"Flame On!" The Human Torch Thread

[bubbadoom]

Inspector Clouseau isn't the thief known as the Pink Panther he's the cop trying to catch him.

Actually, wasn't the diamond David Niven is stealing called "the Pink Panther"...

 

[bubbadoom]

That is pretty much a given at this point...just in the names that have been thrown around for Sue and Johnny, even if they don't end up the people at the end of the day, the fact that they are being looked at tells us its a younger version...so UFF.

Jordan is three years older than Evans was so how is this going older.

Fox's first attempt at the FF had a lot of "Ultimate" FF in it - too much for me - I was hoping they would have learned their lesson from that,...

 

[Kelly]

Jordan is three years older than Evans was so how is this going older.

Fox's first attempt at the FF had a lot of "Ultimate" FF in it - too much for me - I was hoping they would have learned their lesson from that,...

I don't look at a number, and no one else should either in the movies or in life.

I look at the look of the person, and Jordan has a much more youthful look, as does the other guy that is supposedly on the short list.

The young woman that was mentioned also has a much more youthful look than Alba...

 

[Spider - Man]

What difference does it make how I know? All that matters is whether or not the information is correct. So far, it has been.

Surely you guys don't think I just got lucky calling this? Not a single person on the internet ever mentioned Michael B. Jordan in connection with Fantastic Four -- except me.

More will come out in the ensuing months and people will look back to see that I was right. Some people are just going to look very foolish in hindsight. But, it's all good.

And, for the record, I'm okay with the skepticism and name calling -- it comes with the territory.

Ah, so you're a politician!

 

[Paradox1]

Ugh. I'm sorry, but Ultimate FF will always be, to me, "the line where Reed Richards eventually turned into the world's biggest supervillain."

616 isn't perfect either Reed is woman beater in that one.

Actually, wasn't the diamond David Niven is stealing called "the Pink Panther"...

Might be right I haven't watched Pink Panther since the 80's

 

[Spider - Man]

No, I was saying it was selfish to think that just because something has been the same for the last 50 years in some form of media doesn't mean that it couldn't be changed, and then having the mindset that if it possibly is being changed that it's the absolute wrong move just for the fact that it is changing is a selfish way to look at it, no matter if the character was going from black to white or any race to any race. (I've also said I don't know if selfish is the perfect word to use. Maybe arrogant or very biased would be better worded)

And I think the ones who actually think that exact thing are in the extreme minority. And are you saying that the reasons people have for wanting the change are un-biased? Every position is biased based on each person's personal preference and there's nothing wrong with that.

And I'm not trying to advocate change just for the sake of change. I'm saying I'm okay with change if A.) it works well or better within the movie itself than the original,

So making Johnny black will work better within the movie itself...no rational reason...it will just work better that way? ok. Sounds like 'change for the sake of change' to me.

or B.) if that actor who wins the role is the outright best for the part (which seems to be the case for this instance)

Based on what? I'd say more people would argue against him being best for the part simply based on the fact that he looks nothing like Johnny.

Also, I didn't mean to come to a board I haven't posted on ever and try and push my views into everyone else's faces if that's what people were feeling, so sorry if that's the case. Just found this to be a curious and interesting topic after hearing about it and wanted to post my feelings on it and have some discussion.

We all push our views. That is what we do.

 

[mkilban2]

And I think the ones who actually think that exact thing are in the extreme minority. And are you saying that the reasons people have for wanting the change are un-biased? Every position is biased based on each person's personal preference and there's nothing wrong with that.

If you asked 100 random people, how do you feel about making Johnny Storm black in the new Fantastic Four movie I'm willing to say that 80% would be for for it or indifferent or not even know who Johnny Storm is, and 20% would be upset of the race change. But I'm not even trying to argue for a race change, I'm saying that if this guy is the best actor and best personifies Johnny Storm then why should his skin color get in the way of a role?

So making Johnny black will work better within the movie itself...no rational reason...it will just work better that way? ok. Sounds like 'change for the sake of change' to me.

Based on what? I'd say more people would argue against him being best for the part simply based on the fact that he looks nothing like Johnny.

like I said I'm okay with change in one of two ways, if it makes the orginal content better and more relevant to the general audience for the movie (like IM3 did w/ Mandarin) not the case for this movie and nowhere did I say making Johnny a different race makes it a better movie so that's you putting words in my mouth and ignoring my point which is option 2 when the actor who wins the role is the outright best for the part. If MBJ has all the attributes and acting chops to show those characteristic on screen in the best way, then why shouldn't he get the role? You seem to be saying that you'd rather have someone who looked comic counterpart accurate rather than he be able to bring the character to life in the most accurate way, which in this case just happens to be a black guy.

 

[Kelly]

Apparently only 10% of that 80% has voted on the front page poll....but that damn selfish 61%.

 

[mkilban2]

Apparently only 10% of that 80% has voted on the front page poll....but that damn selfish 61%.

like I said, random people. not the 100% of the people that are comic book fans and very familiar with the subject.

 

[Kelly]

like I said, random people. not the 100% of the people that are comic book fans and very familiar with the subject.

This site gets far more to its front page than just comic book fans....most of the people that post on the news items do not post on this forum or any forum on this site...MANY come from our sister sites.

 

[Spider - Man]

like I said, random people. not the 100% of the people that are comic book fans and very familiar with the subject.

Funny, a couple pages back you claim to 'not be a comic book reader' but somehow manage to know who Johnny Storm is and apparently more.

 

[Spider - Man]

If you asked 100 random people, how do you feel about making Johnny Storm black in the new Fantastic Four movie I'm willing to say that 80% would be for for it or indifferent or not even know who Johnny Storm is, and 20% would be upset of the race change. But I'm not even trying to argue for a race change, I'm saying that if this guy is the best actor and best personifies Johnny Storm then why should his skin color get in the way of a role?

like I said I'm okay with change in one of two ways, if it makes the orginal content better and more relevant to the general audience for the movie (like IM3 did w/ Mandarin) not the case for this movie and nowhere did I say making Johnny a different race makes it a better movie so that's you putting words in my mouth and ignoring my point which is option 2 when the actor who wins the role is the outright best for the part. If MBJ has all the attributes and acting chops to show those characteristic on screen in the best way, then why shouldn't he get the role? You seem to be saying that you'd rather have someone who looked comic counterpart accurate rather than he be able to bring the character to life in the most accurate way, which in this case just happens to be a black guy.

I'm sorry. I misread your post. I read it as there were 2 things and you thought they both applied in this case. I still think you're wrong about him being the best choice but as I have said repeatedly, that is a matter of personal preference. I personally do not think he is so head and shoulders in acting ability above any other actor who might look more the part in addition to being a good actor and having the other characteristics that make Johnny Johnny.

 

[Spideysays]

It's fine that you have limited familiarity with the source material, but please don't call those of us who grew up reading the World's Greatest Comic Magazine "selfish" for being concerned about a casting change that would change the look of the squad. But at least you didn't call us racist.

And as to film adaptations that are "usually for the better" - which of the changes in the first two films put out by FOX do you consider an improvement over the source material? Lightning Doom? Cloud Galactus? The Victor/Reed/Sue love triangle? Board-Dependent Surfer? I hated them all, but I'm just a selfish die-hard.

Exact and to the point! Great job!

 

[mkilban2]

Funny, a couple pages back you claim to 'not be a comic book reader' but somehow manage to know who Johnny Storm is and apparently more.

I've never owned or read a comic book, never had any interest in super hero movies until I saw Iron Man and learned about this big shared universe they were planning and got hooked. just by not reading comics doesn't mean I didn't know who the Fantastic Four were and since becoming interested in the Marvel Movie world I've become decently knowledgeable on Marvel stuff, or at least that things that interest me. I'm basically what Marvel is trying to do with the movies they make lol.. try to get those who were not interested before to enjoy the content that's been around for years in a new medium.

I'm a comic book character and superhero genre movie fan, I'm not trying to deny that. But I have no history of reading the stories over the past 40-50 years. I'm not attached to them I guess, and open for adaptations if they don't deviate from the source material too much and work well in film. Marvel of late has been doing that pretty well.

 

[mkilban2]

I'm sorry. I misread your post. I read it as there were 2 things and you thought they both applied in this case. I still think you're wrong about him being the best choice but as I have said repeatedly, that is a matter of personal preference. I personally do not think he is so head and shoulders in acting ability above any other actor who might look more the part in addition to being a good actor and having the other characteristics that make Johnny Johnny.

okay cool, glad to be on the same page.. yeah I don't honestly know if he's the best choice, I'm just going off what seems to be the case right now.

 

[bubbadoom]

616 isn't perfect either Reed is woman beater in that one.



Might be right I haven't watched Pink Panther since the 80's

When was this? I know Hank Pym was [not that I liked that either] but I do not recall Reed doing this...

 

[Kelly]

When was this? I know Hank Pym was [not that I liked that either] but I do not recall Reed doing this...

Reed slapped Sue when she was Malice...it was what woke her up so to speak. He did earlier in #222, but wasn't really a slap, not like the one in #281 when she was Malice.

He also slapped Franklin one time in What If? #30 where their unborn child was a monster.

 

[Project862006]

only thing i dislike is when people assume if mbj is cast he has to be adopted lol interracial couple is unheard of i guess

for example wentworth miller's father is african american

Spoiler

even female mma fighter ronda rousey who's mother is half black/half Venezuelan

Spoiler

 

[Spider-Aziz]

only thing i dislike is when people assume if mbj is cast he has to be adopted lol interracial couple is unheard of i guess

for example wentworth miller's father is african american

Spoiler

even female mma fighter ronda rousey who's mother is half black/half Venezuelan

Spoiler

Maybe Wintworth is adopted, or his father is adopted, or his father is adopted then he adopted him

 

[bubbadoom]

Reed slapped Sue when she was Malice...it was what woke her up so to speak. He did earlier in #222, but wasn't really a slap, not like the one in #281 when she was Malice.

He also slapped Franklin one time in What If? #30 where their unborn child was a monster.

Well that hardly qualifies him as a woman beater then, does it. It was an extreme measure to break the spell of the Psycho Man.

Do What If stories really count...?

 

[natey2k4]

"Flame off." If the Jordan casting is true, I'll be skipping this one. Absolutely horrendous idea.

Maybe they should buy the Blank Panther rights and cast Paul Walker as T'Challa ! And hell, let's make "The Thing" out of green stone to resemble "The Hulk!" Fantastic ideas all around, I could fit right in at Fox!

I'd have a lot less problem with the casting if they weren't going to be changing so much of the backstory but clearly they will to describe the whole Johnny/Sue thing.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

For me personally.....In the case of a big budget, franchise creating, major studio producing movie......I don't care if someone is the best most decorated actor in the world...if they don't look the part of a character as drawn for decades...they shouldn't be considered for the role. If you want to do a Broadway play, an independant film, or some kind of comedy...sure, cast it how you want.

One question. What makes it appropriate for Broadway, an independent film, or a comedy but not a full on wide release movie? They're all translations of the source material, and do not need to be confined to be a direct adaptation.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

One question. What makes it appropriate for Broadway, an independent film, or a comedy but not a full on wide release movie? They're all translations of the source material, and do not need to be confined to be a direct adaptation.

Bingo. We have a winner.

It's just a reach around validation to cover up ''I don't want this actor and not because he's not talented, not because he doesn't fit the character, but because he isn't white like Johnny is in the comics."

So why is it appropriate else where to cast racially blind and such in other adaptions but not in this case?

Truthful Answer:

There's no difference and it's an excuse.

 

[Human Torch]

A Fantastic Four Purist's Lament:

First the race changers came for Sue Storm,and I said "Jessica Alba's hot,and she's going to wear blue contacts and have blonde hair....alright."

Then,the race changers came for Alicia Masters and I said "Well,she's a secondary character.....it's not too big a deal,right?"

Then,the race changers came for Johnny Storm....

And **** got real fast.

 

[Hellion]

I don't mind the casting...if true. I think its more, how will they do the rest of the FF for me.