Fant4stic Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 31

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what the hell is crush soda?

Edit: looked it up, looks like the generic stuff i see in a walmart soda aisle... very fitting for this film
 
So, he asked me "why I'm here" when I've said multiple times that this movie has done a lot of what I think a reboot should approach yet you're getting on me for asking the same?

Why would he not be here?

Cause they're are forty other forums of discussion about all kinds of comics.

He could start a thread discussion about the comics he's a fan of for 40 plus years and post images and have positive discussion about the stuff he likes and the history of the characters for newer fans like me.

After a year, of not being impressed by what he's seen or gotten, the thought of some one magical image to turn things around seems fool-hearty to me.

But, it is not wrong for him to be here. And you never know what will change some people's minds. I mean, there was a decent influx of positivity after the last trailer. So, there is nothing wrong with anyone retaining some hope that they may get something that would make them happy.
 
fool-hearty

"hardy"

Sometimes you have to be the person who stands up and says, “I’ll be the one to shoulder all this deliciousness. I’ll sell the Cherry Crush versus the vastly more popular Orange flavored version.” I put that responsibility on myself. People are always going to see things in terms of soda flavor, but maybe in the future we won’t talk about it as much. Maybe, if I set an example, Hollywood will start considering more varieties of fruit flavored carbonated beverages, and maybe we can reach the people who are stuck in the mindset that “it has to be Orange.” Or maybe we have to reach past them.

:D
 
I think you are the one twisting yourself in a pretzel. Willie and I are longtime FF fans. It is my second favorite book next to Iron Man/Avengers, for Willie it's his first love.

How? All I said was i'm interested by what I've seen. Where's the twist?




I love the FF, but none of what I've seen the FF promotions has interested me one bit. Not one bit. It sounds like Willy is the same.

Forget what company made what, and explain to me why a franchise that I would be more than willing to go see opening day (and I saw both terrible versions of the FF on opening day), that I have no interest in seeing at all?

Add insult to injury there's a guy directing this film, calling me a racist fanboy on twitter, and I'm even less inclined to go.

Did he call you(understood) a racist fanboy?

Or did he call out racist fanboys?

Like women calling out catcallers as sexual harassers didn't mean every man who talks to them on the street. If you aren't a catcaller, they weren't talking to you.


What do you think is more controversial, blogger Doom or Jared Leto's joker that was getting blasted when the twitter pictures released? Well now people see what they're doing with Joker and people are liking what they see. Again it may turn out horrible, but hiding stuff from people never helps.

Yeah, and showing people everything in six trailers like AmSpidey 2 didn't help either. It is what it is. A good movie will be a good movie. A bad one, a bad one. People didn't like Power Ranger GG in Raimi but still went with it.
 
Why are you here?

You lost me on the first part of your post, so I'll answer the main question.

I'm here because when I was around 5 years old around 1970, I started reading Fantastatic Four comic books and they enriched my life.

They transported me to other worlds and gave me fun stories of adventure. Every Tuesday I would go straight to the newsstand after school and see if there were any new FF's or Marvel Two-In-One or anything else that featured FF that I hadn't read yet.

In the mid seventies, when they were making TV shows of Spider-Man, Hulk, Dr. Strange etc. somebody wrote a letter to Stan's Soapbox and asked him if they would be making an FF TV show. He replied (paraphrasing) 'No, but we are looking into doing a big-budget FF theatrical release.'

From that day, the thought of seeing the FF in 'real life' on the big screen became something I hoped beyond hope to see.

But then things went stagnant.

By the early 90's, the fantasy film magazines of the time started reporting about a Roger Corman FF film. I was hoping for something bigger budget, but at least I would get something, and I thought it would be at least better than the Marvel TV shows.

So I bought every issue of Comics-2-Film and everything else I could find to get more details. Eventually photos started being released and for the first time, I saw 'The Thing' as something 'real'. Not the best, but it was something. In 1993, Roger Corman released a film called 'Carnosaur' and that film featured a trailer for the FF film, so I bought the VHS just for that trailer. Again, I wasn't thrilled with the quality, but I was still looking forward to finally seeing the FF on the big screen.

But then it never came.

I waited and waited but the film never showed up in theaters. Eventually I learned that the rights were being transferred and the film wouldn't be released. I was eventually able to buy a poor quality version on VHS, and while it wasn't a great film, it was the FF for the first time 'in the flesh', so I watched it several times.

Nearly 10 years later rumors started heating up about a new, big-budget FF film. By then, the internet was actually a thing, so I bookmarked sites and followed everything I could find. I created an account on Superhero Hype and began discussing the upcoming film with other people who were looking forward to it.

When we got our first glimpse of the Thing, I was disappointed. It didn't really look like the Thing, but other elements looked promising and I hoped he would look better on film. When we got the first trailer, I was over the top excited. It looked like the FF in a serious big-budget film. From there I anxiously counted the days until release.

When I actually saw it, I was a little disappointed, but it was still a decent film - and by far the best FF film I had ever seen, so I started hoping they would fix the problems in the sequel.

I again followed the sequel every step of the way and was pleased to see they had improved the look of the Thing. It looked like it might be a lot better, but when I showed up on opening day I was, again, disappointed - to the point that when Reed was dancing I felt almost physically ill and came very close to walking out.

And then, once again, things went dormant until Disney bought Marvel and the next day Fox announced a reboot.

SHH reopened the FF section and I rejoined with old friends to discuss our excitement over the new film. When Josh Trank was named as director, I was pleased. I had hoped they would have invested in a more experienced director, but for a young director, he seemed to have promise. There were also scripts reportedly being drafted by talented writers.

But things didn't go smoothly from there. We heard of script re-write after script re-write and eventually Jeremy Slater was named as the writer "Jeremy Slater? Who the hell is Jeremy Slater?" Around that time also rumors started heating up that it would be based on UFF, which was a big disappointment to me, but UFF still shared some elements with 616 so as long as they made the right choices it could still be made into a decent film that had the key elements I was looking for.

But when the cast was announced, that was a big disappointment - particularly Miles Teller. One of my biggest problems with the first film was that Reed was portrayed as an insecure geek instead of the strong, confident leader that Reed had always been.

More bad news followed leading up to the first trailer, but I was still very optimistic going in to that first trailer. We hadn't seen anything prior to that and if the production design was done right, we could still be getting a very good UFF/616 film.

But the first trailer was a huge disappointment to me. There was nothing even close to the FF in that first trailer and I began to lose hope.

But I tried to keep an open mind until the second trailer. And while the second trailer still didn't fix a lot of the problems I had, it at least showed characters interacting in a way that could be the FF.

So that trailer prevented me from losing all hope, but I have read a lot of things and heard a lot of rumors that have made me very pessimistic about the 99.5% of this film that we haven't yet seen. But since we haven't seen 99.5% of this film, there's no way I can be sure it's as bad as it looks so far and where there's uncertainty, there's hope.

So as long as there's that hope, I want to see more. I want to see some photos or hear some comments from those involved that convince me this film could have some of the elements I've been hoping to see for the past 45 years.

So I come in here every day - maybe every hour - to see if there's anything new and anything encouraging.

But instead of seeing anything new and anything encouraging, I see "X-Men, X-Men, X-Men" with a little bit of "Race, Race, Race" and some "Trank, Trank, Trank"

So I may be an idiot, but until I see enough to absolutely convince me that this film will not feature what I want to see, I will continue to check in and hope that I will see something that will give me hope.
 
But, it is not wrong for him to be here. And you never know what will change some people's minds. I mean, there was a decent influx of positivity after the last trailer. So, there is nothing wrong with anyone retaining some hope that they may get something that would make them happy.

I never told him to get out or question why he was here, until he questioned why I was here, since I'm not raging for more action pics and non-standing photos.

I told him I'm content with what I've gotten so far.

WL is wondering why we can't stop bringing up X-men in every post then be the change he wants. Don't reply to the snarky post and engage me with discussions about what he has like.

If you want the forum to be positive then start making it positive. Start a FF comic discussion for the long-time fans. Be positive.
 
Did he call you(understood) a racist fanboy?

Or did he call out racist fanboys?

Like women calling out catcallers as sexual harassers didn't mean every man who talks to them on the street. If you aren't a catcaller, they weren't talking to you.




Yeah, and showing people everything in six trailers like AmSpidey 2 didn't help either. It is what it is. A good movie will be a good movie. A bad one, a bad one. People didn't like Power Ranger GG in Raimi but still went with it.

ok here's the issue... there's actually NOT many racist fanboys on this subject... the overwhelming majority just don't like to see a major character's race to be changed no matter their race or orientation... people like to lump that mind-set as "racist" and are just as quick to judge as the people they think they're commenting on (which is equally wrong) I think most of us would take such comments as a generalization saying anyone who doesn't agree with the race change "is racist" and that's not simply true, especially because there's really a tiny tiny amount of actual "racist fanboys" on this subject from what i've seen... so tiny, it's really not worth commenting on.. so to go out of your way and comment on it... means you're likely making a generalization and blanket statement.
 
So as long as there's that hope, I want to see more. I want to see some photos or hear some comments from those involved that convince me this film could have some of the elements I've been hoping to see for the past 45 years.

So I come in here every day - maybe every hour - to see if there's anything new and anything encouraging.

That is a beautiful post. Hope doesn't just materialize, you have to create it, too.

You want a discussion, then engage in one that isn't just with the guys who agree with you. From the MBJ thread, I started a discussion that only lasted 10 post and when you chimed in...you went for

If you want to talk, then talk to us.


This is a good illustration of why I like the wilder flame effects on this version. It looks like he's on fire vs. made of fire.

13zmty9.gif

2ivxvts.gif

If that is the case....shouldn't it cover his head too?

Oh c'mon... it's movie science, it doesn't have to make sense.
:loco:

Yeah, that's been my concern with the 'grounded' approach all along. The more they try to explain the more those explanations will raise questions.

Better to just leave it at 'unstable molecules' and move on.

If you've seen stuff you like then talk to us. We'd love to discuss it and not racism or stuff.
 
ok here's the issue... there's actually NOT many racist fanboys on this subject... the overwhelming majority just don't like to see a major character's race to be changed no matter their race or orientation... people like to lump that mind-set as "racist" and are just as quick to judge as the people they think they're commenting on (which is equally wrong) I think most of us would take such comments as a generalization saying anyone who doesn't agree with the race change "is racist" and that's not simply true, especially because there's really a tiny tiny amount of actual "racist fanboys" on this subject from what i've seen... so tiny, it's really not worth commenting on.. so to go out of your way and comment on it... means you're likely making a generalization and blanket statement.

I don't want to get into a race discussion deeply. I agree, I think the large majority like like CLee and WL. They want their comic movie like their comics.

But there's something to be said for how you express yourself to how you're understood.

"I don't like the President's policies(ok), it's hurting America (ok), That's why I called him a monkey and secret Muslim(walks away).

Saying stuff like you don't understand how they could be brother and sister or that it's not the same simply cause he race is different is where I walked away. I have a niece(bl/wh) and she has a half brother now (wh) and I dare anyone to tell them they aren't equal to full-blood brother and sister cause of their parentage is where the comic fans gave the false impression of more racist fanboys than their actual were.

I want comics movie like the comics (cool)
Their relationship is wrong and different( ignorance)
 
I never told him to get out or question why he was here, until he questioned why I was here, since I'm not raging for more action pics and non-standing photos.

I told him I'm content with what I've gotten so far.


WL is wondering why we can't stop bringing up X-men in every post then be the change he wants. Don't reply to the snarky post and engage me with discussions about what he has like.

If you want the forum to be positive then start making it positive. Start a FF comic discussion for the long-time fans. Be positive.

The thing is, that is what this place is all about. The excitement, HYPE if you will comes from those things.

During the first 2 movies, that was what was so much fun. Everyone was trying to outscoop everyone else, it was hysterical to watch. We had TONS of negative people on here back then, from possible plants from other websites, to people that were so rude it would make your head spin. And yet those of us who were positive about it, we made our own way. We simply continued to post what we found and loved about the movie, even though we knew that they were probably not going to be what all of the CB fans wanted...that didn't matter, we had an enormous amount of information, pics, videos, interviews from the actors, etc...that kept us going, and we have NONE of that this go around.

THAT is what this forum is supposed to be about. People giving their opinions on what is found about this movie, the characters, etc.

But, what you have to understand is those that started the character threads back during the first 2 movies still had a glimpse, that slight idea, that this was going to be at its core a 616 F4 movie. What we have here is nothing like that in tone, visually, origin, etc...nothing. But they still want to see what else can be brought in since we have seen SO LITTLE. Maybe a pic of Doom as Doom, maybe something from Latveria, maybe a TV spot that shows the compassion of Ben behind the rock exterior. Something....they hang on for that.

Because at this point, that is all there is.

You are here because you see this as possibly being a good movie, so you want to talk about it being a good movie.

The CB fans would love to talk about it being a good F4 movie, which is what this site is all about. They wish they could talk about that, they wish they had SOMETHING to talk about rather than X-men, etc.

You can't FORCE people to be positive. When the comics were brought up during the first 2 movies, it was because the images at least that we were seeing were similar, my questions about each of the characters were probably silly questions, but they knew I at least wanted to know more about them. They don't even have the visuals that they have dreamed about for this movie. And when they talk about 616 Doom, etc...it only reminds them of what they aren't going to see in this movie. But, they can still hope that something comes up that will give at least a small glimpse of that Doom.

When you demand that people be positive....you will usually get the opposite.
 
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I don't want to get into a race discussion deeply. I agree, I think the large majority like like CLee and WL. They want their comic movie like their comics.

But there's something to be said for how you express yourself to how you're understood.

"I don't like the President's policies(ok), it's hurting America (ok), That's why I called him a monkey and secret Muslim(walks away).

Saying stuff like you don't understand how they could be brother and sister or that it's not the same simply cause he race is different is where I walked away. I have a niece(bl/wh) and she has a half brother now (wh) and I dare anyone to tell them they aren't equal to full-blood brother and sister cause of their parentage is where the comic fans gave the false impression of more racist fanboys than their actual were.

I want comics movie like the comics (cool)
Their relationship is wrong and different( ignorance)

see but even that is a blanket statement.. yes.. the people arn't explaining themselves all that intelligently (i'll give you that) but like 98% of the convo's ive seen and had with people who wonder "how they can be siblings" tend to really be commenting on family dynamic, and worried it will be different considering Sue has different biological parents now. Yes siblings can be raised as siblings no matter the parentage, but Sue does now have a whole different dynamic that she does not share with her brother johnny.

lets also not forget Sue from what I understand is not mixed race, but adopted. There's always baggage that comes along with adoption.. be it death or abandonment issues... you can love your adopted family to death.. but more often than not you have a unique perspective and issues that your new sibling wouldn't have.

then there's the fact sue is suppose to be the "big sis who looks out for johnny" and the adoptive part makes it seem like this time it may be the other way around... with Johnny looking out for her instead.

So yeah... majority are just concerned with their dynamic being changed... I know i personally wouldn't want it bogged down with anything... and would have actually preferred both being of the same bio parents regardless of their race.

sometimes it's actually possible to add far too many layers.. and I think they've added un-needed fluff to the two.
 
what the hell is crush soda?

Edit: looked it up, looks like the generic stuff i see in a walmart soda aisle... very fitting for this film

What?

Crush Sodas are huge....

You've never heard of Orange Crush?

They are probably the most widely known, bought fruit flavored drinks out there and have been around for decades.

The stuff is HUGE in urban centers.
 
I think it's cruel to imply that adopted siblings can't be just as close a blood siblings. But that's what a lot of people on here keep doing and I'll never agree with that.
 
The thing is, that is what this place is all about. The excitement, HYPE if you will comes from those things.

During the first 2 movies, that was what was so much fun. Everyone was trying to outscoop everyone else, it was hysterical to watch. We had TONS of negative people on here back then, from possible plants from other websites, to people that were so rude it would make your head spin. And yet those of us who were positive about it, we made our own way. We simply continued to post what we found and loved about the movie, even though we knew that they were probably not going to be what all of the CB fans wanted...that didn't matter, we had an enormous amount of information, pics, videos, interviews from the actors, etc...that kept us going, and we have NONE of that this go around.

THAT is what this forum is supposed to be about. People giving their opinions on what is found about this movie, the characters, etc.

But, what you have to understand is those that started the character threads back during the first 2 movies still had a glimpse, that slight idea, that this was going to be at its core a 616 F4 movie. What we have here is nothing like that in tone, visually, origin, etc...nothing. But they still want to see what else can be brought in since we have seen SO LITTLE. Maybe a pic of Doom as Doom, maybe something from Latveria, maybe a TV spot that shows the compassion of Ben behind the rock exterior. Something....they hang on for that.

Because at this point, that is all there is.

No. You're talking about dictating what you want to see to make you happy.

Finding something interesting cause something about it's just interesting. You don't have to like the Thing not having his brow. But the way they've decided to make him mo-cap as having mass is interesting cause of it giving him visual mass.

Let's talk about that.

You are here because you see this as possibly being a good movie, so you want to talk about it being a good movie.

Wrong.

The CB fans would love to talk about it being a good F4 movie, which is what this site is all about. They wish they could talk about that, they wish they had SOMETHING to talk about rather than X-men, etc.

You can't FORCE people to be positive. When the comics were brought up during the first 2 movies, it was because the images at least that we were seeing were similar, my questions about each of the characters were probably silly questions, but they knew I at least wanted to know more about them. They don't even have the visuals that they have dreamed about for this movie. And when they talk about 616 Doom, etc...it only reminds them of what they aren't going to see in this movie. But, they can still hope that something comes up that will give at least a small glimpse of that Doom.

When you demand that people be positive....you will usually get the opposite.

That is a beautiful post. Hope doesn't just materialize, you have to create it, too.

You want a discussion, then engage in one that isn't just with the guys who agree with you. From the MBJ thread, I started a discussion that only lasted 10 post and when you chimed in...you went for

If you want to talk, then talk to us.
 
What?

Crush Sodas are huge....

You've never heard of Orange Crush?

They are probably the most widely known, bought fruit flavored drinks out there and have been around for decades.

The stuff is HUGE in urban centers.

I always found it the least of the 3 Orange Sodas. Sunkist, Fanta because it's Coke and then Crush.
 
No. You're talking about dictating what you want to see to make you happy.

Finding something interesting cause something about it's just interesting. You don't have to like the Thing not having his brow. But the way they've decided to make him mo-cap as having mass is interesting cause of it giving him visual mass.

Let's talk about that.



Wrong.

ok...
 
I think it's cruel to imply that adopted siblings can't be just as close a blood siblings. But that's what a lot of people on here keep doing and I'll never agree with that.

The dynamics can be different however. Depends on the amount of time spent together, when was Sue adopted, was she adopted as a baby, as a teenager...etc.

All of those things contribute to the dynamics of the relationship.
 
What?

Crush Sodas are huge....

You've never heard of Orange Crush?

They are probably the most widely known, bought fruit flavored drinks out there and have been around for decades.

The stuff is HUGE in urban centers.

I guess I've heard of orange crush.. but it's always looked incredibly generic to me... even more so than Fanta lol.

I guess if I only usually see a soda in 2-liter form only... and never really in soda dispensers at an eatery... i tend to think it's pretty generic. But.. i'm a bit snobby when it comes to my soda anyway. lol
 
see but even that is a blanket statement.. yes.. the people arn't explaining themselves all that intelligently (i'll give you that) but like 98% of the convo's ive seen and had with people who wonder "how they can be siblings" tend to really be commenting on family dynamic, and worried it will be different considering Sue has different biological parents now. Yes siblings can be raised as siblings no matter the parentage, but Sue does now have a whole different dynamic that she does not share with her brother johnny.

Changing Ben is something I get the outrage over. That's replacing something with something else. Until I see the movie, I can't tell if they replaced the dynamic or simply added to Sue's solo characterization with her other relationship. Then judging it accordingly.
 
What?

Crush Sodas are huge....

You've never heard of Orange Crush?

They are probably the most widely known, bought fruit flavored drinks out there and have been around for decades.

The stuff is HUGE in urban centers.

True. The soda was so well known, the military nicknamed Agent Orange after it . . . And then REM wrote a song about it. :cwink:
 
I think it's cruel to imply that adopted siblings can't be just as close a blood siblings. But that's what a lot of people on here keep doing and I'll never agree with that.

I don't see anyone saying that.. I just think, as i said before.. there's some history the 2 do not share now... and it can make them a bit different.

of course adopted siblings can be just as close as blood.. or even closer.. some blood siblings arn't even close at all..

again, people are just worried about a change in their dynamic.. and that's a valid concern imo
 
True. The soda was so well known, the military nicknamed Agent Orange after it . . . And then REM wrote a song about it. :cwink:

And the Denver Broncos adopted it.... :sly:
 
I guess I've heard of orange crush.. but it's always looked incredibly generic to me... even more so than Fanta lol.

I guess if I only usually see a soda in 2-liter form only... and never really in soda dispensers at an eatery... i tend to think it's pretty generic. But.. i'm a bit snobby when it comes to my soda anyway. lol

Fanta is gross, I loved Orange Crush as a kid. Has much of a kick to it than Fanta ever dreamed of having...
 
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