Favorite Solo CBM Franchise

[The Batman]

"Batman: The Movie" was the TDK of Adam West style Batman.

 

[Victarion]

"Batman: The Movie" was the TDK of Adam West style Batman.

Its more Batman Begins, I think. Hints at something great, sprawling and epic, but not quite there. Or, if you prefer, B and R is the The Dark Knight Returns of the Adam West style Batman.

 

[The Batman]

B & R is like a lame remake of a classic TV series. Its to Adam West Batman what Superman Returns was to Christopher Reeve Superman: something that tries to recapture the old magic and fails at it.

The only version of camp Batman that was a good successor to Adam West was the "Brave and The Bold" cartoon.

 

[Shinobi]

It´s not a lame remake. It´s just a remake. You can´t get lamer than Batman 1966. And if you think you can, you haven´t watched the whole show. The whole thing is 10x more ridiculous than Batman & Robin.

 

[The Batman]

No, B & R is a lame remake, and I say that as someone who watched all three seasons of that TV show, even the cheaply produced third season.

 

[batman44]

Batman followed by Superman.

 

[-Arya-]

Batman without a doubt. I even manage to have some level of enjoyment with Batman Returns, Batman Forever and B&R even if the movies themselves aren't to my liking.

Superman and Captain America would both be tied for second place, and X-Men in third.

 

[Shinobi]

No, B & R is a lame remake, and I say that as someone who watched all three seasons of that TV show, even the cheaply produced third season.

There´s absolutely nothing more ridiculous in B&R than Batman feeding noodles to the Bat computer. Let´s not even talk about the shark scene, or Batman getting a drink in a bar full of people, and then dancing. But hey, you´re free to close your eyes and believe in whatever you want. You can even say TDK is more ridiculous than the TV series. Delusion knows no rules or limits.

 

[The Joker]

No, B & R is a lame remake, and I say that as someone who watched all three seasons of that TV show, even the cheaply produced third season.

Hear hear

Batman 1966 embraced the camp, and used it to produce high quality entertainment. Batman and Robin was one big toy commercial that tried to be serious (Alfred's sickness storyline) and then ridiculously campy.

Batman '66 never wavered in it's tone, even in the very rare occasion when someone died, for example Molly falling into the atomic pile, Batman pulls out a bat shaped handkerchief and dries his eyes and says "What a way to go-go" (a play on words of the what a way to go-go disco club he met her in in the previous episode).

Batman and Robin is a poor man's attempt at the classic West camp.

 

[The Batman]

There´s absolutely nothing more ridiculous in B&R than Batman feeding noodles to the Bat computer. Let´s not even talk about the shark scene, or Batman getting a drink in a bar full of people, and then dancing. But hey, you´re free to close your eyes and believe in whatever you want. You can even say TDK is more ridiculous than the TV series. Delusion knows no rules or limits.

You're probably speaking from experience. B66 is more ridiculous than B & R (which I never disputed, BTW)....so? To imply B & R is better than B66 because it is less ridiculous is foolish and reeks of typical Batfanboy mentality. Joker sums it up perfectly:

Hear hear

Batman 1966 embraced the camp, and used it to produce high quality entertainment. Batman and Robin was one big toy commercial that tried to be serious (Alfred's sickness storyline) and then ridiculously campy.

Batman '66 never wavered in it's tone, even in the very rare occasion when someone died, for example Molly falling into the atomic pile, Batman pulls out a bat shaped handkerchief and dries his eyes and says "What a way to go-go" (a play on words of the what a way to go-go disco club he met her in in the previous episode).

Batman and Robin is a poor man's attempt at the classic West camp.

B66 is better than B & R because unlike B & R, it actually knows its a joke, is good at being a joke, and doesn't try to be something other than what it is.

But hey, you go on thinking B & R is better just because it didn't have an exploding shark. Delusion knows no rules or limits, right?

 

[Victarion]

Batman and Robin 66 is a poor attempt at camp meant to sell the Batman comics of the day, plus the little toys and lunch tins, so in a way Schumacher's movie does owe a lot to the 66 series when it comes to the marketing side of the product. Schumacher's beast revels in the absurdity of its setting and characters, giving it a level of camp West's series could only dream of. Not to say it doesn't owe the '66 series as an inspiration, it really does. At the same time, it succeeds far more than '66 when it comes to the elements of camp and absurdity. I don't care for either of these interpretations, mind you (or any of the comics, truth be told).

 

[Fallen Angel]

I loved the first two Blade movies man. They were awesome. If Blade Trinity was half as good as the previous ones it would've made it a great trilogy.

 

[The Joker]

Schumacher's beast revels in the absurdity of its setting and characters, giving it a level of camp West's series could only dream of

Name one thing in Batman and Robin that is more campy than the 60's show.

At the same time, it succeeds far more than '66 when it comes to the elements of camp and absurdity.

Explain how.

Batman 1966 is an iconic cult classic, that defined Batman for many fans (and still does today). It's had an endurance and longevity of popularity that has survived over five decades, and several dark and popular Batman movies (and two campy ones which gave campy Batman a bad name). Adam West has made a career out of that show's fame. It has been referenced and parodied in pop culture more times than you've had hot dinners. Whereas Batman and Robin is commonly known as the movie that killed the Batman franchise for years, and seen by the consensus as one of the worst comic book movies of all time.

I don't see how anyone could say Batman and Robin succeeded at anything, much less the camp and absurdity, the very thing it is most despised for.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Currently:

1) X-men
2) Cap
3) Avengers

I'm hoping Batman, Dr. Strange and Black Panther will join the ranks eventually.

 

[Victarion]

Explain how.

Cheese like the "Hockey Team from Hell," the over the top gaudiness of Gotham, "I hope Mr Bane can swim" and other Freeze lines, Doc Woodrow and his laboratory, the day-glo biker gang, Freeze's and Ivy's schemes, Freeze leading his hellish hockey hooligans in a round of that old Christmas carol, Ivy's resurrection. These, taken together, bring a level of campiness to the movie that hearkens back to the older 66 in terms of silliness, and goes beyond it in terms of absurdity with Schumacher's vision of Gotham. It has brought me more laughs and more cringes than Adam West's series.

Mind you, you'll see where I said you could also refer to B&R as the The Dark Knight Returns of the Adam West series. This is because DKR is regarded as a more gritty, dirty, and violent take on Batman, a character known for these elements. In the same way, B&R takes the idea of a campy, cheesy Batman from the Adam West series and uses a gaudy setting and over-the-top villains and side villains to create a campy epic that ramps up the camp, cheese, and cringe of the Adam West series.

To summarize: I'm no great fan of the camp and absurdity of the 66 series. B&R blows these up to epic scale.

 

[Shinobi]

You're probably speaking from experience. B66 is more ridiculous than B & R (which I never disputed, BTW)....so? To imply B & R is better than B66 because it is less ridiculous is foolish and reeks of typical Batfanboy mentality. Joker sums it up perfectly:

Not saying or implying it´s better. But it´s certainly less ridiculous.

B66 is better than B & R because unlike B & R, it actually knows its a joke

I think Joel Schumacher knew very well what he was doing right from the start. At the set, he would usually say stuff like "remember guys, it´s a comic book, don´t take it too seriously". I don´t think he had any interest in making a serious Batman movie.

And btw, how do you know B66 knows it´s a joke? Do you think the producers said "ok, guys, let´s make a comedy"? Honestly, i don´t know.

Cheese like the "Hockey Team from Hell," the over the top gaudiness of Gotham, "I hope Mr Bane can swim" and other Freeze lines, Doc Woodrow and his laboratory, the day-glo biker gang, Freeze's and Ivy's schemes, Freeze leading his hellish hockey hooligans in a round of that old Christmas carol, Ivy's resurrection. These, taken together, bring a level of campiness to the movie that hearkens back to the older 66 in terms of silliness, and goes beyond it in terms of absurdity with Schumacher's vision of Gotham. It has brought me more laughs and more cringes than Adam West's series.

Mind you, you'll see where I said you could also refer to B&R as the The Dark Knight Returns of the Adam West series. This is because DKR is regarded as a more gritty, dirty, and violent take on Batman, a character known for these elements. In the same way, B&R takes the idea of a campy, cheesy Batman from the Adam West series and uses a gaudy setting and over-the-top villains and side villains to create a campy epic that ramps up the camp, cheese, and cringe of the Adam West series.

To summarize: I'm no great fan of the camp and absurdity of the 66 series. B&R blows these up to epic scale.

Interesting way to put it. I might agree with you.

 

[The Batman]

And btw, how do you know B66 knows it´s a joke? Do you think the producers said "ok, guys, let´s make a comedy"?

That's exactly what the producer said. Bill Dozier didn't think the show would work otherwise.

 

[The Joker]

Cheese like the "Hockey Team from Hell," the over the top gaudiness of Gotham, "I hope Mr Bane can swim" and other Freeze lines, Doc Woodrow and his laboratory, the day-glo biker gang, Freeze's and Ivy's schemes, Freeze leading his hellish hockey hooligans in a round of that old Christmas carol, Ivy's resurrection. These, taken together, bring a level of campiness to the movie that hearkens back to the older 66 in terms of silliness, and goes beyond it in terms of absurdity with Schumacher's vision of Gotham.

None of this is more campy than the 1966 show. In fact there are many things in the 1966 show that are ten times more campy than this. The rubber shark on Batman's leg. Batman wearing a bright pink cowl. The infamous Batusi dance. A villain using small exploding multi colored mice to try and destroy Gotham City. Batman surfing in his bat suit wearing swimming trunks. I could go on forever.

What really works in Batman '66's favor, aside from it's consistent entertaining tone of using this as good entertainment, is that many of the episodes were based off the campy comic books back then.

It has brought me more laughs and more cringes than Adam West's series.

That's you. You're a minority. I thought you were speaking from a general perspective on which one has succeeded most in entertaining the masses.

To summarize: I'm no great fan of the camp and absurdity of the 66 series. B&R blows these up to epic scale.

It really doesn't. The 60's show out camps it easily, and better, too. That's why B'66 has endured as an iconic cult classic for decades, and B&R is seen as franchise killing POS and one of the worst CBMs ever.

 

[Shinobi]

That's exactly what the producer said. Bill Dozier didn't think the show would work otherwise.

Thanks. Didn´t know that. Then both are on the same page, since neither one wanted to be a serious and dark representation of the hero.

 

[Victarion]

None of this is more campy than the 1966 show. In fact there are many things in the 1966 show that are ten times more campy than this. The rubber shark on Batman's leg. Batman wearing a bright pink cowl. The infamous Batusi dance. A villain using small exploding multi colored mice to try and destroy Gotham City. Batman surfing in his bat suit wearing swimming trunks. I could go on forever.

What really works in Batman '66's favor, aside from it's consistent entertaining tone of using this as good entertainment, is that many of the episodes were based off the campy comic books back then.



That's you. You're a minority. I thought you were speaking from a general perspective on which one has succeeded most in entertaining the masses.



It really doesn't. The 60's show out camps it easily, and better, too. That's why B'66 has endured as an iconic cult classic for decades, and B&R is seen as franchise killing POS.

Sure, and I was being a bit too general in both posts. Each incarnation of Batman that we've been discussing are good for a bit of derisive laughter. While I think both are POS's, the campy gags are on a larger scale than a rubber shark, the corresponding repellent etc. That's not necessarily a strike against 66, considering that what I'm saying is that B&R is a grander POS.

 

[Shinobi]

That's you. You're a minority. I thought you were speaking from a general perspective on which one has succeeded most in entertaining the masses.

Do you consider yourself wrong everytime you are the minority?

And you´re comparing two very different products that existed under very different circumstances. One is a TV show from the 60´s, the other is a movie from the 90´s. Both got a lot of hate, as far as i know. B66 was more successful as a tv show than B&R as a movie, but B66 was created in a time where everything was still very new to the audiences. Curiosity and the lack of alternatives helped the series to have the success that it did, wich wasn´t actually as big as some people might think.

 

[The Joker]

Sure, and I was being a bit too general in both posts. Each incarnation of Batman that we've been discussing are good for a bit of derisive laughter. While I think both are POS's, the campy gags are on a larger scale than a rubber shark, the corresponding repellent etc.

Again the gags in B&R are not on a larger scale. You name one you think is bigger than Batman '66, and I'll name you several that match it in campy scale. They don't out camp Batman 1966 show. But they do the camp badly.

 

[The Joker]

Do you consider yourself wrong everytime you are the minority?

It depends on what I'm in the minority for. There's no subjectivity on this issue. Batman 1966 has been far more revered and successful for it's camp entertainment than Batman and Robin. By far.

And you´re comparing two very different products that existed under very different circumstances. One is a TV show from the 60´s, the other is a movie from the 90´s. Both got a lot of hate, as far as i know. B66 was more successful as a tv show than B&R as a movie, but B66 was created in a time where everything was still very new to the audiences. Curiosity and the lack of alternatives helped the series to have the success that it did, wich wasn´t actually as big as some people might think.

Batman 1966 did not get a lot of hate. It was one of the hottest most successful shows on TV back in it's day (they say the three B's of the 60's were Bond, The Beatles and Batman), and it has endured for decades as an iconic cult classic that still to this day still has a huge fan base.

You can not say the same for Batman and Robin. It's wasn't popular or successful when it was released, and it still isn't today. They wouldn't be holding any Comic Con panels dedicated especially for the blu-ray release of that movie with the stars in attendance.

 

[Victarion]

Again the gags in B&R are not on a larger scale. You name one you think is bigger than Batman '66, and I'll name you several that match it in campy scale. They don't out camp Batman 1966 show. But they do the camp badly.

It's been a good tenish years since I last saw B&R, so I would have to refer you to the bits I mentioned in an above post. Again, it's my opinion that both a pretty bad at camp, the best camp I've seen having been in the Resident Evil 4 videogame (the whole game is one big campy romp, or at least works for me as camp).

Hellboy is another solo franchise that I love. Great creature SFX and extremely likable heroes.

 

[The Batman]

They wouldn't be holding any Comic Con panels dedicated especially for the blu-ray release of that movie with the stars in attendance.

...But people only go to those B66 panels and buy those B66 DVDs because of curiosity and lack of alternatives.