Favorite Solo CBM Franchise

[Shinobi]

It depends on what I'm in the minority for. There's no subjectivity on this issue. Batman 1966 has been far more revered and successful for it's camp entertainment than Batman and Robin. By far.

Nobody is arguing that. But it´s ok to prefer B&R, right?

Batman 1966 did not get a lot of hate. It was one of the hottest most successful shows on TV back in it's day, and it has endured for decades as an iconic cult classic that still to this day still has a huge fan base.

Batman 1966 received horrible test scores from the audiences. It always had detractors during its run, particularly CB fans. By the 80´s, fanboys were nervous about the possibility of the 89 film ending up being another Adam West parody show. Today, although the show has fans, it´s still 50/50. It´s not like everybody loves it to death.

 

[Shinobi]

...But people only go to those B66 panels and buy those B66 DVDs because of curiosity and lack of alternatives.

I have the Blu-Rays. I watched the show when i was a kid. I didn´t have anything Batman-related to watch, so i tolerated the show. Once in a while i still watch an episode. Not because it is a great show, but because of nostalgia. So yeah, i watched the show because of the lack of alternatives and bought the Blu-Rays because of nostalgia. But i wouldn´t dare to call this a good show.

 

[The Joker]

...But people only go to those B66 panels and buy those B66 DVDs because of curiosity and lack of alternatives.

Of course. Silly me

Nobody is arguing that. But it´s ok to prefer B&R, right?

Well of course. They can think it's the greatest CBM of all time if they want.

Batman 1966 received horrible test scores from the audiences. It always had detractors during its run, particularly CB fans. By the 80´s, fanboys were nervous about the possibility of the 89 film ending up being another Adam West parody show. Today, although the show has fans, it´s still 50/50. It´s not like everybody loves the show.

Batman '66 only got bad test scores from a test audience of the very first episode of the show. That's it. West talks about it in his autobiography in how when they were filming the second episode, the test scores came back and it cast a pall on the set. Then it aired on national TV and the show was a monster hit.

Fans being nervous that the Batman movie might be like West's show was not an indication that they hated the show, they just wanted Batman to be done dark at as originally intended. As he had been predominantly in the comics. That has not changed. Fans still want dark Batman movies, but that doesn't mean they hate the 60's show.

I would argue that it is not 50/50. When they throw Comic Con panels just for a show that's nearly 50 years old getting a long awaited and MUCH anticipated DVD and blu-ray release, then fan base is very much a majority, not split.

 

[Keehar]

I have the Blu-Rays. I watched the show when i was a kid. I didn´t have anything Batman-related to watch, so i tolerated the show. Once in a while i still watch an episode. Not because it is a great show, but because of nostalgia. So yeah, i watched the show because of the lack of alternatives and bought the Blu-Rays because of nostalgia. But i wouldn´t dare to call this a good show.

Guess we could say that about Donner's Superman, Burton's Batman and any of the other DC nostalgia oldies that still have fans today eh. Those nostalgia goggles.

 

[Shinobi]

Of course. Silly me



Well of course. They can think it's the greatest CBM of all time if they want.



Batman '66 only got bad test scores from a test audience of the very first episode of the show. That's it. West talks about it in his autobiography in how when they were filming the second episode, the test scores came back and it cast a pall on the set. Then it aired on national TV and the show was a monster hit.

Fans being nervous that the Batman movie might be like West's show was not an indication that they hated the show, they just wanted Batman to be done dark at as originally intended. As he had been predominantly in the comics. That has not changed. Fans still want dark Batman movies, but that doesn't mean they hate the 60's show.

I would argue that it is not 50/50. When they throw Comic Con panels just for a show that's nearly 50 years old getting a long awaited and MUCH anticipated blu-ray release, then fan base is very much a majority, not split.

I wouldn´t consider Comic Con panels as being a good representation of the GA´s opinion.

Your perception of the show might be a little bit off. I remember Kevin Smith talking about how he was, as a teenager, ashamed of admitting he liked the Adam West Batman because of how bad the show´s reputation was.

The show was also canceled due to poor ratings, so i guess people weren´t really that crazy about the TV show, otherwise it could have lasted a little longer.

And again, i think it´s pointless to compare two products that were created under very different circumstances. Batman 1966 came before people knew what "Real Batman" was, and B&R came after people knew what "Real Batman" was. It´s very different to compare two things that are so vastly different.

 

[The Joker]

I wouldn´t consider Comic Con panels as being a good representation of the GA´s opinion.

I would. There has to be a big enough draw there to warrant having one, especially for something like a DVD release of a 50 year old TV show. They wouldn't waste time and money on a panel for an old show that doesn't pull in the numbers.

Your perception of the show might be a little bit off. I remember Kevin Smith talking about how he was, as a teenager, ashamed of admitting he liked the Adam West Batman because of how bad the show´s reputation was.

I don't take the hearsay word of Kevin Smith as gospel. I've yet to see proof of this bad rep the show supposedly had. There may have been a period post Batman 1989 Batmania craze where it was frowned upon to like campy Batman because dark Batman was the mega hit in thing. But even then the 60's show was big. They re-released the 1966 movie in theaters.

Several of the 60's show stars even attended the premier of the 1989 movie:

The show was also canceled due to poor ratings, so i guess people weren´t really that crazy about the TV show, otherwise it could have lasted a little longer.

The show lost ratings because Fox cut the budget and the show's number of episodes down to one a week, which in turn affected the quality of the scripts and the overall quality of the show. Even die hard fans of the show freely admit the third season was bad.

It would hardly be the first great TV show to end prematurely because of similar reasons.

And again, i think it´s pointless to compare two products that were created under very different circumstances. Batman 1966 came before people knew what "Real Batman" was, and B&R came after people knew what "Real Batman" was. It´s very different to compare two things that are so vastly different.

I would like to point out that I wasn't the one who started comparing them. I just joined in the existing discussion. I still say that even after five decades, and several mega popular dark Batman movies, the 1966 show has endured as an iconic popular classic.

It's even got a monthly spin off comic book going for the last two years.

 

[Shinobi]

Guess we could say that about Donner's Superman, Burton's Batman and any of the other DC nostalgia oldies that still have fans today eh. Those nostalgia goggles.

The difference is that Batman 89 is still an inspiration for new Batman movies. Batman 66...well, nobody wants anything to do with that.

I would. There has to be a big enough draw there to warrant having one, especially for something like a DVD release of a 50 year old TV show. They wouldn't waste time and money on a panel for an old show that doesn't pull in the numbers.



I don't take the hearsay word of Kevin Smith as gospel. I've yet to see proof of this bad rep the show supposedly had. There may have been a period post Batman 1989 Batmania craze where it was frowned upon to like campy Batman because dark Batman was the mega hit in thing. But even then the 60's show was big. They re-released the 1966 movie in theaters.

Several of the 60's show stars even attended the premier:

The show lost ratings because Fox cut the budget and the show's number of episodes down to one a week, which in turn affected the quality of the scripts and the overall quality of the show. Even die hard fans of the show freely admit the third season was bad.

It would hardly be the first great TV show to end because of similar reasons.



I would like to point out that I wasn't the one who started comparing them. I just joined in the existing discussion. I still say that even after five decades, and several mega popular dark Batman movies, the 1966 show has endured as an iconic popular classic.

It's even got a monthly spin off comic book going for the last two years.

With all due respect, i´d take Kevin Smith´s word over yours any day of the week. He does seem more knowledgable and experienced than you.

I remember reading/hearing somewhere about how B66 always had a bad rep during his run and was seen as a silly joke enjoyed mostly by kids whose options weren´t that vast. I can´t remember where, but i will search it when i have a little more time and patience.

Regarding Comic Con panels...how many people watched the show, worldwide? How many people know it exists? How many people attend Comic Con panels? I´d say those who go to Comic Conventions represent a very small minority of the amount of people who watched the series. So no, they don´t really represent the GA´s opinion of the show. BTW, i don´t know absolutely anybody who watches or likes the show, so...it´s not like we´re talking Sopranos here.

 

[Keehar]

The difference is that Batman 89 is still an inspiration for new Batman movies. Batman 66...well, nobody wants anything to do with that.

Yeah ok slick.

 

[The Joker]

With all due respect, i´d take Kevin Smith´s word over yours any day of the week. He does seem more knowledgable and experienced than you.

If this was so factual then proof would be readily and easily available. You're free to believe who ever you want. Kevin Smith thinks Batman 1989 is a bad Batman movie, and he thinks Returns is even worse.

His knowledge and experience must carry weight on that, too, by that logic.

I remember reading/hearing somewhere about how B66 always had a bad rep during his run and was seen as a silly joke enjoyed mostly by kids whose options weren´t that vast. I can´t remember where, but i will search it when i have a little more time and patience.

I look forward to seeing it, if you ever find it. No offense I won't hold my breath though.

Regarding Comic Con panels...how many people watched the show, worldwide? How many people know it exists? How many people attend Comic Con panels? I´d say those who go to Comic Conventions represent a very small minority of the amount of people who watched the series. So no, they don´t really represent the GA´s opinion of the show. BTW, i don´t know absolutely anybody who watches or likes the show, so...it´s not like we´re talking Sopranos here.

I know Comic Con panels are used to promote movies or shows with massive fan bases. Things that draw BIG numbers. Not ones that have 50/50 splits like you believe. How many people watched the show? You'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't know that show, either by having seen it or by reputation. It's that big. It's got more references in pop culture than you can shake a stick at, too.

You saying you don't know anyone who watches or likes the show doesn't mean a thing. I don't know anyone who watches or likes Dallas, or Friends but that doesn't mean they are not mega popular iconic shows.

I've seen you say you hate when people mention critical scores, well I think it's an even weaker argument tactic when someone says "I don't know anyone who likes it" as if their social circle is indicative of a general consensus.

 

[The Joker]

The difference is that Batman 89 is still an inspiration for new Batman movies. Batman 66...well, nobody wants anything to do with that.

Oh come on even you have to admit that's not true. Nolan took a couple of cues from that show. The aforementioned Catwoman costume is a big one. He also used the same type of clown mask Romero wore in his first episode for TDK's bank robbery scene:

BTAS cast Adam West as the Gray Ghost (and even modele the character after him), an actor from an old classic popular TV show where he played a masked hero. The Brave and the Bold cartoon was heavily inspired by the 60's TV show. The 60's show has it's own on going comic book title for the last couple of years.

It's just not right to say nobody wants anything to do with the show any more.

 

[The Batman]

I have the Blu-Rays. I watched the show when i was a kid. I didn´t have anything Batman-related to watch, so i tolerated the show. Once in a while i still watch an episode. Not because it is a great show, but because of nostalgia. So yeah, i watched the show because of the lack of alternatives and bought the Blu-Rays because of nostalgia. But i wouldn´t dare to call this a good show.

...So when you told the Joker that the show was only a success because of curiosity and lack of alternatives, you were actually just talking about yourself, not the millions of viewers who made the show a hit. Gotcha.

 

[Shinobi]

Yeah ok slick.

And yet, ironically, they go in exact opposite directions. One is flashy, the other is functional and discrete. One has ears, to look pretty and "meow", the other has a functional piece of equipment that happens to resemble cat ears. That right there is Nolan not adopting Batman 66´s way of doing things. Ironically, again, since in your mind it´s more like "look, look, the 66 show inspired this". And yet, they actually represent opposites.

There are definitelly a couple of references to B66 in TDK trilogy. But that doesn´t change the fact that these movies go in a total opposite direction. There´s really not much to use besides a couple of masks.

If this was so factual then proof would be readily and easily available. You're free to believe who ever you want. Kevin Smith thinks Batman 1989 is a bad Batman movie, and he thinks Returns is even worse.

His knowledge and experience must carry weight on that, too, by that logic.



I look forward to seeing it, if you ever find it. No offense I won't hold my breath though.



I know Comic Con panels are used to promote movies or shows with massive fan bases. Things that draw BIG numbers. Not ones that have 50/50 splits like you believe. How many people watched the show? You'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't know that show, either by having seen it or by reputation. It's that big. It's got more references in pop culture than you can shake a stick at, too.

You saying you don't know anyone who watches or likes the show doesn't mean a thing. I don't know anyone who watches or likes Dallas, or Friends but that doesn't mean they are not mega popular iconic shows.

I've seen you say you hate when people mention critical scores, well I think it's an even weaker argument tactic when someone says "I don't know anyone who likes it" as if their social circle is indicative of a general consensus.

Proof of what? I´m simply stating what i heard him saying. If he is lying and everybody back then thought Batman 66 was cool as *****, i don´t know. I´m simply quoting him. Why would he be lying about this? He actually likes Batman 66.

He also likes Batman 89. He thinks it has flaws, like almost everyone, but he enjoyed it. I see you´re not very well informed about him. I hope you´re better informed about B66, otherwise you might be misleading me.

I´m pretty sure i´ve seen not so successful franchises being promoted at Comic Con. It´s certainly not meant to only promote extremely popular and critically acclaimed movies and tv shows.

And i know almost everyone has seen the show. That´s why i mentioned that, despite its popularity, i don´t really know anyone who loves it. And i´m only using this as a counter-argument to you trying to use CC as some sort of definitive proof that the show is loved by everybody. I don´t think that represents real world. It might represent your world, and some people´s world, but not mine.

I know the show has a fan base. Mainly hardcore Batman fans and people who watched the show while growing up. It was the first "watchable" live-action Batman in color, so it will always be somewhat respected. That doesn´t mean that narratively it was a great show. You do know that something cheesy and poor written can still be popular, depending on the circumstances, right?

 

[Shinobi]

Oh come on even you have to admit that's not true. Nolan took a couple of cues from that show. The aforementioned Catwoman costume is a big one. He also used the same type of clown mask Romero wore in his first episode for TDK's bank robbery scene:

BTAS cast Adam West as the Gray Ghost (and even modele the character after him), an actor from an old classic popular TV show where he played a masked hero. The Brave and the Bold cartoon was heavily inspired by the 60's TV show. The 60's show has it's own on going comic book title for the last couple of years.

It's just not right to say nobody wants anything to do with the show any more.

Ok, buddy. Why aren´t they making a live action Batman where Bats fights a shark or gets himself a drink in a bar?

 

[The Joker]

Proof of what? I´m simply stating what i heard him saying. If he is lying and everybody back then thought Batman 66 was cool as *****, i don´t know. I´m simply quoting him. Why would he be lying about this? He actually likes Batman 66.

Proof that the show was at one time so hated, or unpopular, that he was afraid to say he liked it. I'm not saying he's lying. He could be exaggerating. He could be like you and think that his social circle means everyone feels the same way.

He also likes Batman 89. He thinks it has flaws, like almost everyone, but he enjoyed it. I see you´re not very well informed about him. I hope you´re better informed about B66, otherwise you might be misleading me.

I never said he disliked it. I said he thinks it's a bad Batman movie. Not a bad movie. And that he thinks Returns is even worse in that regard. Read what I'm saying and not what you think I'm saying before you call me misinformed please.

I´m pretty sure i´ve seen not so successful franchises being promoted at Comic Con. It´s certainly not meant to only promote extremely popular and critically acclaimed movies and tv shows.

Like what? And was this before or after their 'not so successful' runs?

And i know almost everyone has seen the show. That´s why i mentioned that, despite its popularity, i don´t really know anyone who loves it. And i´m only using this as a counter-argument to you trying to use CC as some sort of definitive proof that the show is loved by everybody. I don´t think that represents real world. It might represent your world, and some people´s world, but not mine.

It doesn't matter what represents your world. No offense but your world is obviously not the world the rest of us live in based on what you've been saying here. Comic Con is a valid counter argument. How many 50 year old shows (or any other old TV show) do you know of that they promoted there for something like a simple DVD release?

They did it because the show has a huge fan base, and there has been a huge demand for years for the show to get release on DVD. It was a big deal that's why they were promoting it, and bringing out the remaining living stars of the show to promote it.

I know the show has a fan base. Mainly hardcore Batman fans and people who watched the show while growing up. It was the first "watchable" live-action Batman in color, so it will always be somewhat respected. That doesn´t mean that narratively it was a great show. You do know that something cheesy and poor written can still be popular, depending on the circumstances, right?

This is you trying to speak on behalf of millions of people. I personally don't like it just because it was the first watchable Batman in color. Got nothing to do with it. So who are you to say that's why all the other millions of fans only like it for these shallow reasons you're claiming? What proof are you basing this on?

By that logic I could say people only like Batman 1989 because it was the first dark watchable Batman movie. People grew up with it. But narratively that doesn't mean it was a good movie. You do know that something poorly written can still be popular right?

See how easy it is to turn that logic on you?

Ok, buddy. Why aren´t they making a live action Batman where Bats fights a shark or gets himself a drink in a bar?

Because Batman movies aren't being made in that high level of camp style anymore. And even then the show is still influencing Batman products 50 years later. From movies, to cartoons, to comics, to video games. You trying to split hairs and diminish facts like Catwoman's costume in TDKR screams the 60's Catwoman look by going into some tirade about how one costume was functional (what was the point of the Catwoman domino mask in Rises?) and the other wasn't doesn't negate the fact that Nolan clearly and blatantly base the look off the 60's show, so much so that the costumes look practically identical.

It really refutes your claim that "nobody wants anything to do with the show any more". That and the plethora of other factual examples you've gotten. You're factually wrong about this.

Another valued aspect of the show is it helped save Batman: http://www.geekscape.net/how-the-1960s-batman-television-series-helped-save-batman

 

[Victarion]

I'm going to start prefacing my Batman posts with trigger warnings.

 

[Shinobi]

That guy fragments people´s posts in a weird way. Worst than that only if he starts quoting single words. I just can´t handle it. Not today. Maybe tomorrow. This is like discussing if the dump i took today was better than the dump i took yesterday.

Found something funny:

Robin: You mean you're gonna feed those letters to the Batcomputer?
Batman: They're made out of noodles, easy to digest.

Beautiful!!

 

[Shinobi]

Proof that the show was at one time so hated, or unpopular, that he was afraid to say he liked it. I'm not saying he's lying. He could be exaggerating. He could be like you and think that his social circle means everyone feels the same way.

People don´t generally walk around with proof of what they´re saying. They just have conversations, and i´m simply quoting what i heard him say in a conversation. And even though i don´t remember the exact sources, i´m 100% sure i´ve read and heard several times that the show always had a good number of people who saw it as something silly instead of "cool". And for what i can see, today it still has.

I´m not denying it had a fan base, and still has. But how big is that fan base? From all the people who have watched the show, the percentage who loved it is really bigger than the percentage who hated it? You know a show can be popular and still have more people hating it than loving it, right?

Like what? And was this before or after their 'not so successful' runs?

Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vegeance, for example. Ghost Rider didn´t receive any critical acclaim and didn´t make crazy money, but it still had a CC pannel. Better yet, it was received with a huge ovation. If i were to take Comic Con´s receptions as an indication of popularity and quality, i´d come to the conclusion that Ghost Rider was an amazing movie.

And this is just one example.

It doesn't matter what represents your world. No offense but your world is obviously not the world the rest of us live in based on what you've been saying here. Comic Con is a valid counter argument. How many 50 year old shows (or any other old TV show) do you know of that they promoted there for something like a simple DVD release?

They did it because the show has a huge fan base, and there has been a huge demand for years for the show to get release on DVD. It was a big deal that's why they were promoting it, and bringing out the remaining living stars of the show to promote it.

I see you like to ask for proof of what other people say, but you don´t provide any proof of anything you say. Do you have any proof that i´m wrong and the show isn´t mainly love by hardcore batfans and people who watched it growing up?

You´re right, i don´t have any proof, neither do you. I´m making assumptions based on my experience. I truly don´t know absolutely anyone who likes the show and is not A)Huge Batfan or B) Someone who watched it as a kid.

I´m not saying those are the only people who care about the show. I´m simply stating that the impression i´ve got during the years is that its fan base is made mostly of those people. Could i be wrong? Yeah, i could. But i doubt i am and honestly, i don´t care that much.

BTW: Since the show is so popular and so many people love it, how many Blur-ray units did it sell? Was it some crazy number or something? Like 500.000 units? Or was it more like 5.000 or 10.000 units? This is an honest question. I´m asking because i don´t really know.

Because Batman movies aren't being made in that high level of camp style anymore. And even then the show is still influencing Batman products 50 years later. From movies, to cartoons, to comics, to video games. You trying to split hairs and diminish facts like Catwoman's costume in TDKR screams the 60's Catwoman look by going into some tirade about how one costume was functional (what was the point of the Catwoman domino mask in Rises?) and the other wasn't doesn't negate the fact that Nolan clearly and blatantly base the look off the 60's show, so much so that the costumes look practically identical.

It really refutes your claim that "nobody wants anything to do with the show any more". That and the plethora of other factual examples you've gotten. You're factually wrong about this.

Movies aren´t being made in that high level of camp because studios, directors and writers don´t believe that´s the best way of portraying the character. It´s not what they believe people want. And it´s not what they want. Studios don´t shy away from chashing in on what brings in money and critical acclaim, so if they´re not adopting the campy way of doing things, it´s because the campy way of doing things is probably not as well received by people as you may think.

Batman 1966 was highly based on Comic Books of that time. The TV series didn´t start that tone; the Comic Books did.

Now, when you ask someone what´s their favourite Batman CB, how many of them talk about 1950´s and 1960´s comics? I can tell you that, 99% of the time, i see people talking about DKR, Year One, Hush, TLH, etc. All Comic Books that have the opposite tone of 50´s and 60´s comics. Those are the one people talk about and recommend.

Now, i´m not even saying that the show didn´t have any importance. It was, indeed, very important, and even today we can see some references in new Batman shows and movies. But the reality is that most people, audience and producers, believe the 1966 way is not the best way of portraying the characters.

 

[The Joker]

People don´t generally walk around with proof of what they´re saying. They just have conversations, and i´m simply quoting what i heard him say in a conversation. And even though i don´t remember the exact sources, i´m 100% sure i´ve read and heard several times that the show always had a good number of people who saw it as something silly instead of "cool". And for what i can see, today it still has.

Yeah there was people who saw it as silly, and there was people who hated that it made the general public think Batman was only a campy colorful character. I never denied that. But these things did not make the show hated by the masses. It's like how a lot of people complain now that Nolan's movies are having this effect to make everything dark and gritty. Director Matthew Vaughan even spoke out about that recently (I think he's talking through his ass). But this does not diminish the massive popularity of the Nolan Batman movies (for the record I am not saying the 60's show is as popular as Nolan's movies. I'm just making an analogy to how people can speak out about the image or effect of something that's very popular).

That's what I'm saying. Of course the show had some detractors. The most popular things usually do. Look at the Nolan movies, or the MU movies. If the show went through some mass hatred span, where someone like Kevin Smith felt too ashamed to say he liked the show because it was that bad, then it would be as evident as finding proof of the show's popularity.

I´m not denying it had a fan base, and still has. But how big is that fan base? From all the people who have watched the show, the percentage who loved it is really bigger than the percentage who hated it? You know a show can be popular and still have more people hating it than loving it, right?

I know the show has more fans than detractors because a show that is more hated than loved is evident by more hatred being spewed at it than positivity. This is not like the Twilight movies or Justin Bieber where they have big fan bases but the hate crowd is even bigger.

Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vegeance, for example. Ghost Rider didn´t receive any critical acclaim and didn´t make crazy money, but it still had a CC pannel. Better yet, it was received with a huge ovation. If i were to take Comic Con´s receptions as an indication of popularity and quality, i´d come to the conclusion that Ghost Rider was an amazing movie.

Ghost Rider Spirit of Vengeance was a multi million dollar brand new Marvel movie being promoted for it's up coming nationwide release in theaters. How is that the same as a 50 year old TV show getting Comic Con expose for a simple DVD release?

I see you like to ask for proof of what other people say, but you don´t provide any proof of anything you say. Do you have any proof that i´m wrong and the show isn´t mainly love by hardcore batfans and people who watched it growing up?

No I don't, because I don't box people into categories when I have no idea how they came to love something. If I was going to make an assertion about the how and why millions of people feel about something I'd have a factual basis for it.

You don't. You're simply concocting unfounded theories to try and diminish the show's popularity.

I´m not saying those are the only people who care about the show. I´m simply stating that the impression i´ve got during the years is that its fan base is made mostly of those people. Could i be wrong? Yeah, i could. But i doubt i am and honestly, i don´t care that much.

Fine that's your impression. Not a fact like you were stating earlier. At least you've admitted that now.

BTW: Since the show is so popular and so many people love it, how many Blur-ray units did it sell? Was it some crazy number or something? Like 500.000 units? Or was it more like 5.000 or 10.000 units? This is an honest question. I´m asking because i don´t really know.

I've no idea how many it's sold in total up to now, but I know in it's first week of release it sold over 30'000 units in the U.S. That's the expensive complete box set with all three seasons. That's just on blu-ray. I've no idea how much the cheaper individual seasons sold on blu-ray or DVD. Nor the complete season set on DVD.

Movies aren´t being made in that high level of camp because studios, directors and writers don´t believe that´s the best way of portraying the character. It´s not what they believe people want. And it´s not what they want. Studios don´t shy away from chashing in on what brings in money and critical acclaim, so if they´re not adopting the campy way of doing things, it´s because the campy way of doing things is probably not as well received by people as you may think.

Not believing that's the best way to portray the character any more doesn't mean that the campy way is hated or unpopular. It just means times have changed. Dark Batman is what audiences want now, and that's great, but you say it as though that means the lighter camp Batman is now disliked by most, and...what was it you said, nobody wants anything to do with any more?

That is just not true. Aside from the Nolan related examples taking elements from the 60's show, so have other movies.

Nicolas Cage based his Big Daddy performance in Kick Ass on Adam West's Batman: http://www.mtv.com/news/1635853/nicolas-cages-kick-ass-character-pays-homage-to-adam-west/

Scott Pilgrim vs the World used the 1966 show as inspiration for it's visual look: http://collider.com/scott-pilgrim-vs-the-world-interview-edgar-wright-tintin-the-worlds-end/

I can find more examples if you like. Even ones predating these.

Tim Burton was even going to have Burgess Meredith play Penguin's father, but he was too ill at the time so they gave it to Paul Reubens.

You talk like the industry has completely shunned the show because now it's all about the dark Batman. While it is all about dark Batman, the 50 year old campy Batman show is still relevant today being used as inspiration for current comic book movies, in video games, and comic books.

This is why I say again you are totally wrong about nobody wanting anything to do with the show any more.

Batman 1966 was highly based on Comic Books of that time. The TV series didn´t start that tone; the Comic Books did.

I never said otherwise.

Now, when you ask someone what´s their favourite Batman CB, how many of them talk about 1950´s and 1960´s comics? I can tell you that, 99% of the time, i see people talking about DKR, Year One, Hush, TLH, etc. All Comic Books that have the opposite tone of 50´s and 60´s comics. Those are the one people talk about and recommend.

Well of course they do, they're the bigger more influential fan favorites. The 50's comics were one of the worst periods where the main rogues gallery vanished and Batman was fighting bizarre aliens and weird creatures most of the time. By the mid 60's the Batman comics were going to be cancelled until the 1966 show saved them, and made Batman a huge popular icon.

You seem to be under some misconception that I am saying campy Batman is more popular than darker Batman. No way. Not in a million years. What I am saying is that campy Batman still a strong majority fan base. Not a 50/50 split one like you claim. That's why the show is still relevant and influential today. That's why there's whole cartoons based off it. Comic books based on it. Current CBMs taking influence from it five decades later.

It's never going to go away and stop being relevant because it's got a huge enduring fan base. I mean it says a lot when the likes of Conan O'Brien excitedly announces that the show is coming out on DVD: http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/conte...-complete-1966-batman-series-getting-released

Now, i´m not even saying that the show didn´t have any importance. It was, indeed, very important, and even today we can see some references in new Batman shows and movies. But the reality is that most people, audience and producers, believe the 1966 way is not the best way of portraying the characters.

I never argued that. I never once said campy Batman is the way most people want it done nowadays. You got your wires crossed somewhere along the way.

 

[Shinobi]

Yeah there was people who saw it as silly, and there was people who hated that it made the general public think Batman was only a campy colorful character. I never denied that. But these things did not make the show hated by the masses. It's like how a lot of people complain now that Nolan's movies are having this effect to make everything dark and gritty. Director Matthew Vaughan even spoke out about that recently (I think he's talking through his ass). But this does not diminish the massive popularity of the Nolan Batman movies (for the record I am not saying the 60's show is as popular as Nolan's movies. I'm just making an analogy to how people can speak out about the image or effect of something that's very popular).

Right. But the difference here is that i´ve got the impression that B66 has always had a good number of people who saw it as something silly and laughable(in a bad way), hence Kevin Smith saying that at some point he was kind of ashamed of telling he was an Adam West fan, because people in his social circle joked about it.

I also didn´t mean to say it was hated by the masses. But i´ve always had the impression that the show was and still is, pretty divisive because of its sillyness. You have those who love to watch it, and then you have those who think it´s just stupid, and they have point.

Too bad we´re not living in 1966, so we can´t really have a clear notion of how it was perceived by the masses.

I know the show has more fans than detractors because a show that is more hated than loved is evident by more hatred being spewed at it than positivity. This is not like the Twilight movies or Justin Bieber where they have big fan bases but the hate crowd is even bigger.

The fact that the show doesn´t invoke the same kind of hate as Justin Bieber doesn´t mean that most of those who know about it love to watch it. You might be confusing things just a little bit. Most of those who even bother to talk about the show or go to conventions because of it nowadays are obviously fans of the show. What about those who know it exists but simply don´t like it? You obviously have a different experience from mine, but in my experience, that number is actually much higher than the number of people who actually have any kind of love towards the show. It´s just my opinion and experience. I just don´t see it being that loved outside of its cult following.

I might be living in a bubble and not be aware that the rest of the world loves the show to death. It´s a possibility. I´m not saying i´m right. I´m just talking about what i know.

Ghost Rider Spirit of Vengeance was a multi million dollar brand new Marvel movie being promoted for it's up coming nationwide release in theaters. How is that the same as a 50 year old TV show getting Comic Con expose for a simple DVD release?

Well, you asked me what non-successful franchise was promoted at Comic Con, and i gave you an example.

Now, the show being promoted at Comic Con has actually a very simple explanation other than "the world loves this". It´s history. This is a comic con, people like comic stuff, and Batman is the most popular of them all. So, it´s pretty natural to see the show that made him popular to be paid homage in a comic book convention. Plus, wasn´t the DVD release a long awaited thing? I mean, the fans of the show had to wait a long time before seeing the show released on DVD, am i right?

Fine that's your impression. Not a fact like you were stating earlier. At least you've admitted that now.

I was stating it was a fact? Then i apologize. But i´ve also yet to see any factual evidence that i´m wrong.

I've no idea how many it's sold in total up to now, but I know in it's first week of release it sold over 30'000 units. That's the expensive complete box set with all three seasons. That's just on blu-ray. I've no idea how much the cheaper individual seasons sold on blu-ray or DVD. Nor the complete season set on DVD.

That´s not a bad number. But it´s also not an indication of massive popularity among the General Audiences. Considering the millions and millions of Batfans and Comic fans, and even the millions and millions of people that have seen the show over several decades, those are not crazy numbers at all.

Not believing that's the best way to portray the character any more doesn't mean that the campy way is hated or unpopular. It just means times have changed. Dark Batman is what audiences want now, and that's great, but you say it as though that means the lighter camp Batman is now disliked by most, and...what was it you said, nobody wants anything to do with any more?

That is just not true. Aside from the Nolan related examples taking elements from the 60's show, so have other movies.

Nicolas Cage based his Big Daddy performance in Kick Ass on Adam West's Batman: http://www.mtv.com/news/1635853/nico...-to-adam-west/

Scott Pilgrim vs the World used the 1966 show as inspiration for it's visual look: http://collider.com/scott-pilgrim-vs...he-worlds-end/

I can find more examples if you like. Even ones predating these.

Tim Burton was even going to have Burgess Meredith play Penguin's father, but he was too ill at the time so they gave it to Paul Reubens.

You talk like the industry has completely shunned the show because now it's all about the dark Batman. While it is all about dark Batman, the 50 year old campy Batman show is still relevant today being used as inspiration for current comic book movies, in video games, and comic books.

This is why I say again you are totally wrong about nobody caring about the show any more.

I know campy movies still exist. And i know that certain elements of the 1966 series are catchy, specially in an age of retro-love, so it doesn´t surprise me that the show still has some influence on certain films.

But i´m talking about Batman. In 1966, people had never seen serious, dark Batman on screen done right, so they had nothing to compare it to.

"Oh, this is great" - Great compared to what?

Like Kevin Smith says, they didn´t have anything else back then, so even the most corny stuff was seen as awesome.

The point is: In a time where people have seen more than just campiness, in a time where they have options, in a time they have other stuff to compare the 1966 series to, they choose to go in the completely opposite direction. So, when i say that there´s a big percentage of the GA that doesn´t see the show with great eyes, i might have a point.

If the show was really so magnificent, why don´t we see more writers and directors being in love with its approach and trying to replicate it? If the show is really such a success among the masses, wouldn´t it be wise for the studios to cash in on it? If people love camp, give them camp and make tons of money. I mean, for something that was so successful on all levels, i don´t see, producers, writers or directors too eager to reproduce it in any way.

I never argued that. I never once said campy Batman is the way most people want it done nowadays. You got your wires crossed somewhere along the way.

My perception is this:

It was popular, it was important and people pay homage to it. At the same time, it is one of the worst possible ways you can portray Batman and that´s why movies are going in a completely different direction. People, specially kids, liked it because it was something fresh and they didn´t have many alternatives. A lot of people saw it as silly and unfunny back then, and a lot of people see it as silly and unfunny right now.

Honestly, i don´t know if it´s 50/50, 60/40 or 100/10. I know that talking to people about B66 isn´t like talking to people about TDK, where 95% think it´s awesome.

I know you have a different experience, but you also don´t have any concrete data to prove you´re wrong and i´m right. Or is there any place where i can confirm that everybody loves the show, other than a comic con full of nerds that apparently also liked Ghost Rider?

 

[The Joker]

Right. But the difference here is that i´ve got the impression that B66 has always had a good number of people who saw it as something silly and laughable(in a bad way), hence Kevin Smith saying that at some point he was kind of ashamed of telling he was an Adam West fan, because people in his social circle joked about it.

Yes, and people are saying that audiences have had enough of the dark and gritty Nolan style. They don't want it any more. Even Vaughan said that. Again just to say I am not agreeing with this. I think it's BS. But it's people saying the audience have had enough and don't want such and such a style any more, like you can say audiences don't want the camp style any more.

Only in the latter case it's true, audiences don't want camp Batman movies any more, but that's not meaning that they don't like the classic campy show.

I can't speak for Smith and what ever situation he was in at the time he felt that way. I can only go by what I know, and that is I've never heard of the show being disliked so much that fans were ashamed to admit their fandom of it.

And I'm a member of this forum http://www.66batman.com/forums/index.php?sid=1b2762a17de8fef8946c0ae9bdd15df6

In all my years there surrounded by hundreds of B'66 fans from around the world I've never heard of such a time when they show was so taboo that any of them were deemed uncool or unpopular to say so.

I also didn´t mean to say it was hated by the masses. But i´ve always had the impression that the show was and still is, pretty divisive because of its sillyness. You have those who love to watch it, and then you have those who think it´s just stupid, and they have point.

Too bad we´re not living in 1966, so we can´t really have a clear notion of how it was perceived by the masses.

I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you've been reading one sided opinions, maybe you've only seen a quarter of the picture. I know the show, and campy Batman in general has detractors (many I believe are because of Schumacher's movies), but not nearly as much that their is a 50/50 split on the show.

The fact that the show doesn´t invoke the same kind of hate as Justin Bieber doesn´t mean that most of those who know about it love to watch it. You might be confusing things just a little bit. Most of those who even bother to talk about the show or go to conventions because of it nowadays are obviously fans of the show. What about those who know it exists but simply don´t like it? You obviously have a different experience from mine, but in my experience, that number is actually much higher than the number of people who actually have any kind of love towards the show. It´s just my opinion and experience. I just don´t see it being that loved outside of its cult following.

I'm just pointing out an example with Bieber. I'm not saying the detractors of it are as ferocious as the Bieber haters. I'm saying when there is that kind of divisiveness, like with him, or Twilight or anything that has a hefty fan base but an even bigger one of haters, it's impossible to miss when the hate out weighs the love.

It's like the current Amazing Spider-Man franchise. I'd say at best it's divisive and at worst most dislike it. But you can clearly see how it's divided fans. Even more so now that the possibility of going to Marvel has arisen.

You don't see that kind of divisiveness with the 60's show.

I might be living in a bubble and not be aware that the rest of the world loves the show to death. It´s a possibility. I´m not saying i´m right. I´m just talking about what i know.

I'm not saying the whole world loves the show to death. I couldn't even say that about the most popular comic book movies. I'm saying the fan base is bigger than the haters. That's why it's endured five decades, and is still fondly relevant and inspirational today in all kinds of areas from movies, to comics, to video games.

An old campy show that brings shame to half the fan base would not be treated that way.

Well, you asked me what non-successful franchise was promoted at Comic Con, and i gave you an example.

Now, the show being promoted at Comic Con has actually a very simple explanation other than "the world loves this". It´s history. This is a comic con, people like comic stuff, and Batman is the most popular of them all. So, it´s pretty natural to see the show that made him popular to be paid homage in a comic book convention. Plus, wasn´t the DVD release a long awaited thing? I mean, the fans of the show had to wait a long time before seeing the show released on DVD, am i right?

But Ghost Rider was not unsuccessful. Critically yes it was panned, but it made a profit, enough for Marvel to green light a sequel. Plus it was a brand new movie. It was a multi million dollar comic book movie due for a nationwide theater release. In comparison to a five decade old TV show getting a DVD release. It's like comparing a wedding to a first day of school.

Yes, the DVD release was highly anticipated for years. That's my point. The fans were champing for this forever. It was huge.

I was stating it was a fact? Then i apologize. But i´ve also yet to see any factual evidence that i´m wrong.

That's ok. You already have seen proof. You just either dismiss it or refuse to believe it. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it.

That´s not a bad number. But it´s also not an indication of massive popularity among the General Audiences. Considering the millions and millions of Batfans and Comic fans, and even the millions and millions of people that have seen the show over several decades, those are not crazy numbers at all.

That is one number, for one week, on one format, and for the most expensive one, too. If you can find the total tally for how many sold in total to date, blu-ray and DVD, box sets and individual seasons, then feel free to post them.

I know campy movies still exist. And i know that certain elements of the 1966 series are catchy, specially in an age of retro-love, so it doesn´t surprise me that the show still has some influence on certain films.

But i´m talking about Batman. In 1966, people had never seen serious, dark Batman on screen done right, so they had nothing to compare it to.

But they did. The Batman serials in in the 40's were not done campy. And even if people had never seen a serious take on Batman, why would that automatically make the campy version such a hit?

You keep trying to box people into categories saying they only like it because it was the first watchable Batman in color, or they only like it because they had never seen a serious Batman before etc.

Stop trying to dictate why other people like something. You can only speak for yourself. Your opinions on this are baseless.

"Oh, this is great" - Great compared to what?

Why does it have to be compared to something? When people walked out of The Godfather in 1972 they were not saying that was great compare to such and such. In my experience people love something for what it is, not compared to something else.

It's like saying they only enjoy a steak dinner because it's better compared to spam. You're the one hung up on comparisons here. It's like you keep trying to turn it into a pissing contest.

DC vs Marvel. Batman 1966 vs Batman and Robin. Camp vs serious.

Like Kevin Smith says, they didn´t have anything else back then, so even the most corny stuff was seen as awesome.

Couldn't we also say we didn't have any proper dark comic book movies back in 1989 so Burton's Batman seemed awesome then?

The point is: In a time where people have seen more than just campiness, in a time where they have options, in a time they have other stuff to compare the 1966 series to, they choose to go in the completely opposite direction. So, when i say that there´s a big percentage of the GA that doesn´t see the show with great eyes, i might have a point.

You would have a point if the show's status had diminished with time in the wake of all these new options and variations of comic book movies. But it has not. As I've said several times now the show is still popular, influential, and thriving as a much beloved classic iconic TV show.

If the show was really so magnificent, why don´t we see more writers and directors being in love with its approach and trying to replicate it? If the show is really such a success among the masses, wouldn´t it be wise for the studios to cash in on it? If people love camp, give them camp and make tons of money. I mean, for something that was so successful on all levels, i don´t see, producers, writers or directors too eager to reproduce it in any way.

How many times are you going to ask this same question? For the last time audiences don't want Batman or comic book movies done in that manner any more. But that doesn't mean they still don't love the old campy show. It's like audiences don't want black and white movies any more, but they still love the older classic ones that were done in black and white.

Just because one style is out of fashion now, doesn't mean it's not still loved. You know this. I don't why you keep asking it.

My perception is this:

It was popular, it was important and people pay homage to it. At the same time, it is one of the worst possible ways you can portray Batman and that´s why movies are going in a completely different direction. People, specially kids, liked it because it was something fresh and they didn´t have many alternatives. A lot of people saw it as silly and unfunny back then, and a lot of people see it as silly and unfunny right now.

Thanks for sharing the same perception you've said several times to me now in this post. And previous posts.

Seriously I knew this already. I feel like we're on a repeat loop now having to say the same things over and over.

Honestly, i don´t know if it´s 50/50, 60/40 or 100/10. I know that talking to people about B66 isn´t like talking to people about TDK, where 95% think it´s awesome.

No and I never claimed it was like with TDK. Those kinds of movies are easier to define because they're more of a hot topic and currently more relevant.

However it's easy to see if something is more hated than loved. And in Batman '66's case, it is clearly more liked than disliked.

I know you have a different experience, but you also don´t have any concrete data to prove you´re wrong and i´m right. Or is there any place where i can confirm that everybody loves the show, other than a comic con full of nerds that apparently also liked Ghost Rider?

You lost me when you asked for concrete proof that everyone loves the show. I never said everyone loves it. Nothing is loved by everyone. No matter how popular.

The proof of it being more liked than disliked is in the absence of being able to show any mass hatred for it. But I have provided plenty of examples to show much the show is loved, and still relevant and used as inspiration and homaged in today's movies, games, cartoons, and comic books.

Would some statistical ratings maybe help prove it to you?

It's got 7.5/10 from users on IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059968/

8.5 on TV.com: http://www.tv.com/shows/batman-adam-west/

4 and a half out of 5 star rating so far on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Complete-Television-Limited-Edition/dp/B00LT1JHLW

I don't know what else to say to you. If you have some stats that show a majority hatred or split, then go ahead and post them. I have run out of ways to try and prove this to you and this point.

 

[Shinobi]

Dude, that´s just giant.

Yes, and people are saying that audiences have had enough of the dark and gritty Nolan style. They don't want it any more. Even Vaughan said that.

Well, BvS seems to be going in the dark and gritty direction, and i see more people interested in it than complaining about it. I don´t think there´s any movement to bring back a light and colorful Batman.

I'm just pointing out an example with Bieber. I'm not saying the detractors of it are as ferocious as the Bieber haters. I'm saying when there is that kind of divisiveness, like with him, or Twilight or anything that has a hefty fan base but an even bigger one of haters, it's impossible to miss when the hate out weighs the love.

Bieber is on the spotlight, that´s why it´s impossible to miss. B66 isn´t. We´d have to live in 1966 and pay attention to what people say about the show to actually know how much hated it was or wasn´t. But the thing is: I´m not even talking about HATE. I´m simply talking about a percentage of people not liking it. Would you agree that Opera(music genre) is pretty divisive? I mean, a lot of people don´t like it. That doesn´t mean we see people hating on it the way Bieber is hated. A lot of people know about opera, but just don´t listen to it. It´s the same with B66. It´s very, very popular. But a lot of people simply don´t give a damn. They don´t like it and don´t watch it.

Now, from those who know the TV Show, is the percentage who likes it bigger than the percentage of dislikes it? Honestly, i don´t know, but i do think the percentage who dislikes it, or simply doesn´t give a damn, is bigger, based on what i´ve seen and heard.

But Ghost Rider was not unsuccessful. Critically yes it was panned, but it made a profit, enough for Marvel to green light a sequel. Plus it was a brand new movie. It was a multi million dollar comic book movie due for a nationwide theater release. In comparison to a five decade old TV show getting a DVD release. It's like comparing a wedding to a first day of school.

But the point is: You can have a movie that doesn´t have great reputation being featured at Comic Con.

It made a profit? Well, i don´t know if it made a profit. I know that 220 M worldwide for a movie that costed 110 M aren´t great results by any standard. Bad reviews and poor BO doesn´t exactly scream "Go make another one". And look at the results from this so "successful" franchise...

But they did. The Batman serials in in the 40's were not done campy. And even if people had never seen a serious take on Batman, why would that automatically make the campy version such a hit?

You keep trying to box people into categories saying they only like it because it was the first watchable Batman in color, or they only like it because they had never seen a serious Batman before etc.

Stop trying to dictate why other people like something. You can only speak for yourself. Your opinions on this are baseless.

To you the 1940 version is a serious dark Batman done right? I don´t even know what to tell you.

You keep trying to box people into categories saying they only like it because it was the first watchable Batman in color, or they only like it because they had never seen a serious Batman before etc.

Stop trying to dictate why other people like something. You can only speak for yourself. Your opinions on this are baseless.

I never said they only liked it because of it. But it could definitely have been a big factor, wich is a very logical theory. The most archaic forms of entertainment also had a fan base. Also had people who liked it. But why aren´t people buying Pong Consoles now instead of Xbox One, and why were they buying them in the 70´s? Maybe it´s because they´ve seen a lot of stuff and decided: "Ok, this is the best quality product", right?

Why does it have to be compared to something? When people walked out of The Godfather in 1972 they were not saying that was great compare to such and such. In my experience people love something for what it is, not compared to something else.

Because past experiences can absolutely have an influence in the way you judge things. That´s just basic human behaviour and i don´t see the point of arguing about it. It´s a fact. The more you have access to, the more picky you become.

How many times are you going to ask this same question? For the last time audiences don't want Batman or comic book movies done in that manner any more. But that doesn't mean they still don't love the old campy show. It's like audiences don't want black and white movies any more, but they still love the older classic ones that were done in black and white.

Just because one style is out of fashion now, doesn't mean it's not still loved. You know this. I don't why you keep asking it.

Really? They love Dracula from the 20´s? They, "who"? Your friends? The General Audiences? You make a lot of statements but i don´t see you providing any kind of proof that the audiences still love to watch the B&W classics. Are you talking about a small number of people? Like, 2% of the population? Or are you suggesting that most people still love and watch movies from the 30´s and 40´s? Because that´s not my experience at all.

Couldn't we also say we didn't have any proper dark comic book movies back in 1989 so Burton's Batman seemed awesome then?

You can absolutely say that, and it´s true. Like it´s also true for B66. The difference is that i can still watch B89 with any of my friends. B66..not so much.

No and I never claimed it was like with TDK. Those kinds of movies are easier to define because they're more of a hot topic and currently more relevant.

However it's easy to see if something is more hated than loved. And in Batman '66's case, it is clearly more liked than disliked.

I don´t think it´s crearly more liked. Just because you have a vocal fan base that still follows the show doesn´t mean that, from the total of people who knows it, most likes it. You have absolutely no data to back up that claim.

Would some statistical ratings maybe help prove it to you?

It's got 7.5/10 from users on IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059968/

8.5 on TV.com: http://www.tv.com/shows/batman-adam-west/

4 and a half out of 5 star rating so far on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Complet.../dp/B00LT1JHLW

4.5 from 500 reviews and 8.5 from 88 reviews. Let´s not pretend things are something they aren´t.

Batman 1966 has 7.5 with 10.000 votes. Now, what do we know about IMDB? We know that:

1- Most of the time, the smaller the number of votes, the higher the rating. This means that´s pretty common for a movie to have 8.5 with 10.000 votes and drop to 7.0 at the 100.000 mark, right? I believe we´ve seen that happen more often than not.

2- TV series generally have better ratings than movies. Maybe because it´s a movie site and people don´t go there too much to vote on TV series, so the people who vote are generally the people who watch and like the shows, hence the higher ratings. That´s why we see so many shows with 8´s and 9´s.

Now, Batman has a 7.5. For a TV show, a 7.5 is, i´d say, average, on IMDB. And it has 10.000 votes, wich is not a big number. So, even with a relatively small number of votes, it doesn´t have a great rating. The rating isn´t BAD, BAD, but it leads me to believe that people aren´t crazy about it. It´s not like they watch it and go "wooow, so funny. Amazing".

 

[The Joker]

Dude, that´s just giant.

Is that a problem for you? Nobody is forcing you to reply to any of this if the size is bothering you.

Well, BvS seems to be going in the dark and gritty direction, and i see more people interested in it than complaining about it. I don´t think there´s any movement to bring back a light and colorful Batman.

Of course there's interest in it. It's a Batman vs Superman movie. Any Batman movie would have interest, even a light colorful one. Because it's Batman. He's a big brand. Same with Superman. The name sells itself alone. Plus you're missing my point. Of course all these complaints about dark and gritty will not kill the interest. Because it doesn't dent the popularity of these movies. Just like the complaints about camp didn't hurt Batman 66's popularity.

Bieber is on the spotlight, that´s why it´s impossible to miss. B66 isn´t. We´d have to live in 1966 and pay attention to what people say about the show to actually know how much hated it was or wasn´t. But the thing is: I´m not even talking about HATE. I´m simply talking about a percentage of people not liking it. Would you agree that Opera(music genre) is pretty divisive? I mean, a lot of people don´t like it. That doesn´t mean we see people hating on it the way Bieber is hated. A lot of people know about opera, but just don´t listen to it. It´s the same with B66. It´s very, very popular. But a lot of people simply don´t give a damn. They don´t like it and don´t watch it.

We don't have to be living in 1966 to pay attention to what people say any more than we need to be in 1972 to know what kind of reception The Godfather got. What kind of crazy train of thought is that? We factually know the show was a major hit. One of the biggest phenomenons of the 60's along with Bond and The Beatles.

I have no idea how divisive people are on opera because I pay no attention to it. I know nothing about it. But I pay attention to Batman. I know the factual history of the show. I know what a mega hit it was. I know the popularity and influence it had.

You are blindly denying it. Why I don't know. But it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

Now, from those who know the TV Show, is the percentage who likes it bigger than the percentage of dislikes it? Honestly, i don´t know, but i do think the percentage who dislikes it, or simply doesn´t give a damn, is bigger, based on what i´ve seen and heard.

I know based on the mega popular reception it got, ratings it has, and the influence of it in pop culture. Your belief that more people dislike it is baseless. You keep saying it's just based on an impression you get. That's fine. But a personal impression doesn't help show or prove anything. It's just what you believe, rather than what is true. I'm sorry but reality doesn't work that way. Your impression is not backed up by anything factual. Mine is.

But the point is: You can have a movie that doesn´t have great reputation being featured at Comic Con.

It didn't have a reputation yet. The movie was not yet released. The first Ghost Rider movie had a rep, but this was the a sequel. Any new multi million dollar movie, be it Marvel or DC, will get a panel at Comic Con. It's promotion from the companies for their new movies.

Batman '66 has been over for DECADES. It was just getting a DVD release, not a major worldwide theater release where it was counting on box office to be successful. The show was done. But it had a huge fan base. If Batman '66 had a bad rep and was being promoted for a DVD release nearly 50 years later, then your point would be valid.

It made a profit? Well, i don´t know if it made a profit. I know that 220 M worldwide for a movie that costed 110 M aren´t great results by any standard. Bad reviews and poor BO doesn´t exactly scream "Go make another one". And look at the results from this so "successful" franchise...

Of course it made a profit. It made back double it's production budget. That was enough of a profit for them to make a sequel. Movies that fail to make a profit don't get sequels.

To you the 1940 version is a serious dark Batman done right? I don´t even know what to tell you.

It wasn't a campy bow bam biff, rubber shark, batusi dancing, Batman surfing version of Batman. By today's standards of course it looks silly. But back then, and I mean in the 60's, too, that was played as a drama not a camp tongue in cheek show like the 1966 one.

I never said they only liked it because of it. But it could definitely have been a big factor, wich is a very logical theory. The most archaic forms of entertainment also had a fan base. Also had people who liked it. But why aren´t people buying Pong Consoles now instead of Xbox One, and why were they buying them in the 70´s? Maybe it´s because they´ve seen a lot of stuff and decided: "Ok, this is the best quality product", right?

Why is it logical that it is a big factor? Based on what? Why would it being in color, or the fact that there had been no serious version of Batman mean that this campy Batman would be an automatic smash hit with people? Explain the logical process of that one to me. How does that work?

Because past experiences can absolutely have an influence in the way you judge things. That´s just basic human behaviour and i don´t see the point of arguing about it. It´s a fact. The more you have access to, the more picky you become.

That is completely untrue. Maybe that's how you judge a movies you see, you compare them to other movies, but people generally judge movies for what they are, not in comparison to other movies. Unless they're a sequel in a franchise, then naturally they will be compared to their predecessor in the series.

That is a fact.

Really? They love Dracula from the 20´s? They, "who"? Your friends? The General Audiences? You make a lot of statements but i don´t see you providing any kind of proof that the audiences still love to watch the B&W classics. Are you talking about a small number of people? Like, 2% of the population? Or are you suggesting that most people still love and watch movies from the 30´s and 40´s? Because that´s not my experience at all.

If you mean Nosferatu, yes that is still to this day considered a great classic horror.

Has an 8.0 rating on IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0013442/

A 4/5 rating from users on Rotten Tomatoes: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/nosferatu/

Then you have the other cinematic classic favorites like Psycho, King Kong, Citizen Kane, Casablanca etc etc. Could go on all day naming the black and white greats that are still loved to this day.

You can absolutely say that, and it´s true. Like it´s also true for B66. The difference is that i can still watch B89 with any of my friends. B66..not so much.

Really you think Batman 1989 was only liked because it was the first dark Batman movie? What do you base that on? Or is this just another case of you projecting your own feelings on everyone else.

I don´t think it´s crearly more liked. Just because you have a vocal fan base that still follows the show doesn´t mean that, from the total of people who knows it, most likes it. You have absolutely no data to back up that claim.

Yes I do. I already posted several examples. All of which you, surprise surprise, knocked back. I'll deal with that in a minute.

Would some statistical ratings maybe help prove it to you?

Absolutely.

4.5 from 500 reviews and 8.5 from 88 reviews. Let´s not pretend things are something they aren´t.

What do you mean pretend they are something they aren't? What am I supposedly pretending they are?

What are you talking about it's 8.5 from 1433 ratings. Not 88. That's 1433 more stats than you've shown. Find me some other website where users rate shows and movies, and we'll check out it's score there, too.

Batman 1966 has 7.5 with 10.000 votes. Now, what do we know about IMDB? We know that:

1- Most of the time, the smaller the number of votes, the higher the rating. This means that´s pretty common for a movie to have 8.5 with 10.000 votes and drop to 7.0 at the 100.000 mark, right? I believe we´ve seen that happen more often than not.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059968/ratings?ref_=tt_ov_rt

Out of the 10'000 votes 7872 of them give it a 7 or higher. Meaning the vast majority give it a good rating. Meaning the majority of those 10'000 like it. Which backs what I've been saying, the majority like the show. If you have stats that show otherwise, please post them.

2- TV series generally have better ratings than movies. Maybe because it´s a movie site and people don´t go there too much to vote on TV series, so the people who vote are generally the people who watch and like the shows, hence the higher ratings. That´s why we see so many shows with 8´s and 9´s.

More unfounded claims. What difference does it make if it's a TV show or a movie, people are still going to rate it on how much they like it. I don't know where you come up with these far flung theories of yours.

Now, Batman has a 7.5. For a TV show, a 7.5 is, i´d say, average, on IMDB. And it has 10.000 votes, wich is not a big number. So, even with a relatively small number of votes, it doesn´t have a great rating. The rating isn´t BAD, BAD, but it leads me to believe that people aren´t crazy about it. It´s not like they watch it and go "wooow, so funny. Amazing".

7.5 is a very good rating for anything on IMDb. Movies or TV shows. You're too hung up on the number of votes rather than what the votes themselves show, which is the majority like the show. You will not find a collection of ratings, whether it be in the hundreds or thousands, where the majority of the ratings are not good ones, as in 7 or higher. If most dislike it, or it was 50/50, then any sizable collection of ratings would show that.

Unless you have proof otherwise, then feel free post it. Is there some website, some collection of statistical data on this show that shows there's a divisive split, or a majority of dislike for it.

 

[Fincher]

I have no position on how popular Batman 66 is, but Nosferatu having a high rating doesn't prove that the majority of people like it. At most, it proves that the majority of people who care enough about old, black & white, silent movies (or about the history of film, or about venerated classics) to watch Nosferatu like it. Most people neither like nor dislike Nosferatu because they either ignore it or don't know it exists to begin with.

 

[Shinobi]

Of course there's interest in it. It's a Batman vs Superman movie. Any Batman movie would have interest, even a light colorful one. Because it's Batman. He's a big brand. Same with Superman. The name sells itself alone. Plus you're missing my point. Of course all these complaints about dark and gritty will not kill the interest. Because it doesn't dent the popularity of these movies. Just like the complaints about camp didn't hurt Batman 66's popularity.

I don´t see any indication that the majority of people would like to see a lighter Batman.

We don't have to be living in 1966 to pay attention to what people say any more than we need to be in 1972 to know what kind of reception The Godfather got. What kind of crazy train of thought is that? We factually know the show was a major hit. One of the biggest phenomenons of the 60's along with Bond and The Beatles.

I have no idea how divisive people are on opera because I pay no attention to it. I know nothing about it. But I pay attention to Batman. I know the factual history of the show. I know what a mega hit it was. I know the popularity and influence it had.

You are blindly denying it. Why I don't know. But it doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

Well, if all you do is pay attention to what people say, we´re on the same page. And from what i hear, it´s pretty divisive. It´s not divisive amongst the people who like the show OBVIOUSLY. It´s divisive amongst the totality of people who know the show.

I´m sorry, but not knowing absolutely anyone that particularly loves the show, and having known many people who made fun of it, i can´t possible agree with anything you say. It´s not blindly denying. It´s having a different opinion and experience from yours.

I know based on the mega popular reception it got, ratings it has, and the influence of it in pop culture. Your belief that more people dislike it is baseless. You keep saying it's just based on an impression you get. That's fine. But a personal impression doesn't help show or prove anything. It's just what you believe, rather than what is true. I'm sorry but reality doesn't work that way. Your impression is not backed up by anything factual. Mine is.

Your opinion isn´t backed up by anything factual. Your opinion is backed up by the wrong notion that good ratings and existing fan bases = Most people who know the show liked it.

Let me just give you a simple example:

Imagine that a show usually gets around 1 M viewers. In X years, 10 M have watched the show. So, 10 M know about it. But only 1 M really likes it and watches it on a regular basis. The other 9 M don´t give a crap about it, so they don´t follow it. Now, those 1M give great ratings and a lot of money to the network and make the show be perceived as very popular. And yet, from the 10 M who know about it, only 1 M watches it.

What does this mean? It means you can have a successful show, even if the majority doesn´t like it.

Of course it made a profit. It made back double it's production budget. That was enough of a profit for them to make a sequel. Movies that fail to make a profit don't get sequels.

2x is generally not enough for a movie to make a profit. Sometimes, not even to break even. SH movies have other sources of income, but that doesn´t mean the BO results could be considered successful, unless by success you mean barely making any money at all.

Why is it logical that it is a big factor? Based on what? Why would it being in color, or the fact that there had been no serious version of Batman mean that this campy Batman would be an automatic smash hit with people? Explain the logical process of that one to me. How does that work?

Based on history. Movies, games, computers. Everything, basically. Things that nowadays we would consider absolute crap were once loved, because at that time they were the best options we had available. Quality is always relative, and perception can be highly influenced by circumstancial factors.

Really you think Batman 1989 was only liked because it was the first dark Batman movie? What do you base that on? Or is this just another case of you projecting your own feelings on everyone else.

I don´t think it´s only liked because of that. But i think it was a factor for its huge success. It was the first time people were seeing Batman portrayed in a serious, dark fashion, so yeah, that curiosity and antecipation helped a lot. I don´t know how well received the movie would have been if it had been released after The Dark Knight, but i bet it wouldn´t have had nearly the same impact.

Honestly, i don´t know how many times i´ve heard people say stuff like "After watching B, is difficult to go back and watch A".

Yes I do. I already posted several examples. All of which you, surprise surprise, knocked back. I'll deal with that in a minute.

You didn´t provide any example that proves anything. Millions of people know what B66 is. How many of those millions enjoy to watch the show? You haven´t proved anything. The only thing you did was to show me how a small "x number" of people still follows the show. Other than that, you´ve showed me nothing.

What are you talking about it's 8.5 from 1433 ratings. Not 88. That's 1433 more stats than you've shown. Find me some other website where users rate shows and movies, and we'll check out it's score there, too.

You´re clearly not understanding what the issue is here, because you keep refering to small numbers people as evidence that this show is loved by the General Audiences. Maybe you live in a world where the GA is composed by 10 000 people or something, but in my world they´re a little bit more.

Out of the 10'000 votes 7872 of them give it a 7 or higher. Meaning the vast majority give it a good rating. Meaning the majority of those 10'000 like it. Which backs what I've been saying, the majority like the show. If you have stats that show otherwise, please post them.

So, 10000 people is the majority? What about all those millions that watched and didn´t even bother to vote? What about me? I didn´t vote, but i give it a 5. What about absolutely everyone i know? They didn´t vote, but they wouldn´t give it a 7, that´s for sure. Your majority is 10000 people? That´s the majority of what? The majority of the minority? Ok.

I have no position on how popular Batman 66 is, but Nosferatu having a high rating doesn't prove that the majority of people like it. At most, it proves that the majority of people who care enough about old, black & white, silent movies (or about the history of film, or about venerated classics) to watch Nosferatu like it. Most people neither like nor dislike Nosferatu because they either ignore it or don't know it exists to begin with.

He doesn´t understand that. Believe me, i´m not lying.

 

[The Joker]

I don´t see any indication that the majority of people would like to see a lighter Batman.

I never said they'd like to see it as campy, I said there would be interest simply because it's Batman. Batman attracts interest because he's a popular brand no matter what form he comes in.

Well, if all you do is pay attention to what people say, we´re on the same page. And from what i hear, it´s pretty divisive. It´s not divisive amongst the people who like the show OBVIOUSLY. It´s divisive amongst the totality of people who know the show.

Then you've been hearing it from the wrong places. Or doing selective reading. Either way it's a wrong impression you got.

I´m sorry, but not knowing absolutely anyone that particularly loves the show, and having known many people who made fun of it, i can´t possible agree with anything you say. It´s not blindly denying. It´s having a different opinion and experience from yours.

Suit yourself. But basing your opinion on what your social circle thinks is as flawed as it gets to forming an opinion on how popular something is.

Your opinion isn´t backed up by anything factual. Your opinion is backed up by the wrong notion that good ratings and existing fan bases = Most people who know the show liked it.

That's not a wrong notion. If most people disliked it, the ratings would show that. That's basic math. If there was an existing divisiveness or majority of hatred that would show in the stats ratings somewhere. Anywhere. I have asked you to show me anything that could indicate this, and all I've gotten is your impression based off your little social circle. Oh wait yes and Kevin Smith being scared to admit he's a fan once upon a time.

Let me just give you a simple example:

Imagine that a show usually gets around 1 M viewers. In X years, 10 M have watched the show. So, 10 M know about it. But only 1 M really likes it and watches it on a regular basis. The other 9 M don´t give a crap about it, so they don´t follow it. Now, those 1M give great ratings and a lot of money to the network and make the show be perceived as very popular. And yet, from the 10 M who know about it, only 1 M watches it.

What does this mean? It means you can have a successful show, even if the majority doesn´t like it.

That's a flawed analogy. It would take more than one million people out of the entire world to give a show the kind of status Batman 1966 has. Furthermore out of all the people who would rate it, no matter what website you look at, the if 9 million out of the 10 million majority didn't care for it that would be reflected in the stats.

Again this is common sense. If most people don't like something then it doesn't get high ratings. 2+2=4.

2x is generally not enough for a movie to make a profit. Sometimes, not even to break even. SH movies have other sources of income, but that doesn´t mean the BO results could be considered successful, unless by success you mean barely making any money at all.

Of course double the budget back is enough for a movie to make a profit. Unless the movie had a lot of costs like marketing, then it wouldn't be profitable. That's why movies like Dredd which didn't even it make it's budget back are not getting a sequel, despite it's critical success and general popularity, it didn't even make it's budget back. The sad reality is that movies can be panned but as long as they make money they keep getting made. That was the case with Ghost Rider. It made money. It made profit. Enough to warrant a sequel.

Based on history. Movies, games, computers. Everything, basically. Things that nowadays we would consider absolute crap were once loved, because at that time they were the best options we had available. Quality is always relative, and perception can be highly influenced by circumstancial factors.

This is a vague flimsy answer. Give me examples of something that had the level of success and popularity of their day like Batman '66, that is now considered crap today.

I don´t think it´s only liked because of that. But i think it was a factor for its huge success. It was the first time people were seeing Batman portrayed in a serious, dark fashion, so yeah, that curiosity and antecipation helped a lot. I don´t know how well received the movie would have been if it had been released after The Dark Knight, but i bet it wouldn´t have had nearly the same impact.

Well of course it wouldn't have the same impact now if it came after TDK. Much like The Wizard of Oz or Star Wars wouldn't have the same impacts they did in their time because now they are not as innovative as they were back in their day. But has their status as the great movies they are fallen into obscurity? No. They're still considered classic greats. Still highly revered movies and not because there was nothing better at the time.

But that doesn't mean people predominantly liked them just because it was something never done before. People judge movies for what they are. That's how you know if you like them or not.

Honestly, i don´t know how many times i´ve heard people say stuff like "After watching B, is difficult to go back and watch A".

That's usually when something very dated is improved upon in almost every way that it makes the previous movie unwatchable.

You didn´t provide any example that proves anything. Millions of people know what B66 is. How many of those millions enjoy to watch the show? You haven´t proved anything. The only thing you did was to show me how a small "x number" of people still follows the show. Other than that, you´ve showed me nothing.

For the umpteenth time, if the majority of people didn't like the show, that would be reflected in it's ratings. For example the movie you were comparing this to earlier, Batman and Robin, we know the majority dislike that. How? Poor ratings, poor critical reception, general bad word of mouth about it anywhere you go.

Tell me you can show me the same kind of evidence against Batman '66.

You´re clearly not understanding what the issue is here, because you keep refering to small numbers people as evidence that this show is loved by the General Audiences. Maybe you live in a world where the GA is composed by 10 000 people or something, but in my world they´re a little bit more.

Don't play dumb. You know I'm not saying the G.A. is made of 10'000 people. What I'm saying is those are all statistical examples of people voting, whether it be in the hundreds or thousands, all showing the majority of the votes far weigh in the favor of the show being liked.

I haven't got any stats that show millions of ratings of high votes for TDK, or The Avengers, or The Godfather, but we all know the G.A. loves them because of the high ratings they have. The general positive word of mouth they get far outweighing any bad mouthing they get.

Same for Batman '66, only a quieter scale in comparison to them because they are on a whole other level of iconic popularity status to it.

So, 10000 people is the majority? What about all those millions that watched and didn´t even bother to vote? What about me? I didn´t vote, but i give it a 5. What about absolutely everyone i know? They didn´t vote, but they wouldn´t give it a 7, that´s for sure. Your majority is 10000 people? That´s the majority of what? The majority of the minority? Ok.

See my above post. I could say the same what about the millions who didn't vote for TDK, or The Avengers, or Jaws, or The Godfather, because no website I am aware of has rating numbers in the millions for these mega popular movies. Maybe TDK on IMDB has over a million, and we all know why that is, because of all the sock account voting that went on when the movie was released to push the movie's rating down after IMDb user went nuts over it displacing the likes of The Godfather and the Shawshank Redemption.

But are you going to try and tel me you need to see MILLIONS of ratings to believe these movies are loved by the general audience?

He doesn´t understand that. Believe me, i´m not lying.

There's a difference between not understanding something, and not agreeing with it. I'm in the latter. I never said Nosferatu was a well known movie by today's general audiences. I said today it's still a beloved revered classic horror. Nosferatu is probably not well known today by general audiences, but those that do know of it, the majority love it. Those that rate it, it the majority love it. It gets re-screened all the time all over the world and can still sell out theaters:

http://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/nosferatu-1930-screening-sold-out-tickets-12353478587

http://www.theconcordinsider.com/article/encore-screening-of-‘nosferatu’-at-red-river

http://www.heightstheater.com/film/nosferatu/

That goes for a lot of the great classic black and white movies. You know the old style that is no longer used today, but is still loved even though audiences prefer color now. Which was the original point you were trying to argue against. Just because a newer style is preferred way to go doesn't mean the old style is no longer loved.