Fant4stic "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

[cronosred]

I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I have no problem with actors preferring a white Johnny Storm, but some of the arguments against Michael B. Jordan are among some of the stupidest posts I've ever seen on the Hype.

You must not go in many casting threads.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I made a separate thread to discuss the race issue.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=458147

 

[cronosred]

That is not the same at all are you kidding me lol Black Panthers race and nationality are at the core of who he is lmao thats like making the Marian Manhunter a Kryptonian.. Luke Cage however could be a latino because there are a lot of Spanish speaking countries whose people have black skin so I have no idea where you going with that or that Falcon comment.

Why is being white any less important than being black for a character?

 

[Closerframe]

I honestly don't care. I'm not saying those strongly opposed or not open to the idea at all are racist, but to say it goes against the long history of the character as the argument is just pure stupidity. To suggest that Johnny being white in the comics made him who he was means you know nothing about the character. As Jordan mentioned, Storm is a cocky, arrogant, and playboy (those are the essentials to his character). Some have said if you make Johnny black you then have to make Sue black too, why is this exactly? One or both could have been adopted, they could have two different fathers, or any number of other ways families have multiracial children.

Another argument is "there are plenty of black superheroes" or "why not just make Black Panther white?" Once again, critics need to be able to differentiate between what it means for a character's race to be essential versus not. Black Panther is a black guy for a reason. Changes to a character shouldn't matter based on his race, but whether or not the actor playing the character will do a good job--only if the race of the character is not a fundamental part of who the character is (i.e. Khan should not be played by a white guy).

 

[Zarex]

So he changes the color of his skin. What's being sacrificed? What's being lost in translation other than tradition? We're sill getting the same character with just a visual difference to his human self (and not even the most important visual aspect of the character).

I believe this is where the disconnect is taking place. The Johnny Storm version of The Human Torch has a history going back to 1961, 1939 if you include the similar looking Jim Hammond. For iconic characters, such as a key member of Timely's Big Three and Marvel's First Family, tradition is everything.

Also, to me, unlike Superman, Batman, and others who's race has to do with the character in superhero clothing visually, Johnny Storm's distinct visual appearance is when he's on fire. Storm in civilian clothing I don't think is as distinct visually as say, Peter Parker or Clark Kent. His Human Torch self, to me, has always been more important.

Comics are a visual medium, which is why fans get giddy when we see RDJ, Henry Cavill and Chris Hemsworth sporting a "leapt off of the comic book page" appearance while in full costume. We've already seen Johnny Storm countless times through the decades, and due to the nature of his powers Johnny spends only a fraction of his time in comics or on screen fully alflame. Given the fact that Spider-man is fully masked, I was actually onboard the Donald Glover as Peter Parker bandwagon. I was a fan of his work on Community and felt he would fit seemlessly into the role. A racial recast of Johnny Storm not only changes his iconic appearance, it also requires an alteration in the relationship to his genetic sibling. That may not matter to you, but to others it appears as though Trank is considering making unnecessary changes to beloved characters.

I'm not saying all should like it or they're racist, but it's been shown that this isn't just token casting and others are in contention. I have a huge problem with some of the more exaggerative posts because they're just as bad as others shouting racist at other posters for simply having a preference. Not to mention saying stupid crap like "let's make Black Panther White" or "Lets's make Sue Storm Rebel Wilson" does not forward the discussion in the positive direction and I'd argue that saying thing's like that basically borders on trolling.

A hefty Sue may be a problem for you, while a black Johnny may not coincide with my vision for the character. Both opinions are equally valid.

 

[Spider‑Man]

What a genius argument! Lets name names of actors who don't remotely share anything in common with certain characters as an excuse why another actor who in fact does is totally wrong because he's black!

Other than his age what doesn't Sutherland share in common with reed?

Other than her weight what doesn't Wilson share in common with sue?

If we describe what defines these characters as loosely as those in this thread want to define Johnny to make it ok to make him black, the same argument could be made for casting them. You just don't want to acknowledge that making torch black is just as big a change as weight or age because it defeats your argument.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Other than his age what doesn't Sutherland share in common with reed?

Other than her weight what doesn't Wilson share in common with sue?

If we describe what defines these characters as loosely as those in this thread want to define Johnny to make it ok to make him black, the same argument could be made for casting them. You just don't want to acknowledge that making torch black is just as big a change as weight or age because it defeats your argument.

A huge part of Sue is that she is considered to be a lesser scientist and team member because she is a beautiful sexy woman. Now that's not to say Rebel Wilson isn't a beautiful and cute girl.

But she's not the Hollywood ''standard'" of beauty and we know that..

That's a major change to Sue's character.

The Sutherland thing is just a dumb argument in general. Reed can be any age and essentially be what he needs to be as long as he's over the age of 18.

Nothing about this defeats JP's argument. If anything you continue to prove his point with your rebuttals.

 

[cronosred]

A huge part of Sue is that she is considered to be a lesser scientist and team member because she is a beautiful sexy woman. Now that's not to say Rebel Wilson isn't a beautiful and cute girl.

But she's not the Hollywood ''standard'" of beauty and we know that..

That's a major change to Sue's character.

So it's ok to change the color of a character that's been white for fifty years but it's not ok to change the weight of a character that's been thin for fifty years?

 

[Jennifer Walters]

So it's ok to change the color of a character that's been white for fifty years but it's not ok to change the weight of a character that's been thin for fifty years?

Not if being the thin and beautiful standard that we thrust upon women is a part of her character.

Guess what it's apart of Sue's character. It's a huge part of her early motivation in her field of science, as well as even being a member of the team.

Being white is not a part of literally anyone on the Fantastic Four's character or motivations.

 

[JP]

It has little to do with weight. Rebel is a loud and brass woman. Sue is not. I'm tired of this redicuous attempt at an argument.

MBJ is handsom, charismatic, funny, and just about the right age. He just happens to be black. On the other hand the only thing Rebel has in common with Sue is her blonde hair.

Sad that this is the best that some of you can do.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Rebel is a loud and brass woman. Sue is not.

This too.

 

[cronosred]

Not if being the thin and beautiful standard that we thrust upon women is a part of her character.

Guess what it's apart of Sue's character. It's a huge part of her early motivation in her field of science, as well as even being a member of the team.

Then this is the perfect opportunity to start changing the standard and give plus size actors their day.

 

[cronosred]

It has little to do with weight. Rebel is a loud and brass woman. Sue is not. I'm tired of this redicuous attempt at an argument.

MBJ is handsom, charismatic, funny, and just about the right age. He just happens to be black. On the other hand the only thing Rebel has in common with Sue is her blonde hair.

Sad that this is the best that some of you can do.

She's an actor who can play different characters if given the opportunity.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Then this is the perfect opportunity to start changing the standard and give plus size actors their day.

Hey. I like Rebel. Let's go for it. They break her out of her typecast then go for it.

 

[Project862006]

It has little to do with weight. Rebel is a loud and brass woman. Sue is not. I'm tired of this redicuous attempt at an argument.

MBJ is handsom, charismatic, funny, and just about the right age. He just happens to be black. On the other hand the only thing Rebel has in common with Sue is her blonde hair.

Sad that this is the best that some of you can do.

you are on a board where people were against amy adams for lois because she has red hair and preferred olivia wilde lol

 

[JP]

She's an actor who can play different characters if given the opportunity.

Ok.

I support it.

 

[JP]

you are on a board where people were against amy adams for lois because she has red hair and preferred olivia wilde lol

Don't forget Amy Adams is practically 40 wich is too ancient for Lois! That was a good one, too.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Don't forget Amy Adams is practically 40 wich is too ancient for Lois! That was a good one, too.

Or Anne Hathaway being too fat for Catwoman.

Or how Heath Ledger was nothing but a pretty boy who would ruin the Joker.

 

[Zarex]

Or Anne Hathaway being too fat for Catwoman.

Or how Heath Ledger was nothing but a pretty boy who would ruin the Joker.

And Dwayne Johnsoon is too "light" to play Luke Cage. They are all silly arguments - until the actor being considered for casting does not meet with your expectations for the character.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

The reason for The Rock not being Luke Cage should be he's a horrid actor. Not that he's ''too light."

And if there's one thing the Hype can teach you?

9 times out of 10? Fans don't know a single damn thing about what is best for a character.

 

[Zarex]

The reason for The Rock not being Luke Cage should be he's a horrid actor. Not that he's ''too light."

And if there's one thing the Hype can teach you?

9 times out of 10? Fans don't know a single damn thing about what is best for a character.

I strongly disagree - Johnson is a wildly charismatic performer who is a bankable box office star. A Luke Cage movie becomes decidedly less risky with Johnson in the lead.

 

[FVD]

Heck why can't Jordan still be Human Torch and another actor playing Storm?! I'm all for him being in the movie but why Storm?!

 

[jed]

I can understand the recent outcry over the Johnny Storm casting rumor.


Look at "DragonBall Evolution". They cast Justin Chatwin as Goku, Emmy Rossum as Bulma and James Marsters as Lord Piccolo. The movie flopped big time at the box office.

"The King of Fighters"....Sean Faris is Kyo Kusanagi, The movie flopped too.


Kristin Kreuk plays Chun Li in "Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun Li"....The movie flopped too.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

I can understand the recent outcry over the Johnny Storm casting rumor.


Look at "DragonBall Evolution". They cast Justin Chatwin as Goku, Emmy Rossum as Bulma and James Marsters as Lord Piccolo. The movie flopped big time at the box office.

"The King of Fighters"....Sean Faris is Kyo Kusanagi, The movie flopped too.


Kristin Kreuk plays Chun Li in "Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun Li"....The movie flopped too.

Chatwin, Faris, and Kreuk can't act and were on top of that all wrong for their roles.

Emmy Rossum and James Marsters while talented were just all wrong for their roles.

Plus the scripts for those movies were ****ing disasters.

Michael B. Jordan is a talented actor who embodies the role in just about every way and even played a slightly similar one in Chronicle already.

Of course we can't really know what the script for this movie is going to be like yet, but even if he did get the role and the script was bad? He'd be the least of the film's problems.

So bringing this up is an incredibly moot and irrelevant thing over all.

 

[Spider‑Man]

A huge part of Sue is that she is considered to be a lesser scientist and team member because she is a beautiful sexy woman. Now that's not to say Rebel Wilson isn't a beautiful and cute girl.

But she's not the Hollywood ''standard'" of beauty and we know that..

That's a major change to Sue's character.

The Sutherland thing is just a dumb argument in general. Reed can be any age and essentially be what he needs to be as long as he's over the age of 18.

Nothing about this defeats JP's argument. If anything you continue to prove his point with your rebuttals.

You only choose to see what you want, whatever supports your side of the issue. Johnny being black is at least as big a visual change (and character change as well - remember the whole 'history of suffering that automatically comes with being a member of a minority' that you so vehemently argued existed a while ago?) as making sue fat or reed old. It is a fact irregardless of your willingness to accept it.