The Dark Knight Rises Fighting Studio Corruption

[Gianakin_]

I'm pretty sure the pod was Nolan's idea and WB had nothing to do with it.

Yep, it was his idea. Nolan loves his weird gadgetry.

 

[The Mobb]

The WB aren't going to mess with Nolan for one very good reason: they drove this franchise into the ground once already. They know that fans will not back just any crap they put out, and they know that fans trust Nolan. They are going to want to keep him on board at all costs, and Nolan won't make a movie his heart isn't behind.

 

["V"]

"Treat making that film, however you're making it, not as a means to an end, but as the best film you're ever going to make. If you're making it for money, then you're never going to do it and it's never going to be any good. Do something you believe in, something you love, and enjoy it."

I think Nolan would walk rather than do something that's not in line with his vision. I'm not convinced he'll even do a third. That said, I think Warner Bros. have learnt their lesson from the previous franchise(s) and wouldn't interfere if he did want to do his third.

 

[Shane Diesel]

As long as Nolan comes back WB won't interfere. If Nolan doesn't come back then expect WB to start mingling into everything. They'll probably look for a director with a similar take at first but who knows how far they'll go. There will be a Third film with or without Nolan. Make no mistake about that. They didn't reject script after script and bring back the Batman franchise from development hell only to see it close after 2 films. Especially after the juggernaut that DK became.

 

[chaseter]

Well, WB is going to announce that they are pushing back Harry Potter 6 to summer of '09 instead of this fall '08 so that they can make more money. This is bad news for Potter fans of course but this is also signaling the beginning of the WB at becoming a corrupt studio. This was my orginal argument and I can now almost guarantee that if Batman 3 happens...it has a chance at being awful due to studio heads pushing things to bring in more money. We will never get a rated R Batman now PERIOD. If Nolan is under close guard, then he might quit or not even come back for a 3rd.

 

[David Rice]

Well, WB is going to announce that they are pushing back Harry Potter 6 to summer of '09 instead of this fall '08 so that they can make more money. This is bad news for Potter fans of course but this is also signaling the beginning of the WB at becoming a corrupt studio. This was my orginal argument and I can now almost guarantee that if Batman 3 happens...it has a chance at being awful due to studio heads pushing things to bring in more money. We will never get a rated R Batman now PERIOD. If Nolan is under close guard, then he might quit or not even come back for a 3rd.

I reallly don't think so. The WB will not risk pissing off Nolan and this team now that TDK has made so much money. They have already closed down the JLA movie for this very reason.

And not getting an R Batman is a good thing.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Well, WB is going to announce that they are pushing back Harry Potter 6 to summer of '09 instead of this fall '08 so that they can make more money. This is bad news for Potter fans of course but this is also signaling the beginning of the WB at becoming a corrupt studio. This was my orginal argument and I can now almost guarantee that if Batman 3 happens...it has a chance at being awful due to studio heads pushing things to bring in more money. We will never get a rated R Batman now PERIOD. If Nolan is under close guard, then he might quit or not even come back for a 3rd.

They moved HP b/c the writer's strike left them without a tent pole film for next summer. Its smart business sense. Claiming its corruption is a little melodramatic.

I still don't understand how you can "guarantee" that WB will interfere with Batman 3 when DK has exceeded all their expectations.

And when was an R rated Batman film ever on the table?

The only thing that makes sense in your post is the very last statement. But what gives you any indication that the studio would interfere with Nolan? Did DK fail to meet BO estimates? Did WB get complaints from tie in partners? Was DK a critical and BO failure?

 

[David Rice]

They moved HP b/c the writer's strike left them without a tent pole film for next summer. Its smart business sense. Claiming its corruption is a little melodramatic.

I still don't understand how you can "guarantee" that WB will interfere with Batman 3 when DK has exceeded all their expectations.

And when was an R rated Batman film ever on the table?

Thank you.

 

[pickleweasle]

Was it really Raimi's fault for Venom in SM3? Or was it Sony's? Honestly (and I can't believe I'm saying this) I think it was our fault. We all wanted Venom after seeing SM2. If we had faith in Raimi to do what was right for the series ,like we are with Nolan, SM3 would have been much better and we wouldn't have had that crammed mess. I still think Venom should have been saved for a SM4 because, if you are going to do something, do it right.

 

[ray243]

Yup...that is a reason why fans should not be allowed to interfer with the directors...

 

[chaseter]

They moved HP b/c the writer's strike left them without a tent pole film for next summer. Its smart business sense. Claiming its corruption is a little melodramatic.

I still don't understand how you can "guarantee" that WB will interfere with Batman 3 when DK has exceeded all their expectations.

And when was an R rated Batman film ever on the table?

The only thing that makes sense in your post is the very last statement. But what gives you any indication that the studio would interfere with Nolan? Did DK fail to meet BO estimates? Did WB get complaints from tie in partners? Was DK a critical and BO failure?

The WB wanted to make a lot of money from a summer tentpole like TDK did this year and is still doing. It is smart business but ruining a movie to sell tickets is smart business as it offers a well rate of return (X3, SM3, POTC3, etc...). This is the WB stepping into a franchise even though the movie is finished in order to make more money. That would be called corruption IMO Art house flicks that win critical acclaim and go on to make 10 times their budget are done in part because corruption is not part of the equation.

Look at every studio and try and name one movie in which the third or fourth of the series was better than the its predecessors. You cannot sit there and say that the studios do not come in and interject. I can maybe think of LOTR and that is about it...in which the third and final movie was truly the best. Watch what WB tries to do to the third Batman movie. They will listen to fans, and try to top TDK so that more money can be earned. I guess that is what you would call 'smart business.'

Lastly, Batman is one of the few comic book heroes that is pretty graphic and some fans yearn for an R Batman flick and TDK was one stab...literally...away from that rating. But then again making it rated R after TDK would be a 'bad move' on WB execs parts now wouldn't it I will stake quite a bit on the fact that WB will interfere with Nolan or at least try to. He may quit, he may not return, I don't know. But look for them to try and put a big name that has been thrown around the internet to be a powerhouse villian for the third movie. It is naive to think that WB doesn't want to top TDK and increase their revenues...good business eh

Did I say any of that in my post? I sure missed it. Or, are you just putting that in your post to make you sound clever?

 

[chaseter]

Was it really Raimi's fault for Venom in SM3? Or was it Sony's? Honestly (and I can't believe I'm saying this) I think it was our fault. We all wanted Venom after seeing SM2. If we had faith in Raimi to do what was right for the series ,like we are with Nolan, SM3 would have been much better and we wouldn't have had that crammed mess. I still think Venom should have been saved for a SM4 because, if you are going to do something, do it right.

You are absolutely right...which is why I will not post casting rumors or suggestions. People glorified SM2 because it was a good movie. Then rabid fans went at it and Sony along with Arad pushed for villians that fans wanted in the third so that they would sell tickets....look what happened Now look at this forum...the Batman Begins sequels forum and it sadly mirrors the Spider-Man sequels forums...fans going rabid for more MORE

I have faith in Nolan 100% with everthing I have...I don't have faith in Warner Brothers anymore

 

[Shane Diesel]

The WB wanted to make a lot of money from a summer tentpole like TDK did this year and is still doing. It is smart business but ruining a movie to sell tickets is smart business as it offers a well rate of return (X3, SM3, POTC3, etc...). This is the WB stepping into a franchise even though the movie is finished in order to make more money. That would be called corruption IMO Art house flicks that win critical acclaim and go on to make 10 times their budget are done in part because corruption is not part of the equation.

Corruption is the wrong word. Corporate corruption would be something like falsifying records which is what Enron did. The correct word you're looking for is greed.

But HP being moved is a bad example if you're trying to support an argument based on corporate greed. It would be valid if WB had 2-3 summer tent pole films and they decided to throw HP in there as well. But that's not the case since due to the writer's strike they don't have summer blockbusters for 2009. It makes sound business sense to play to their strengths and move a profitable film like HP for a summer release in place of a film they should have but don't due to circumstances out of their control.

But you're claiming this is "corruption." I don't think every business decision can be equated to corporate greed or corruption. This type of thinking is reflective of the philistine who chants that gov and corporations are corrupt just by their very existence.

Look at every studio and try and name one movie in which the third or fourth of the series was better than the its predecessors. You cannot sit there and say that the studios do not come in and interject. I can maybe think of LOTR and that is about it...in which the third and final movie was truly the best. Watch what WB tries to do to the third Batman movie. They will listen to fans, and try to top TDK so that more money can be earned. I guess that is what you would call 'smart business.'

I don't understand the logic here. You're claiming that the latter movies of a franchise turn out poor and create the impetus for studios to intervene. But how does this apply to this franchise where a third film hasn't even come out yet and the second film far exceeded their expectations?

The logic doesn't add up.

Lastly, Batman is one of the few comic book heroes that is pretty graphic and some fans yearn for an R Batman flick and TDK was one stab...literally...away from that rating.

I don't understand this either. When was Batman ever intended to be a R rated film? You make it sound like the studio planned on an R rated Batman and then green lighted films that moved away from this and towards a PG 13 rating.

But then again making it rated R after TDK would be a 'bad move' on WB execs parts now wouldn't it

I don't understand how creating a film that appeals to a wider audience is "studio corruption?"

I will stake quite a bit on the fact that WB will interfere with Nolan or at least try to. He may quit, he may not return, I don't know. But look for them to try and put a big name that has been thrown around the internet to be a powerhouse villian for the third movie. It is naive to think that WB doesn't want to top TDK and increase their revenues...good business eh

No what's naive is to claim a corporation trying to manage its properties and assets is engaging in "corruption." What are you going to argue next that the gov. is covering up alien encounters?

Did I say any of that in my post? I sure missed it. Or, are you just putting that in your post to make you sound clever?

You haven't given any legitimate reasons why you think there will be studio "corruption" in the third film. First its a misnomer and the wrong word for the point you are trying to make. Second you haven't provided the basis for why you think WB will interfere. Studios interfere when a film fails to meet financial expectations (Batman Returns) or there's creative differences (Spiderman 3). I don't see any evidence of that with the case of Nolan's films and you haven't provided any. Rather you're using baseless conjecture to support a nonsensical argument and even worse you are claiming you "guarantee" it.

 

[chaseter]

^Movie corruption...a studio's ability to corrupt a movie from it's own greed/business practices = studio corruption. I am not talking about Martha Stewart.

 

[chaseter]

Corruption is the wrong word. Corporate corruption would be something like falsifying records which is what Enron did. The correct word you're looking for is greed.

Ahhh...did I say corporate corruption? I said studio corruption which is a studio corrupting a movie/movie franchise for the sole purpose of making more money. It would be corporate greed/business practices that leads to studio corruption...understand now?

But HP being moved is a bad example if you're trying to support an argument based on corporate greed. It would be valid if WB had 2-3 summer tent pole films and they decided to throw HP in there as well. But that's not the case since due to the writer's strike they don't have summer blockbusters for 2009. It makes sound business sense to play to their strengths and move a profitable film like HP for a summer release in place of a film they should have but don't due to circumstances out of their control.

How is that not a prime example of greed? Moving a movie that is entirely finished to a later date to make more money? Really Using the writer's strike is a justifiable excuse to make the move to Summer to try and reproduce TDK numbers. The writer's strike was over before shooting even ended so bumping up the release date months ago before marketing started would have occurred if the writer's strike were actually to blame. It is not hard to connect the dots after TDK has made over half a billion worldwide already.

But you're claiming this is "corruption." I don't think every business decision can be equated to corporate greed or corruption. This type of thinking is reflective of the philistine who chants that gov and corporations are corrupt just by their very existence.

They are corrupt by their very existance. Cutting all possible corners to make the most money. It is smart business, no one is arguing that...just bad business. There are different levels of greed.

I don't understand the logic here. You're claiming that the latter movies of a franchise turn out poor and create the impetus for studios to intervene. But how does this apply to this franchise where a third film hasn't even come out yet and the second film far exceeded their expectations?

Look at the examples I gave you...SM2, X3, Shrek 3, T3, POTC3, too many to list. All hugely successful franchises that had good first and great second movies. Now what happens after the second movies are successes? The studios interject to maximize profits. If that be upping the budget for more explosions, hiring more big name actors for roles, giving the fans what they want to see, etc...all to make more money. It isn't that hard to fathom that logic

I don't understand this either. When was Batman ever intended to be a R rated film? You make it sound like the studio planned on an R rated Batman and then green lighted films that moved away from this and towards a PG 13 rating.

Did I say it was intended to be...Noooooo...putting words in another's mouth yet again to try and build up a straw man. I was saying that all hopes for a future R Batman are now gone because that would decrease profits.

I don't understand how creating a film that appeals to a wider audience is "studio corruption?"

Really? Here is hoping they make the next Batman PG so that everyone can see it... It will appeal to a wider audience after all and that is perfectly fine right?

No what's naive is to claim a corporation trying to manage its properties and assets is engaging in "corruption." What are you going to argue next that the gov. is covering up alien encounters?

Managing properties and maximizing profits are two different things. And then we follow with another asanine sentence.

You haven't given any legitimate reasons why you think there will be studio "corruption" in the third film. First its a misnomer and the wrong word for the point you are trying to make. Second you haven't provided the basis for why you think WB will interfere. Studios interfere when a film fails to meet financial expectations (Batman Returns) or there's creative differences (Spiderman 3). I don't see any evidence of that with the case of Nolan's films and you haven't provided any. Rather you're using baseless conjecture to support a nonsensical argument and even worse you are claiming you "guarantee" it.

I gave you many examples. Creative differences for SM3...haha that made me laugh. Yes, Raimi who had crafted two great films had creative differences with Sony and guess who lost? Nolan will not give in to interferance and I respect him immensely for that. And if it does happen, he will not return, he will quit, or worst of all he will stay on with "creative assistance."

 

[ray243]

Maybe we should change the title to fighting FAN corruption....after all...how many fans could make a film as good as nolan?

 

[returntovoid]

Warner Bros. is not going to force Nolan to do another Batman film, this variety article confirms that Warner Bros. and Nolan have not talked about the third film.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117990659.html?categoryid=13&cs=1

 

[Ledgerbats]

True, but Nolan is not Raimi and this is DC not Marvel. IMO at this point DC has never made a bad comic book film, Marvel has made many bad films.

Steel, Batman and Robin, Catwoman, Superman 4, Swamp Thing movies. They have made plenty of bad films.

 

[The Demon's Head]

Warner Bros. is not going to force to Nolan to do another Batman film, this variety article confirms that Warner Bros. and Nolan have not talked about the third film.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117990659.html?categoryid=13&cs=1

That makes me a little worried.

 

[Ledgerbats]

Warner Bros. is not going to force to Nolan to do another Batman film, this variety article confirms that Warner Bros. and Nolan have not talked about the third film.

So? They can't force the man to do anything. TDK came out less than a month ago, and you guys are crying about this?

 

[chaseter]

Warner Bros. is not going to force Nolan to do another Batman film, this variety article confirms that Warner Bros. and Nolan have not talked about the third film.

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117990659.html?categoryid=13&cs=1

It is too early to talk about a third film when the second isn't even out of theatres

A better saying is that Nolan will not let WB force him to do another Batman. WB will try and if he quits or doesn't return...then we will still get another Batman from a different director. We will get another Batman within 5 years no matter what. If Nolan stays or doesn't we will find out.

 

[chaseter]

Maybe we should change the title to fighting FAN corruption....after all...how many fans could make a film as good as nolan?

There are a few in this forum No one can fight the fans...they are too rabid and numerous.

 

[ray243]

There are a few in this forum No one can fight the fans...they are too rabid and numerous.

There is a difference between appealing to the batman fans, and appealing to everyone, including the batman fans.

 

[TheVileOne]

What is wrong with a Harry Potter move to summer? Nothing really. It's a SMART move.

Summer season is almost barren in June and July 08. This evens it out and gives WB a huge, surefire hit release for 09.

 

[chaseter]

What is wrong with a Harry Potter move to summer? Nothing really. It's a SMART move.

Summer season is almost barren in June and July 08. This evens it out and gives WB a huge, surefire hit release for 09.

No one is saying it isn't smart business...I am saying it is a studio stepping in with creative control and decision making to make more money. Really people how is that not coming across

Sony and Arad forcing Raimi to add in Venom was smart business. It made that movie break records.