Fant4stic Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 34

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I thought this movie has taken inspiration from the Ultimates. Can someone who read the Ultimates CB confirm? Ultimates is a comic book right?



.

Ultimates is a comic book that I and most long-time FF fans didn't like.

Iron Man is a comic book but it's not a Fantastic Four comic book.

Just simply existing as a comic book doesn't automatically make it beloved by long-term fans or consistent with the elements of a property they like.
 
I thought this movie has taken inspiration from the Ultimates. Can someone who read the Ultimates CB confirm? Ultimates is a comic book right?
I read a couple of Ultimate FF issues, nothing in those issues say one of Sue or Johnny is adopted from what I remember, and Reed can fully stretch.

Wow. Those character vids really highlight the horror tone. I know that's insanely unpopular here but I really hope they embrace it since it sets the movie apart from the generic superhero formula.
I like the thought of them setting this movie apart tonally and in formula, and agree that I want to see more of it.
 
See this is the major difference... the main charaters and stories arnt "drastic changes" the nova corps are very minor tirtiary characters in the film... because of that, you can change things with less friction. Youre comparing apples to oranges... people arnt throwing a fit over mole man... they're throwing a fit over doom...

The guardians team did not have drastic changes... minor changes? Yes. Drastic? No.

The fantastic four team and doom (easily the most iconic comic villain next to joker) are drastically different .... complaints are justified

Where you are wrong is the Nova Corp aren't minor characters in comic books. It's not like they are Jimmy Olsen whose claim to fame in comics is being Superman's friend. They have powers, they are tasked with keeping peace throughout the cosmos. A more fair comparison would be if the in the new DCCU the Green Lanterns have no powers but still from Oa. That is why i say they should of just created a new planet for the movie instead of cutting off the genitilia of the Corp. It's a common theme in some of Marvel's movies where they want the name but not really the character.

Well you may well be right that I'll shut up about it, but that's likely to be because I won't go.

As 45 year fan who loves everything FF, I find the product I'm seeing so unrecognizable that, unless the final trailer shows us somthing drastically different than we've seen so far, I've lost interest.

What a difference a year makes. Last year I was anxiously awaiting Comic-Con and even though Kinberg had said FF wouldn't be the surprise, I had hoped that was just to downplay expectations and they would show something. I watched the live-streaming commentary from the Fox presentation hoping for tge tiniest tidbit.

Now, a month before release, I simply don't care. I didn't bother listening to the Trank podcast (which I would have gobbled up a year ago), and now I'm just waiting for the final trailer - which I expect to be underwhelming - so that I can make the 'go, no-go' decision that now looks like it will be 'no-go'.

A year ago, I never could have believed that possible, but I had no way to anticipate how uninteresting the film would look to me once I had seen two trailers and several TV spots.

Sorry to hear that, but I'm good with what I've seen so far. When the film was announced a year or two ago. I was hoping I would see a film that was more scifi like Prometheus. Judging from I've seen that is exactly what I'm getting. So my expectations have been met so far and the final product will speak for itself.

However like Jon Schnepp says movies are like elsewhere stories in the comics.It's suppose to be different, it's suppose to challenge what you think you know.
 
Just watched the character videos for
ff.gif
! Like them and the new shots added to the videos!
 
However like Jon Schnepp says movies are like elsewhere stories in the comics.It's suppose to be different, it's suppose to challenge what you think you know.


Going by this logic you should be happy to see the Superman film I proposed earlier, where Kal El is played by Kevin James and he wears a pink leotard. That would definitely challenge what you think you know...
 
The better analogies would probably be like the Superman Lives movie that wasn't.

With ideas like Lex Luthor being a Kryptonian, Krypton not exploding, Nicholas Cage as Superman etc.

I wouldn't be too happy about that movie .
 
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The stories absolutely have to change. There's no way around that, and I'm fine with change.

But basic, key characteristics should be maintained and, I believe, great efforts should be made to find a way to bring those characters to life but with a story that makes sense on screen and is inherently very different from the comic-book stories (since the pacing, story-telling, exposition, length of story etc. are very different in a comic book or film format).

Using a Negative Zone origin from UFF would be fine with me. It would be a mission of discovery consistent with the concept of their space origin.

But the characters should be recognizable from the established 50 year history of the FF. Reed and Ben should be older and close friends. Johnny should be the youngest and Sue should be in the middle. Ben should be a big, burly ex-football player who grew up on the streets of Brooklyn and had issues dealing with gangs. He should have a self-effacing sense of humor that is his way of dealing with some of the difficulties he's experienced throughout his life, and he should have a heart the size of the Brooklyn Bridge.

Doom, from the start, should be standoffish and arrogant. He shouldn't even present the pretense of being 'friends' with the others and he should make no secret that he sees himself as above them (and everybody else in the world). He should create his own armor that can be infinitely modified and be fitted for specific circumstances, therefore giving him infinite power. He should intentionally hide his face behind a mask. It shouldn't be some 'organic armor' that he has no control over or choice. Him hiding his face behind a mask by choice is a big part of who he is.

The characters should wear blue uniforms. They don't have to match the designs of the comic books, but if you squint, you should see a group of four all dressed in blue with one big, orange, rocky figure wearing blue shorts and say: "That's the Fantastic Four."

I could write a few more pages of basic, defining characteristics that should be adhered to, but once that basic structure was in place, the film-makers would have an infinite number of stories they could tell with those characters. They don't need to be tied down to stories or structures that we've already seen, but the basic, defining characteristics of the Fantastic Four should be in place and recognizable before they start getting creative.
 
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Everyone veers from the source material sometimes drastically and as long as it's good everyone shuts up about it. If you can't add anything new to an existing mythology you shouldn't tell it.

Exactly. The job of the producers, directors, and writers is to make a good film above anything else. The source material is second.

For example I liked Guardians of the Galaxy quite a bit but they butchered the Nova Corps. I would of rather they have made up a new group than to have used them. They and the comics they spawn from are a like almost in name only, like the planet was right. Everything else ripped away, space cops with the super powers who can fly through space without ships, they are not. Richard Rider (the most famous member) I became a huge fan of after Annihilation so that aspect of the movie was extremely disappointing
but it's a movie and I still have my Nova comics so it's all good.

Because the movie was good all is forgiven.

The notion that Marvel's movies and Fox's are comparable in how far they stray away from the source material is so intellectually dishonest, I don't know where to begin. I've seen people make this claim dozens of times here, and it only gets more ridiculous.
 
What is silly is the sentiment expressed by Kinberg, Trank and others on this board that current and former comic book readers are precious little jewels that can't handle any change from the classic source material. When in fact, we are EASY.

Throw in a couple of reminders that you've actually read and respect the classic source material - put Steve in his Commander Rogers suit, add some grey to Wolverine's temples, put some yellow in the X-Men outfits, call the armor that Hank Pym is trying to steal the "Yellow Jacket" - and we are putty in your hands.

We'll follow along with any changes you make - organic webbing, mutant Phoenix, Norse God cosmic cube - so long as the characters are recognizable and you don't get too "cute" and make changes just for the sake of change. Or express open antagonism toward those who should be your customers.

And the idea that if this movie is "good" all will be forgiven? No way. Not now. There's too much competition. Within this calendar year I can watch the Avengers and the X-Men on the big screen, AOS Secret Warriors on ABC, Legends of Tomorrow on CW along with huge cinematic superhero battles featuring Marvel and DC characters. I can tune into the Flash, Arrow, Daredevil, Supergirl, Agent Carter and Jessica Jones on TV or head out to the cinema to catch Ant Man and Deadpool. "Good" is no longer good enough.
 
What is silly is the sentiment expressed by Kinberg, Trank and others on this board that current and former comic book readers are precious little jewels that can't handle any change from the classic source material. When in fact, we are EASY.

Exactly. Fans reactions are completely predictable and fans are absolutely willing to accept the kind of changes we have seen to characters over the years.

But the concern over changes is directly proportional to the extremity of those changes and significance of the specific characteristics to defining the look, personality, motivation etc. of the character and how important that specific character is to the overall property.

This is, without question, the most drastically altered major comic-book property in recent years, so the backlash is the largest we have ever seen.

It's not a mystery. Fans aren't being (as Kinberg suggests) "unfair". Fans are being fans and reacting exactly as any rational person who understands fans, comic books and comic book movies would expect.

Fans act in predictable ways and anybody who read the script and saw the production design a year and a half ago would know this is where we would be today.

You can't put blood in the water and not expect sharks to react. And the sharks aren't being crazy or unpredictable (or "unfair" ) when they do react. If you don't want sharks to swarm, don't put blood in the water. If you don't want comic-book fans to be angry with your portrayal of their characters, maintain the most important, defining characteristics.
 
Wow. Those character vids really highlight the horror tone. I know that's insanely unpopular here but I really hope they embrace it since it sets the movie apart from the generic superhero formula.

does it? it felt alot like X-men to me... especially X1. I feel like we've seen it all before... people "cursed" with abilities
 
I thought this movie has taken inspiration from the Ultimates. Can someone who read the Ultimates CB confirm? Ultimates is a comic book right?



Kryptonite. Duh.

you mean "Ultimate Fantastic Four", "The Ultimates" are the ultimate universes version of the Avengers

this film has minor Ultimate influences... them being in High-School (though ironically the youngest of the cast is older than Alba and Evans were in the story films) and the fact they get their abilities from the "N" zone... that's about where it stops
 
What is silly is the sentiment expressed by Kinberg, Trank and others on this board that current and former comic book readers are precious little jewels that can't handle any change from the classic source material. When in fact, we are EASY.

Umm, do actually follow comics? Changes in the comics are not always accepted, and even then it takes until it is released for people to maybe accept it. Just look at all the complaints about Spider-man since One New Day. People were raging for non-Eddie Venom for a long time. The rants when major changes happens makes this forum look tame.
 
What is silly is the sentiment expressed by Kinberg, Trank and others on this board that current and former comic book readers are precious little jewels that can't handle any change from the classic source material. When in fact, we are EASY.

Throw in a couple of reminders that you've actually read and respect the classic source material - put Steve in his Commander Rogers suit, add some grey to Wolverine's temples, put some yellow in the X-Men outfits, call the armor that Hank Pym is trying to steal the "Yellow Jacket" - and we are putty in your hands.

We'll follow along with any changes you make - organic webbing, mutant Phoenix, Norse God cosmic cube - so long as the characters are recognizable and you don't get too "cute" and make changes just for the sake of change. Or express open antagonism toward those who should be your customers.

And the idea that if this movie is "good" all will be forgiven? No way. Not now. There's too much competition. Within this calendar year I can watch the Avengers and the X-Men on the big screen, AOS Secret Warriors on ABC, Legends of Tomorrow on CW along with huge cinematic superhero battles featuring Marvel and DC characters. I can tune into the Flash, Arrow, Daredevil, Supergirl, Agent Carter and Jessica Jones on TV or head out to the cinema to catch Ant Man and Deadpool. "Good" is no longer good enough.

Boom. Nail on the head.
 
Where you are wrong is the Nova Corp aren't minor characters in comic books. It's not like they are Jimmy Olsen whose claim to fame in comics is being Superman's friend. They have powers, they are tasked with keeping peace throughout the cosmos. A more fair comparison would be if the in the new DCCU the Green Lanterns have no powers but still from Oa. That is why i say they should of just created a new planet for the movie instead of cutting off the genitilia of the Corp. It's a common theme in some of Marvel's movies where they want the name but not really the character.

I'm talking about the MOVIES.. marvel clearly doesn't want to focus on Nova any time soon considering he'd be lost and way to similar to the other cosmic properties they're pushing (ms marvel, gotg, inhumans) plus... the Nova Corp is more like Green Lantern than even Ms. Marvel is... to be quite frank... Captain Marvel and her Kree soldiers are pretty identical to the Nova Corps on a superficial level.. they'd feel like the same story. So in GOTG they are tirtiary...

there wasn't a big backlash over them, not just because the film was good but because the Nova Corps are not all that important to the film.
 
What is silly is the sentiment expressed by Kinberg, Trank and others on this board that current and former comic book readers are precious little jewels that can't handle any change from the classic source material. When in fact, we are EASY.

Throw in a couple of reminders that you've actually read and respect the classic source material - put Steve in his Commander Rogers suit, add some grey to Wolverine's temples, put some yellow in the X-Men outfits, call the armor that Hank Pym is trying to steal the "Yellow Jacket" - and we are putty in your hands.

We'll follow along with any changes you make - organic webbing, mutant Phoenix, Norse God cosmic cube - so long as the characters are recognizable and you don't get too "cute" and make changes just for the sake of change. Or express open antagonism toward those who should be your customers.

And the idea that if this movie is "good" all will be forgiven? No way. Not now. There's too much competition. Within this calendar year I can watch the Avengers and the X-Men on the big screen, AOS Secret Warriors on ABC, Legends of Tomorrow on CW along with huge cinematic superhero battles featuring Marvel and DC characters. I can tune into the Flash, Arrow, Daredevil, Supergirl, Agent Carter and Jessica Jones on TV or head out to the cinema to catch Ant Man and Deadpool. "Good" is no longer good enough.

You deserve this.

slow_clap_meme_by_heroratchet-d70toro.jpg
 
Umm, do actually follow comics? Changes in the comics are not always accepted, and even then it takes until it is released for people to maybe accept it. Just look at all the complaints about Spider-man since One New Day. People were raging for non-Eddie Venom for a long time. The rants when major changes happens makes this forum look tame.

I think it's an issue of 'critical mass'. Will some fans complain about some things sometimes even very loudly? Sure.

But what you'll typically see is a few people very upset about something and the majority saying it's not a big deal.

With the first FF film, there were some people who thought Chris Evans' hair was too short and not blonde enough (which was technically true). But it was only an issue to some people and most people were fine with his hair.

In this case, there are so many things that are so wrong, we have reached critical mass and the majority of fans have given up (90% of the people who were regulars here through the first two films are so frustrated, they rarely stop by here anymore - and when they do, it's mostly just to shake their head in disgust).

You'll never satisfy everybody, but just about every other film we've seen prior to this has at least maintained the majority as advocates for what the film-makers were doing.

Ten years ago, this forum would have been crazy with anticipation for tomorrow's Comic-Con presentation. Now nobody even cares.

And that anger turned to apathy is a lot worse situation than the fiery indignation we've seen over minor elements in other films in the past.
 
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month away from release and we still don't have any promotional pics of DOOM

he must be terrible beyond belief
 
Did we see any/many pics of Doom prior to the first Story film? Cuz he was pretty bad in that as well.
 
Did we see any/many pics of Doom prior to the first Story film? Cuz he was pretty bad in that as well.

I believe so, he also had a character poster, IIRC.
 
What is silly is the sentiment expressed by Kinberg, Trank and others on this board that current and former comic book readers are precious little jewels that can't handle any change from the classic source material. When in fact, we are EASY.

Throw in a couple of reminders that you've actually read and respect the classic source material - put Steve in his Commander Rogers suit, add some grey to Wolverine's temples, put some yellow in the X-Men outfits, call the armor that Hank Pym is trying to steal the "Yellow Jacket" - and we are putty in your hands.

We'll follow along with any changes you make - organic webbing, mutant Phoenix, Norse God cosmic cube - so long as the characters are recognizable and you don't get too "cute" and make changes just for the sake of change. Or express open antagonism toward those who should be your customers.

And the idea that if this movie is "good" all will be forgiven? No way. Not now. There's too much competition. Within this calendar year I can watch the Avengers and the X-Men on the big screen, AOS Secret Warriors on ABC, Legends of Tomorrow on CW along with huge cinematic superhero battles featuring Marvel and DC characters. I can tune into the Flash, Arrow, Daredevil, Supergirl, Agent Carter and Jessica Jones on TV or head out to the cinema to catch Ant Man and Deadpool. "Good" is no longer good enough.

This might be POST OF THE WEEK!

There's a lot of conjecture and lame assumptions being used to counter peoples reluctance to support this reboot.

For example why do 4stic supporters throw Ledger's Joker at me when I had no problem with that casting in the first place...? It still doesn't change my detest for this reboot or magically absolve the apparent red flags that are present!

So statements like what Psylockulusus made yesterday about Fox hiring a cheering section are just a testament to the reality of the situation and all of us doing a great job in pointing of the flaws in this reboot. The frustration on their part is clear.

God forbid the cheers outweigh the boo's because most people actually liked what they were seeing so far but the devil is in the details and this is what many 4stic supporters and Trank himself (via pity party interviews) have come down to with the reboot.
 
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Wow. Those character vids really highlight the horror tone. I know that's insanely unpopular here but I really hope they embrace it since it sets the movie apart from the generic superhero formula.

Yeah. Because of that I am even more curious.

Ultimates is a comic book that I and most long-time FF fans didn't like.

Iron Man is a comic book but it's not a Fantastic Four comic book.

Just simply existing as a comic book doesn't automatically make it beloved by long-term fans or consistent with the elements of a property they like.

Yeah, no, I just asked if it was a comic book. It seems this movie has some inspirations from a comic book that isn't well received. My question was whether it was completely reinvented or not. I am not trying to explore what its receptions is, because I already know as people here like to repeat things.

you mean "Ultimate Fantastic Four", "The Ultimates" are the ultimate universes version of the Avengers

this film has minor Ultimate influences... them being in High-School (though ironically the youngest of the cast is older than Alba and Evans were in the story films) and the fact they get their abilities from the "N" zone... that's about where it stops

Thanks I assumed the universe of Ultimate FF is linked with Ultimate Avengers. Guess not.
 
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What is silly is the sentiment expressed by Kinberg, Trank and others on this board that current and former comic book readers are precious little jewels that can't handle any change from the classic source material. When in fact, we are EASY.

Throw in a couple of reminders that you've actually read and respect the classic source material - put Steve in his Commander Rogers suit, add some grey to Wolverine's temples, put some yellow in the X-Men outfits, call the armor that Hank Pym is trying to steal the "Yellow Jacket" - and we are putty in your hands.

We'll follow along with any changes you make - organic webbing, mutant Phoenix, Norse God cosmic cube - so long as the characters are recognizable and you don't get too "cute" and make changes just for the sake of change. Or express open antagonism toward those who should be your customers.

And the idea that if this movie is "good" all will be forgiven? No way. Not now. There's too much competition. Within this calendar year I can watch the Avengers and the X-Men on the big screen, AOS Secret Warriors on ABC, Legends of Tomorrow on CW along with huge cinematic superhero battles featuring Marvel and DC characters. I can tune into the Flash, Arrow, Daredevil, Supergirl, Agent Carter and Jessica Jones on TV or head out to the cinema to catch Ant Man and Deadpool. "Good" is no longer good enough.

Some of that is well said.

However, this idea in our fanboy culture that almost boils down to "Get the costumes, colors and hair sort of right and we'll be fine with whatever other changes are made"?

I find that a little sad. And I've seen it a lot in fanboy communities of late. They're willing to excuse all kinds of flaws if the costume/design is right off the pages of the comics or anything resembling it, but will sometimes dismiss a clever new idea or approach because a costume isn't close enough to the comics. I dunno, I just think you're limiting your experience somewhat with that attitude.

Now, I don't think that's the reason most here aren't liking what they see, just an observation.

As far as costumes go...the Fantastic Four costumes are iconic, but they're not THAT cool. They're blue jumpsuits with gloves and boots with the number "4" on them and some white trim. They're hardly what makes The Four well, The Four. They've worn various other colors and street clothes over the years, and those looks have had little impacts on the quality of the presentation of the team. I don't even think what we're seeing are supposed to be costumes. They're more along the lines of prototypes, training wheels so they can really learn to utilize their powers to their full potential.

It'll be interesting to see whether, should this movie provide more classic costumes toward the end, people suddenly embrace all these changes (except for Doom. After the previous franchise and rumors of evil blogging, they'll need to provide a good version of Doom for people to accept him in any sense).

I'm a bit intrigued by their use of Doom here. I don't think they're just hiding him in the trailers. We haven't even seen much of Victor himself, and the soundtrack listing suggests he'll be somewhat in the background. I think Doom's going to be a bit of a mystery in this film. Which is an interesting approach. This movie seems to be very much just about the Four, and sort of an origin for Doom, but very much focused on the heroes.
 
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