it your duty to come into every Marvel thread and defend them from EVERY negative comments. Even here, now, me and MM were talking to each other about what we think happened with Wright, and you had to come in and turn it into a Marvel vs thread like you ALWAYS do.

Originally I wasn't even talking to you. I initially responded to Mystery about his post and you singled out my comments to him. That's what precipitated this newest rousing discussion about impending Marvel doom you've offered me.

Proof: http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=29045735&postcount=874

Me defending Marvel from your baseless accusations does not translate to defending every negative comment about Marvel. Although at times it does feel like you're on every one of their MCU threads finding something new to parade around with a pitchfork and torch about.

Neither comments carry more weight than the other to me, as I have said MULTIPLE times, people are overly diplomatic in Hollywood with these things. Yet according to you actors and directors always speak the truth, which is complete and utter horse ****.

You are so contradictory and intellectually dishonest it's not even funny. The following were your comments:
________________________________________________________________
"I simply quoted the comment, I never said either one had more merit than the other. You just jumped into blind fanboy defensive mode as usual. My point was people are diplomatic in Hollywood, at least for a few years. I think Pegg's comments were overall diplomatic but that one seemed to have a bit more to it. And again Gunn is going to say anything bad against Marvel now is he?"
________________________________________________________________

If one doesn't carry more weight than the other, than how could Pegg (in your own words) "seem to have a bit more to it"???????? Is that some Chinese riddle?

You keep throwing generalities like "actors and directors don't always tell the truth" to marginalize peoples' comments who have a direct line to the situation, which you don't have. You rant, rave, and throw tantrums that you know more about what went down than Simon Pegg and James Gunn.

But again, why do you feel its your duty to reply to EVERY negative comment, and turn these things into a big argument. You join conversations which have nothing to do with you just so you can defend Marvel. It ruins multiple threads, you wanna be positive, fine. But you are over the top fanboy nerd rage personified on here. Thats why everyone of your comments turns into a big argument which clogs up the threads.

You dont see me or anyone else coming in here and quoting every positive comment and trying to cause an argument about it. You just cant look at things objectively, you cant accept not every one loves Marvel like you do, lighten the **** up and realise its a DISCUSSION board and not only your point of view matters.

I only come to the defense of Marvel when I feel absurd comments are being made such as yours. You're everywhere in almost every thread casting your cynicism over almost every new Marvel tentpole.

You're just as much responsible for long drawn out arguments as I am. You've responded to every one of my replies so do not even attempt to play the innocent here. You just can't handle the fact that there are people who don't care for your dishonest ways.

Wow, did you really just dig up a post from 4 years ago to use in an argument against me? DESPERATION, look the word up.

But i'll play along, at the time, Norton had a reputation for being difficult to work with, Marvel did not, so I came to the logical conclusion AT THE TIME that Norton was more at fault than Marvel.

Now I am doing the EXACT same thing with Wright and Marvel, coming to thelogical conclusion that the party with the reputation for being difficult are at fault. See how that works?

Also, I am not stating facts, just speculating, another word you seem to have a hard time grasping.

We have since learned Norton was willing to come back and Marvel didnt want him, which again is 50/50 situation between the two of them and not something I particularly blame Marvel or Norton for.

My beef with Marvel in regard to TIH is the cut they released of the movie, which was THEIR cut and not the directors.

So, in closing, look up the words desperation and speculation, and your time on this board will be a lot easier.

You called me a blind fanboy as if I grew up reading Marvel comics and have loved every second of everything they've ever one as a film studio. It couldn't be further from the truth if you actually took time to read the comments ......... but just like how you marginalized Gunn's and Pegg's words about the Wright situation, you're once again attempting to do it with this matter and it's laughable.

I gave you direct examples of a the time when I was in complete disagreement with Feige and Co. (since you insinuated it's not possible) and you stubbornly refuse it. That seems to be your lot in life.

Your comments about TIH were: "It's the studios and actors decision". Yet you're on here lambasting Marvel for their decision when it comes to Wright. CONTRADICTION MUCH? What you call speculation is BASELESS CONJECTURE in lieu of relevant information coming from people close to the situation that disprove anything you've cried about.

 

[Human Torch]

It will probably be at least 8 years before Wright gives an interview, or at least comes up with answers.

 

[TheVision]

Theres some very fancy quote/comment action going on this topic!