Fant4stic "Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

[mkilban2]

It's fine that you have limited familiarity with the source material, but please don't call those of us who grew up reading the World's Greatest Comic Magazine "selfish" for being concerned about a casting change that would change the look of the squad. But at least you didn't call us racist.

And as to film adaptations that are "usually for the better" - which of the changes in the first two films put out by FOX do you consider an improvement over the source material? Lightning Doom? Cloud Galactus? The Victor/Reed/Sue love triangle? Board-Dependent Surfer? I hated them all, but I'm just a selfish die-hard.

I don't think race has anything to do with it personally, but maybe selfish wasn't the best word to use. But the point I'm trying to make is that everyone should try and have an open mind going into these things and not let the past cloud their judgements, these movies aren't the comic books, if people want the comic book stories they're always going to be there to go back to. It's a hard concept to accept, but the movies aren't being made for the comic book fan, they're being made to allow a new generation to enjoy those characters in similar stories to the comics told in new ways.

to your other point no, none of those worked within the context of the movies, which I clearly stated in my original post is what I like to see when they do take chances and make changes (i.e. Iron Man 3). They took chances with those things you mentioned and they fell flat for the most part, but that's not to say they shouldn't keep trying to change things and keep them fresh. If people got exact comic book movies right off the pages of a comic book arc they would then complain that the movies are too stale and boring and just re-hashing the exact stories they've been reading for 50 years.

Do you think it's selfish that they've remade Dracula eleventy-seven times but haven't cast a black man in the lead?

How about James Bond?

Sherlock Holmes?

Tarzan?

Frankenstein?

Norman Bates?

Annie?

Inspector Clouseau?

Kirk and Spock?

Luke Skywalker? Han Solo?

Just curious.

If I'm not mistaken Dracula was based on a real person right? So I don't understand the point of a race change there.

I've seen rumors of black bonds in the future, Idris Elba was the name I believe I saw thrown around, which I would be all for.

Tarzan could easily be replaced on skin color

an Annie movie is in the works with a black cast

Kirk and Spock and Star Wars are a little silly to add since it's been the same people playing those characters in almost all appearances.

Idk what Norman Bates or Inspector Clouseau are. (Physco and Pink Panther maybe.. but I've never seen those so I can't comment)

Just because something has been done in the past the same way over and over doesn't mean it can't be altered and changed *and* work in the future.

 

[Spider - Man]

Does Blacula count???

Yes, if you want an example of why you shouldn't make a traditionally white character black.

 

[C. Lee]

Does Blacula count???

Nope. The character in the movie called "Blacula" was an African prince who was bitten and changed into a vampire by Dracula. They did not change the European white man Dracula into a black man living in Transylvania named Dracula.

 

[mkilban2]

I guess to compare it to something I'm pretty familiar with is the new Ninja Turtles movie coming out. I grew up on everything TMNT, the cartoon show, the 3 movies, the Live on Stage VHS I had and watched that stuff like everyday. Now they're making the new movie and doing what seems to be a good amount of changes and many of the people I've seen are freaking out about it. I just don't understand that, no one knows what the final product will be or how it's going to look.

My mindset is to wait and see what happens in the finished product, then hash out any judgement I have. It's the same stance I'm taking with this FF - Johnny Storm stuff, if they want to cast a non-white actor that's great and if he's who they think will provide the best Johnny Storm and he convices me of that as well when I'm watching the movie then awesome, if he sucks then yeah it was a bad move and you can throw it on the pile of galactus cloud and origami deadpool. But who's to say that it's the wrong thing for the character or movie just because it's different from the comics and who's to say those things before we see the character itself or movie in its entirety?

 

[Marvel Spider]

And you know this how?

Don't be a *****e please. No you do not know. You are not affiliated with the film, the studio, the actor or any any peripheral related thing at all.

You're stating a hunched opinion as a fact to sound like a bad-ass, which is not bad-ass at all.

Just say you've got a strong hunch he will be the actor chosen and save the dramatics.

To be fair, he DID bring up Michael B. Jordan weeks before he was rumored to be in the running. Many saw it as a very out of left field suggestion, and look where we are now. I think this guy might know some things that we don't.

 

[Paradox1]

Do you think it's selfish that they've remade Dracula eleventy-seven times but haven't cast a black man in the lead?

How aout James bBond?

Sherlock Holmes?

Tarzan?

Frankenstein?

Norman Bates?

Annie?

Inspector Clouseau?

Kirk and Spock?

Luke Skywalker? Han Solo?

Just curious.

How about James Bond? will be black nothing in his character needs him to be white he only needs to be a playboy and from the UK

Sherlock Holmes? There is a historical context involved but in some modern take why not

Tarzan?- being black in Africa doesn't make you that different and part of what makes up his character is that even though at first glance he shouldn't belong his heart and soul is to the African jungles he grew up in.

Frankenstein? Frankenstein the man? or the monster? the monster could be anything he's a collection of dead bodies

Norman Bates? Nothing in his character prevents that

Annie? she's a orphan that is the most important thing about her, her being portrayed as white isn't a big concern. She literally could be any color and it wouldn't change story one bit.

Inspector Clouseau? he could be black there a black people who are french

Kirk and Spock? Star Trek has enough black people in lead roles throughout their entire run and has been one of the most diversified franchises in movies and tv. Besides Spock is a Vulcan and I've seen Black Vulcans too

Luke Skywalker? Han Solo?

 

[bubbadoom]

Inspector Clouseau? he could be black there a black people who are french

would they have to call it "the Black Panther"...?

 

[Paradox1]

Inspector Clouseau isn't the thief known as the Pink Panther he's the cop trying to catch him.

 

[mercureyx]

To be fair, he DID bring up Michael B. Jordan weeks before he was rumored to be in the running. Many saw it as a very out of left field suggestion, and look where we are now. I think this guy might know some things that we don't.

http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=37601

 

[mkilban2]

.edit

 

[Spider - Man]

How about James Bond? will be black nothing in his character needs him to be white he only needs to be a playboy and from the UK

Sherlock Holmes? There is a historical context involved but in some modern take why not

Tarzan?- being black in Africa doesn't make you that different and part of what makes up his character is that even though at first glance he shouldn't belong his heart and soul is to the African jungles he grew up in.

Frankenstein? Frankenstein the man? or the monster? the monster could be anything he's a collection of dead bodies

Norman Bates? Nothing in his character prevents that

Annie? she's a orphan that is the most important thing about her, her being portrayed as white isn't a big concern. She literally could be any color and it wouldn't change story one bit.

Inspector Clouseau? he could be black there a black people who are french

Kirk and Spock? Star Trek has enough black people in lead roles throughout their entire run and has been one of the most diversified franchises in movies and tv. Besides Spock is a Vulcan and I've seen Black Vulcans too

Luke Skywalker? Han Solo?

You both missed the point: he said it was selfish to not make characters, who had been portrayed as white for years, black. I merely asked if it was selfish that none of these had yet been portrayed as black though they've been adapted many times.

 

[Paradox1]

http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=37601

This sounds like good news like he knows a secret the rest of us are not privileged to quite yet.

and that poster said he misspoke and selfish was not the word he should use.

 

[mkilban2]

You both missed the point: he said it was selfish to not make characters, who had been portrayed as white for years, black. I merely asked if it was selfish that none of these had yet been portrayed as black though they've been adapted many times.

No, I was saying it was selfish to think that just because something has been the same for the last 50 years in some form of media doesn't mean that it couldn't be changed, and then having the mindset that if it possibly is being changed that it's the absolute wrong move just for the fact that it is changing is a selfish way to look at it, no matter if the character was going from black to white or any race to any race. (I've also said I don't know if selfish is the perfect word to use. Maybe arrogant or very biased would be better worded)

And I'm not trying to advocate change just for the sake of change. I'm saying I'm okay with change if A.) it works well or better within the movie itself than the original, or B.) if that actor who wins the role is the outright best for the part (which seems to be the case for this instance)

Also, I didn't mean to come to a board I haven't posted on ever and try and push my views into everyone else's faces if that's what people were feeling, so sorry if that's the case. Just found this to be a curious and interesting topic after hearing about it and wanted to post my feelings on it and have some discussion.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I just do. You don't have to believe me. IF the movie gets made, Michael B. Jordan will be the Human Torch. Period.

You'll see. Eventually...

I'll take it you feel it will happen eventually
No one knows the future

If I'm not mistaken Dracula was based on a real person right? So I don't understand the point of a race change there.

Based, he's a fictionalized version of someone
I think enough characters are based on or strongly inspired by real people, they're still fictional, don't really have an issue with racial change

 

[mercureyx]

It's not my opinion. It's a fact.

I understand the skepticism. I'm only posting the information because the reboot deserves a chance and should be supported by the fans. Lots of very talented and creative people are working their asses off to make it the most amazing comic book film ever.

That being said, I'm 100% confident that Michael B. Jordan has ALREADY BEEN CAST as the Human Torch. I guess calling that WEEKS before anyone even thought it could be a possibility, doesn't lend me ANY sort of credibility -- which is fine.

Take a look at some of my other posts in this forum and you'll have an idea of the direction the reboot is taking.

You don't have to believe me, but I'd start warming up to the idea of this being a strong-but-elevated ADAPTATION of the comics... one that centers around a YOUNGER cast.

 

[Kelly]

It's not my opinion. It's a fact.

I understand the skepticism. I'm only posting the information because the reboot deserves a chance and should be supported by the fans. Lots of very talented and creative people are working their asses off to make it the most amazing comic book film ever.

That being said, I'm 100% confident that Michael B. Jordan has ALREADY BEEN CAST as the Human Torch. I guess calling that WEEKS before anyone even thought it could be a possibility, doesn't lend me ANY sort of credibility -- which is fine.

Take a look at some of my other posts in this forum and you'll have an idea of the direction the reboot is taking.

You don't have to believe me, but I'd start warming up to the idea of this being a strong-but-elevated ADAPTATION of the comics... one that centers around a YOUNGER cast.

And again, that is all fine and good....but you haven't answered the question.

How do you know this?

If you can't say why we should take it all as fact, well....be ready for the skepticism. : )

 

[Paradox1]

Maybe he's right maybe he isn't but he's been on the money so far, so I can't doubt it.

 

[def28]

I'd start warming up to the idea of this being a strong-but-elevated ADAPTATION of the comics... one that centers around a YOUNGER cast.

With Millar at Fox and Vaughn being buddy buddy with him plus a producer on the flick, I'd assume we are getting Ultimate FF.

 

[Kelly]

With Millar at Fox and Vaughn being buddy buddy with him plus a producer on the flick, I'd assume we are getting Ultimate FF.

That is pretty much a given at this point...just in the names that have been thrown around for Sue and Johnny, even if they don't end up the people at the end of the day, the fact that they are being looked at tells us its a younger version...so UFF.

 

[mercureyx]

And again, that is all fine and good....but you haven't answered the question.

How do you know this?

If you can't say why we should take it all as fact, well....be ready for the skepticism. : )

What difference does it make how I know? All that matters is whether or not the information is correct. So far, it has been.

Surely you guys don't think I just got lucky calling this? Not a single person on the internet ever mentioned Michael B. Jordan in connection with Fantastic Four -- except me.

More will come out in the ensuing months and people will look back to see that I was right. Some people are just going to look very foolish in hindsight. But, it's all good.

And, for the record, I'm okay with the skepticism and name calling -- it comes with the territory.

 

[Kelly]

What difference does it make how I know? All that matters is whether or not the information is correct. So far, it has been.

Surely you guys don't think I just got lucky calling this? Not a single person on the internet ever mentioned Michael B. Jordan in connection with Fantastic Four -- except me.

More will come out in the ensuing months and people will look back to see that I was right. Some people are just going to look very foolish in hindsight. But, it's all good.

And, for the record, I'm okay with the skepticism and name calling -- it comes with the territory.

It really doesn't matter, but when posters throw things around, and put out there that they "know for a fact..." usually on these boards, that will grab you some skepticism. I don't know about the namecalling...that's not cool.

 

[def28]

That is pretty much a given at this point...just in the names that have been thrown around for Sue and Johnny, even if they don't end up the people at the end of the day, the fact that they are being looked at tells us its a younger version...so UFF.

Hopefully they mix it up with some 616. Would prefer not to see another lame version of Galactus in the future.

 

[Kelly]

I can certainly understand that...I haven't been really thrilled with the villains in the UFF...

For me, a nice mix would be the family dynamics of the MK comics, the look of the UFF, and the villains of 616.

 

[metaphysician]

Ugh. I'm sorry, but Ultimate FF will always be, to me, "the line where Reed Richards eventually turned into the world's biggest supervillain."

 

[Zarex]

What difference does it make how I know? All that matters is whether or not the information is correct. So far, it has been.

Surely you guys don't think I just got lucky calling this? Not a single person on the internet ever mentioned Michael B. Jordan in connection with Fantastic Four -- except me.

More will come out in the ensuing months and people will look back to see that I was right. Some people are just going to look very foolish in hindsight. But, it's all good.

And, for the record, I'm okay with the skepticism and name calling -- it comes with the territory.

In your original post you mentioned Michael B. Jordan as a potential candidate to play the Human Torch, presumably based on his prior work with Trank. You then quoted a Hollywood Reporter article as proof that the rebooted team would closely resemble the Ultimate FF. Are you now asking us to believe you have close ties to the production ("What difference does it make how I know?"), though the "insider information" you provided looks to be, at best, solid guesses?