"Flash and Substance" Talkback/Discussion

[Hush]

Dead Reckoning is the next ep if they follow British Scheduling.(SP?) So yeah i figure Dead Reckoning is next.

 

[Red]

Yep, Dead Reckoning's next.

 

[TRUE]

This episode was pretty good. 4/5 I like they way the writers chose to go a diffrent route.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

8/10

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Awesome episode and extremely funny.

I'm not a comic follower at all, so it was nice to see what kind of hero Flash is within the context of his own mythos. And the villains, especially The Trickster, were hilarious. Both the animation and music were smooth, and the story was fun and entertaining. The characterization of Flash and his world is what this episode was all about, and the people behind the helm of this episode did a great job.

 

[celldog]

It was cool contrasting the two grumbiest bittermen in the JLU with the Flash. They just could not relate to how the city just loved this guy. Funny.......

 

[TheGrayGhost]

It was cool contrasting the two grumbiest bittermen in the JLU with the Flash. They just could not relate to how the city just loved this guy. Funny.......

I am not too sure about Orion, but I can tell you that Batman isn't "grumpy." He is a dark character, to be sure, but he isn't "grumpy." And he isn't necessarily bitter either; Batman still feels pain and is haunted by the memory of his parents' death, but he isn't bitter. He is the ultimate in pro-active heroes next to Superman and is arguably more compassionate and caring than any other hero in the League.

Besides, in Flash and Substance, Batman is actually the only one of the two who understands Flash and his relationship with the people of Central City. If you re-watch the episode, you'll know what I mean.

As far as Orion goes, he probably doesn't know Flash well enough and doesn't quite understand his methodolgy because he comes from a war-torn world.

 

[Dread]

Blizzard in NYC shut down the Internet for me, hence the lateness of my wordy review. Bare with me.

After four months and with the UK already airing the entire season, and thus negating maybe an 8th of their audience to internet downloading, Cartoon Network finally decides to air the rest of JLU, with no fanfare and little advertising save for maybe an hour before broadcast. It is really mind boggling why, even if CN really wants to cancel the show to make way for something they just can't get enough of, inexpensive dubbed anime (they don't even DUB it, they just secure the airing rights for the companies, like Geonon, Funimation, or Viz Media, that DO), that they at least can't air episodes in a timely fashion until such has already happened overseas, and why they do everything in their power to keep non-Internat fanboys from seeing it legally. It is also irritating because JLU seems to be having more seasonal arcs for most episodes now, and 4 month gaps take a clog in that continuity. Plus, the show's rounding out the over 12 year run of the Timmverse and is easily the best DC cartoon on the airwaves. So why the disrespect? Perhaps CN is being run by none other than Grodd himself, finally seeing a way to do in his enemies. But I digress.

"Flash and Substance" was not part of the Legion storyarc, and was frankly the episode I have been waiting for, begging for, pleading for. An episode that gives us more on Flash's backstory, his secret identity, his universe. I mean, before JL, his lone appearence was "Speed Demons" on Superman's show, which hardly did much fleshing beyond what JL did in their first season for him. By the time JLU came around, Flash was the founding Leaguer who was fleshed the least, especially when he all but vanished for that first JLU season (aside for two silent cameos). The first few episodes of this last season have been enjoyable enough, but none of them really screamed, "THIS was worth continuing after last season, where JLU essentially peaked". And while I can't say "Flash and Substance" did that, either, it still was amung the most due and entertaining episodes thus far; way better than "Earth's Core" was with Warlord, at least (that episode was easily the worst JLU had had in 2 seasons).

The episode is simple and starts slow; the good thing about JLU is that it spends as much time on character interaction than it does on action. This effect has been hindered at little with the new half-hour format, but the writers seem to be getting their barings. Basically in this dive of a diner, several of Flash's rogues meet up to share battle stories (you can see The Top and Abaracadabara in the background, amung others). Mirror Master, Trickster, Capt. Cold, and then joined by Capt. Boomerang, fresh out of prison after apparently working off his "debt to society" with Task Force X. They're sharing stories about previous defeats from Flash and how much they despise him, all whilst bickering a bit with themselves (although they all share some contempt for the "odd rogue out" of their club, Trickster). The new FLASH MUSEUM is opening in honor of the hero, and the foursome vow to use that event as a way of doing away with their enemy once and for all. On the one hand, with their names, costumes, and dialogue, it is almost impossible to take these guys completely seriously, but I think that is the point. I mean can you REALLY take talking gorillas and men named things like "Devil-Ray" or "Mr. Freeze" completely seriously in the real world? The episode seeks to set out Flash's rogues as basically being men who are not after taking over the world, or even Central City (unlike, say, Joker's many attempts to gas all of Gotham or something) simply stealing money to pay bills, and eager for a little payback from Flash's humiliations.

And then is an unwelcome return; the return of spoiling the highlights of a 22 minute episode with the 30 second themesong. Why? Why do everything friggin' possible to kill any and all suspence for the show? I'm sure some people will say, "oh, highlights don't kill a show", but for me they can take some of the oomph out of it. I knew for months about Lexiac and while "Divided We Fall" and all that was still thrilling, I would have imagined if I was caught cold, it would have been moreso. Of course, internet spoilers are my fault; 30 second episode highlights within the opening credits are not.

The episode then continues giving us required fleshing of Wally West and the Flash, with nods to comics and past Flash TV and so on, the sort of thing that Flash has needed for a few seasons. We see Wally at work, at a crime lab for the CCPD, much as in the 90's CBS series Barry was a cop (his "uncle" would also be mentioned later). Wally is friendly and good at what he does. And when the day is over he eagerly goes into a closet and "beams" up to the Watchtower for his second career as the Flash. On duty at the moniters are Batman and Orion, the latter of which at first seemed to be present a la' drawing a random name out of the "guest star" hat, but he ended up working out better than expected. Orion brought with him an alien ignorance and unfamiliarity of human costums and understandings that even a lot of the JLU alien heroes lack these days. Superman was raised on Earth and acts more like an Earthling than a Kryptonian (which is why when he does act alien, such as trapping someone in the Phantom Zone, a place without a chance of redemption or reform, people are concerned). J'onn is empathic and has spent a lot of time with Flash. Hawkgirl's also been on Earth for five years and knows him well. It seemed to come down between Orion or Starman (Prince Gavyn), and Orion's voiced by the always-reliable Ron Perlman. Plus, it is good to see Orion doing something without it involving Darkseid or Apokolips for a change. He also provided someone who was more of a hardcase than Batman. Anyway, finding that all of the founding Leaguers are busy, Flash asks Batman to attend the museum opening; after some hesitancy, Batman seems to accept, a result that seems to disgust and surprise Orion (who finds Flash a bit of a buffoon, much like Big Barda did in "Ties that Bind"). However, does Batman really agree because he cares like an actual person about Flash, a peer, or because he has an alterior motive? I thought for the latter because, after all, it IS Batman, and I would be right. But there would be more to it than that. Flash gives a line that is along the lines of, "I never believed it when they said you were just a deranged longer", which was very amusing. Batman and the Flash have had an interesting working relationship, and I wonder that as a young hero in his mid 20's if Flash doesn't remind Batman of Grayson back before they had their "falling out" in some ways.

Next times a trip into Central City through the eyes and actions of the Flash, and it becomes clear that while during his adventures in the Justice League that the Flash seems like a small fish in a big ocean, in Central City, the opposite is true; he is a big fish in a small pond. A master of his domain, someone whose name adorns the highway sign into town (CENTRAL CITY, 5 MILES, HOME OF THE FLASH). And not only is he a beloved hero like Superman in Metropolis, he displays a sort of down-to-Earth intimacy with the everyday citizens as he races past them on foot, on bikes or in cars. He makes chitchat about jobs, health, even promises to paint someone's fence for them. The most Superman ever did was wave when people would cheer for him, despite all of his farm raisin'. Perhaps it is because while the Flash is plenty powerful, he is not so uber-powerful that he can fly above the masses; despite his speed, he is grounded on earth like everyone else. There is no mistrust, no intidation, either; the people love him. Flash is soon led into an abandoned discotech by the wails of a lost child, which ends up being the hologram/laser trap of Mirror Master. They exchange some words before getting on with the brawl, which Flash ultimately escapes by using his speed and the environment to his advantage. He soon gives a short speach to the media for FLASH APPRECIATION DAY, only to tell the masses to flee once a flock of boomerangs come soaring, which will explode upon solid impact. Flash manages to dispatch with the 'rangs with a twister manuver, but is blindsided by a large boomerang, courtesy of Capt. Boomerang. He vows to "kill Flash ugly" and wants him to "see it coming" by smashing him against a mountain, but Flash rips into the thing and crashes it into the streets, tearing his costume and leaving his pride a little hurt as he comes across Batman and Orion.

The rogues, meanwhile, continue to bicker amungst themselves a little as they plan their next moves. The always prudent Boomerang (remember "Task Force X" where he whined about keeping loose change he had in his wallet) complains about how his stunts cost money while Mirror Master's, which apparently are natural, are not and are thus cheaper. Capt. Cold bluntly suggests they quit the one-on-one and just jump Flash at the museum, which is agreed upon. The Trickster also suggests a garish trap involving fake vomit and metal spikes (later settling for "30 dozen eggs and a chainsaw"), which is met with dismissal from the others, who leave him behind.

The trio head into Flash's home, which is modest and the only sign of his fame is a cardboard model of his LIGHTSPEED power bar endorsement, which Orion accidently smashes. We also have another comic nod with Flash having a drawer full of rings that release another folded up version of his costume to wear. Batman also reveals why he agreed to come to Central City after all; Amanda Waller told him that Capt. Boomerang left Task Force X and has formed an alliance with three of Wally's enemies; all business, apparently. Also a good use of continuity; despite whatever stumbles I may say that the show has, JLU has maintained a flowing continuity better and better as it goes along, which is good because it makes every episode, even those rare disappointing ones, worth watching, because they will matter later. Flash isn't worried, though, something that frustrates Batman and Orion; they think he's simply not taking the threats seriously, as he does on the team at times. But no, Flash insists that he KNOWS his enemies, and even knows the run down diner where they all hang out. And sure enough, upon heading to said diner, they find it teaming with supervillian losers, who all promptly flee at the sight of the trio, except for Trickster, who is drowning his sorrows, obviously the odd rogue out of the quartet.

Batman disarms Trickster's "acidic booger gun" and Orion starts to put in the "scare" tactics, but Flash breaks them up and does something unexpected...he sits down and TALKS with Trickster. And why? Because he knows Trickster so well, he has that intimacy. Flash mentions Trickster's real name, informs him that he is off his medication, tells him slowly that he is in costume and not in the hospital now, like a caretaker for a mentally ill patient would (as a social worker in training, I know this, but it was obvious even if you weren't one), instead of an unreasonable villian. And it WORKS. The Trickster calms down, reveals the Rogues' plans, and agrees to go back to the hospital after his drink and after Flash promises to "play darts with him, the non-pointy kind". Orion can't understand why Flash would care so much about an enemy that he allows him to leave and seek rehab at his own pace, but Batman does.

Of course Batman does. Behind the brooding and Batarangs, Batman is not so unreasonable that he does not want his own rogues to find help in Arkham, overcome their demons and lead a normal life. He has tried at many times to seek rehabilitation for some of his enemies; he simply is skeptical that some of them will succeed. Examples include Two-Face obviously, but also Harley Quinn, the Ventriloquist, and even Catwoman. As Wayne he even offered Wesker a job, or bought Harley the dress she wanted after a misunderstanding led to a rampage through Gotham (with the mob and Vreeland's father, in a tank, after her). Even in "House and Garden" with Posion Ivy pretending to have reformed and found a stable life, at one point Batman WANTED to believe it, for HER sake. So naturally he can relate to the Flash seeking to reform his enemies, and having that intimacy. Heck, most of Batman's rogues are fixated on him for various reasons, same as Flash's. And surely he could see the relations in gimmicks between Capt. Cold and Mr. Freeze, at least, or that Trickster is simply a less-dangerous Joker. Speaking of Trickster, the design seemed based on Mark Hamill himself from the 90's Flash CBS show, and his performance easily stole the episode like it usually does; here he gave a less extreme voice than Hobgoblin, Joker, or Gargoyle, but one more closer to his own.

The FLASH MUSEUM opens, with Flash feverishly signing autographs for spectators and there being plenty of exhibits from both comic references and cartoon events. Comic stuff involves the helmet from Golden Age Flash Jay Garrick and models of some non-appearing rogues like Turtle Man. In-cartoon references include models of Weather Wizard and the other rogues as well as a picture of Flash racing Superman from "Speed Demons" and Grodd from "Brave and the Bold". Reporter Linda Park is prepping for an interview with the Flash, although it is very obvious that she is romantically interested in him; she stumbles on camera and her attempt to give Flash her number is met with ignorance as he routinely signs it. This is also simular to Lois Lane and Superman, only I see Linda as more down-to-earth and more likely to forgo the interview aspect that Lois would have focused on for a while and just toss the notepad away and get to kissing. Which is NOT to say she is a "****e" or so on; I do not support ridiculing female characters whose sexual urges are just as strong as male ones. I just wonder what Fire would say? Anyway, Batman and Orion are keeping watch outside, with Batman having removed every mirror from the museum so Mirror Master cannot sneak in. However, the one mirror he missed was Linda's makeup one, which MM and the other two rogues sneak in through, and attack Flash. To Flash's credit, he was doing well enough considering it was three on one, essentially being little more than occupied until Linda falls into Mirror Master's mirror, and he races in after her. While Mirror Master's powers are not explained, basically he can travel through mirrors via a "mirror dimension", and can also create holograms of himself. However, while Linda seemed glad to be rescued and carried by Flash, there were millions of mirrors and no clear way back to the museum. "Finding the right one could take years, even for you!"

Meanwhile, Orion and Batman take on the trio of villians, and despite their best attacks, they cannot gain the better of them as easily as Flash could have. Capt. Cold turned out to be the MVP, as he managed to freeze Orion and entrap him (considering that Orion is a Superman-class tanker, an explaination of how his guns differ from Mr. Freeze's would have helped explain how this was possible to any uninformed viewer), and even managed to ice Batman's legs to stop him. The rogues closing in, Batman does one of the unselfish team-manuvers that not only shows he is used to being on a team by now, but that he trusts the Flash to be a master of this domain. He fires a flare into one of the Mirror Master's mirrors, which leads the Flash back to the area. Capt. Cold states that taking out Batman will "up his rep forever", which seems to be a growing sentiment; seen not only in "The Man Who Killed Batman" but also in "Shadow of the Hawk" where EVERY ONE of the Extremists seemed to gun for Batman over the others. Flash manages to TKO Boomerang and free his allies; Batman shatters MM's mirror and traps him while Orion gets the boom on Cold. At the end, Linda is saddened that the museum is totalled, as it was Central City's biggest honor to him. But while normally the Flash is eager for respect and recognition for his actions with the League (see "Eclipsed" and "Ties That Bind"), at home he is more humble; he sees it as a good day because the bad guys got caught and no one was hurt. Simple. As it ends, Orion finally manages to relate to the Flash, seeing that he "plays the fool to hide a warrior's pain".

The episode did not have anything to do with the Legion storyline and thus could have been called "filler", but it was due filler. This episode really showcased the Flash's identity and world, and made him even more relatable to the viewer. In fact, out of most of the Leaguers, I say that the Flash is the closest to Spider-Man in some levels (at least before Spidey joined the New Avengers and lost all of his supporting cast), and when done properly could even be competition. We could easily imagine that when Flash is not on JLU, he is in Central City, keeping the town safe and being the city's #1 guy. This was easily Flash's best outing since "Divided We Fall", although he was the MVP in "I am Legion". And considering that in

Spoiler

INFINATE CRISIS was Wally's world seem to come to an end

, it was good to see it done well in animation. The Timmverse has done well to streamline their DCU characters into a vision that is simple, iconic, and accurate, and this episode is no exception. "Flash and Substance" was easily one of the best episodes of the first 5 this season so far. Unlike "Go!" from TEEN TITANS, this episode I was looking foward to since it was solicted and it actually delivered for me on almost every level.

 

[batnkevlar]

I liked this episode a lot... the Trickster/Flash scene was priceless... Orion was good... and maybe Barry's alive in the Timmverse... maybe, maybe, he gave up the mantle of the Flash, and instead became a scientist, until the day comes that he must put the suit back on and give hislife to save the universe...

 

[TheGrayGhost]

The first few episodes of this last season have been enjoyable enough, but none of them really screamed, "THIS was worth continuing after last season, where JLU essentially peaked". And while I can't say "Flash and Substance" did that, either, it still was amung the most due and entertaining episodes thus far; way better than "Earth's Core" was with Warlord, at least (that episode was easily the worst JLU had had in 2 seasons).

I still don't understand this type of reasoning; Initiation and the episodes that followed in Season 3 in no way matched up to Starcrossed, but the episodes were still very good and the show continued to grow and become better. With the logic you have, JL should have ended with Starcrossed.

While I do not wish to criticize your taste in episodes, I will say that Chaos at the Earth's Core is definitely NOT the worst episode of the last two seasons; I think you're forgetting Hawk and Dove, which is arguably the worst DCAU episode next to Christmas with The Joker. It was really bad. Granted, I've only seen Choas at the Earth's Core when it aired, but I do remember it to be a good episode. Does anyone else have any other opinions of the episode?

Sigh.

 

[Anubis]

I thought Choas at the earth's core was good. Not great but good. Plus I'm a fan of Warlord.

 

[Mister J]

It's kind of baffling how people want to compare these episodes. Episodes like Starcrossed and the few leading up to Divided We Fall were being building to a crescendo. That's the show at it's best. There's no way each episode can match that kind of intensity. I'm more concerned with whether or not the episodes are of quality. Sure there are better eps that you can point out, but as long as the show remains diverse and is up to snuff, I can deal. It's better than no JLU at all.

 

[Dread]

I still don't understand this type of reasoning; Initiation and the episodes that followed in Season 3 in no way matched up to Starcrossed, but the episodes were still very good and the show continued to grow and become better. With the logic you have, JL should have ended with Starcrossed.

While I do not wish to criticize your taste in episodes, I will say that Chaos at the Earth's Core is definitely NOT the worst episode of the last two seasons; I think you're forgetting Hawk and Dove, which is arguably the worst DCAU episode next to Christmas with The Joker. It was really bad. Granted, I've only seen Choas at the Earth's Core when it aired, but I do remember it to be a good episode. Does anyone else have any other opinions of the episode?

Sigh.

What I meant was that "To Another Shore" was the worst episode since the end of JLU Season two (or JL Season 3 or whatever you want to call it). I wasn't clear, though. Yes, I agree that "Hawk and Dove" was infinately worse. So was "This Little Piggy", save for a few amusing moments.

As for "Chaos at the Earth's Core", I wasn't a fan of Warlord or his world, and the "journey to the center of the Earth or the Savage Land that has warrior men and dinosaurs and usually ends up looking like a bootleg episode of HE-MAN even if it predated He-man" sort of episodes, that nearly every show had, and nearly every show does poorly. Y'know, much like "shrinking episodes" or "body swap" episodes, or "insert token kid who learns a lesson and nearly gets the hero killed 400 times" episodes. Yeah, the episode had time for Kara and Stargirl (the latter who just came off as being really annoying), and a great new STRIPES design and Legion outings and whatnot, but despite the action the episode just kind of bored me.

You missed a lot of my praises for the episode and JLU, though. I repeat, JLU at its worst is still better than many shows at their best.

As for my opinions on seasons, I feel it is best for shows to end with a BANG, and not a whimper. Many shows have a peak and then fail to surpass it if they continue, and many times the audience will recognize said peak and then wait to see if the show can possibly match it. Most shows fail, historically. Frankly the best ending of a comic cartoon show I can think of was probably X-MEN: EVOLUTION, followed by the 90's X-MEN and IRON MAN (talk about a show that improved from a sucky freshman season!).

TEEN TITANS, recently, ended on a large whimper, and I am hoping JLU does not repeat it. Seasons of Justice League/JLU, from Season One tend to go like this: mediocre, good, mediocre, good, and so far this season is mediocre. The first 5 episodes of season three overall were better than the first 5 of this season, save "Flash and Substance". Some people would like shows to continue indefinately, but I would rather a show know when it has run out of ideas and leave the stage while it still has an audience, rather then being booed off. JLU is a strange horse because there will always be obsessed fanboys who would love to see the show continue indefinately, even if WB limitations require the only characters to be used are Booster Gold, Vixen, and Ambush Bug. "Epilogue" and the last season was masterfully done by bringing in threads from years ago and bringing them to a climax and epilogue. It will be hard to top it.

The Legion subplot so far is pretty good, although it does essentially boil down to a better "Superfriends": Legion plans to steal something for some dastardly plot, League stops them, Legion leaders grumble about it, insert credits, repeat. Just because JLU manages to take standard formula and usually do very well with it does not negate it from being standard formula. The CAMDUS arc has us all guessing. This arc so far is not nearly as climatic so far.

JLU's still good. I just think it's peak was last season. There can still be great episodes, as the last two episodes "Flash" and "To Another Shore" and so on showed. And I really don't want to overshadow the fact that I did like "Flash and Substance" a lot, and the Timmverse in general.

And yeah, I was one of those people who felt the shift to JLU was a poor one and that the peak of the show was STARCROSSED until the Camdus arc was in full swing last season. I'll admit I was wrong then. But normally it takes JLU two seasons to outdo itself and the show doesn't have that long. But in reality if a show ends, I like a finale that is a satisfying ending, and that usually comes with bangs. Plotthreads resolved and all that, but of course does leave room for those pesky DTV's.

I do get irritated when someone finds the ONE negative thing or two I say within about 1,000 words of positive text and then makes it seem like I'm a hater. Am I hardest on JLU than I am with some other shows? Probably. That is the price of being successful for so long, one's expectations increase, maybe at times unrealistically. Of course, the flaw in that kind of thinking is that you almost reward crappier writers who induce low expectations that are easy to surpass, but I didn't invent that kind of logic. I just admit I have it.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

What a centric point of view, Mister J. I respect that.

But how do you feel about Season 5 thus far?

 

[Mister J]

What a centric point of view, Mister J. I respect that.

But how do you feel about Season 5 thus far?

Honestly, I'm just happy it's on.

From a critical eye, Season 5 hasn't been anything special. I imagine they're just laying groundwork (which is usually boring). It's hasn't been bad, mind you. The eps this far seem somewhat disjointed and individual. There isn't anything tying them together. They're good stand-alones, but I guess I still have a fondness for the way Season 4 came together; I'm waiting for the tie-ins.

Flash and Substance was good because it builds on a part of Flash's character that we don't get to see. I'm not disappointed by any means. I just know what the show is capable of and giving its uncertain status, I'm looking for it to go out firing on all cylinders. There's plenty of time left though and I think I'll Season 5 will lead to something great.

 

[Dread]

Honestly, I'm just happy it's on.

From a critical eye, Season 5 hasn't been anything special. I imagine they're just laying groundwork (which is usually boring). It's hasn't been bad, mind you. The eps this far seem somewhat disjointed and individual. There isn't anything tying them together. They're good stand-alones, but I guess I still have a fondness for the way Season 4 came together; I'm waiting for the tie-ins.

Flash and Substance was good because it builds on a part of Flash's character that we don't get to see. I'm not disappointed by any means. I just know what the show is capable of and giving its uncertain status, I'm looking for it to go out firing on all cylinders. There's plenty of time left though and I think I'll Season 5 will lead to something great.

I keep losing 80% of my posts every time I edit for some reason. I lost 80% of my "Flash" review above and that is why you all think I hate JLU more than I hate anything else right now. And I don't think I have the heart to retype over two hours worth of typing. People beg for my long reviews but they really don't know how much time they take, and the stress I go through when I lose them. I hope everyone is happy.

But, to be brief, I agree with your sentiments here. The only thing that would be worse than no JLU to me would be a JLU that was only a shell of itself by being lousey.

 

[Dread]

What The God Damned Hell!? I Edit Posts And They Keep Getting Chopped In Half!? Every time I edit a post tonight and reload, SHH loses half of it.

I COULD waste another few hours of my life retyping what I have lost on that "Flash and Substance" review, which was mostly positive by the way, but why? No one reads editted posts. No one will read it. No one will care.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

I do get irritated when someone finds the ONE negative thing or two I say within about 1,000 words of positive text and then makes it seem like I'm a hater.

No, I read your entire review and found it to be very informative and positive. I do not agree with some of your analysis of Flash and Substance, but I can recognize that it is your interpretation and respect your opinion. But when you say that the "worst episodes of JLU are still better than most animated shows," you are giving quite a back-handed complement to Season 5. And it makes me even more skeptical and some-what angered when I have viewed the same episodes and consider them to actually be good.

Whether or not these episodes match-up to previous episodes in Season 4 is a different story. I'm only stating that the episodes of Season 5 are very good and that they certainly reflect the ability of JLU to continue on for several more seasons. There are still many, many stories that are worth telling.

And believe it or not, the Cadmus story-arc can be topped. This season may not have the ability to do so, but it certainly doesn't take away the quality of the season.

What I meant was that "To Another Shore" was the worst episode since the end of JLU Season two (or JL Season 3 or whatever you want to call it).

Well, I don't agree with this at all, and I'm quite surprised to see that you feel this way. I found the episode to be quite interesting and touching, especially with the character development of J'onn Jon'z.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

EDIT: And by the way, this isn't a personal attack on you at all. I highly value your input. I just want to present another side to the opinion.

 

[Dread]

No, I read your entire review and found it to be very informative and positive. I do not agree with some of your analysis of Flash and Substance, but I can recognize that it is your interpretation and respect your opinion. But when you say that the "worst episodes of JLU are still better than most animated shows," you are giving quite a back-handed complement to Season 5. And it makes me even more skeptical and some-what angered when I have viewed the same episodes and consider them to actually be good.

Whether or not these episodes match-up to previous episodes in Season 4 is a different story. I'm only stating that the episodes of Season 5 are very good and that they certainly reflect the ability of JLU to continue on for several more seasons. There are still many, many stories that are worth telling.

And believe it or not, the Cadmus story-arc can be topped. This season may not have the ability to do so, but it certainly doesn't take away the quality of the season.



Well, I don't agree with this at all, and I'm quite surprised to see that you feel this way. I found the episode to be quite interesting and touching, especially with the character development of J'onn Jon'z.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

EDIT: And by the way, this isn't a personal attack on you at all. I highly value your input. I just want to present another side to the opinion.

I just lost that entire "Flash and Substance" review, but I won't retype it because it would take too long and no one but me would give a damn.

I didn't mean "To Another Shore" as a bad episode, I meant "Center of the Earth's Core", where they met Warlord, as the worst since Season 3 began for me.

See, this is the pressure I am under. Whenever I make one mistake, one flaw, one omission, some wise arse hops on it and uses it to dismiss everything and anything that I say, all the time. And when I have editted a few times, some computer errors ends up eating some of my posts, as it did for two of them (I retyped one). I just can't win today. I don't hop on people's mistakes as ravenously as people hop on mine. It gets damned tiresome.

 

[Anubis]

Yeah, whys everybody always hatin on Dread?

 

[TheGrayGhost]

I just lost that entire "Flash and Substance" review, but I won't retype it because it would take too long and no one but me would give a damn.

I'd read it.

I didn't mean "To Another Shore" as a bad episode, I meant "Center of the Earth's Core", where they met Warlord, as the worst since Season 3 began for me.

I don't quite understand. First you said Chaos at the Earth's Core, then you said To Another Shore, and now you say Chaos at the Earth's Core again. If you are making mistakes in your typing, I understand. Either way, though, I still feel both episodes were of good quality. Whether or not they match-up to Season 4 is another issue.

See, this is the pressure I am under. Whenever I make one mistake, one flaw, one omission, some wise arse hops on it and uses it to dismiss everything and anything that I say, all the time. And when I have editted a few times, some computer errors ends up eating some of my posts, as it did for two of them (I retyped one). I just can't win today. I don't hop on people's mistakes as ravenously as people hop on mine. It gets damned tiresome.

Really? Am I the "wise arse?" Because I think I am being pretty fair to you. I haven't attacked you at all. I'm only encouraging discussion.

And exactly what pressure are you under? I just don't see it.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Yeah, whys everybody always hatin on Dread?

Are you being sarcastic? Because I don't have a long history on this board, and I don't know whether or not Dread is subject to much scrutiny.

But all and all, I think I am being pretty fair. I'm not attacking him or her, I only have a differing point of view, and I want to get that across.

 

[Dread]

Yeah, it is my typing error. "To Another Shore" and "Chaos at The Earth's Core" sound alike at the end, and one is shorter, so that is why I keep making the error. I liked "Shore" a lot. "Core" sort of bored me.

Sorry for all the venting. I just got in a really terrible mood to see 80% of a review I typed over the course of a few hours and planned for a day during a blizzard get eaten up because I editted one little thing. I'm human and sometimes that means I get emotional, and can become a jerk.

Unfortunately, people who admit their mistakes and apologize for them don't get the sort of free passes that headstrong, unapologetic people get.

 

[TheGrayGhost]

Yeah, it is my typing error. "To Another Shore" and "Chaos at The Earth's Core" sound alike at the end, and one is shorter, so that is why I keep making the error. I liked "Shore" a lot. "Core" sort of bored me.

I'm glad we got that cleared up. I know your stance now. And you know mine. Hopefully.

Sorry for all the venting. I just got in a really terrible mood to see 80% of a review I typed over the course of a few hours and planned for a day during a blizzard get eaten up because I editted one little thing. I'm human and sometimes that means I get emotional, and can become a jerk.

I don't think you were being a jerk, I just got a little confused is all. And editing problems have also been a problem for me in the past. I totally understand.

Unfortunately, people who admit their mistakes and apologize for them don't get the sort of free passes that headstrong, unapologetic people get.

I'm not too keen on what you are referring to, since neither I or anyone else has flamed you. It's all discussion.

 

[Anubis]

Are you being sarcastic? Because I don't have a long history on this board, and I don't know whether or not Dread is subject to much scrutiny.

But all and all, I think I am being pretty fair. I'm not attacking him or her, I only have a differing point of view, and I want to get that across.

I....I was just trying to be funny.



Dreads known for his long and involved reviews of things. They're usually great reads. I recall some good ones from way back in the days of the X-Men Evolution Forum. Anyway, if my little attmpt at humor offended you, sorry. Just playfully throwing gas on the fire.