Fox vs. Sony - who is worse?

[ripse]

ghost rider 2 spirits vengeance & amazing spiderman 2 is bad sony moviesand elektra is bad fox movies

 

[Decepticonus]

Yeah Ghost Rider sucked, though I enjoyed the badness of 2. I guess these get "discounted" because they were so off the radar, hell they still are.

 

[lordofthenerds]

I actually kind of liked the first TASM. Both Ghost Rider movies are obviously dog****.

If I had to do a track record for their Marvel movies...
Fox: 7/12 (58%) bad
Sony: 4/7 (57%) bad
So, with their latest Fantastic Four butchering, Fox is worse. Plus, Sony actually made a deal with Marvel on Spidey which makes them look better.

 

[Mjölnir]

I actually kind of liked the first TASM. Both Ghost Rider movies are obviously dog****.

If I had to do a track record for their Marvel movies...
Fox: 7/12 (58%) bad
Sony: 4/7 (57%) bad
So, with their latest Fantastic Four butchering, Fox is worse. Plus, Sony actually made a deal with Marvel on Spidey which makes them look better.

I agree that the first TASM is good and it got a good reception so in a general argument it's downright silly to put that among the failures.

Both Sony and Fox seem to take good steps though. Sony is partnering with Marvel Studios, which is the studio I think has been the best at portraying heroes on screen. It increases the chances of Spider-Man being good, and it also increases his relevance when he's in the MCU.

Fox is imo showing their best foot with Deadpool. That looks like it could be their best effort at bringing something that's close to the comcis and still works very well for the movie medium. I'm not saying that it will be their best superhero movie but it's a good sign if they dare to take the risk to really embrace the source material. I think Apocalypse will be good as well, but there I at least have some reservations as Apocalypse himself has not convinced me in what I've seen this far , and while I do think DoFP was a good movie it did have some logic issues in it's script, so that's why I don't feel that the X-Men franchise looks quite as flawless as what I've seen from Deadpool this far (although I've of course seen less of Deadpool than the X franchise).

All in all I'm happy with Sony taking Spidey to Marvel, I'm happy with Fox keeping X-Men (their struggle actually works better without other superheroes around), but I'd definitely like Fox to lose the rights to FF back to Marvel. Three disasters can't be excused and I'd like to see it's villains challenge the MCU heroes.

 

[Flint Marko]

You must have missed those two Ghost Rider movies and The Amazing Spider-Man 2 then.

As bad as ASM 2 is, it doesn't touch Elektra, XMO, DD, or the three FF movies.
I can't speak on Ghost Rider as I haven't seen any of those in a while, but neither of those offended me in the way the movies I just named from Fox's filmography has.

It makes great business sense. But creatively, yes, it is an admission of incompetence. They cannot make good Spider-Man movies, so they are literally ceding major creative control and an unknown amount of stake in the film's grosses to Disney. For fans, it's great. And I believe (and really hope) Marvel will make great Spidey movies. But only because Sony has failed to do that for over a decade. That speaks volumes.

From what I understand, Marvel gets none of Sonys box office.
That being said, the question I proposed is which studio has mismanaged their properties more. Sony producing 7 films and outright failing with 4 of them certainly isn't good, but at least they had the sense to know when the ship is sinking. Not only that, but they know fans wanted to see Spider-man in the MCU. I can't say that's mishandling the property since it is objectively the best decision both from a business and creative perspective.
Fox, however, has screwed up more total franchises with worse results IMO. Mayhe I'm biased because of the recent FF debacle since that is the absolute king of mismanaging a property, but I think Fox's failures outshine Sonys nearly every time. This is all my opinion of course, and I'll admit to being a biased FF fan to an extent, but it's how I feel.

 

[Blind_Lawyer]

Raimi's Spider-Man movies are awesome. So are a good portion of the X-Men movies. And though nixed by Fox, the director's cut of Daredevil is legit. Thor was boring, the first Captain America just plain sucked, and Ang Lee's Hulk trumped Marvel's Incredible Hulk.

The point is, all these studios have had hits and misses. I don't understand why some people think Marvel studios is the end-all-be-all to filmmaking while Sony and Fox are these redheaded stepchildren of the industry who can't get anything right.

I've heard of being a Marvel fanboy, but a Marvel Studios fanboy? That's just silly.

 

[Flint Marko]

Raimi's Spider-Man movies are awesome. So are a good portion of the X-Men movies. And though nixed by Fox, the director's cut of Daredevil is legit. Thor was boring, the first Captain America just plain sucked, and Any Lee's Hulk trumped Marvel's Incredible Hulk.

The point is, all these studios have had hits and misses. I don't understand why some people think Marvel studios is the end-all-be-all to filmmaking while Sony and Fox are these redheaded stepchildren of the industry who can't get anything right.

I've heard of being a Marvel fanboy, but a Marvel Studios fanboy? That's just silly.

Marvel has never had a critical or financial failure, while both Sony and Fox have had several. I'm admittedly a big Marvel studios fan because their track record is far more consistent. They've clearly earned enough goodwill with general audiences to make a talking raccoon and a guy who rides ants into box office stars, so it doesn't seem so crazy to think that there are those of us in the fan community who are more partial to their movies.
Do I think they are perfect? Not at all, they've had their fair share of mistakes. But they're clearly doing a great job with their films so far.

 

[DACrowe]

Raimi's Spider-Man movies are awesome. So are a good portion of the X-Men movies. And though nixed by Fox, the director's cut of Daredevil is legit. Thor was boring, the first Captain America just plain sucked, and Ang Lee's Hulk trumped Marvel's Incredible Hulk.

The point is, all these studios have had hits and misses. I don't understand why some people think Marvel studios is the end-all-be-all to filmmaking while Sony and Fox are these redheaded stepchildren of the industry who can't get anything right.

I've heard of being a Marvel fanboy, but a Marvel Studios fanboy? That's just silly.

Strangely, the fan community is convinced that Marvel Studios is the only one that "counts." Even though they have not made a movie as good as Spider-Man 2...or even X-Men: First Class (in my opinion), never mind The Dark Knight, Batman Begins or Superman: The Movie.

But yes, there is a huge portion of Marvel fans that think everything else is inferior simply because it wasn't made by Marvel Studios.

...with that said, Marvel Studios has far more consistency than the other studios. It does not hit the highs of The Dark Knight and Spider-Man 2, but it also avoids the lows of Batman & Robin and The Amazing Spider-Man 2. They are consistently average. For many fans though that is more than enough, because you know you will not get one outright awful movie.

 

[Flint Marko]

I certainly disagree that their movies are consistently average, but we do agree on my main point that they are consistent. Which is pretty admirable considering the wealth of content they've produced since 2008.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Raimi's Spider-Man movies are awesome. So are a good portion of the X-Men movies. And though nixed by Fox, the director's cut of Daredevil is legit, and Ang Lee's Hulk trumped Marvel's Incredible Hulk.

The point is, all these studios have had hits and misses. I don't understand why some people think Marvel studios is the end-all-be-all to filmmaking while Sony and Fox are these redheaded stepchildren of the industry who can't get anything right.

I've heard of being a Marvel fanboy, but a Marvel Studios fanboy? That's just silly.

*Inserts slow clap gif*

Strangely, the fan community is convinced that Marvel Studios is the only one that "counts."

I think it's because of the constant output and hype. There's barely a day where there isn't news or announcements. Also brand-loyalty, the way some people who buy Apple can't just enjoy Apple but have to go online and denigrate Android fans and the reverse.

But yes, there is a huge portion of Marvel fans that think everything else is inferior simply because it wasn't made by Marvel Studios.

Sad to see such inherent bias. Some even try to claim "Marvel Movie" means only Marvel Studios and others aren't Marvel movies

Its amusing though when they rage about something being in-accurate in a Fox/Marvel or Sony/Marvel movie even (if it's actually accurate) and then lavish praise on something Marvel Studios does thats in-accurate.

...with that said, Marvel Studios has far more consistency than the other studios. It does not hit the highs of The Dark Knight and Spider-Man 2, but it also avoids the lows of Batman & Robin and The Amazing Spider-Man 2. They are consistently average. For many fans though that is more than enough, because you know you will not get one outright awful movie.

Thats a fair assessement. They've approched the highs and lows imo but haven't neared the low lows of Steel or Elektra

Fox has never gotten FF right. So they're 0-3. Then they have Wolverine Origins and X-Men: The Last Stand. That's 5 stinkers. Not including Elektra.

Sony has Spider-Man 3 and TASM2?

I know I voted Sony because of Fox's success with the Wolverine, FC and DOFP, but on my list of the worst CBM ever. Fox has more than a few in that bottom list.

Sony has the two Ghost Riders too.

Sure past mistakes can neither be erased nor they should and their more recent one doesn't help their case but if anyone seriously thinks that we're talking about the same Fox overall as the one before Rothman left then they're seriously blindfolded.

Agreed. To use past errors as indicitive of current quality is blind and ridiculous. Their last 3 out of 4 have been recieved well, Fact.

 

[Mjölnir]

Strangely, the fan community is convinced that Marvel Studios is the only one that "counts." Even though they have not made a movie as good as Spider-Man 2...or even X-Men: First Class (in my opinion), never mind The Dark Knight, Batman Begins or Superman: The Movie.

But yes, there is a huge portion of Marvel fans that think everything else is inferior simply because it wasn't made by Marvel Studios.

...with that said, Marvel Studios has far more consistency than the other studios. It does not hit the highs of The Dark Knight and Spider-Man 2, but it also avoids the lows of Batman & Robin and The Amazing Spider-Man 2. They are consistently average. For many fans though that is more than enough, because you know you will not get one outright awful movie.

Or it just what you touch on in your first paragraph; opinion.

I don't get why some people need to deal with differing opinions by explaining how those that differ don't actually think the movies they like are better but have some other reasons for it. Just learn how to deal with that some have different opinions and you'll probably see that it's as easy that some (quite a few actually) don't think that The Dark Knight or Spider-Man 2 are the best comic book movies. I don't, for example.


It's quite funny to see the poster above me talk about being a fanboy and bias, after going into the "Phase 3 anticipation ranking" and listing Fox movies ahead of the MCU movies. Glass houses and all that, but I guess those that most often start to try to explain other opinions away are the most biased ones.

 

[The Joker]

I voted for Sony because they have more misses than hits with the Spider-Man franchise (Raimi's first two Spider-Man movies are their only triumphs there), and they did the awful Ghost Rider movies, too. Fox have more hits than misses with X-Men, and as weak as the FF movies are, I'd take them over Ghost Rider and TASM movies any day.

Raimi's Spider-Man movies are awesome. So are a good portion of the X-Men movies. And though nixed by Fox, the director's cut of Daredevil is legit. Thor was boring, the first Captain America just plain sucked, and Ang Lee's Hulk trumped Marvel's Incredible Hulk.

The point is, all these studios have had hits and misses. I don't understand why some people think Marvel studios is the end-all-be-all to filmmaking while Sony and Fox are these redheaded stepchildren of the industry who can't get anything right.

I've heard of being a Marvel fanboy, but a Marvel Studios fanboy? That's just silly.

Just learn how to deal with that some have different opinions

How is he not dealing with different opinions? What he said is true. There are fans who believe Marvel's movies are the only ones which count. It's not a fabrication. We've all seen it. He's not saying his opinion on movie quality is law, which is why he expresses his tastes as opinion.

and you'll probably see that it's as easy that some (quite a few actually) don't think that The Dark Knight or Spider-Man 2 are the best comic book movies. I don't, for example

They and you are a minority on that score. The majority rules on that one, Kevin Fiege included among them who holds both of those up as some of the best in the genre.

 

[Mjölnir]

How is he not dealing with different opinions? What he said is true. There are fans who believe Marvel's movies are the only ones which count. It's not a fabrication. We've all seen it. He's not saying his opinion on movie quality is law, which is why he expresses his tastes as opinion.



They and you are a minority on that score. The majority rules on that one, Kevin Fiege included among them who holds both of those up as some of the best in the genre.

He said he refers to a huge portion of the Marvel fans so I see no other way than to interpret it as I did. I have not seen anything even remotely close to that a huge part of the Marvel fans discredit movies based on studio rather than how they enjoyed the movies. Quite the contrary I see the popular X-Men movies, and Spidey movies, be popular with Marvel fans in general. I regularly see people trying to explain away other people's opinions when they don't align with their own though.

They are among the best for me too, but I said that I don't think they are the best. I am in a minority in that I think Batman Begins is the best Batman movie though.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I wouldn't say Marvel is consistently average. Their best movies (Iron Man, Avengers, Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy) are pretty damn great.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

It's quite funny to see the poster above me talk about being a fanboy and bias, after going into the "Phase 3 anticipation ranking" and listing Fox movies ahead of the MCU movies. Glass houses and all that, but I guess those that most often start to try to explain other opinions away are the most biased ones.

I didn't bash Phase 3 or fail to list Phase 3 I just chose not to limit the ranking of anticipation to only Marvel studios films, however I then realised that since they're all in-universe and part of the same continuity it's fair to list them alone so I edited my post to just phase 3 and started a fair and unbiased thread of anticipation of all upcoming Marvel movies that doesn't exclude any.

Interesting that you stated "listing Fox movies ahead of the MCU movies" Instead of "listing Fox movies". Incidently I had a mix of Fox and Sony and Marvel Studios in the top 10.

If you want an example of a actual bias fanboy. Look down the page of this section for the only locked thread

 

[Fosterson]

I wouldn't say Marvel is consistently average. Their best movies (Iron Man, Avengers, Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy) are pretty damn great.

Well said.

 

[Flint Marko]

I wouldn't say Marvel is consistently average. Their best movies (Iron Man, Avengers, Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy) are pretty damn great.

They're without a doubt some of the best in the genre, right next to Spider-man 2, X-men 2, and TDK.

Its amusing though when they rage about something being in-accurate in a Fox/Marvel or Sony/Marvel movie even (if it's actually accurate) and then lavish praise on something Marvel Studios does thats in-accurate.

It amuses me to no end every time you post this. Fox-Marvel's creative liberties are far more frequent and drastic than any seen in the MCU, but these facts are pushed aside whenever you want to pretend that Marvel and them are on the same playing field.

 

[Mjölnir]

I didn't bash Phase 3 or fail to list Phase 3 I just chose not to limit the ranking of anticipation to only Marvel studios films, however I then realised that since they're all in-universe and part of the same continuity it's fair to list them alone so I edited my post to just phase 3 and started a fair and unbiased thread of anticipation of all upcoming Marvel movies that doesn't exclude any.

Interesting that you stated "listing Fox movies ahead of the MCU movies" Instead of "listing Fox movies". Incidently I had a mix of Fox and Sony and Marvel Studios in the top 10.

If you want an example of a actual bias fanboy. Look down the page of this section for the only locked thread

When I read it, and some reactions, I figured it to be a very deliberate statement, which was further triggered by how I read your post in this thread. If that wasn't the intention then I was wrong.

As for Sony, their Spider-Man is now part of the MCU, and that was what I wrote, not Marvel Studios.

 

[DACrowe]

He said he refers to a huge portion of the Marvel fans so I see no other way than to interpret it as I did. I have not seen anything even remotely close to that a huge part of the Marvel fans discredit movies based on studio rather than how they enjoyed the movies. Quite the contrary I see the popular X-Men movies, and Spidey movies, be popular with Marvel fans in general. I regularly see people trying to explain away other people's opinions when they don't align with their own though.

They are among the best for me too, but I said that I don't think they are the best. I am in a minority in that I think Batman Begins is the best Batman movie though.

I think threads like this exist solely because of the inference of "they are both bad." How many times do you see posts about how Fox should just give the rights of X-Men back to Marvel? How it is a sign of quality on Sony's part that they gave up trying to make their own films and are letting Marvel Studios do them?

Yes, I do think a large portion of the fan community just thinks Marvel Studios' movies count for more. Which to me is a funny concept. I even have had discussions as to how being a Marvel fan that I could possibly like the "Faux Marvel movies" in this very forum.

I wouldn't say Marvel is consistently average. Their best movies (Iron Man, Avengers, Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy) are pretty damn great.

To me only The Avengers and Guardians are pretty great. But I do think the majority of their films fall more into a familiar formula and pattern of being inoffensively entertaining and disposable--The Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2, Thor, Captain America: The First Avenger, Iron Man 3, Thor: The Dark World, Avengers: Age of Ultron, Ant-Man.

None of those 8 movies are truly bad IMO (though Thor 2 comes close). But none are anything special either. But at 8/12 films, that is 75% of their output having a safely deducted familiarity.

If Thor 2 is the worst of their system, then I see the appeal as opposed to fans worrying about getting another Fantastic Four or The Amazing Spider-Man 2. But there is a relative lack of ambition in Marvel movies that I do think is pretty fair to notice.

 

[Flint Marko]

How many times do you see posts about how Fox should just give the rights of X-Men back to Marvel?

Hardly ever? That isn't a sentiment shared by many, at least around here.

 

[TeeKay]

Let's put things in perspective here. Fox has done some terrible films in the past and the new FF seems to be their crown jewel but they're in a really good row with the X-Men movies. FC and DOFP were both fantastic, better than any MCU film for my taste, Deadpool looks amazing and I have high hopes for Apocalypse as well. Even the second Wolverine which was more of an ok movie was significantly better than the first one and I'm pretty sure the third one is going to be even better.

Sony on the other hand has more recent flops and not enough great movies to balance it out even though I personally like the first Amazing Spider-Man. But I'd say the worst Fox movies are definitely worse than the worst Sony ones. If we look at their current state though, Fox is definitely in a better place right now even with the atrocious 4 on the table.

Sure past mistakes can neither be erased nor they should and their more recent one doesn't help their case but if anyone seriously thinks that we're talking about the same Fox overall as the one before Rothman left then they're seriously blindfolded.

Bleh. Hahahah Have you seen the new FF Film? That destroys your argument entirely. That film was such a Rothman era type bad cbm. Lawd have mercy. How do you **** up a franchise 3 times in a row? I had avoided watching that film entirely but gave in and watched it by other means. I had to see it. With the way the film was ripped to shreds by critics and fans,I had to.

I have no idea what i saw. The film literally failed at the simplest fundamentals of storytelling. I mean Jesus Christ. They werent even trying. I didnt get to finish the film to the end and I think Ultron here will best describe my reaction after I watched the film..

 

[Flint Marko]

Bleh. Hahahah Have you seen the new FF Film? That destroys your argument entirely. That film was such a Rothman era type bad cbm. Lawd have mercy. How do you **** up a franchise 3 times in a row? I had avoided watching that film entirely but gave in and watched it by other means. I had to see it. With the way the film was ripped to shreds by critics and fans,I had to.

I have no idea what i saw. The film literally failed at the simplest fundamentals of storytelling. I mean Jesus Christ. They werent even trying. I didnt get to finish the film the end and I think Ultron here will best describe my reaction after I watched the film..

If you didn't finish the movie and get to the end, than you didn't get to see where it all really went off the rails.
People have said for years now that Fox has changed and that they are completely different than how they once were, but the film just released in theaters is easily one of, if not the, worst movie they've ever made, riddled with the problems that sunk their previous franchises. And yet we're not supposed to address this because Bryan Singer is still making great films with the X-men.
John Campea said a few days ago that he's heard from numerous sources that Fox is notorious, even to this day, about micro-managing and screwing up their properties during production more-so than most other studios. The direct quote he got from one of them, when asked if Fox has a history of making mandates that damage films, was "you have no idea".

 

[Mjölnir]

I think threads like this exist solely because of the inference of "they are both bad." How many times do you see posts about how Fox should just give the rights of X-Men back to Marvel? How it is a sign of quality on Sony's part that they gave up trying to make their own films and are letting Marvel Studios do them?

Yes, I do think a large portion of the fan community just thinks Marvel Studios' movies count for more. Which to me is a funny concept. I even have had discussions as to how being a Marvel fan that I could possibly like the "Faux Marvel movies" in this very forum.

I don't see many posts about that Fox should give up the X-Men rights at all. I'd even call it downright rare with the amount of people I see posting their opinions. I see lots of praise for the X-Men franchise though, with the exception for the movies that are generally panned. If a huge part of the Marvel fanbase had that opinion I'd expect to see posts about it all the time.

I also tend to remember when reading negative things about Fox and the X-Men as I in those cases like to add my own opinion that the X-Men actually work better on their own than in a shared universe, due to that the struggle between humans and mutants is much more focused without a ton of other guys running around with similar powers, just gotten in other ways.

However, I do think that the FF rights are wasted with Fox, but that's based mainly on track record, which is hard to say that it isn't the worst of any single franchise with multiple movies.

 

[OcStat]

This is a tough question...funny how it expanded to include Marvel and DC in some posts.

Sony's best, Spider-Man 2, is better than anything at Fox. Both have delivered some incredibly poor films, but it seems Fantastic Four '15 is the new worst of the worst. I haven't seen it to say for myself. I also haven't seen Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance.

So taking that into account, I'd say:

The Best:
Spider-Man 2
X2: X-Men United

The Rest of the Best:
X-Men: Days of Future Past
Spider-Man
The Wolverine
X-Men
The Amazing Spider-Man

The Rest:
X-Men: First Class
Spider-Man 3
X-Men: The Last Stand
Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer
Daredevil
Fantastic Four
The Amazing Spider-Man 2
Ghost Rider
X-Men Origins: Wolverine
Elektra

Sony is still at it, so we'll see where they go from here. Fox is knee-deep in finally showing more sides of the X-Men, but after the rebound of the X-Men franchise; FF shows that they still can drop the ball, hard.

I think I'd say Fox is worse.

 

[bubbadoom]

When Tom Rothman was at Fox I would have said Fox, but now that he's at Sony...