Exclusive Interview with Don Payne!

[MattC]

I've just posted the first part of an interview that I conducted with Don Payne recently. I've split it into two parts as he spoke about the film in quite a lot of depth. I even managed to get him to address some of the aspects of the movie that have caused fans most concern, I know that one particular question that many have been asking will be answered in part two.

We had the great pleasure of meeting screenwriter Don Payne (The Simpsons, My Super-ex Girlfriend) last November whilst visiting the set of Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer. The movie is now out in theaters, and so we thought we would catch up with Don and discuss the film a little further with him.

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Can you talk about how you went about writing this film? 20th Century Fox has just offered you the film to write; how do you tackle a project like that?
You work closely with the director, the studio, and the producer. You try to give them what they want, while making sure it’s everything you loved about the FF – the action, the great characters, the gadgets, the dramatic and comedic moments, etc.

I had met with Marvel, Fox, and Tim Story individually long before I was hired to write the sequel. When they came to me and asked if I was interested in writing this, I was really intrigued because they wanted to include the SIlver Surfer this time around. They mentioned a few of the elements they wanted to include -- Doom, Silver Surfer, a wedding, etc. I came back to them with my take on the stuff they wanted to include in the story, and, after a little back and forth, I was hired on.

They had given me a 1 1/4 page beatsheet -- an outline of very broad story beats -- which they were interested in. I believe this is what had been worked on with the studio, director Tim Story, Marvel, and -- what I eventually found out -- Mark Frost, who had been hired before me. I revised it, added my own stuff, and then went on to write the first draft of my screenplay.

I did not see any other outlines, treatments, or screenplays by Mark Frost or any other writer while I was writing the movie. After I turned in my first draft, I was the only writer on the project, and I rewrote exclusively from my own first draft, writing multiple drafts throughout the course of production.

For the record, the official writing credits on the movie are "Story by John Turman and Mark Frost, Screenplay by Don Payne and Mark Frost."

Did the requirements of the story handed to you by the studio dictate certain pieces - for example, the use of the government and the bunker in Siberia, or the entire wedding sequence?
No. The use of the military was something that's a convention of science fiction films when dealing with an alien threat. We've seen the military respond to extraterrestrials in movies from The Day the Earth Stood Still to Independence Day. It just made sense that the military would be involved in a threat to the security of the country and the world. And I thought it would be an interesting situation for the FF to be caught in an uneasy alliance with Doom and the military.

I had met with Tim Story as he was finishing the first film and we talked about how great it would be to see the wedding in the next film and have it attacked by a supervillain -- as in the comics. Actually, in the comics, it was a huge number of supervillains trying to disrupt the wedding, all orchestrated by Doom. But, of course, it just made sense to include the wedding, because Reed and Sue got engaged at the end of the first film. And all Marvel comic book weddings wind up in a big action sequence.

So was it your idea for the helicopter crashing into the wedding, or was that part of the beat sheet?
It was not part of the beat sheet. The beat sheet was comprised of broad story beats. It said things like "Reed and Sue wedding" with no details.

My first draft had the helicopter crash to the rooftop during the wedding. It was Tim Story's idea to have the blades spinning through and chopping through the chairs and spectators. I thought he did a great job with that scene.

What do you feel was the biggest challenge of writing this film?
I think it was to try to make a film which was true to the spirit of the Fantastic Four comics. I wanted to write a film that was better than the first film, but, to do that, you had to use how everything was set up in the first film as a starting point and take it to a new level. But that wasn't just true of the writing. Everyone wanted to make that rare sequel that was better than the original, especially Tim Story.

How difficult was it to write the Surfer, as a being from a completely alien race, as compared to the other human characters in the movie?
It was a challenge. The Surfer is hard because he's such a complex character. We also wanted him to be mysterious -- a man of few words.

Was he more difficult to write than other characters in the film? Even given the small amount of lines he had? Did you find yourself constantly rewriting them, or did they just sort of come to you?
Everything he said had to be powerful and elegant and enigmatic. It was a challenge. It's not like you can just put a joke in the character's mouth. But I was determined to make every line of dialogue he had true to his character as established in the comics.

Before it was Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer, did you have any titles in mind for the movie?
I just wrote it under the working title of Fantastic Four 2 -- which was never going to be the title because the feeling is that using a number in the title of a sequel is kind of lame. I think Rise of the Silver Surfer was better than any of the other possibilities out there. Although I pitched the idea of Fantastic Four: Doomsday, as I believe a few others had as well. That would have been good too.

What was the process like when the movie went into production? Were you involved on the set during filming?
Because I had a fulltime writing gig on The Simpsons, I couldn’t be on the set during production in Vancouver. However, I was able to get up there for three weeks right before production started, and I wrote some new scenes and reworked some others. It was a thrill to see this enormous production gearing up. During production, I would stay in contact with Tim Story via phone and e-mail. Whenever he needed a change or an alternate line of dialogue, I would turn it around quickly and shoot it back to him. So it all worked out.

Let’s say production is underway, you've submitted what may be a more-or-less final 'shooting script', and there's negative response from fans to information that leaks out. How do you feel about that, in the sense that it might be "too late" to change something that people are responding to poorly?
You can’t go by how people react to leaked information, because they’re not getting the whole picture. They’re not seeing it in context. You also can't change things based on fan reaction, because the fanbase is not some monolithic entity. As you know, there are lots of disagreements among the fans about what they want in a film, because they're all individuals, and the FF is such a personal thing to them.

I think there's too much of an obsession with rumors, leaked information, spy reports, etc. I know it's old-fashioned, but I think people should experience a film the way it's meant to be experienced -- in the theater after it's completed.

But, to be honest, I'm also guilty of jumping the gun and rushing to judgment based on rumors and leaked information. I was against the organic webshooters in the first Spider-Man when I heard about it. But it worked just fine in the movie and, actually, I realized it made a lot more sense story-wise. It's kind of a stretch that a high school kid (even a science prodigy like Peter Parker) could create this amazing chemical web substance -- a kid who also, coincidentally, has been given powers by a radioactive spider.

It seemed like Johnny’s power transfer was a little inconsistent at the end when he took on everyone’s abilities.
Well, in some of the earlier drafts, we actually saw him absorb more than one power when he touched more than one member of the team. But it was determined it was cleaner to see him just absorb one of each of the team members' powers until the end -- and it would be more of a surprise to see him take on all their powers at once.

The idea was that he was the conduit of the power switching, and by touching all of them at once, the switching went back and forth between him and the other members of the team, over and over again, going back and forth, building in intensity until he absorbed all their powers. Originally, it was Reed's idea, based on his analysis of Johnny's problem and what was conceivably possible if he were to touch all three of them at the same time.

Why did you use Sue as the characters who connects to the Silver Surfer, rather than Alicia?
The FF did a lot of globe trekking in this film. It made no sense that Alicia would go with them. In the comics, the Surfer fell into Alicia's apartment and bonded with her. But in this film, the FF were in the Black Forest of Germany and a military base in Siberia, or flying in the Fantasticar when Sue had her bonding moments with him. Practically, Alicia just wouldn't be there to do it. And I thought that Sue Storm was an empathetic character who was also capable of seeing the humanity within the Surfer.

That said, I think Kerry Washington is a great actress and I love the character of Alicia. I hope she will have a more instrumental part to play if there's another sequel. Especially if we use a certain relative of Alicia's.

We agree about Kerry. Did you intend to use Alicia as an external point of view for the audience to relate to?
I'm hoping that people can relate to all of the characters. But that's the great thing about Alicia. She has no powers, and she's living amongst these superheroes. But she's an incredible person who's got her own strengths.

How did you originally visualize Galactus? You have mentioned in previous interviews that he was written in a way that wouldn't rule out his appearance in any of his many physical comic-book forms in future films.
Galactus was written as a powerful force of nature -- a giant being of both energy and organic matter. I wanted to leave him a bit vague, really, because I knew that Tim would have ideas, and he'd want to try out different things with the visual effects crew. But it was important to me, as you've said, that it be done in a way that would not rule out any future manifestation of Galactus in any future film. Even something closer to the original Kirby 616 version. And I think this film leaves all possibilities open.

But didn't Galactus get destroyed by the Silver Surfer at the end of the movie?
Is the Surfer dead? It doesn't look like it. Is Galactus? Maybe. That's not my decision at this point. Nobody seems to stay dead in the Mavel comics universe! But, even if he WAS dead, that doesn't mean the SILVER SURFER film wouldn't go back and tell the Surfer's origin, where we'd see Galactus in all his glory. To be honest, I don't know what Fox's plans are with the Surfer.

Would you say there is the possibility that Galactus might have been transported to another universe perhaps?
I'd say anything is possible, isn't it? I don't mean to be coy. I just think there are many ways to interpret the end of the film.

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Check back tomorrow for the second part of the interview!

http://www.f4movies.com/interviews/581.shtml

Hope you enjoy it!

 

[Spider-Fan]

I like how he is vague on the fate of the Devourer of Worlds.

Hope we see him in the SS spin-off Alive and mad, or course.

 

[Bishop2]

Very cool! I can't wait to read the rest. I liked what he had to say about keeping Galactus intentionally vague. It's also really interesting that he had such vague constraints put on him. Compare that against what the screenwriters had to to deal with writing X3 - which was literally pages and pages of rules. I'm glad Payne was given so much creative freedom. It also helps when a film has a single strong voice behind the script. The first film was a case of too many cooks. Payne alone handled most of this one's duties.

 

[Grog]

Sounds like Payne deserves a lot more of the credit for the writing of this film than he was officially given. Don't want to read too much into it but it sounds like Frost gave in a draft and then got taken off of the project.

 

[Bishop2]

Sounds like Payne deserves a lot more of the credit for the writing of this film than he was officially given. Don't want to read too much into it but it sounds like Frost gave in a draft and then got taken off of the project.

I remember hearing that there was one draft handed in with the Silver Surfer and another draft with the Puppet Master. The fact that Payne was originally the only screenwriter credited also made me suspicious.

 

[Tony Stark]

Wow, great interview. Really insightfull.

 

[MattC]

Wow, great interview. Really insightfull.

Thanks! I'll be posting the second part within the next hour, I'll post once it is up.

 

[Eros]

Payne wrote such a average script.

 

[Bishop2]

Payne wrote such a average script.

In your estimation.

I thought it was pretty freaking gangbusters. Considering the vague constraints he was given, I'm really impressed with his inventions.

 

[Eros]

In your estimation.

I thought it was pretty freaking gangbusters. Considering the vague constraints he was given, I'm really impressed with his inventions.

MY estimation, seems to be the consesus opinion. Payne wrote a simpsons episode, and then put fantastic 4 elements into it.

 

[Bishop2]

MY estimation, seems to be the consesus opinion.

You might wanna check the poll in the "Rate and Review" thread before assuming that.

Or read over the reviews from our users. The majority of the opinions here are quite positive.

 

[Eros]

You might wanna check the poll in the "Rate and Review" thread before assuming that.

Or read over the reviews from our users. The majority of the opinions here are quite positive.

I never said the movie was bad, just that it was an average script and a average movie in turn. Compared to most critics and fans, Im being very kind.

 

[Bishop2]

I never said the movie was bad, just that it was an average script and a average movie in turn. Compared to most critics and fans, Im being very kind.

Compared to most critics, sure, I agree... but fans?

At least here, we're seeing something else.

Total number of people who voted the movie "Excellent" or "Above Average" - 269.
Total who voted it "Average" - 94.
Total who voted it "Below Average" or "Poor" - 59.

 

[MattC]

Ok, here is the second (and final) part of the interview:

Did you translate any of the Storm family history from the comics in order to be able to decide where their father is, for example?
Johnny and Sue referred to their mother in the first film and their father here. In the movie universe, both of their parents are dead. I know their family backstory in the comics is a little different, with their mother being killed in a car crash and their father going to jail. But I think it's nice to see that these two characters had to grow up through tragedy depending on one another. They're very close, despite their squabbling. And I think the scenes between them are some of the best emotional scenes in the movie.

Whose decision was it to include Frankie Raye?
Mine. Tim wanted Gen. Hager to have an Aide who Johnny could have a little romantic story with. I thought it would be great if she was Frankie Raye, especially with the character's link to Galactus in the comics.

Did you write the character with the intention of her becoming Nova later on down the line?
I never wrote her with the intention of her becoming Nova down the line. But the door is open now, I guess!

Was there a moratorium on bringing in other characters from the comics?
None that I ever heard of. There are just restrictions on characters whose film rights are controlled by other companies -- like Sub-mariner. It would be great if we could use him, since he's such a big part of the FF mythology. But he's off-limits.

It’s funny – everyone talks about Frankie Raye being in the movie, but I haven’t heard anyone mentioning Roberta, the FF’s receptionist. (Although she went from being a robot in the comics to a hologram in the movie, I think it’s still a nice little nod to the fans.)

You're involved in the film and television industry. Did your interaction influence your writing of the Fantastic Four as celebrities, or did that evolve from who they were in the first film?
It really didn’t have anything to do with me being from the film and television industry. It was just a reflection of our celebrity-obsessed culture. We have a love/hate relationship with celebrities. Our obsession with them is what makes them popular, rich, and famous, but it also ruins any semblance of a normal life for them that the rest of us take for granted.

You've written a lot of comedy. Do you want to try to break out of that genre to write something else?
Yes, absolutely. That’s one of the reasons (apart from being a lifelong fan of the FF!) that I wanted to write this movie to begin with. It wasn’t a comedy – it was an action-adventure film which happened to have some comedic elements.The next project I’m working on, based on my original spec script, happens to be an action-comedy family film with supernatural elements. So I’m not doing much at the moment to keep myself from being pigeonholed. But, certainly, I intend to work on projects with very different tones.

Having seen the film, is there a particular scene or sequence that you're most proud of?
One of the sequences I’m most proud of is the Johnny/Surfer chase. Unfortunately, as that was the teaser trailer of the film, everyone had pretty much seen it by the time the movie opened. But I still love the fact that it ends with the Surfer pulling Johnny into space to snuff out his flames. That’s a big ace up your sleeve.

I also really liked some of the moments before the wedding. There’s a nice little emotional moment just between Johnny and Sue that worked well. And, I have to say, I liked the scene where Johnny asks Ben about intimate details of his love life with Alicia. That was one of the first things I had pitched to Marvel years ago – even before the Silver Surfer was going to be in the film. It was a question that I believe a lot of people might have briefly thought about in the back of their minds at some point, and it was funny that Johnny would actually ask it.

Was there anything in there that you were worried about that you were later surprised to find worked, or worked better than you hoped?
You’re always concerned with how everything is going to play. You just never know until you see it. I knew that the London Eye sequence was going to be a challenge, because the thing is just so freakin’ big! But Tim and company did an amazing job making that sequence come alive.

Were you able to objectively enjoy the film at all?
It’s always hard to step back when you’re so close to it. At first, you only see the things that are being done differently than you’d imagined when you were writing it. I’d say the best time is always the second viewing, because you can get a little distance from it. I was able to see it on opening day with my extended family, who vary in ages from 5 to 70. The theater was packed with other families, fanboys, and regular movie-goers, and the crowd loved it. It was a real thrill to see so many people of different ages enjoying it, and I knew at that point that the movie really worked. I could finally sit back and enjoy the ride. (And everyone in the theater applauded at the end!)

Why does Doom, in the movie, hide behind his armor after his skin is no longer scarred?
The armor serves a real practical purpose in the story, although this may not have been completely clear in the final film. As you may recall, Reed discovered that it was a tachyon pulse which was the link between the Surfer and his board – it was the telemetry between them which gave the Surfer his powers in a kind of symbiotic relationship. The Surfer’s entire silver coating emanated this tachyon pulse, allowing him interact with the board.

After the FF severed that link, Doom secretly constructed his own tachyon pulse emitter so that he could link with the board and tap into its power. (That’s what Doom was working on when Sue interrupted him, what he activated in the chamber containing the board, and what Johnny ultimately fried at the end of the movie.) Doom channeled the tachyon pulse from the device throughout his armor, so that he could emanate the pulse from his entire body – like the Surfer.

So that’s your answer. (Also, it’s not a bad idea to be wearing protective armor when you’re flying around the sky on a surfboard.)

Do you think Johnny was appropriately upset about Sue’s accident?
Johnny was more upset over his sister’s death – at least in the screenplay. I believe a bigger reaction moment for Johnny was actually shot. In the script, as soon as he saw that Doom had impaled Sue, Johnny went after Doom in a rage, but was swept aside. When Sue died, Johnny was deeply affected. But I believe some moments had to be sacrificed for time and pacing, and I understand that. Still, I think you can see the depth of Johnny’s loss when he discovers that Sue’s been resurrected. There’s a nice little moment between them in the film when he comes back and finds she’s alive.

Has Doom put on the mask for the final time, or will fans be enjoying Julian’s face again?
Honestly, I have no idea. I guess we’ll find out if there’s another sequel.

"Let’s all go for a spin…". Any comments?
Ha! Actually, I didn't write that particular line. It was added in post-production. It was a surprise to me as well.

That also goes for the Thing saying "My bad." And the bit where Ben burps in the bar. But, I have to say, based on the response I saw in the theater, kids really seem to love that burping bit.

How do you think the comic book genre is being handled by Hollywood?
It’s a mixed bag. For every X2, Sin City, or Rise of the Silver Surfer there’s a… well, another superhero movie that doesn’t work so well. I don’t want to get specific. People work hard on these films, and there are many reasons why the final product doesn’t always come out as great as it could be. But no one sets out to make a bad movie. I’d say the ones that work the best are the ones that are true to the spirit of the comic book source material. You don’t want to lose sight of why the property is so popular to begin with.

There are a lot of new comic book properties being worked on; do you think there is a danger that the more general audience will get tired of them, or that the quality will degrade, to the point that they the genre goes out of style?

I hope not. Honestly, I don’t think they will, because although most (but not all) comic book properties feature super-powered characters, the comic book genre actually encompasses many different genres and styles. Batman Begins, Sin City, Spider-Man, and Fantastic Four are all extremely different in tone. As long as you make the characters and their situations unique, I don’t think audiences will grow tired of the genre.

Although it's early to talk about stories for a third film, did you write elements into this story with the intention that they could lead into another sequel?
There were some things like that in the script -- and even shot -- that were cut out. I was sorry to see those go. But sometimes you have to cut stuff you like if it slows down the movie. I think some of them are still in the novelization. So go out and buy it now!

Are you able to specify any of those scenes that were cut?
In the final wedding scene, Alicia mentions wanting to introduce Ben to her stepfather, but warning him that her stepfather can be "a little difficult sometimes." So that was a wink to the fans.

What villains would you love to see in the third film?
If there is a third film and if I’m involved – and this is just me talking, as I’ve had no conversations with the studio or Marvel about any of this – I’ve always loved the Inhumans, the Skrulls, the Puppet Master, and Annihilus and the Negative Zone. Those are my favorite FF villains, so I’d love to see them on the big screen some day.

Thanks again to Don for agreeing to this, and I hope that you enjoyed reading it.

 

[Malus]

Payne wrote such a average script.

Payne wrote an excellent script.
What happened to it after it was written is another matter...

 

[Eros]

Compared to most critics, sure, I agree... but fans?

At least here, we're seeing something else.

Total number of people who voted the movie "Excellent" or "Above Average" - 269.
Total who voted it "Average" - 94.
Total who voted it "Below Average" or "Poor" - 59.

Theirs was nothing excellent about the movie, it was a foergettable summer action movie for kids, with some cool moments, thats it. If you think the movie is excellent then go ahead.

 

[Kelly]

Theirs was nothing excellent about the movie, it was a foergettable summer action movie for kids, with some cool moments, thats it. If you think the movie is excellent then go ahead.

In your opinion of course, others thought differently......its a matter of opinion....

 

[Eros]

Payne wrote an excellent script.
What happened to it after it was written is another matter...

Perhaps he did, but the final product was a very average movie.

 

[Malus]

Theirs was nothing excellent about the movie, it was a foergettable...

I'm sure your assesment of Mr. Payne's writing skills will keep him up tonight.

 

[Bishop2]

Do you think Johnny was appropriately upset about Sue’s accident?
Johnny was more upset over his sister’s death – at least in the screenplay. I believe a bigger reaction moment for Johnny was actually shot. In the script, as soon as he saw that Doom had impaled Sue, Johnny went after Doom in a rage, but was swept aside. When Sue died, Johnny was deeply affected. But I believe some moments had to be sacrificed for time and pacing, and I understand that. Still, I think you can see the depth of Johnny’s loss when he discovers that Sue’s been resurrected. There’s a nice little moment between them in the film when he comes back and finds she’s alive.

In truth, it's not really an issue in the film because Johnny never sees Sue is dead until after Doom's been beaten. I don't know if he even saw the spear in her body before it dissolved. Being Johnny, I'm sure he figured yeah, she's hurt, but she'll be fine.

 

[Bishop2]

Theirs was nothing excellent about the movie, it was a foergettable summer action movie for kids, with some cool moments, thats it. If you think the movie is excellent then go ahead.

NEWS FLASH: Your opinion is NOT unequivocally right and the opinions of others are not unquivocally wrong.

 

[Eros]

I'm sure your assesment of Mr. Payne's writing skills will keep him up tonight.

I hope it doesn't because, if he can't handle me, what about the movie critics who ripped the movie apart?

 

[Eros]

NEWS FLASH: Your opinion is NOT unequivocally right and the opinions of others are not unquivocally wrong.

NEWSFLASH: I never said it was.

 

[Kelly]

Having seen the film, is there a particular scene or sequence that you're most proud of?

One of the sequences I’m most proud of is the Johnny/Surfer chase. Unfortunately, as that was the teaser trailer of the film, everyone had pretty much seen it by the time the movie opened. But I still love the fact that it ends with the Surfer pulling Johnny into space to snuff out his flames. That’s a big ace up your sleeve.

I also really liked some of the moments before the wedding. There’s a nice little emotional moment just between Johnny and Sue that worked well. And, I have to say, I liked the scene where Johnny asks Ben about intimate details of his love life with Alicia. That was one of the first things I had pitched to Marvel years ago – even before the Silver Surfer was going to be in the film. It was a question that I believe a lot of people might have briefly thought about in the back of their minds at some point, and it was funny that Johnny would actually ask it.

I knew I liked Payne.......

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

We need to keep this guy. I :heart: him.

"Let’s all go for a spin…". Any comments?
Ha! Actually, I didn't write that particular line. It was added in post-production. It was a surprise to me as well.

That also goes for the Thing saying "My bad." And the bit where Ben burps in the bar. But, I have to say, based on the response I saw in the theater, kids really seem to love that burping bit.

Matt--hats off to you for asking such excellent questions. I was wondering where this lameness was coming from, so I'm relieved to learn it's not from him. I'm willing to bet it's from Mark Frost--that's the kind of crap that was found in the 1st film.

"Let's go for a spin" is from the Marco Polo Playbook.