Flight 93 - What really happened?

[ShadowBoxing]

Hani Hanjour
quote from chief instructor
Hanjour obtained a commercial pilots license in 1999 and according to the chief instructor, "Despite Hanjour's poor reviews, he did have some ability as a pilot, "There's no doubt in my mind that once that [hijacked jet] got going, he could have pointed that plane at a building and hit it," he said.

rescue personel
[quote]"I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"[/quote]

As for eyewitness accounts only two conflicted. One said they saw what they thought was a small plane the other report said "sounded like a missile" so in other words...was not quoted as saying anything as such...whereas I presented 20+ eyewitness accounts, several from the highway itself.

Flight 93

"It's not unusual for an engine to move or tumble across the ground," says Michael K. Hynes, an airline accident expert who investigated the crash of TWA Flight 800 out of New York City in 1996. "When you have very high velocities, 500 mph or more," Hynes says, "you are talking about 700 to 800 ft. per second. For something to hit the ground with that kind of energy, it would only take a few seconds to bounce up and travel 300 yards."

For a fall at that height as concured by physics of freefall
"In freefall for 4.5 minutes at speeds up to 714 mph and temperatures as low as -94 degrees Fahrenheit, Kittinger opened his parachute at 18,000 feet. In addition to the altitude record"

average commercial airline jet height 26,000 feet

Commericial Jets are designed to fly at approx = 290 mph.

Impact speeds vs distance of passengers/objects thrown for automobiles

Half of these accidents occurred at street speeds, half at highway speeds. In cases where the point of impact and distance to point of rest of the body was known, this distance averaged 80.8 feet for automobiles and 82.3' for pickups and vans. There was, however, a wide range: 6-355' for cars and 15-207' for vans and pickups.

So at 35-60 mph bodies can be thrown as far as 355 feet...all of the sudden that 8 miles and 800 feet doesn't seem so unbelievable

Crater estimated officially at =30 feet deep...40 feet wide
The soil at the point of impact was soft and contained no rocks. ... Impact forces formed a crater that was 30 feet across its top from east to west and 40 feet from north to south; it was 12 feet deep. Most of that portion of the aircraft which struck the ground forming this crater disintegrated and was buried within it. ... Portions of the vertical tail were imbedded in the west rim of the crater with the crumpled upper end of the rudder protruding from the ground. ... The impact explosion hurled small pieces of wreckage (stickdog says: note that there is no mention of that this wreckage was metal) in all directions from the crater, the greatest distance being approximately 1,500 feet to the east and south-east. ...

"Upon removal of the wreckage from the crater it was apparent that the fuselage with its tail, most of the left wing, and the No. 2 powerplant had contacted the ground in an almost vertical nose-down position. All structure removed from the crater was found to be severely fragmented from ground impact. ...

"The excavation of the crater continued to a DEPTH OF 31 FEET until there was no further evidence of any structure remaining in either the sidewalls of the bottom."

Flight 93 phone calls

Much of what happened on the plane has been reconstructed from the many phone calls made by passengers and crew, mainly through cellular phones, although doubts have been raised about whether in-flight calls using cellular phones were technically possible in 2001. Ten passengers and two crew members made calls after the hijacking began. This was in marked contrast to the other three planes, where few phone calls were made. It has thus been possible to assemble a detailed yet incomplete picture of what happened on board through these calls.
All said that there were three rather than four hijackers. This has been interpreted as meaning that one of them (probably Jarrah, who was seated in the front row (seat 1B) and who is accepted as being the pilot) entered the cockpit right away and did not reemerge. He was thus not seen by the others on the plane.
In the passenger area, three hijackers wearing red bandannas herded most of the passengers and crew to the back of the plane. Two were armed with knives and the third held a box that supposedly contained a bomb. The remaining passengers were kept in the first class area. One male passenger was stabbed, probably before the herding started. This person was never named or described in the phone calls, but is believed by authorities to be Mark Rothenberg, the only first-class passenger who did not make a phone call. A flight attendant was held in the cockpit and may have been stabbed and killed - she was most likely the purser, Debra Welsh. It has been speculated by some that she attempted to perform CPR on either Mark Rothenberg or one of the pilots and refused to stop when the hijackers ordered her to.
The passengers and crew became aware through the phone calls of what had happened to Flights 11, 175 and 77.

He described the death of the male passenger, asked about the other planes and stated at the end of the fourth call: "Don't worry. We're going to do something."

The flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder were recovered on the afternoon of September 13, buried 25 feet deep at the impact site, and have yielded additional information about the final half hour of the flight. In April 2002, in an unprecedented action, the cockpit voice recorder was played by the FBI to relatives of the victims of the hijackings. Further details were released by the 9/11 Commission in July 2004.
The transcripts of the cockpit voice recorder [1] were made public as part of the trial of Zacharias Moussaoui, but the actual recording is unreleased. A woman can be heard pleading for her life at the start of the tape. This is thought to have been a flight attendant.
The tape was reported to have contained voices saying "Allahu Akbar," English shouts that included "Let's get them!" and "In the cockpit. If we don't, we'll die" then screaming and other sounds followed by silence. Sounds of crockery smashing have led to the conclusion that a service trolley was used as a battering-ram to force the cockpit door open. The tape also debunks speculation about First Officer LeRoy W. Homer Jr. being injured when the hijackers can be heard saying, "Inform them, and tell him to talk to the pilot. Bring the pilot back." indicating that they were having difficulty controlling the plane and needed the assistance of LeRoy Homer.
The hijackers themselves appear to have all retreated into the cockpit prior to the charge, and they can be heard praying, reassuring themselves, and discussing on separate occasions, in Arabic, whether to use a fire axe in the cockpit on those outside or to cut off the oxygen to quell the charge. Jarrah said "Is that it? Shall we finish it off?" Another hijacker replied "No. Not yet. When they all come, we finish it off." Jarrah later said "Is that it? I mean, shall we put it down?" to which another hijacker replied "Yes, put it in it, and pull it down." then later "Pull it down! Pull it down!"
The 9/11 Commission found from the recordings that, contrary to what many have believed, the passengers did not succeed in entering the cockpit before the plane started its dive. It is more likely that they broke in after it was far too late and the plane was descending vertically at nearly 600 MPH. The 9/11 Commission ruled that the actions of the crew and passengers prevented the destruction of the Capitol building or the White House by causing the hijackers to abort the attack on their intended target.
While sifting through the wreckage, investigators reported finding a serrated belt-clip knife [2], as well a cigarette lighter with a concealed blade. [3]

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

god

 

[FlameHead]

Thirsty for information? Check these sites out.

http://www.physics911.net/
http://letsroll911.org/
http://www.911sharethetruth.com/
http://www.911truth.org/
http://www.reopen911.org/
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/
http://www.ny911truth.org/index.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/
http://911review.com/
http://www.911truthseekers.org
http://www.911truthmovement.org/
http://www.911blogger.com/

And some of many videos:

http://www.vidilife.com/index.cfm?f...92C-5&vchrJoinMedia=3C3B75AB-29EF-40D8-992C-5 - 911: Road to Tyranny

http://fpidocument.blogspot.com/2005/12/call-911.html - CAll 911

http://www.freepressinternational.com/CBC911.html - CBC on 9/11

http://www.freepressinternational.com/911-great-conspiracy-video.html - The Great Conspiracy

http://freepressinternational.com/pentagonstrike.html - Questioning the Pentagon Strike

http://www.freepressinternational.com/loose-change-911-video.html - Loose Change

In fact, just go to the following site. It has plenty available.

http://www.freepressinternational.com/911.html

 

[Carter]

I've already explained my reasonings behind that. No significant wreckage and definatly not comparable to past flight crashes. Insufficient damage was caused to the building. Damage that would have been caused by such a large jet. The fact that it was quickley covered up and evidence removed without investigation. The fact the will not release the videos that captured the entire event. All these things tell me that it was not a 757.

Those things don't tell me anything.
That's speculation based upon more speculation

All of the facts and evidence point towards a 747

 

[ShadowBoxing]

And SB didn't even post half of the pictures of wreckage
For starters, a lot of the airplane wreckage was inside of the Pentagon and not on the lawn where you're looking
http://images.google.com/images?hs=Ga0&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial_s&q=pentagon%20wreckage&btnG=Search&percentage_served=*:100&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Actually I didn't because in the last thread where we had this argument I posted four or five posts worth of eyewitness accounts, forensic evidence, and alike...apparently no one wanted to argue after that and the thread drifted into obscurity....I just would've felt funny posting the same old stuff over and over again...however the posts are hotlinked a few pages back.

 

[Carter]

Thirsty for information? Check these sites out.

http://www.physics911.net/
http://letsroll911.org/
http://www.911sharethetruth.com/
http://www.911truth.org/
http://www.reopen911.org/
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/
http://www.ny911truth.org/index.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/
http://911review.com/
http://www.911truthseekers.org
http://www.911truthmovement.org/
http://www.911blogger.com/

And some of many videos:

http://www.vidilife.com/index.cfm?f=media.play&vchrMediaProgramIDCryp=3C3B75AB-29EF-40D8-992C-5&vchrJoinMedia=3C3B75AB-29EF-40D8-992C-5 - 911: Road to Tyranny

http://fpidocument.blogspot.com/2005/12/call-911.html - CAll 911

http://www.freepressinternational.com/CBC911.html - CBC on 9/11

http://www.freepressinternational.com/911-great-conspiracy-video.html - The Great Conspiracy

http://freepressinternational.com/pentagonstrike.html - Questioning the Pentagon Strike

http://www.freepressinternational.com/loose-change-911-video.html - Loose Change

In fact, just go to the following site. It has plenty available.

http://www.freepressinternational.com/911.html

I don't have the time right now for all of those sites, but I've proved just about everything in Loose Change to be false.
And that video seems to be highly regarded around here.

Search for the Loose Change thread it's not that old

 

[Carter]

Actually I didn't because in the last thread where we had this argument I posted four or five posts worth of eyewitness accounts, forensic evidence, and alike...apparently no one wanted to argue after that and the thread drifted into obscurity....I just would've felt funny posting the same old stuff over and over again...however the posts are hotlinked a few pages back.

Yeah, Im not re-posting facts either

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I don't have the time right now for all of those sites, but I've proved just about everything in Loose Change to be false.
And that video seems to be highly regarded around here.

Search for the Loose Change thread it's not that old

Funny story about Loose Change. The guy who made it, whose name escapes me, met James Gandalfini a year before. James told him "to make it big as a film maker he had to make a film that would change the world". So he started by writing a fictionalized account of he and his friends uncovering a 911 conspiracy...about a month later he decided it should be a documentary

whose got more reason to lie my butt.

 

[Carter]

Here it is
http://superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226543

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Here it is
http://superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226543

Boy this place gets quiet when evidence and facts start appearing

 

[Carter]

Yeah, as usual

 

[FlameHead]

Oh, I'm still here. The problem I'm having is that your facts are facts told to you by officials. My facts are facts that are easily deduced by watching the freakin' footage.

Again, I can't change what you want to believe. Nobdy can but, you've yet to give me any proof that disproves the things I'm saying. Nothing. The wreckage spoke about and pictured does not match a 757 and regardless, it still doesn't explain why it was all taken away before an investigation was put in place. It still doesn't explain why the videos that captured the entire event have not been released.

Furthermore, physics, science, things that we've come to accept as irrefutable says that it's impossible for these events to have happened the way they say it did. Math tells us that the damage caused in the pentagon does not equal a 757 slamming into it. Phsyics tells us that a steel frame building cannot fall by just having a fire in some of the floors... let alone 3 of them. Common sense tells us that more wreckage would have been found in pennsylvania.

And again, regardless of what you believe, there are a thousands unanswered questions and with unanswered quesitons comes a coverup. A coverup leads to a person being guilty.

 

[Carter]

read the thread I posted
It explains everything.

If you have any other questions I will respond to them after I have confirmed that I haven't already addressed them in the thread I just posted.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

read the thread I posted
It explains everything.

If you have any other questions I will respond to them after I have confirmed that I haven't already addressed them in the thread I just posted.

Funny story a lot of those pictures and stories I posted did not support the official story on their websites, in fact the commission report doesn't even support the story you here on the news...furthermore most of those evidence come from science journals, independent media, etc....some don't even have to do with the 911 incidents at all. Unlike your laundry list of sites which are ALL CONSPIRACY SITES, mine have little or no correlation and fequently don't agree with eachother.

 

[FlameHead]

The commision repot. That's funny.

I posted those sites because people are refusing to look at the raw footage availble. All you have to do is watch the videos, look at the pictures and you should be able to come to the same conclusions yourself.

 

[Carter]

...what did i do?

 

[ShadowBoxing]

The commision repot. That's funny.

I posted those sites because people are refusing to look at the raw footage availble. All you have to do is watch the videos, look at the pictures and you should be able to come to the same conclusions yourself.

I just posted the footage and the pictures and the reports and the eyewitness testimony and the forensics evidence and the scienctific evidence and the articles and the transcripts and the phonecalls.

Have you even read the commission report??

 

[FlameHead]

Just read the list of professionals listed on this site, who are contributing.

http://www.physics911.net/spine.htm

Pretty smart people I think. Now, read the article found on the following site. There is irrifutable evidence that a 757 did not hit the Petagon. Scientific proof: http://www.physics911.net/omholt.htm

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Just read the list of professionals listed on this site, who are contributing.

http://www.physics911.net/spine.htm

Pretty smart people I think. Now, read the article found on the following site. There is irrifutable evidence that a 757 did not hit the Petagon. Scientific proof: http://www.physics911.net/omholt.htm

Being that the site is devouted to "how to fake a terrorist attack" and why its "impossible" it seems they already have made up their minds well before studying anything.

 

[FlameHead]

I just posted the footage and the pictures and the reports and the eyewitness testimony and the forensics evidence and the scienctific evidence and the articles and the transcripts and the phonecalls.

Have you even read the commission report??

Yes, I have... not that it matters. A lot of the information provided has been already proved false.

 

[Carter]

While I didnt read the whole thing
The engine discrepancy is false

Rolls Royce is one of a couple companies that manufacture 757 engines
Funny how that was left out

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Yes, I have... not that it matters. A lot of the information provided has been already proved false.

Really whats in it?

 

[FlameHead]

Being that the site is devouted to "how to fake a terrorist attack" it seems they already have made up their minds well before studying anything.

If you're not willing to read the information I'm providing, then this conversation is pointless.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

While I didnt read the whole thing
The engine discrepancy is false

Rolls Royce is one of a couple companies that manufacture 757 engines
Funny how that was left out

The other company that makes them successfully I.D. the part as theirs...the photo detailing this is a few pages back and is hyperlinked.

 

[FlameHead]

Really whats in it?

A series of observations (which reads like a bood) all pointing to Bin Laden causing the attacks the way they say it did.

What's funny is that in the report, it doesn't explain building 7's collapse. It also falsly reports that the core of each building consisted of "a hollow steel shaft" whereas in reality the core of each consisted of 47 massive steel columns. It also fails to report why the collapse of the WTC's saw 10 standard features of controlled demolions.

These are only a few examples...