F'dup Chapters in American History(The Trump Years) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 29

[Prettyricky]

So because this isn't the first time it should be ignored? Wtf man. And unless you can prove it's happened before, how about you stop trying to make that claim? It's so obvious that Trump's campaign colluded with the Russians. If you want to know the specifics of what Trump has done for Russia, just google it.

I never said ignore it though, I said lets not stick our head in the sand and pretend it most likely hasnt happened before.

 

[Prettyricky]

Trump's in the business of doing **** for himself. He sold the US out for illegally obtained information in the sense that it's not America's best interests he cares about. It's Russia's and himself. Ask the farmers how well he's fought for them. Or the GM workers. Or the LGBTQ community.

He owes the Kremlin and that's his first priority.

In terms of policy or rhetoric? Because there 2 different things and Im asking for examples how we were sold out.

LGBTQ community has the same rights as under obama and GM is on GM. I didnt lay that bailout at obamas feet so we Cant do it now.

 

[Donner]

Its kind of like the patriots video taping teams practice plays and got caught, everyone did it most likely thoughout history but the pats were the ones that got caught first.

"It seems like something that has happened before, so it probably has. Even though I have no proof. It just feels correct."

 

[MaceB]

Its kind of like the patriots video taping teams practice plays and got caught, everyone did it most likely thoughout history but the pats were the ones that got caught first.

You have no evidence of this.

 

[Sithborg]

In terms of policy or rhetoric? Because there 2 different things and Im asking for examples how we were sold out.

LGBTQ community has the same rights as under obama and GM is on GM. I didnt lay that bailout at obamas feet so we Cant do it now.

They really don't. Given that Trump has rolled back any guidelines that say government contractors can't discriminate.

 

[Fading]

As much as I dislike this president and get a constant headache trying to keep up with this collusion investigation, at the end of the day unless actual voting stations were hacked into and votes were changed or dead americans somehow casted votes black sheep style how can we really say the russians handed him the election? I was mad she lost but if freewill by voters is what took place then I have to accept that which hurts. I would dare to say comey is a big reason she lost with him announcing close to the election he was reopening his investigation into her.

Others have already said it well. Misinformation or not, it was a legal vote. Given Hillary lost by 80,000 votes, it may have made the difference, who knows. Also, as you say, getting info on an opponent isn't illegal in, and of itself.

The problem is how Trump did it. There are laws in place he potentially broke. Did he have a connection to the DNC hack, or the info received from it? Did he violate campaign finance laws? Did several of his staff members meet with members of the Russian government? Did he promise them anything, off the books? Is he being blackmailed? Did he funnel campaign contributions? There are a lot more potential illegal acts beyond those as well.

I think it's important to uphold the law. Especially at the highest levels where real harm can be done. Knowing whether the most powerful man in our country is compromised is important enough to investigate.

That, plus the investigation started out from tips from Australia that Russia was attempting to mess with the election. Trump was pulled into it by his own fault. His children held the meeting in Trump Tower. Held conversations, and text messages with the Russian lawyer. Maybe conversed with the people behind the hack, and Assange himself. He hired Manafort, a known bad guy. Several of his staff met with Russians. Trump also mentioned info about the hack before it became public knowledge, asked Rusia to hack Hillary, and said he gets a lot of money from Russia. It's not as if Trump got pulled into it out of nowhere.

 

[Sithborg]

I think it is important to say that nobody is saying that Trump's election is invalid.

 

[Donner]

In terms of policy or rhetoric? Because there 2 different things and Im asking for examples how we were sold out.

LGBTQ community has the same rights as under obama and GM is on GM. I didnt lay that bailout at obamas feet so we Cant do it now.

Trump is actively trying to take away the rights of the LGBTQ community. Head over into the Gay Rights thread and you'll see that. The tariffs played a part in GM's folding. And now he's eyeing new tariffs.

Trump gave Russians classified information:

Trump revealed highly classified information to Russians, say reports - Macleans.ca

Not to mention his continued refusal to denounce Russia for anything. Syria being an exception. He did denounce them on Twitter and the Russians pretty much ignored him, so it's hard to say that it was effective. Perhaps Twitter is not the best avenue to make "formal" declarations.

The point, yet again, is that Trump's policies benefit himself and his rich buddies the most, not the American people. And again, he's indebted to the Kremlin for their illegal acts in obtaining information. Your president is at the mercy of Putin. Have fun with that.

 

[Fading]

In terms of policy or rhetoric? Because there 2 different things and Im asking for examples how we were sold out.

LGBTQ community has the same rights as under obama and GM is on GM. I didnt lay that bailout at obamas feet so we Cant do it now.

GM reportedly has lost 1 billion to the steel tarrifs. I'm not sure I'd say this is entirely on GM. You can't business your way out of a billion dollar loss caused by your president starting a tariff war.

 

[Donner]

I think it is important to say that nobody is saying that Trump's election is invalid.

It's scary as ****. His rhetoric has incited the deplorables in my home province. The most moronic of the bunch have created sweaters and tshirts with a picture of a tree and a noose and it says "Trudeau, come west." When Harper was PM, the left protested against him by writing "Harper" on stop signs. This group of right wingers are ****ing nuts. But, both sides

 

[Sithborg]

Yeah, Trump doesn't understand the damage his tariffs have caused to the supply chain.

 

[Prettyricky]

GM reportedly has lost 1 billion to the steel tarrifs. I'm not sure I'd say this is entirely on GM. You can't business your way out of a billion dollar loss caused by your president starting a tariff war.

I heard on the news though the tariffs played a part but overall horrible business practices led to this.

Senators, union press GM CEO on plant closings, job cuts


“Since early 2017, GM has cut two of the three production shifts at the Ohio plant that makes the Chevrolet Cruze car, eliminating 3,000 jobs. GM has said it is closing the plants due to sagging demand for cars.

In addition to the plant closings, GM is cutting about 8,000 salaried jobs in North America on top of the 2,250 salaried workers who volunteered to take buyouts.
”

 

[Prettyricky]

Yeah, Trump doesn't understand the damage his tariffs have caused to the supply chain.

But GM reported healthy third-quarter profits of $2.5 billion though

 

[Fading]

I can't see ANY other campaign thinking that getting dirt from a foreign power was okay. Any other campaign most likely would have turned down said aid and immediately reported it to the FBI.

When Al Gore's Campaign Received Illegal Election Material, He Turned It in to the FBI

When Al Gore's Campaign Received Illegal Election Material, He Turned It in to the FBI

Plus, I hate the argument that because others may have done it before, we shouldn't pursue it. Aside from being such a slippery slope. Breaking the law is breaking the law. Just because someone may have gotten away with it in the past doesn't excuse ignoring it looking us in the face now.

 

[Sithborg]

But GM reported healthy third-quarter profits of $2.5 billion though

Frankly, I question all financial reports of the last fiscal year. As they will have the one time bump of the bailout for the rich.

 

[Donner]

'This isn't what we were promised': Amid GM closures, Trump's economic policies are coming home to roost | CBC News

 

[Fading]

But GM reported healthy third-quarter profits of $2.5 billion though

They've lost 1 billion already. Not the entire two years of Trump's presidency, but only since the steel tariffs kicked in. Bad previous business practices, or not. Losing 1 billion every few months is not sustainable.

From what I understand, the layoffs are part of a 3 billion in cost plan to restructure GM. Probably in part to offset the steel tariff, as well as the bad business practices you mentioned.

 

[Prettyricky]

When Al Gore's Campaign Received Illegal Election Material, He Turned It in to the FBI



Plus, I hate the argument that because others may have done it before, we shouldn't pursue it. Aside from being such a slippery slope. Breaking the law is breaking the law. Just because someone may have gotten away with it in the past doesn't excuse ignoring it looking us in the face now.

And I never said that, just saying dont act surprised this has happened like its the first time.

 

[Donner]

And I never said that, just saying dont act surprised this has happened like its the first time.

PROVE IT. Stop making claims that you can't back up. Just because you feel as if it's something that has happened before, doesn't mean it has. Either pony up the evidence or just stop.

 

[Prettyricky]

PROVE IT. Stop making claims that you can't back up. Just because you feel as if it's something that has happened before, doesn't mean it has. Either pony up the evidence or just stop.

Its kind of hard to prove work thats done in The shadows and back channels most of the time, hence why I said this time if true the russians were the ones with there hand caught in the cookie jar. You seem to clearly be firm in saying this is the first time ever Since our countries inception that collusion and sharing of info to smear a political opponent has happened whether legal or illegal depending on which lawyer you talk to.

 

[MaceB]

Its kind of hard to prove work thats done in The shadows and back channels most of the time, hence why I said this time if true the russians were the ones with there hand caught in the cookie jar. You seem to clearly be firm in saying this is the first time ever Since our countries inception that collusion and sharing of info to smear a political opponent has happened whether legal or illegal depending on which lawyer you talk to.

It's more like it wouldn't matter even if it had happened before. To use your analogy, the Patriots deserved to get burned, whether they were the first ones or not. Unless you have a compelling narrative that shows otherwise.

 

[Teelie]

Which is why the ignore/block feature is annoying and childish.

(although it does give me an LOL when someone tells me they're blocking me, SPOILER WARNING you can't block mods)

It might be childish to you but I find it more childish to try debating or changing the minds of people who will never change their minds or admit to being wrong.

It's a waste of time and energy to even attempt it. If they were willing to listen, to admit to being wrong or just not being evasive when confronted with the truth it might be different.

 

[OB12]

Its kind of hard to prove work thats done in The shadows and back channels most of the time, hence why I said this time if true the russians were the ones with there hand caught in the cookie jar. You seem to clearly be firm in saying this is the first time ever Since our countries inception that collusion and sharing of info to smear a political opponent has happened whether legal or illegal depending on which lawyer you talk to.

That is quite clearly not what is being said. You are cynically saying that since everyone is in bed with everyone else, without proof mind you, that we just throw up our hands and let the system devolve. Candidates routinely do opposition research on opponents, but what we don't know and have never had evidence of is a sort of "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" relationship between a campaign and hostile foreign power. Until now.

 

[Prettyricky]

It's more like it wouldn't matter even if it had happened before. To use your analogy, the Patriots deserved to get burned, whether they were the first ones or not. Unless you have a compelling narrative that shows otherwise.

Um that was what I meant though. Burn um at the stake if they break a law but once again dont act surprised like this has never happened before

 

[Prettyricky]

That is quite clearly not what is being said. You are cynically saying that since everyone is in bed with everyone else, without proof mind you, that we just throw up our hands and let the system devolve. Candidates routinely do opposition research on opponents, but what we don't know and have never had evidence of is a sort of "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" relationship between a campaign and hostile foreign power. Until now.

Of coure Im being cynical. If this is proven true by mueller then take um all to jail but again for the last freaking time dont act surprised as if this kind of stuff has never
Happened in the past and since thats hard to understand apparently that doesnt mean me saying let trump and russia
Slide this time ether just IF true they were the ones caught on this level for the first time