Fant4stic Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - - - - - Part 27

[TheComicbookKid]

So....I don't understand what you are trying to get at. I made a post, you quoted it and made a statement that I took as you being upset by my post, I quoted that statement and made a post about it. And now you are saying something about the "bio" post I made...that had absolutely nothing to with the post of yours that I originally quoted and replied to.

Okay? I mixed up something.

Why would you think I was upset by your post? I just asked a question.

Yes I did....because I am not writing a novel or a paper for college. I gave a quick summary of some of the things they got right.

How do I say this....Steven Hawking and 3rd graders are not Victor Von Doom ruler of Latveria.....they may blog and twitter....but Doom would not do that. To me and so many others on here who have said it a million times...it is that simple....Doom does not blog.

Victor Domaschev is a blogger. Where does it say Doctor Doom blogs? The man before he becomes Doom has a blog in 2015. Nothing more. Nothing about Doctor Doom.

Clark Kent can have varying origins where Pa and Ma are dead or alive. Superman is the outcome.

 

[The Guard]

Exactly.

 

[Kelly]

They're movie guys, not comics guys.

Ooooh, well they probably loved IM3 then...

 

[Paradox1]

Wow. What a spin. .

What spin? That is how ugliness has been portrayed in countless fairy tales and stories since the beginning of time. What is wow worthy about that?

 

[TheComicbookKid]

You are just now figuring that out? lol.... That has been evident from the beginning. That is going to happen more and more, the thing is....there is a thing called respect, and when these fans who have put far more money into this franchise, far more time on here talking about these comic books, etc are show little if any respect. That's not cool....

RESPECT is given and received.

I haven't seen anyone in this production slam the Kirby/Lee stuff. Trank loves the weirdness of the early stuff. Just because he interprets it differently than others doesn't make him wrong.

That's what we do with literature. Just because he didn't buy the first issue when it was 10 cents doesn't make his feelings towards it invalid.

As for myself, I honestly have no problems with some of the changes. I don't necessarily like change simply to change something...but changing things like Sue not being a damsel in distress type of character, I have absolutely no problem with that....but I respect those that want a more Kirby/Lee movie, and I can understand why they are not happy with what they are seeing. It is and has always been a matter of taste, some like 616, and some like UFF....but the vitriol between some in these groups....well I just don't understand it.

It's all a matter of personal taste. I like and dislike 616 and I like/dislike Ultimate U.

My problem is that we keep getting caught re-adapting the same stories the same way and never moving forward.

We've spent 5 movies in the Spidey franchise to get a Gwen Stacy death scene but we're probably about to reboot this thing again just to see her swinging off that web again to appease some fans. Meanwhile we have Miles and Gwen moving the Spiderman franchise beyond that image. Why can't we?

 

[moviedoors]

Maybe let's not be forced to censor ourselves because of a few X-Men fans with a sudden mysterious interest in the Fantastic Four.

What does that mean?

 

[moviedoors]

They're movie guys, not comics guys.

And there's not a damn thing wrong with that.

 

[The Guard]

I don't understand why no other superhero franchise has fans demanding that it be largely drawn from a particular era, and can combine eras and influences and angle a bit toward realism VS a certain design quality, but FANTASTIC FOUR is getting condemned so much for not being "Lee/Kirby" esque. And yes, I know their work, and I love it and recognize its influence, but its not the end-all be all of the Four's mythology.

 

[Kelly]

RESPECT is given and received.

I haven't seen anyone in this production slam the Kirby/Lee stuff. Trank loves the weirdness of the early stuff. Just because he interprets it differently than others doesn't make him wrong.

That's what we do with literature. Just because he didn't buy the first issue when it was 10 cents doesn't make his feelings towards it invalid.



It's all a matter of personal taste. I like and dislike 616 and I like/dislike Ultimate U.

My problem is that we keep getting caught re-adapting the same stories the same way and never moving forward.

We've spent 5 movies in the Spidey franchise to get a Gwen Stacy death scene but we're probably about to reboot this thing again just to see her swinging off that web again to appease some fans. Meanwhile we have Miles and Gwen moving the Spiderman franchise beyond that image. Why can't we?

Well, I could care less about the Spidey franchise...but what I do know is that the look of the first film for the 4, was fine, Doom should have been written as DOOM, not a corporate guy, they should have taken the majority of the story from the France script, threw Frost out, not tried to make money off of more showings per day and did a full 2 hour movie, cgi'd Thing for the most part and brought in a director that knew how to direct huge action scenes, not the guy that directed the action from Taxi...

Had those things happened we would probably be looking at a 3rd movie, not another reboot...

As far as Spidey, I have no clue why they keep rebooting it...don't really care.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I don't understand why no other superhero franchise has fans demanding that it be largely drawn from a particular era, and can combine eras and influences and angle a bit toward realism VS a certain design quality, but FANTASTIC FOUR is getting condemned so much for not being "Lee/Kirby" esque. And yes, I know their work, and I love it and recognize its influence, but its not the end-all be all of the Four's mythology.

Visually wise, Kirby set the standard for Marvel's cosmic realm. Not just the FF.

 

[Docker2.0]

Well, I could care less about the Spidey franchise...but what I do know is that the look of the first film for the 4, was fine, Doom should have been written as DOOM, not a corporate guy, they should have taken the majority of the story from the France script, threw Frost out, not tried to make money off of more showings per day and did a full 2 hour movie, cgi'd Thing for the most part and brought in a director that knew how to direct huge action scenes, not the guy that directed the action from Taxi...

Had those things happened we would probably be looking at a 3rd movie, not another reboot...

As far as Spidey, I have no clue why they keep rebooting it...don't really care.

Aunt May: Spy. Need I say more!

 

[The Infernal]

Aunt May: Spy. Need I say more!

It gets better. Iron May.

Spoiler

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I don't understand why no other superhero franchise has fans demanding that it be largely drawn from a particular era, and can combine eras and influences and angle a bit toward realism VS a certain design quality, but FANTASTIC FOUR is getting condemned so much for not being "Lee/Kirby" esque. And yes, I know their work, and I love it and recognize its influence, but its not the end-all be all of the Four's mythology.

Exactly, Marvel are allowed to take from a characters entire history, including the Ultimates in many cases, but as soon as a non MCU movie makes changes its a big problem. I am personally glad they are taking a different route with this, it at least looks different to usual CBMS fare and I am glad of that. Plus, Fox have gotten the X-Men movies spot on for the last few years and this looks more in line with them.

 

[The Infernal]

Spot on would be the last thing I'd call the X-men movies. They've been good overall, but pretty far off from the source material when it comes down to it.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Spot on would be the last thing I'd call the X-men movies. They've been good overall, but pretty far off from the source material when it comes down to it.

Well yeah that's what I meant, not faithful, but great movies that keep the spirit of the characters intact.

 

[Docker2.0]

I don't know man. I think Xmen have been good due to Bryan Singer being able to relate to Mutant-phobia as he grew up with homophobia. When Singer left the Xmen you saw how it went. I think he really gets them more so than Fox. It will be interesting how they are handled once he leaves.

 

[wobbly]

Victor Domaschev is a blogger. Where does it say Doctor Doom blogs? The man before he becomes Doom has a blog in 2015. Nothing more. Nothing about Doctor Doom.

Clark Kent can have varying origins where Pa and Ma are dead or alive. Superman is the outcome.

Clark Kent can be the same Superman whether his adopted parents are alive or not. The main thing he gets from them as a result of them raising him is his morality and humanity. His Clark Kent & Superman persona is a result of years of good nurturing as much as his Kryptonian physiology granting him great power.

I would add though that Jonathan Kent being alive does take away that lesson in humility: For all his power Clark simply couldn't save the man closest to him (something Snyder messed up imo by having Clark let Jonathan die when he could have saved him).

Doom is a different beast though. He wasn't raised to be 'normal' at all, nor is he just some unlikeable clever geek who gets zapped by something and then becomes Doctor Doom. Everything that makes Victor = Doctor Doom is already there in him at a younger age in spades. Genius, ego, aloofness and arrogance.

That aloofness is what makes the idea of him 'blogging' just jarring to me (I do hope they don't mention it much tbh). Doom, even at a college age and pre armor etc, would (imo) sneer big time at something he would see as utterly common and no more than pathetic needy pandering. Like Twitter or Facebook, he would not be interested one bit, because he doesn't give a flying f##k what anyone else thinks.

 

[RAE072]

Clark Kent can be the same Superman whether his adopted parents are alive or not. The main thing he gets from them as a result of them raising him is his morality and humanity. His Clark Kent & Superman persona is a result of years of good nurturing as much as his Kryptonian physiology granting him great power.

I would add though that Jonathan Kent being alive does take away that lesson in humility: For all his power Clark simply couldn't save the man closest to him (something Snyder messed up imo by having Clark let Jonathan die when he could have saved him).

Doom is a different beast though. He wasn't raised to be 'normal' at all, nor is he just some unlikeable clever geek who gets zapped by something and then becomes Doctor Doom. Everything that makes Victor = Doctor Doom is already there in him at a younger age in spades. Genius, ego, aloofness and arrogance.

That aloofness is what makes the idea of him 'blogging' just jarring to me (I do hope they don't mention it much tbh). Doom, even at a college age and pre armor etc, would (imo) sneer big time at something he would see as utterly common and no more than pathetic needy pandering. Like Twitter or Facebook, he would not be interested one bit, because he doesn't give a flying f##k what anyone else thinks.

Boom. Exactly.

I don't know man. I think Xmen have been good due to Bryan Singer being able to relate to Mutant-phobia as he grew up with homophobia. When Singer left the Xmen you saw how it went. I think he really gets them more so than Fox. It will be interesting how they are handled once he leaves.

Yep. If it weren't for Singer they'd probably still be floundering and pumping out mediocre to bad X-Films.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Doom is a different beast though. He wasn't raised to be 'normal' at all, nor is he just some unlikeable clever geek who gets zapped by something and then becomes Doctor Doom. Everything that makes Victor = Doctor Doom is already there in him at a younger age in spades. Genius, ego, aloofness and arrogance.

Absolutely.

That attitude is clear in the panels Kirby drew of him in college with Reed, and even UFF gives a sense of that attitude.

It's not subtle and it's not vague. He considers people so beneath him that it's obvious from the moment you see him. And he certainly wouldn't share his thoughts with the plebeians online who don't deserve them.

I'm going to try to withhold judgment until we've seen some more, but I'm very concerned, based on the brief glimpses in the trailer, that this portrayal isn't even going to be close.

 

[DigificWriter]

I would argue that instant online communication fits the kind of arrogant, aloof genius you guys are describing Doom as to a T, especially in an age and an era where practically every person in the world engages in some kind of online digital communication.

Someone with the kind of personality you guys are describing would absolutely use the Internet to broadcast his contempt for everyone else.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Clark Kent can be the same Superman whether his adopted parents are alive or not. The main thing he gets from them as a result of them raising him is his morality and humanity. His Clark Kent & Superman persona is a result of years of good nurturing as much as his Kryptonian physiology granting him great power.

I would add though that Jonathan Kent being alive does take away that lesson in humility: For all his power Clark simply couldn't save the man closest to him (something Snyder messed up imo by having Clark let Jonathan die when he could have saved him).

eh. It goes both ways. It's not like Johnathan dying after he became Superman in AS-Superman meant nothing. (I actually thought it was the best. At the height of his power he still will fail sometimes).

We've just gotten so used to the Donner version.

Agree about Snyder's misunderstanding.

Doom is a different beast though. He wasn't raised to be 'normal' at all, nor is he just some unlikeable clever geek who gets zapped by something and then becomes Doctor Doom. Everything that makes Victor = Doctor Doom is already there in him at a younger age in spades. Genius, ego, aloofness and arrogance.

That aloofness is what makes the idea of him 'blogging' just jarring to me (I do hope they don't mention it much tbh). Doom, even at a college age and pre armor etc, would (imo) sneer big time at something he would see as utterly common and no more than pathetic needy pandering. Like Twitter or Facebook, he would not be interested one bit, because he doesn't give a flying f##k what anyone else thinks.

I can only guess obviously. Kebbel described Victor as anti-social so I doubt he is blogging to his 10,000 Facebook friends.

I assumed it was to allow Victor to bloviate his opinions and attack others.

Look at Sherlock. They integrate him into 2015 with text but use it to enhance his abrasive attitude. He still hates people and think he's the smartest guy in the room.

The Doom handle is still stupid.

 

[RAE072]

I would argue that instant online communication fits the kind of arrogant, aloof genius you guys are describing Doom as to a T, especially in an age and an era where practically every person in the world engages in some kind of online digital communication.

Someone with the kind of personality you guys are describing would absolutely use the Internet to broadcast his contempt for everyone else.

So basically "I hate all of you and I'm going to tell you exactly why on my BLOG!"

Yeah. Victor Von Doom wouldn't do that.

Victor Domashev probably would.

 

[DigificWriter]

In a world where terrorists are using the Internet to propagandise and spread their messages of contempt and hatred, somebody with the kind of personality you're describing Doom as having very much WOULD use the Internet to aggrandize their feelings of superiority.

 

[nogolf33]

Digific - are you saying Doom is craving an audience? I don't really think so. He doesn't care what people think. He would e-mail and text associates, not try to entertain strangers.

On the other hand, he did always want to have powers over all others and demand worship from them. Having readers on a message board would not give him the power he wants though. Young Doom is arrogant and aloof. He associates with Reed to benefit from Reed's inventive genius.

 

[DigificWriter]

I'm looking at the character and personality traits of Doom as they're being described by other people and seeing immediate parallels between those kinds of traits and the kinds of traits that drive terrorists and other types of extremists to propagate and spread their viewpoints.

For somebody with the kind of personality that people are attributing to 'classic' Doom, an Internet blog is exactly the kind of platform I'd expect him to use to 'lord' his superiority over people. It's not about 'sharing' his viewpoints with the world; it's about exposing the world to the fact that he sees himself as superior to everyone else in the universe and reveling in that superiority on a grand scale.